Going Turbo, few questions. [Archive] - ElantraXD.com - Dedicated to the true Elantra Enthusiast

yamaha

10-13-2005, 01:15 PM

Alright guys, just to keep you updated I am in the process of putting in the order for everything listed below:

304L Stainless Steel Log Style Manifold
2.5" Down pipe
2.5" Intake piping
K&N Injen Air filter
Fast-Turbo SS Oil feed line and Press Fit Oil return line and fittings
2.5" Charge pipes (Mild Steel, painted Black)
FMU(Beta1)
3 ply Silicone Couplers w/ Clamps

Tim is excellent at answering questions in a prompt manner and is very knowledgeable about his kits. I got this kit shipped for a ver reasonable price. A friend has a Garett T3 60 with 60 trim wheel for a price I couldnt pass up. Ill let you guys know about the install and how it goes.

KeWLKaT

10-13-2005, 02:13 PM

my downpipe is solid. the flex should be just about anywhere before the high flow cat (if you're putting one)

yamaha

10-13-2005, 02:20 PM

Let me revise my question. Can I use a solid piece of piping without flexpipe or do I need to have the flexpiping on the exhaust as well.

KeWLKaT

10-13-2005, 02:24 PM

Well without the flex your exhaust will be vibrating like madness and your pipes have a chance of cracking easily. That's what a flex is for... Why don't you want to put one on anyways?

yamaha

10-13-2005, 02:36 PM

Well, Im getting a custom made manfiold and I have to find someone else to make the downpipe with the flexpipe on it for me. Guess its time to shoot time a PM.

KeWLKaT

10-13-2005, 02:41 PM

thing is...

you are using the smaller t25 turbos... That one is the stock one on turbo DSMs no? I've seen betas use the OEM mitsu DP for their setup.. you could try that.

yamaha

10-13-2005, 02:54 PM

Thanks for the info KewlKat. Ill check into that.

Sean

Mahonroy

10-13-2005, 07:20 PM

Usually the flexpipe is part of the exhaust, not the downpipe (I know the downpipe is part of the exhaust 2, but....)
Normally you got your exhaust manifold, you got your turbo bolted up to that, then you have a downpipe which consists of 2x flanges, one that bolts to the turbo, and the other flang goes underneith the car somewhere. Then you have your flexpipe bolt up to the downpipe flange, then you have the otherside of the flexpipe get connected to a cat converter, then so on... I personally don't have a flexpipe on my exhaust system, mostly because I didn't know...but so far I don't regret it, car idles good, car doesn't shake, I'm happy...btw, whats the downside of using a flex pipe? Lost performance?

cbehage

10-14-2005, 02:00 AM

YES!!!

Where are you going to get it done?

Get it done so we can race bro.

IM me some time

eLantrabumb

10-14-2005, 02:12 AM

i wish i was cool like you and was going turbo. iv'e seen bolt on flex pipe for custom catbacks in superstreet advertisements and stuff. they are like 6 inch long sections that look like a catalytic converter but are just flexpipe. You should just get it done with flexpipe because like kewlkat said you might crack a pipe. and that would blow... literally. haha.

yamaha

10-14-2005, 05:25 PM

Well, Ive decided to go with Tims@Speed-Factor's entry level turbo kit, just have to put the payment in now. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

yamaha

10-17-2005, 03:32 PM

Refer to the first post. :)

dmdicks

10-18-2005, 10:48 AM

The importance of a flex pipes depends on a few factors. One is the construction of everything before the flexpipe like, downpipe, turbine housing, and Turbo manifold. A system without a flex pipe will transfer all the engine movement to the weakest exhaust component. If you downpipe isn't top notch it will crack, same holds true with the manifold.
Second factor is how much torque your engine is producing. Low boost setups will probably be ok without a flex pipe. Once your reach 200+ wheel torque numbers you have to start worrying about things breaking.
You can get solid motor mounts to help eliminate some of the exhaust flex by keeping the engine from rotating. A flex pipe is fairly cheap insurance if the quality of your components is in question.

Matt, you should be fine with the Alpine setup because everything is cast and will not break, ever.. ;)

yamaha

10-20-2005, 03:02 PM

Update-Everything is set, Im going to have a non-intercooled T28 turbo for 1060 dollars. Later I will be adding an intercooler and running 10-11psi next summerish.

KeWLKaT

10-20-2005, 03:04 PM

i HOPE you will doing internals

yamaha

10-20-2005, 03:12 PM

KeWLKaT

10-20-2005, 03:18 PM

hmmm on my setup i am not going up more than 8 psi

just a FYI: one of my acquaitances here blew the **** out of his rd tib (beta) @ 12 psi. It was a manual. Just like the song goes: tananananana BOOM, head gasket go boom, piston rod go boom, boom , boom, valve goes boom, head goes boom, engine goes boom boom boom. Yeah, there is no actual song like that :(

I dont know man, you're the one taking the risk, so you will have to assume the responsability.... But I say do it the right way, stick @ low boost and buy some wiseco pistons which will do a good job at a better price than the tigerlillys (on a side note holy crap all products those guys do are WAY overpriced).

FordFasteRR

10-20-2005, 03:19 PM

I will be, Tim told me of how he ran his turbo on stock internals at 17psi for months on an automatic and never had problems. But I tend to be skeptical and will do Tigerlily Pistons later as well. One thing you have to remember is the cams on the RD allow for much more overlap.

Explain ? Are you saying that the RD cams have more overlap than the XD and therefore the motor is more resilient to boost ?

If what you are saying is true, the differences in overlap between the XD and RD are minimal if any. From my understanding the XD cams have more lift and even more duration than the RD, so there is a possiblity of even MORE overlap...

Lastly, overlap can be easily altered by adjusting the cam centerlines.

I did this using the OBX cam sprocket to advance the intake cam ( decreasing the overap ) and I made more power and torque, not as a result of increased scavenging ) but because of increased dynamic compression via advancing the intake cam by itself.

:)

A tuner could achieve the same goal of increasing overalp ( allowing more reversion into the cylinders ) hence reducing SOME of the thermal issues associated with boosting an engine and exhaust valve temperatures, however there is a limit to how much reversion is good vs how much reversion is bad........

Please reply.

yamaha

10-20-2005, 03:21 PM

Well, Im going to start off at 5psi, and if it is enough power for me, Ill throw on an intercooler and go up to 7-8 and call it a day. Its all basically up in the air for right now until I get everything situated on the turbo and I see how I like it from there.

And about your friend with the RD Tiburon, was he running on stock internals, what exaclty blew on his motor?

KeWLKaT

10-20-2005, 03:22 PM

also someone on EC menitonned the betas having 9.5:1, so it will obviously allow a bit more boost than the beta2s, but it is questionable to say just how much more...

yamaha

10-20-2005, 03:25 PM

Explain ? Are you saying that the RD cams have more overlap than the XD and therefore the motor is more resilient to boost ?

If what you are saying is true, the differences in overlap between the XD and RD are minimal if any. From my understanding the XD cams have more lift and even more duration than the RD, so there is a possiblity of even MORE overlap...

Lastly, overlap can be easily altered by adjusting the cam centerlines.

I did this using the OBX cam sprocket to advance the intake cam ( decreasing the overap ) and I made more power and torque, not as a result of increased scavenging ) but because of increased dynamic compression via advancing the intake cam by itself.

:)

A tuner could achieve the same goal of increasing overalp ( allowing more reversion into the cylinders ) hence reducing SOME of the thermal issues associated with boosting an engine and exhaust valve temperatures, however there is a limit to how much reversion is good vs how much reversion is bad........

Please reply.

I did a search on Elantraclub.com and found some information on the overlap, and according to the thread (I'll have to dig it up) the cams on the Beta are better then the cams on the Beta 2, remember, Im also running the 1.8l cam without problems. A tuner can achieve the same goals, but is not an option as of yet since this kit was only designed to run 5-6psi. Ill have to dig up the thread and the other website I found this information on.

Perhaps CBehage can fill in some missing spots in what I'm saying, I believe he is also running 10psi on stock internals, but with a SAFCII.

KeWLKaT

10-20-2005, 03:25 PM

yes he was running on totally stock internals.

i dont know him too well, but the guy who did his setup is a good friend of mine. he had advised him that it was unsafe to run such boost, but the guy still wanted it...

Well I am guessing because of the extensive compression, the rod(s) cracked because of the added stress, thus propelly the piston, etc...

rod hits piston hits valve warps part of head, etc... I don't think I need to take a picture of it for you :)

Then again it might just be luck... I just wanted to advise you not to play with fire because I want to see a car there at the meet when i go up to ohio :)

yamaha

10-20-2005, 03:33 PM

9:5:1 compression on a stock motor seems alittle far fetched to me, I hope it would be true. The main problem I find is the lack of information on any turbo setup for the beta motor. Im going to doing some more research on the subject over the winter months before I put my turbo on. This is a daily driver so a blown engine wont be good.

FordFasteRR

10-20-2005, 03:37 PM

beta 2's have 10:1 compression stock.

There are dozens of people on the message boards ( mostly beta2 I4 tiburons ) that have turbo kits and the average user has 10+ Psi on stock internals with daily drivers & no problems.

yamaha

10-20-2005, 03:38 PM

I know well about the Beta2, but I would like to find some info on the Beta1.

FordFasteRR

10-20-2005, 03:40 PM

I know well about the Beta2, but I would like to find some info on the Beta1.

The beta1's had slightly less compression I think.

Also, over the years there has been quite a few revisions to the crank and rod journals... which explains the changes in main bearing and rod bearing part number variances...

Still.. I think the beta2 is by far the beefiest of the lot...

I wonder what Hyundai will do with it in the next few years... :)

yamaha

10-20-2005, 03:46 PM

True, I love my car to death, and replacement engines are relativly cheap, but I would trade in the RD in a moment for a 5-speed XD. And they get better gas mileage too. :)

cbehage

10-24-2005, 02:42 AM

You are on the wrong site for beta 1 info bro.

Try here http://www.rdtiburon.com/index.php?showforum=13

Lots of Turbo beta 1s there.

for beta2, Elantraxd can't be beat......

yamaha

11-12-2005, 10:39 AM

Update:

My turbo kit will be shipping out soon, Ill be glad to have it and see what everything looks like, this is the setup so far:

304L Stainless Steel Log Style Manifold
Garrett TB25 Turbine
2.5" Down pipe
2.5" Intake piping
K&N Injen Air filter
Fast-Turbo SS Oil feed line and Press Fit Oil return line and fittings
2.5" Charge pipes (Mild Steel, painted Black)
FMU
SAFC-II
HKS Boost Controller
Apexi Turbo Timer with Air/Fuel Gauge
Various Boost, Oil Pressure, Volt, and Vacuum gauges
HKS SSQ Bov
2.5 mandrel bent piping
FMIC from member of ElantraXD
Magnaflow Highflow Cat
O2 Sensor Bungs

3 ply Silicone Couplers w/ Clamps

Cypher

11-12-2005, 12:27 PM

i can't wait to see it ;)!!!!!!! now someone give me money for a turbo:p

evan938

11-12-2005, 12:47 PM

KEWLKAT- you'll be coming DOWN to ohio. canada is north of here.

say what you mean sean..."i want an XD b/c even w/ all my mods and evan having a broken speed sensor, i still lost from a dig every time" (and really i think i had you froma roll up to about 87-90mph)

Cypher

11-12-2005, 01:24 PM

its cause hes autotragic;)

yamaha

11-15-2005, 08:57 AM

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/T25001.jpg

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/T25002.jpg

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/T25003.jpg

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/T25004.jpg

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/T25005.jpg

Updated with pictures of my Log Manifold. Enjoy.

KeWLKaT

11-15-2005, 09:12 AM

HOLY HELL have I always hated that manifold design. That's like a 1.5/2.5-2-1 manifold.... Which goddamn part of that is equal length, look at the distance from the flange to either side, it's like, FAR from equal length. I thought tim would've included his new design. THAT one looks like something very nice.

yamaha

11-15-2005, 09:21 AM

Whoops, mistype, its 8:30am and I'm alittle tired, its a log style.

KeWLKaT

11-15-2005, 09:43 AM

hehe it's all good, though I still hate that manifold design :)

BTW, please, do yourself a favor, and don't stick with an safc to tune your fuel man, get a real fuel tuner/piggyback

greddy e-manage, rebic 3, smt-6/7, aem, they're all out there...

safc-2 gives you the ability to set 12 rpm points.... when you can set ALL with the other stated above. think about it. its an investment.

yamaha

11-15-2005, 09:52 AM

I have, but Im not ready to dive into that realm just yet, I have been throwing it around in my mind. The possibility of the Emanage is there, but its about 500 for everything I need, not including tuning or installation.

KeWLKaT

11-15-2005, 12:23 PM

labmixz

11-15-2005, 12:45 PM

think about it tho

e-manage for 500$

safc2 goes new for 300-400 ish

and you have the stupid ECU's we have that go against the s-afc apparently, everyone with that ends up installing something else on their setups after a while. i dont think you would want to reset your ECU every 2 days.

Do not go with a S-AFC - all it does it try to trick the ECU...

where as the gReddy e-Manage and e-Manage Ultimate actually change the pulse of the ground to the injectors... much better choice... well worth the money for the headache and hassle the S-AFC can cause (trust me, I've been there...)

KeWLKaT

11-15-2005, 12:49 PM

LOL why are you repeating exactly what i said in other words?

labmixz

11-15-2005, 12:51 PM

LOL why are you repeating exactly what i said in other words?

Cause I was eating lunch and only saw SAFC and gReddy e-Manage... didn't read anything past that ;)

lol

also my post gave information as to why the S-AFC fails to work ;)

FordFasteRR

11-15-2005, 12:53 PM

With properly sized fuel injectors, the stock ECU can compensate for boost. The way that it works is very tricky and it will lean out a little bit on the low rpm range but that is not dangerous as long as the motor does not ping...

You only need the fuel tuner to lower the injector duty cycle at low rpms... the stock ecu / map sensor will take care of the rest after idle..

:)

That is how it worked with my blower setup and I never had a problem with the fuel system.

Now, I only had 5 psi or so ... with a turbo, you will get 7 + psi easily so it might be a little tricker but again... the solution is to simply match up the right size injectors.

The sonata injectors will handle approx 190 bhp ( 175 whp SAE ) within an 80% duty cycle. ..

That is only about 5-7 psi of boost ...

If you want more power with the sonata injectors, you will need more fuel pressure.

The only way to get more fuel pressure on an XD is to upgrade the fuel pump. This will give you 1 or 2 psi rail pressure increase ( I guesstimate ) so the fuel flow increase will only support a few extra bhp so its basically useless unless you do this.

A. convert to returnless and add a RRFPR & the bigger fuel pump.
B. get a bigger set of injectors....

lol

KeWLKaT

11-15-2005, 12:53 PM

haha its all good i just wanted to make sure my post didnt sound like the opposite of what i meant :D

btw e-manage over the rebic anytime

labmixz

11-15-2005, 01:01 PM

I got a e-Manage Ultimate in my setup... still haven't decided on the injector size for the deimed output wanted from the engine - The shop has been doing the math on it, I think we are set on going to 660cc injectors... but then again my setup is a little bit... extreme... to say the least.

FordFasteRR

11-15-2005, 01:34 PM

.......... going to 660cc injectors... but then again my setup is a little bit... extreme... to say the least.

That is good for over 400 bhp easily well within 80% duty cycle !!

WHOA !!!

labmixz

11-15-2005, 02:04 PM

That is good for over 400 bhp easily well within 80% duty cycle !!

WHOA !!!

shush your mouth

and keep it shush... ;)

I said I was going for numbers not seen before ;)

I meant it...

dyno's come Jan or earlier... ~ all I'm sayin ;) If I don't hit my projected wHP goal we're slapping on a wet kit...

yamaha

11-15-2005, 02:08 PM

labmixz-what did you have to get for the greddy eManage to work.

labmixz

11-15-2005, 03:23 PM

labmixz-what did you have to get for the greddy eManage to work.

shop is doing all the work with the eManage - thats one of their specialty's -- I don't have any time to deal with my car anymore -- so the shop that I got now does everything for me... I'm too busy between work and woman. lol

so, I couldn't really tell you... I know there was something bought to hook it all up to the same _________ (something I can't remember atm) for the greddy electronic boost controller and the e-manage to hook up to the same thing and possibly even the turbo timer... I won't really pay attention to anything having to do with my car until it's done... cause I'm sick of shops screwin me over ;)

yamaha

01-04-2006, 10:37 AM

Finally got Tim to ship my kit last night, now all I need is the SMT6, wideband, and fuelpump and I'll be in business.

evan938

01-04-2006, 10:54 AM

wow. that comes out to...10 weeks to ship out a basic kit?

cant say i didnt tell you so.

like i said before. tims kits arent the problem. for the most part, its a good kit at a reasonable price. customer service (ie, contacting him) and shipping is the problem. i realize its a side job and he has a real job, but come on...10 weeks to ship out a basic kit?