clarion's turbo thread

[clarion]

dyno vid pg 16
vids on pg 10


tims kit came in and ill be posting my progress in this thread, ill be getting my dyno, hopefully this week and get a before HP,

the kit looks great the welds are awsome, def. worth the wait but the box was beat up, i dont have any gaskets or clamps :(

http://x10.putfile.com/3/8016444489-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8016444489.jpg&s=x10)
http://x10.putfile.com/3/8016413399-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8016413399.jpg&s=x10)
http://x10.putfile.com/3/8016400362-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8016400362.jpg&s=x10)

[Cypher]

it didn't come with the nessecary gaskets?? well none the less it looks like a great turbo.. what kind of t3 is that? super 60?? are you just going to run it non intercooled for now? sonata injectors right? how much was it and how long did it take to receive?

[clarion]

i think the clamps and stuff fell out during shipping, see the big gash in the box, not sure if its a super 60 , how can i tell?, im not really sure how long, i want to say about a month and a half it took to get it, its the sonota injectors, for now it will be no intercooler, my friend with a 240sx, w/sr20det redtop, will gimme her sidemount intercooler when she gets her fmic, i might end up getting a fmic later on when everything settles down

[Cypher]

awesome hurry up and install it and get all your dynos done! i wanna see the results since this is what i'll probably get when i have money... now all that stuff he sent is all you need right??? you don't need that turbo timer you installed do you?

[dmdicks]

Um, I don't think those are the sonata injectors. The Sonata injectors are 290cc and are Blue in color. Also has time figured out a fueling strategy for the kit yet? Also did Tim send new injector clips with those gray injectors? The connection looks completely different.

Here's true Sonata 290cc Injectors..

http://hyundaimotorsports.net/injectors.jpg

[clarion]

its everything but the clamps and gaskets, ill wait till tim tells me what hes gonna do about it, before i start the installation, i love that lil turbo timer, its so neat, i never been so amazed at a lil thing like that, also it took me 4 hours to install that lil thing, i had no lighting and the wires had lil slack in the harneses

[Cypher]

hasn't it been determined that with low boost and bigger injectors the stock ecu can compensate accordingly?

[clarion]

acording to tim its 290cc Injectors it dosent say sonota or have a hyundai logo on them

[dmdicks]

The OEM ECU can run the injectors but you need someway to trim out fuel for a smooth idle. I guarantee you will not pass an emissions test without some sort of fuel control device. Also those look lilke possibly Ford Motorsports injectors. The may be 290cc but the connection on the injector is 100% different when compared to the BetaII or Sonata connector. You will have to rewire your injector harness to get those injectors to work. Take a close look at your injector and the link I posted and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[clarion]

i dont have to worry about emissions in FL, you sure about the injectors?

[pjc6281]

Are you getting a reprogrammed ecu or do you have one already?

[evan938]

yeah. i have pics of my old injectors (the ones labmixz has now) at home. maybe he can post some. what he has are OEM direct replacement 400cc's. at least theyll show you how the connectors look

[mrhoaf]

I'm just down the road in Destin and would love to help if i'm not working when you install it.... :D

[KeWLKaT]

i feel like you will have some problems man

MAKE SURE your fuel delivery is well planned out and you actually have a piggyback!!!!

[Cypher]

yeah don't **** up your engine!!@! on a side note i am soooo drunk right now its not even funny lol

[clarion]

so you guys saying i need a apexi safc and im good to go?

[KeWLKaT]

0uf I would NOT recommend the SAFC

I don't know what tim told you, but if he said that ''the stock ECU will be able to adjust" or some BS like that PLEASE, PLEASE don't listen to him, or else you might screw something up in your car.

Listen. Here in montreal lives a mechanic that has turbocharged more cars and, as a matter of fact, more hyundais than Tim or even other companies out there. This theory was tested at their garage, and the car ran with the stock ECU until 3 psi. And it still ran kind-of ****ty. And that was on a beta1. The beta2 dies after the internal pressure reaches a bit more than 0 psi.

Why?

The stock ECU does NOT have the proper settings to compensate for boost, the 3 psi that works is only because of some margin error.

Plus, one BIG THING tim overlooked is this:

Our MAP sensor cannot read boost. If you take FordFasteRR for instance, he has a fuel tuner with a voltage clamp for the MAP. It makes it so after the point where the MAP stops reading boost at 0 psi, there is still a signal, the same voltage, sent out by it to the tuner so it knows to shoot more fuel.

Another thing: I made some reading on NT and it doesn't sound like any of the VVT beta2 owners (with MAP) have used Tim's services, or at least if they have, they just used his manifold/DP from him separately. All of his "real" customers mostly have beta1's. I don't know if you remember azwildfire, the guy with a XD2 that went to get his car turbo'ed by Tim at his own shop, and got into SO many problems, at a point where he took everything off of the car. (even though he had the CVVT with MAF)

Even evan938 had added a couple more things to the kit (and by that I mean a LOT) to complete it. But he made the mistake to project using the safc2, which would have caused him a lot of problems. Trust me, a lot have been there. Use a REAL piggyback. If you want I can get you a nice deal on an SMT-6 (from the guy I was talking about a little earlier that works in a performance shop).

And figure out what those injectors are! If they are low imp they will not work with the stock injector beta2 harnesses (or so I heard).

So good luck with this and give us more details as you go, but PLEASE, make some reasing, perhaps buy "Max Boost" and read that book to learn a bit more about boost and fuel.

I just want to let you know that you are getting into something way more complicated than you were projecting.


Keep us updated :)

[DAILLESTWUN]

So how far are you from Miami?

[Speed-Factor]

Ok as everyone can see I haven't been on here for awhile (been traveling) The injectors are High Imp and will work with the Hyundai. And AZwildfires car there were no problems with the CVVT on the system, he said one thing on here but there was more going on behind the scene that people were not aware of, and I will leave it at that.

And I was not the one that said the Stock ECU would control the injectors this was info that was given to me from some well known turboed Beta 2 people and they said it would work, if they want to speak up that is up to them. Remember this is a Basic Kit, and I really should have even put injectors in it and left it up to whoever buys the kit to make their own decision on fueling. As a matter of fact I think if I do continue to sell in the Hyundai Community I will do that.

[dmdicks]

It was I and actually adeihl, that originally said the OEM ECU will be able to run the engine with the 290cc injectors. The tricky part is the boost issue. The OEM map sensor is just that, a sensor. As such, most 1 Bar sensors can in fact read above atmospheric pressure. In most cases a 1 Bar sensor will send a signal up to 7 psi. The problem is the OEM ECU. In a normally aspirated cars the ECU is NOT programmed to understand any pressure above atmospheric aka Boost. What tends to happen is there is some 'margin of error' as Kewl called it where it seems the OEM ECU is adjusting for boost. In reality it isn't. What happens is at a certain signal voltage level the OEM ECU stops reading the MAP sensor and just adds fuel according to preprogrammed fuel and RPM tables. As long as other operating parameters are deemed safe by the OEM ECU the engine will continue to run. Once any other parameter exceeds the safe limit like Intake Temp, Coolant Temp, Oil Temp/Pressure the ECU will throw the car into a 'limp' mode.
Now on to the larger injector issue. The OEM ECU uses fuel and fuel trim tables that are divided into short term and long term trims. It uses the O2 reading to determine what goes into the trim tables. So say you just throw in larger injectors with no way to adjust anything. The OEM ECU will see that now you've got much more fuel going into the engine at the same MAP voltage. In order to meet emissions compliance the ECU 'trims' out pulses sent to the injectors to have less fuel flowing to get the mixture to stoich levels. There is a set amount of min and max trimming the ECU can do and the 290cc injectors fall within this realm of adjustability.
What that means is that the OEM ECU will be able to trim out enough of the 290cc injector to maintain emissions compliance on its own. Well what does this do to the boost equation? Well remember that so-called margin of error? The OEM ECU has this 'margin' built in so it doesn't freak out when it sees boost at first. But if it continues to see boost over a programmed amount of time, it can go into safety 'limp' mode where it massively retards timing and dumps fuel. Limp plus boost does not equal a happy engine.
So what happens with the larger injectors? Well remember I said that once the ECU stops reading the MAP sensor it still supplies fuel based on RPM maps? How much fuel is supplies is based on Long Term fuel trims. The wrinkle is that under WOT throttle the OEM ECU isn't using the O2 sensor to adjust fuel addition/subtraction so in effect what happens is that the OEM ECU thinks the smaller 190cc injectors are in place and sends pulses based on those injectors. Larger injectors means more fuel will flow per pulse width. Catching on so far?
The key is keeping the OEM ECU from freaking out. A low boost setup, like 4-5psi should be well within the safe margin. Any higher and you must keep the ECU from going into limp mode by having some sort of voltage clamp for the MAP sensor or some sort of more advanced piggy back computer.
So you see the answer isn't very simple and yes I did say the OEM ECU will be able to run with the 290cc injectors w/o a supplemental computer. I did also say that above 4-5psi you have to have some sort of device to clamp the MAP signal. I also did advise that before any of these 'basic' kits went into production that the appropriate amount of testing be done before any are released to the public.

nuff said.

[KeWLKaT]

nuff said.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Speed-Factor]

Yep and this is the first one so it is being tested.

[evan938]

just to chime in, i wasnt adding things left and right to my kit to 'make it work'. i was adding things because i was shooting for 250+ whp, and wanted to do it safely. if i wanted to stick w/ 180 hp, i could have saved myself a couple thousand $.

and i wasnt going to rely on a SAFC for tuning by any means. i had 400cc injectors, was planning on the REAL ECU, a 2.5 bar map sensor, AND an safc. all in all, i had about 1400+ into fuel management (injectors 325, ECU 800, map sensor 100, SAFC 240)

[KeWLKaT]

Im talking about fuel TUNING.

Im not even gonna comment the real ecu :)

basically the only thing you were using besides than non-working ripoff POS ecu was an safc2, which is VERY restrictive on tuning and might not even work properly...

[clarion]

i guess im the ginnie pig hu....im gonna talk to my turbo people and search for other opinions, i could just install the kit and drive around without going into boost and be ok right?

[KeWLKaT]

yeah man, as long as the charge pipes are connected to your TB you are ok, the trubo go just spool and shoot out air on the side of your engine...

Just MAKE SURE it gets enough oil

[Speed-Factor]

you will be fine boosting the kit is set at 5 psi and you will not blow anything, trust me I have and still the one person to run 17psi on a bone stock motor so I know what the motors will handle and what they won't and that was with the stock ECU.

Also I don't get to visit this site that much anymore so reggie please send me a e-mail with any questions and I will make sure you get the correct info that you need on anything dealing with the kit.

[KeWLKaT]

no piggyback for the 17 psi?

comon..........

[Cypher]

i'd be interested to know your whole setup tim

[clarion]

i got a change of plan ,tim hasnt sent any clamps, gaskets, or that fitting thing, he said he would but havent returned my emails after that...so ill be doing only a "after install" dyno and not a before and after dyno (about $90 for a regular dyno W/O wideband) unless i get it before my tranny cooler comes in

[clarion]

i also got an intercooler comming in and a A/f gauge too, illl take pics when they come in...i sould just wait for the intercooler too to be installed and then do a dyno

[skeetre]

You should wait until I get home so I can go with you too. :)

[yamaha]

Any pictures of the install yet?

[clarion]

i need to wait for my tranny cooler to come in, if tims stuff dont come in by then ill go ahead and buy the stuff and install it...oh i also got an oil catch can thing for the pvc line

You should wait until I get home so I can go with you too. :)

the stuff probly wont come in till you get back anyways so your in luck :D

[apkraven]

the stuff won't come , I fear, cause tim apeared to be not such a good and honest man as he seemed from the beginning)

[02xdGLS]

^ are you saying that out of YOUR experience or from what others been through??

not trying to defend tim or anything like that just wondering if you've also dealt with Tim before.

[KeWLKaT]

tim does have business issues.

he's never answered ANY of my pms or emails.

also, he has a thread on rdtiburon.com he made to 'fix' **** ups he did.

I mean if you're at a point that you screwed so many people that you don't remember what happened with who and when, it means you have a problem.

I know that i will never order anything from that guy and i suggest anyone reading this to do the same.

also, i am not saying he doesnt know his ****. he does, he has a sick car. just that he shouldnt do business!

[cbehage]

I hope everything fits. others have had probs.

[02xdGLS]

thanks for the input kewlkat. i remember a few threads about Tim and his business problems. was just wondering if any more ppl had problems with him. Sorry calrion for taking it off topic for a bit but i'm following all the turbo threads closely since it'll most likely be my next mod. (doesn't mean it's coming anytime real soon. :D)

[yamaha]

Tim is not doing business for the Hyundai community anymore. I was his last customer, and my turbo just shipped last night. If anyone wants to know what happened just PM me.

[KeWLKaT]

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAA


I feel bad for you clarion

[clarion]

:( ......oh my intercooler came in and my tranny cooler too... :) ...just waiting for my a/f gauge to come in...then ill go to triple seven performace to pick up the 2 gaskets and that one fitting for the oil drain tim didnt ship out

so far all i got installed is my turbo timer

ill take pic of the intercooler later

[KeWLKaT]

finally were gonna have an xd with r34 bodykit with a real intercooler in it

[Cypher]

woooooooooooooo hooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[skeetre]

Mine will be right after his.. :) XD, R34, Turbo! and 2 intercoolers

[clarion]

intercooler pic and stuff is up

[clarion]

my a/f guage came in, i went to a shop, they said they could install it (whole kit) for 500 bucks, not bad, i might let them do it, so if something goes wrong i could just take it back to them. also i been there sevral times and they're all cool

777 (http://www.t7performance.com/t7p.htm)

one of they're prject cars (http://www.t7performance.com/t7p_files/jamesrb25det.htm) they started it up....it sounded awsome

[only1db]

good luck with everyting!! i cant wait to see the final pics!

[clarion]

i came back from the shop, its $500+ tax(install the kit, boost and a/f gauge) and +$50 for the trans cooler, i just need to order some intercooler piping and couplers about $140 so soon as i order the pipes, ill just need to make an apointment

[GodisintheTV]

Do the trans cooler yourself, and let them install the kit. Thats a good price. only 500 for the turbo, intercooler, and gauges. damn, you got hooked up.

[skeetre]

hopefully they'll do mine as cheap then. Fordfasterr shipped it out today, or will today ;)

BTW, I'm back in the STATES! :) Whoo

[KeWLKaT]

Guys dont forget the dyno tuning, that should be another 100$ or so

[Cypher]

any updates on this?

[clarion]

still need to order the intercooler piping and t-bolt clamps and couplers...another 200 bucks :( hopefully i can order them today

[clarion]

i got the intercooler piping kit ordered....hope it ships fast

[clarion]

ok the piping is here, i just need to figure out my fuel management part, the injectors alone will work but will dump alot of unnessesery amount of fuel when idoling and will eventually kill my motor. so.....any ideas for the fms :confused:

[KeWLKaT]

go on the dyno, dont **** with tuning yourself.

unless its the shop that did that. sue them.

[clarion]

a shop told me that would happen if i went with just the injectors and no type of fmu or safc

but ill be buying a apexi safc2 as soon as i can so i can install this bad boy ;)

[KeWLKaT]

OMFG you just changed the injectors without doing anything for controlling them? CRAZY MOFO lool

damn bro............

ERG i would hit you in the back of the head if you were here lol

[clarion]

no no no , nothing is installed, i just asked a shop what would happen if went without any type or fuel controller and only put bigger injectors on, when i had the turbo installed

tim said it would be ok with only injectors in a turbo set up, but i wanted to hear other opinons..im glad i did

[KeWLKaT]

LOL

TIM IS A VERY VERY VERY VERY unreliable man. He got BANNED from rdtib for a reason.

thats all i have to say. i really feel bad for you, i hope the turbo is in good condition

[clarion]

it looks great brand new

[labmixz]

it looks great brand new

not to bust your balls here..

I had a turbo that I bought from evan, whom never used it and bought it from Tim...

Well, either it was bad OR this one shop dropped it with the exhaust housing off... Which I'm not sure which, but I complained to Tim about having a bad turbo, he was suppose to get it warrantied to me, I sent the turbo to his "dealer" and then didn't hear anything for 3 months until I filed a BBB compliant against Andres Turbochargers Inc. -- Then I got a response from the owner telling me he would look at it... it's been 7 months now, I don't have that turbo warrantied, as far as I'm concerned I'm out $500 from that Garrett T3 Super 60....

and now have gone to my t3/t4 setup...

[clarion]

wow...is there any way to see if my turbo is ok before i install it? what sould i look for?

[labmixz]

wow...is there any way to see if my turbo is ok before i install it? what sould i look for?

I'd look for shaft play, if you can wiggle the shaft at all... well, lol, if you can do that in the LEAST... it's not good ;) should be close to zero shaft play...


and check the fins on the compressor and exhaust wheels...

make sure none are bent at the tips...

[clarion]

it doesnt wiggle, the fins look good, also the turbo came in a garret box...probly doesnt mean anything tho

[labmixz]

it doesnt wiggle, the fins look good, also the turbo came in a garret box...probly doesnt mean anything tho


should be good then.. though the "suspect" to my bad turbo was it had a bad oil seal from the factory... which caused the shaft to screw up and who knows what else... so... umm... just wish ya good luck man...

[clarion]

thanks i need all the good luck i can use....only need a safc and then ill be boostin :cool:

or maybe ill go with the Greddy e-Manage thing

[labmixz]

thanks i need all the good luck i can use....only need a safc and then ill be boostin :cool:

or maybe ill go with the Greddy e-Manage thing


if you want your engine to last, the emanage is a better choice...

[Mahonroy]

I heard people having a hard time with the safc...usually have a hard time getting the car to idle correctly, and the ecu ends up canceling out the changes right?

[KeWLKaT]

that goes for any piggy back on our engines, actually

[Mahonroy]

well, what about unichip for example? The hyundai ecu works good with that...

[clarion]

im not sure if the chip will work with any set up

[KeWLKaT]

there is a way of making it impossible for the ECU to re-fix the settings, it takes a little added circuit. I have no clue what it is. The unichip must have that integrated.

[Vampyrate]

the only way that i see that happening is if you ask southpaw... he knows everything when it comes to the electrics of our cars

[KeWLKaT]

he doesnt know that much about fuel and whatnot though

[dmdicks]

The key to getting a piggy back to work correctly is to work withing the built in parameters of the OEM ECU. You can't use too big of an injector or subtract or add too much timing otherwise bad things will happen. Stay within the boundaries of what the OEM programming can handle and you'll be fine. That's what Alpine does with the Unichip. No fancy secret chip necessary. Just good tuning and knowing how the OEM ECU works.

[clarion]

well the boost gauge is in and ready to be hooked up to the vaccume source and the A/F gauge is in and workin good. ill take a pic of it and probly make a vid of it in action

still lookin for a fuel management :confused:

[KeWLKaT]

cool!

keep us posted :)

[Speed-Factor]

LOL

TIM IS A VERY VERY VERY VERY unreliable man. He got BANNED from rdtib for a reason.

thats all i have to say. i really feel bad for you, i hope the turbo is in good condition

Well I didn't get banned from RDtib and if you knew anything I left that site and asked for my account to be deleted. And if anyone paid attention would see I'm back on there, so......

And Clarion's turbo is a Brand New Garrett unit since I'm a Garrett Dealer with my new company, you have nothing to worry about with that turbo.

As for the other Turbos in the past up until this kit were from Andres Turbochargers. Now that the facts are straight I will let you carry on, since I won't be back on here for about another 4-5 months. :rolleyes:

Later

[only1db]

The key to getting a piggy back to work correctly is to work withing the built in parameters of the OEM ECU. You can't use too big of an injector or subtract or add too much timing otherwise bad things will happen. Stay within the boundaries of what the OEM programming can handle and you'll be fine. That's what Alpine does with the Unichip. No fancy secret chip necessary. Just good tuning and knowing how the OEM ECU works.

agreed...adheil from newtib...was running the 290 injectors with a SAFC...and he was fine...i believe he also had an msd unit for timing ;) granted this was as low boost situation...8psi...but still it will work

what about a fifth injector controller?? that wont mess with the ecu at all and the fuel will then be controlled by the external controller....

[clarion]

well... im gonna grap that safc2 from Estopatitiana
once i get that...then the fun begins ;)

[only1db]

just make sure you keep a good eye on your air/fuel ratio

[yamaha]

Be very careful with the SAFC2, hopefully you will have better luck then most people.

[clarion]

safc2 came in, my fitting sould of came in today too, theres a car show sat. so i cant really do anthing, so hopefully next week i can get all this stuff installed and tuned

[skeetre]

Come by and we'll hit the show together Sat, maybe we can install our SAFC2's at the same time too. ;)

[clarion]

i got the s-afcII installed...knock senor wire isnt hooked up yet but im getting to it... thanks everyone who help me install that thing :bowdown:

im just waiting for that lil aluminum fitting to come in...

[only1db]

good luck...what kind of boost are you going to be running?

[clarion]

about 7psi till everything is running good ,then ill up the boost :D

[yamaha]

I wouldn't venture past 9psi unless your getting into engine internals.

[Cypher]

yes. i would say don't go past 8 psi or so unless you can find really high octane gas around you! unless you wanna mess with the timing or something? because can't you mess with the timing in order to run higher boost on lower octane? i think thats what the nxt gen J&S safeguard does. you might as well order 1.8L pistons and rods if you wanna up the boost from kdmguy. they are only 300 bux! and lower the compression to 8:1

[skeetre]

I'm at a whopping 3-4psi right now :( I gotta find the leak. Come on by and check it out when you get a chance clarion.

[yamaha]

A decompression plate is a cheap alternative for a low-mild boost setup, I bought mine with gaskets for 100 dollars.

[clarion]

ill be looking for that plate thing...thanks

theres a place less than 5 min from my house that sells race gas and stuff like that

man ....that suck skeete ill try to look at it soon

[only1db]

the stock internals can take 10 psi but why risk it..i wouldnt go past 8 psi either...people are running decompression plates without difficulties past the 250whp mark.

[clarion]

3 new pics up.....i just need to find out when my welder has a day off so we can start the install

[clarion]

....ok saturday and sunday....the install will start :clap: :clap: :clap:
ill be takeing alot of pics.....we plan on using alot of couplers for now the welder is too busy at the moment. but he'll do it later

oh , i also got some exhaust wrap, for the downpipe

[Cypher]

yaY! ABOUT TIME

[KeWLKaT]

Update?

:)

[clarion]

ok....we just mocked up everything and have a game plan for tommorow...we're going to head up on base, they got a hobbie shop there......that intercooler piping is gonna be a pita :( we gonna start around 8am till when ever...they sould have a welder there, not sure tho

oh, the safcII is mounted and i need to take some pics
i gotta read up on tunning it so i done run too rich, with thos injectors

[only1db]

good luck with everything tomorrow!!

[clarion]

thanks...my car is packed with tools and pipes and....stuff

[only1db]

nice cant wait to see the final product....not to mention dyno numbers!!

[clarion]

http://x10.putfile.com/3/8419450395-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8419450395.jpg&s=x10)
http://x10.putfile.com/3/8419435785-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8419435785.jpg&s=x10)
today got off to a very late start, due to some unexpected events....we just got the headlights,bumper, and the windshield wash fluid tank off, i found out thats the only easier way to run the piping...with out cuting any of the frame or cutting holes, also we can run less piping, the pic still shows the tank in tho

my buddy made a lot of calls and found a welder, if the hobbie shops welder isnt there, so we will make a lot more progress tommorow

[Cypher]

sooo um did you get the turbo on at all? or just the IC?

[clarion]

nothing :redface: just got everything planed out...if we started the car wouldnt be drivable...and wouldnt finish, so we're going the the hobbie shop, or friends shop w/ lift...depending on the situation tommorow...i gotta work around his schedual..he has all the hook ups ;)

[Cypher]

when do you plan to have ti all done? you know we're all dying ot see the results.

[clarion]

me too :D hopefully everthing will get knock out mon...get the 2.5 exhaust done too.....probly not

[KeWLKaT]

LOL you're funny

and how is passing the piping making a larger detour going to save you on piping? lol

[only1db]

um...i think he means that he wont have to use as much piping has he once thought? thats my guess....there really isnt that much piping for a turbo in our cars...its real simple...

[KeWLKaT]

bah I know I will prefer to cute a bit of the frame next to the rad, because I really don't feel like re locating the windshield washer fluid tank, and besides, my coolant overfill will be going inside of the opposite fender :)

[clarion]

i couldnt do that bcause my intercooler is too long , instead of wraping the pipe back to like where the resonater goes, i took out the tank thing , and its giving me a clear shot to where i want to go....kinda hard to explain

http://x11.putfile.com/3/8512475086-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8512475086.jpg&s=x11)

[KeWLKaT]

oh ok

at first i thought your IC was the same size as mine like you stated previously ;)

[only1db]

yeah looks pretty similar...curious to see how it turns out.

[clarion]

well today was a waste...it took me forever to mount the intercooler, had a shop weld some brakets to the metal support thing(went to 2 shops first one the guys were being a**holes), got some bolts(took forever to find em, got home, realized i needed a long washer for the bolts, got them, cut some of the bolt off(too long) had to get new dremal disk, then finally cut em, had to drill the hole in the brakets, took forever, couldnt find a big enough bit, .....after 4 neighbors, got a big bit, drilled it and mounted the i/c....then went to work....7 hours to mount that lil i/c :redface:

im planing to cut the headers off my exhaust(the shop welded my entire exhaust) mount the mani., turbo, and down pipe mark were i need to drill the oil pan and then drain the oil, drop the pan, install the fitting(gonna try to find someone one to weld it, if not ill just use the nut) tap the oil off the side of the fuel rail, and install the injectors...hopefully i can get it all done..then the next day get the exhaust connected, or redone(2.5")

[Kens GLS]

The more iI read this thread the less I want a turbo. LOL

[dmdicks]

Hince the importance of buying a well designed kit, not pieces/parts. Your downtime would be a day or two instead months.

[skeetre]

My downtime was only a few days, but my turbo looks like crap. ;) You gotta decide of the end results are worth it to you. I do recommend buying a full kit instead of pieces though, it'll be easier and look nicer.

[clarion]

mine is gonna look sweet when im done :cool: the piping came out better than i thought...gonna paint em black or anodized blue...not sure yet

i drove today with no bumper with a intercooler mounted in the front, with pipes going into the fenders...look like i got it all installed...i got some good (i think) looks when i was driving it

gonna drop the oil pan tommorow and try to finish up....woulda got done today,but some guy i kinda know was messing around...to make a long story short, he blew like 8 fuses and the big 100amp one too ,my neons dont work, my system isnt playing and he was like..."so thats all you got done today".... :mad: so pissed and he took my box cutter... :mad:

[Kens GLS]

Good luck to you ... hope the end results turn out well for you.

[only1db]

hahahah!! this is turing into a fiasco!! good luck...it will turn you and when you spool up for the first time you will agree that it was all worth it...


you can easily fab your own kit for about 2000...and as long as you have all your parts together you will be good to go!

[slow 2K2GT]

Yep definite fiasco...will be checking periodically on the progress...good luck!

[Cypher]

i demand an update! :)

[clarion]

really???....haha...well....im waiting for 2 couplers with the hump in them so when i rev the motor the i/c pipes wont bend or distort....thats all im waiting for.....

[Cypher]

did they come in yet?! YAY me drunky

[clarion]

:abovelol: anywho, the stuff sould be here in thursday...well today now, man i cant wait...im desiding right now if i wanta get a turbo head gasket or low comp. pistions and rods

this is what it looks like now
http://x10.putfile.com/4/9503323719-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/9503323719.jpg&s=x10)
http://x10.putfile.com/4/9503315722-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/9503315722.jpg&s=x10)
http://x10.putfile.com/4/9503310219-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/9503310219.jpg&s=x10)

[KeWLKaT]

HAHAHHHAA youre using it as an intake


lol

[only1db]

damn...thats a long route...that might be a better option than what i was thinking of...damnt kewl get on the ball!! we have to compare the two!

[KeWLKaT]

bro i wish i could. as of now i have the IC and BOV in hand, waiting on the alpine kit to ship... still 90% complete since 3 weeks, lol

ill try to update if i get news

[yamaha]

Just a reminder, dont run and hosing to the valve cover, you dont want to put it under boost. :)

[KeWLKaT]

OH **** its true i just noticed that

REMOVE IT NOW!!!!

you have to make sure there is no vacuum lines going from the IM to the valve cover. The PCV has to be covered with a breather filter!

[yamaha]

One can be hooked up. Notice in this picture how he has his, which is the right way.

http://www.applianceservice-center.com/sean/Turbo/Turbo%20023.jpg

http://www.applianceservice-center.com/sean/Turbo/Turbo%20026.jpg

http://www.applianceservice-center.com/sean/Turbo/Turbo%20029.jpg

[KeWLKaT]

hmmm the thing is those two ports dont act the same way, one is the PCV, and the other one (hooked to the intak itself) only relieves at high RPM apparently.

I would worry about positive pressure building up in the crancase, and since the IM will be under boost, the PCV will be useless!!!!

[yamaha]

Regaurdless, he still will be fine if, he just needs to remove the PVC line.

[KeWLKaT]

yeah, but he has it hooked up on the PCV and IM on the same line which is my whole point :)

[yamaha]

I didn't see that, which he needs to fix then.

[KeWLKaT]

There you go :)

Clarion, please, be careful :D

[Cypher]

someone explain please. i'm not positive what you guys are tlaking about. :)

[clarion]

:confused: ok you guys just lost me..... what do you want me to remove?

i dont know if my pic is missleading but this is my set up
http://x10.putfile.com/4/9602241759.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)

[KeWLKaT]

switch the vaccum lines.

put the breather on the left one, and the catch can on the right

[yamaha]

He is going to get a CEL still if the left vacuum line isnt hooked up the the IM.

[KeWLKaT]

ummmmmm.....


no


whats your logic on that? why the hell would you get a cel...


i already have it hooked up like that, haha.

[clarion]

so you want me to hook it up like this
http://x10.putfile.com/4/9612452118.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)

oh i need to buy an oil line restrictor.....almost forgot :redface:

[KeWLKaT]

this is what im talking about

http://www.elantraxd.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4599&stc=1


i have studied the possibilities for a long time and have concluded that this is the best way.

basically: NO VACCUM LINES GOING FROM YOUR IM TO YOUR CRANKCASE.....

[clarion]

ok thanks...i went to 777(my turbo people) they told me to do the same thing
also i dont need to get a oil line reducer/restrictor...got that answer from 2 of the best shops around here. i got the tracking number for my couplers......it be here on the 10th :mad: so much for 2 day shipping, thats 4 days not 2 ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, oh well more waiting for me :( that gives me time to make my bumper alil better

[KeWLKaT]

no need for a restrictor 90% of the time the turbo housing oil inlet has one built in

[clarion]

i wish i knew that :redface: woulda saved some gas drivng there
once i have the bumper fitted good enough, ill take a pix, i gotta trim alil bit more, and bust out the touch up paint ;)

[only1db]

you DO have a catch can right?? if you just have a filter it will splatter after awhile...put some pics up damn it!

[KeWLKaT]

^^ lol.

[clarion]

haha...just for that youll have to wait longer.....haha, naw i been busy with work and stuff, ill get some fresh pixs :D

here you go
http://x11.putfile.com/4/9900072576-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/9900072576.jpg&s=x11)

[KeWLKaT]

cool!

that looks pimp man

now have fun on the tuning :)

[skeetre]

Hey, someone email me that pic, quit using putfile clarion.. I can't view 'em at work!

I might go to Adam's today after work, let 'em look at my turbo and fix my check engine light. Johnny said to get pics of other ppl's turbos. Mostly the intercooler setup.

[only1db]

Nice!! now you just have to cover up the pipes...and run some of the air to your brakes and you will be good to go!

[clarion]

i got the headers off (took forever) & drain the oil....then i though. the hard stuff was over

the manifold needed to be grinded on the edge, so it clear the power steering pump,

i turn the coolent hose around and turned around some clamp too, also cut/grinded away at the fans......no matter what i did , there is no way ill have enough clearance for that turbo,

im gonna remove the fans completly and see if that helps, then ill head up to auto zone for some small fans....if i can find a ride up there, also try to remove that allen head bolt for the oil. hopefully i can do all that an drop the pan too tommorow

[KeWLKaT]

try to remove the bolt while the engine is still hot.

[clarion]

i tried...it didnt work...ill just drill it out

[yamaha]

Drill if out then you will need a 1/8th tap to rethread into the engine. Also, be sure to get as much of the metal shavings out as you can before you put any brass connectors on there.

[dmdicks]

i got the headers off (took forever) & drain the oil....then i though. the hard stuff was over

the manifold needed to be grinded on the edge, so it clear the power steering pump,

i turn the coolent hose around and turned around some clamp too, also cut/grinded away at the fans......no matter what i did , there is no way ill have enough clearance for that turbo,

im gonna remove the fans completly and see if that helps, then ill head up to auto zone for some small fans....if i can find a ride up there, also try to remove that allen head bolt for the oil. hopefully i can do all that an drop the pan too tommorow

Yet another victim of Tim's excellent R&D... :rolleyes:

[only1db]

yeah that sucks...is it the manifold that is making not fit???

the xd is a tight space to work in...but its doable.

[clarion]

took the fans out...it fits good now, just gotta move the hoses over a bit for the turbo inlet
http://x11.putfile.com/4/10111533114-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/10111533114.jpg&s=x11)
http://x11.putfile.com/4/10111523644-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/10111523644.jpg&s=x11)

[KeWLKaT]

**** that. cut the goddamn welded thing on your turbo tim put there just to piss you off more.

just like yamaha did.

[clarion]

haha i know....i got a 90 degree coupler going in its place......its big and blue :cool:

[KeWLKaT]

ok good :)

i u just got me wondering there for a second :P

i understand what tim was trying to do to help you with the piping though that was for a non-intercooled setup!

[skeetre]

haha i know....i got a 90 degree coupler going in its place......its big and blue :cool:

I need one of those to go in place of my PVC pipe. ;)

Got my fuel tuning working yesterday, but still throwing a CEL.

Going back next week for more tuning on the dyno.

[KeWLKaT]

skeet maybe your CEL is because of the lack of a cat between the 1st and 2nd 02 sensor

[clarion]

:angryfire ok.....i had to unplug the harness on the alternater/starter(dont remember too tired) because the d/p was hiting it, it looks impossible to run the oil drain without it hiting the d/p and the dp i really close to the oil pan. also i still cant get the lil allen head bolt out(didnt try drillin yet) ......besides that everthing is going smothly :rolleyes: if i cant figure this stuff out by fri. ill just have it towed to a shop :(

http://x10.putfile.com/4/10119494780-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/10119494780.jpg&s=x10)
http://x10.putfile.com/4/10119502712-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/10119502712.jpg&s=x10)
http://x10.putfile.com/4/10119512247-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/10119512247.jpg&s=x10)
http://x10.putfile.com/4/10119540699-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/10119540699.jpg&s=x10)

[05xd]

Looking good man.
Seeing all these turbo builds makes me wanna cry.I guess i'll just curl up with my bottle....hehe.
It just sucks that you have to go thru all the fitting and removing and re-installing part to get this stuff to work.In the end,it will be worth it though

[Mahonroy]

Looking good! Its funny when I first got my turbo set up all well...set up, I had my boost gauge vacuum line hooked up the identicle way with all the brass fittings connected to make a "T". Everything worked fine but be carefull with that stock black vacuum line that weant inbetween the intake manifold and I believe the intake, or the intake manifold and the valve cover...I had used the old one as well and it ended up cracking causing my engine to idle like ****...btw I still have one more Vacuum Hub (http://www.jattus.com/Performance/vacuum.htm) available if you need it lol :D

[clarion]

ill pass, thanks tho, i replaced the black line with one of the blue ones(pic on post 166)....man i dont know what to do now.... :confused: i wont be able to sleep tonight

[clarion]

ok now the oil pan wont come off, i dont have a bolt the same size as the extra hole in the oil pan to take it off, the bolts for the oil pan are too small for it :mad:

ok i got the pan off an im ready to drill

[KeWLKaT]

lol nice!

good luck with the project man, its approaching the end :D

[clarion]

the end is near...i just need to get that lil allen head bolt out and im good to go... :D

[clarion]

does anybody know a good way to bend a downpipe :confused:
its hitting my oil pan, there is no way to bolt it to the turbo

[yamaha]

Either cut it and get an angled piece rewelded, or take it to an exhaust shop to get it finished. Everything Tim sent me worked, so, don;t give up just yet. :)

[evan938]

get it towed to an exhaust shop and have them chop off some of the DP.

that IC piping running up at the top of the bay actually looks pretty good...did you get the slim fans mounted? are they on the front?

the allen bolt is a *****. we heated the **** out of it and couldnt get it out. just start drilling w/ a small bit and work your way up.

[clarion]

no fans yet,ill hit up auto zone sunday, i drilled the allen bolt out and used one of thoes screw removers...then rethreaded with a 1/8 tap thanks yamaha, im gonna try to find a shop open tommorow and see if they could bend the pipe alil bit

[evan938]

hahaha...we tried an easy out. that ***** was not coming out. it sucked

[clarion]

well i tried to get money from a atm to buy some fans, the machince took my card and said it took it for my safty....wtf? i gotta wait till monday to talk to the bank :mad: turbo project is on hold again, also all the muffler shops are closed too :(

im not sure if i wanta put my bigger injectors in now or later....because i dont plan on driveing and going into boost untill everthing is good for sure

[yamaha]

If your going to run the 290cc injectors, you should be fine at 5psi of boost, but you will need that bigger fuel pump along with something better then the SAFC, it will just override the values you put into the SAFC.

[skeetre]

I'm running 290cc injectors at 6.5psi, with the arc1 split second fuel tuner... I was going to switch to the safc2 though. Right now my stock fuel pump seems to work fine. I should be up that way tomorrow clarion if you need me to help you or take you anywhere.

[yamaha]

Do you have an accurate wideband in place to keep an eye on your AFR though?

[clarion]

i just got a regular a/f gauge i want the aem wideband one

here are some current pixs

http://x402.putfile.com/4/10519263861-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/10519263861.jpg&s=x402)
http://x402.putfile.com/4/10519254923-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/10519254923.jpg&s=x402)

[evan938]

nice

i wish gas prices would go back down so i could do something like this...

again :)

[skeetre]

Do you have an accurate wideband in place to keep an eye on your AFR though?

Here's what I've got:
phantom gauge
http://mudz.org/pix/car/turbo/gauges.jpg

Guy at the auto shop rode around with me in it with some kind of tool hooked up that showed the % of fuel being added/removed and what not, and tuned it for me going down the road. He said the safc2 would give more options, instead of just a high/low, it has a range. He wanted me to get it installed so he can tune it on the dyno this week.

Can't wait to see how clarion's and mine compare on the dyno ;)

[clarion]

:D just gotta hook up one more fan & im good to go :D

[only1db]

nice get moving!!! fix your damn hand already!!

[clarion]

haha.... i would be done now if it wasnt for my wrist :( .....its getting lil better now still alil swollen and still hurting.....i took some pills, they sould be kicking in anytime now ;)

[eLantrabumb]

yeah i know how you feel with the rist n' all... although my wrist was injured in a slightly different way than yours i feel your pain, let's just say that i injured my wrist looking at the latest pics of your set up.

I'll let u figure it out on your own... ok well heres a small clue

:luvlove: :drool: :jerkit: :jerkit: :jerkit: :redface: :mad: :angryfire :eek: :D :thumbsup:

[mrhoaf]

^LOL

lookin' good man... now that I'm not gonna be working as much, I'm gonna have to meet up with you and skeetre and check it out in person.

[only1db]

^ yeah tell me about it! where is crestview anyway? is it near orlando?

[skeetre]

crestview is north of Fort Walton Beach, which is between Pensacola and Panama City... so no, not near Orlando :) It's the middle of NOWHERE.
It's right off I-10 about 30 mins from Pensacola.

[clarion]

:D :D :D :D :D its all in, no leaks...yet.....it sounds like a trunk right now, im about to head over the the muffler shop and just connect it with my exhaust (probly just a flex pipe), im to broke right now to get a new one

oh yeah i still gotta put the injectors in, ill do that later

[skeetre]

Sweet! I called Adam's, I won't be up that way till tomorrow afternoon now.

So when's the Dyno'ing taking place?

[clarion]

omg i love the sound :bowdown:

it just keeps boosting, its suppost to be set at 5-6 psi but it went up to almost 10 easisly, i had to let off the gas( it wasnt at wot) the afg started running lean and it felt like it was goin to stall...i was like "OH ****"!" the injectors are goin on tommorow, trans cooler,and wrapping the dp

the stock injectors where good at 5psi, untuned (not at wot tho)

i gotta talk to a dyno place to get it tunned and stuff

[tharptroy]

omg i love the sound :bowdown:

it just keeps boosting, its suppost to be set at 5-6 psi but it went up to almost 10 easisly, i had to let off the gas( it wasnt at wot) the afg started running lean and it felt like it was goin to stall...i was like "OH ****"!" the injectors are goin on tommorow, trans cooler,and wrapping the dp

the stock injectors where good at 5psi, untuned (not at wot tho)

i gotta talk to a dyno place to get it tunned and stuff

uhh....you might want to check that your wastegate is functioning properly

[clarion]

yeah ,i got an apointment at a shop to have them look over everthing, oh man i love my car again...i gotta make a vid or something, my dig camrera take good vid and the sound is very clear on playback

[mrhoaf]

I (translated: my brother in law) just got a miniDV cam... I think I might be able to arrange to shoot some video sometime... :D


also, he's the guy that did the pics of the first pittsburgh meet last year...

[only1db]

sweet!! yeah no blowing up engines now!! get some vid clips!

[clarion]

im at my buddys house right now ill make quick vid on my way home...i hope it will turn out good...its hard to drive with an injured wrist in the first place, lets see what happens when i throw in a camrea

also my coilovers came in :D

vid 1 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZNRdFgG3N2A)

vid 2 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=clIkiqSDblw)

[toymachine566]

sounds sweet......now stop teasing, i wanna see some WOT clips lol.

good job man, glad to see its workin out for you.

[Keyan]

Did you get the boost creep fixed?

[clarion]

the reason for the creaps, the silicone hose going into the wasgate was expanding, i got it repalced, its all good now.... well i was with tim at the dyno and hes running alil lean with the injectors (ill let him tell you his dyno numbers ;) ).....so now its dyno proven that the sonota injectors will not work

but i still plan on using them till i find a bigger injector, i just wont drive at wot

[evan938]

http://www.elantraxd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12042&highlight=oem+400cc

[05xd]

the reason for the creaps, the silicone hose going into the wasgate was expanding, i got it repalced, its all good now.... well i was with tim at the dyno and hes running alil lean with the injectors (ill let him tell you his dyno numbers ;) ).....so now its dyno proven that the sonota injectors will not work

but i still plan on using them till i find a bigger injector, i just wont drive at wot
The sonata injectors are good for around 6 psi or so then they crap out.What kind of boost are you trying to obtain?10 or so,you could find a set of 440 cc injectors and be good

[clarion]

thanks evan...tim is at around 5psi and hes running too lean to be driving at wot...we had a wideband hook up

[skeetre]

I got 164hp, but the guy said I should easily be able to get another 5hp just with putting more fuel in, it's running too lean even with the safc maxing out the fuel on the high side. I'm only getting about 4.5psi also... my piping SUCKS... I just haven't had the time to get it replaced yet. Wedding plans and work are driving me crazy right... mostly work. He said I definitely need bigger injectors, around 400-440 would be perfect. Still gotta fix my CEL too.

[yamaha]

340cc injectors should be fine if your not going to be running over 8-9psi. I have 440's and they are overkill at 7psi. At idle I am around -120 for variables on the SMT.

[clarion]

i install the injecters and guess what.......they were not for the oem harness, so i sanded them down to fit...they seem to work ok, but im still runnin lean when the boost starts boostin :rolleyes: ......oh well, atleast i can make some cool noises

[only1db]

this is why some people choose to go with a fifth injector...you will never been lean...all you need is a single monster injector.

[Cypher]

but with the fifth injector it is also hard to make sure your AFR is constant just because of atomization of the fuel. i know the one guy on NT complains that its running on the rich side.

[clarion]

yeah i thought about it, but im gonna get some bigger injectors and a big air ram mani. and up the boost alil :D sound good?

[Cypher]

you're going to get tuned first RIGHT?

[KeWLKaT]

^ lol of course not, silly ricer! who tunes their engines!

[clarion]

:abovelol: well , get the injectors, tune it to run alil rich and then get the mani, and then up the boost alil ;)

[only1db]

but with the fifth injector it is also hard to make sure your AFR is constant just because of atomization of the fuel. i know the one guy on NT complains that its running on the rich side.

did you read maxium boost??? this is one of the ways he suggests setting up a turbo...one for better fuel economy and second so you dont have issues with idling. :D

[KeWLKaT]

why would you have idling issues with bigger injectors on all four cyls if it is tuned properly?

[clarion]

yeah, ill look more into that, but i have a fear of if the injector fails or what-not

[Cypher]

did you read maxium boost??? this is one of the ways he suggests setting up a turbo...one for better fuel economy and second so you dont have issues with idling. :D
yes actually i have. i actually went thro it twice to make sure i got a bunch of the things. yes it does have better economy and it does make it easier to idle since you aren't trying to idle monster injectors and since we can't use a fuel pressure regulator. but my point was that fuel from the extra injector may not atomize the same everytime you lay on it and disburse into the cylinders evenly. which may make the AFR flucuate.

o/t: damn it hurts trying to type. sooo sore

[only1db]

minisculy(sp?) its not has dramatic as everybody says it is.

[tharptroy]

why would you have idling issues with bigger injectors on all four cyls if it is tuned properly?

injectors only have a certain range in which they can operate. we had this problem when I was on the formula SAE team. it was a 250cc turbo engine that spun to 19,000 rpm. basically a huge injector wont be able to supply a small enough amount of fuel at idle, causing it to run poorly or "flood" in an extreme case.

thats why multiple injectors/cyl are nice for engines producing lots of power.

[only1db]

somebody i know was going to go to a two injector per piston setup with this car...modify the fuel rail and what not...

[evan938]

IIRC i think dmdicks has adapted to a secondary fuel rail and i believe tim (speedfactor) has made something for his elantra to run 8 injectors

[Cypher]

yes but dave is going twin-charged.

[yamaha]

Modifying the fuel rail to adapt 8 injectors to it is actually quite easy. There is a member over at RDTiburon that sells the kit for 200 bucks, and I know there is a company making them now as well.

[KeWLKaT]

that company is the one here in montreal, member Denisst is the one that sold it over at RD and did the GB a while ago

[evan938]

yeah...twin charge or single doesnt matter. its really not hard to do it. also, when you use a fuel tuner like the smt-6 or another stand alone, you can easily control the secondary injectors to only activate under boost, so your stock injectors handle anything up to that point, and then the secondaries inject fuel once boost is present and it is needed. this makes for an easy idle and then some large injectors will make up for the small ones under boost

[Cypher]

i understand that. but unless you're forcing a crazy amount of air into the engine i don't think you'd need that that many injectors!

[evan938]

that many? its an easy way to do things. putting in a secondary rail of injectors will do a few things.

1) it will allow the use of primary stock injectors to control fuel at idle
2) it will allow you to use something like 290 or 340cc injectors and have enough fuel with your stock injectors to run a good ammount of boost
3) they are easier to control with a stand alone or a SMT-6 than trying to control 4 400cc injectors when you dont need nearly that much fuel at idle
4) it will place a second injector on each cylinder instead of one big injector at the TB where there is no garuntee that it will put the same ammount of fuel into each cylinder. this will insure equal fuel levels to each cylinder

even if you do something like the stock 190s on the main fuel rail and secondary 290s, it will provide enough fuel for probably 250whp, maybe more. set the smt-6 or whatever youre using to keep the secondaries shut off until boost is present and the fuel is needed and it will work perfect.

if you can get the IM adapted for a secondary rail or get an IM spacer with the fuel rail built in, it will be easier than trying to run huge primary injectors and restrict them so much that you can idle like stock

[poppawheelie]

how about a big old Edelbrock 650?

[tharptroy]

how about a big old Edelbrock 650?

I guess you're asking why carbs work fine?

a 5th injector shoots fuel into the throttle body, and alot of it will be hitting the throttle plate staight on, causing it to come out of suspension.

another thing to take into account is manifold design. carbed manifolds are designed to keep fuel in suspension (tested for wet flow capability). whereas typical EFI manifolds are not.

[Cypher]

i understand all that and agree but for our cars we don't have a kit or anything available so its much easier just to use bigger injectors or the 5th injector that alpine supplies. not many people here are going to take the time to make a secondary fuel rail for each of the cylinders. for hte majority of people its a bunch of fab work that could be avoided just by going with some larger injectors. sure you could do a secondary fuel rail but i for one wouldn't waste time fabing it up if i'm shooting for like 250whp. but then again i have no idea how much it'd cost or take to make one. i'd just live with a slightly off idle.

[evan938]

make a secondary rail? just get one from a junkyard, run a fuel line to the secondary rail, wire up the injectors into the smt-6

[Cypher]

gotcha. i'm lazy. i'd just do larger injectors for like 250whp. and i keep saying that number because most people here aren't shooting for anything higher.

[clarion]

tim ordered both of us the 2.5 map sensor thing...hope it make the safc2 work better...sould come in, in a week

[only1db]

gotcha. i'm lazy. i'd just do larger injectors for like 250whp. and i keep saying that number because most people here aren't shooting for anything higher.


give me some time... :D

[evan938]

just because i dont feel like typing it up again when i know it was just posted

you need an ECU designed for a 2.5 bar map sensor. just plugging one in isnt going to solve your problems

Basically for example your stock OEM map sensor has a specific range between 0-5 volts (i.e. 0 volts = -25 psi, 5 volts 3psi, just an example) so your computer is expecting that if the OEM map sensor sends a signal of 1 volt to the computer, the computer is expecting that that is equal to maybe -20 psi) so now you go and put a 3 bar MAP sensor to where maybe 0 volts = -25 psi, but 5 volts = 44.1 psi, the range is going to be different...now if the MAP sensor says 1 volt which is supposed to be maybe a couple pounds of boost, the ECU looks at that 1 volt as being -20 psi, so you will not have the proper amounts of fuel, the ECU needs a seperate equation of voltage v.s psi for each MAP sensor that has a different range, so the ECU will need re-programmed, or hell maybe a piggy back will be able to take care of it to a certain extent.

[clarion]

someone said they put the settings on the safc in 6 and out 1 and it ran without a cel with the 2.5 map...so ill give it a try too

[KeWLKaT]

the safc and map sensor will work very well together.

[clarion]

boost...... :bowdown:

i was on the highway goin around 70mph and slowly eased into boost and kept it around 4psi and around 25%-30% throttle (keeping a close eye on the a/f gauge)...it pulled liked i was a 70% throttle N/A .....i cant wait till i get my 2.5 map and bigger injectors

but when taking off from dead starts it bogs down like its gonna die, i think im running too rich on low rpms or something? any ideas

[Mahonroy]

It seems that I was having a similar problem sometimes when taking off from dead starts (would have to give more gas than usual to get a nice takeoff) otherwise it seemed like it was bogging down and wanting to die. We ended up taking away some of the fuel and it solved the problem you may want to try that...

[only1db]

what does your handy gauge say? AF ratio

[skeetre]

that's how mine was too. I had to lean it out on the low side, it was real sluggish and stalled out a couple times even.. it's running good right now.

[clarion]

what does your handy gauge say? AF ratio

when stopped the gauge is swinging back and forth like normal, but when i give it some gas it goes to rich and then it starts to do its thing

im gonna take you guys advice and try to lean it out...also im gonna raise the % for the high throttle.....its raining too much now ill try it when it drys up some

[only1db]

yeah sounds like your dumping too much fuel...just remember to pull the plugs and check them...they might be fouled up because of the extra fuel. ;)

[clarion]

ok ill do that too, i think i need new ones anyway

[only1db]

if not before than definetly after...

[skeetre]

I got new plugs and wires the same time the turbo went in. The NGK ones that are one degree cooler. I forget the part #, but I got 'em at pepboys in P'cola.

[KeWLKaT]

Yep, at least one step colder.

[only1db]

cnat you just run normal v-power plugs??? copper is always best right?

[KeWLKaT]

blah.. ''best''

it wears out like a motha though.