More power out of alpine developments entry level setup... [Archive] - ElantraXD.com

Mahonroy

12-01-2005, 06:20 PM

Hello, currently everything in my setup has been 100% reliable and am ready to increase the power output of it, and was looking for some oppinions and information, I would be greatly appreatiative.

So far here is my plan. I got my new intercooler in, here is what it looks like:
http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/60000066/Images/intercooler%20dimensions.JPG

I just decided that I am going to use aluminized steel for the charge pipes and paint them with high temp black paint, cheap, easy to weld, and will match the rest of the tubings.
I got a new coolant overflow tank that I am going to mount near the left strut tower, and remove the old one that is right next to the radiator so I have room for the charge pipes.
I am also going to relocate my horn, and possibly modify the bracket that connects the upper and lower support together (the bracket that had the horn attached to it). The intercooler is going to be mounted directly infront of the radiator. The pipes are going to come down off the turbo, through a hole directly to the left of the radiator, into the intercooler, then from the intercooler through another hole directly to the right of the radiator, then over to connect to the rest of the intake.
My goal is to get 15psi running through this, is there anything else I need to do with fuel? I am going to send my unichip over to alpine developments to get the 12psi program on it which I was under the impression has maps to around 15psi, but what do I do in the event of it overboosting like it has been doing? I think that now since I have soo much more volume to fill up with air most of this problem will be eliminated, or if the maps stop right at 15 psi, then maybe its best to have the wastegate set to 13-14 incase it does overboost a little then it will be no problem? Also I am planning on using a SSQV BOV, which I do not have at this time, so was just going to simply plug up the HKS flange for the time being and only run 12psi through it untill I get the BOV, then have it at 15. I was looking at the walbro 190 fuel pump, is this something that I should consider getting or is it not really needed for my application? What about my CVVT, is there anything I need to do about it or should it run just fine? Thanks again and I will post up pics of the intercooler installation and fabrication.

Mahonroy

12-06-2005, 06:50 PM

So far everything is going well, took lots of pics, the setup is going to be sweet. I am still thinking of a good spot to re-locate the horn to, I was originally just planning on mounting it to the left strut tower, but I am leaning away from that as I don't want it to look too cheasy and have to much **** in the engine bay that doesn't need to be there. I was thinking in the left fender well right next to the windshield resivour, what do you guys think about that spot? Also I made 2x custome brackets to mount the intercooler to the support beam, the bottom of the intercooler is maybe floating like 0.5 inches above the bottom support beam, do you think I should mount the bottom down to or is the 2 brackets above good enough? I also got to consider that the intercooler piping is going to stabalize it as well.
Last question is that the intercooler pipings are going around the radiator, is there any "choice" locations to have the couplers at so when the engine rocks on the motor mounts it doesn't bend ****, and also to prevent rubbing...should I have any of the IC pipes bracketed down to the frame anywhere?

05xd

12-06-2005, 06:53 PM

Wish I could help you with any sugg on the couplers,but I have no clue.But,the mounting of the horn in lower fender well sounds like a good idea

dmdicks

12-07-2005, 10:07 AM

The intercooler will be fine with 2 upper brackets holding it. So were you able to fit it in the location behind the grill like we were lookin at?

As long as there is a gap in between the pipes that connect to the compressor outlet and Throttle body that should provide enough cushion for the engine movement. I can't remember but do you have motor mount inserts yet? If not your gonna need them before you turn up the boost...the OEM mounts are utter crap above 10psi..

only1db

12-07-2005, 10:27 AM

agreed....

that is pretty much what i will be doing...post up some pics!! cant you just move the horn up so its more in the upper grill??

FordFasteRR

12-07-2005, 10:45 AM

one issue that you may encounter is getting the boost to the levels you want.

I have a good reason for this and here is a scenario..

Your wastegate is reading the boost pressure directly from the vacume port on the compressor housing. This will regulate the boost based on compressor housing pressure, not TB inlet pressure. The pressure that is measured at the compressor will typically be a few psi higher than the pressure measured at the TB inlet due to the loss of pressure past the intercooler.

So what happens ? You hook up a guage to your manifold, and you read boost of say, 10 psi... now this is not right... you know you should be getting 12-15 psi right ? but you are not getting that much boost due to the intercooler restriction...

How can you fix the problem ?

The answer is simple. Reference the wastegate actuator valve from a vacume port on the intake manifold instead of the compressor housing. Plug the original compressor housing port so that you don't leak boost from it.

Run a new vacume hose from the intake manifold to the wastegate actuator valve.

So what is the result ? now, the turbo will continue to spool up until the actual spring pressure on the wastegate is reached and you should get the maximum allowable boost that the wastegate can handle without over-boosting and without using an adjustable boost controller. If your wastegate spring is set to 15 psi, then you will get 15 psi of boost at the TB inlet because it will not open the wastegate valve until 15 psi is reached AT THE INTAKE MANIFOLD :)

:)

Take not however, that to reach this balance, the boost pressure at the compressor housing will be a bit higher than before... for this example, suppose you have a 15 psi spring in the wastegate, and you reference it from the intake manifold... your turbo will actually make about 18-22 psi at the compressor to make up for the pressure drop across the intercooler. This is perfectly acceptable as long as the turbo is maintained properly by using the right oil, and changing it often enough to keep things clean in the turbo shaft bearings...

Mahonroy

12-07-2005, 11:49 AM

Yeah the thought had crossed my mind on using a vacuum line for the wastegate instead of the compressor inlet, one thing though, I am experiencing a little bit of boost leak from the wastegate not being able to vent out boost quick enough, if I use a vacuum source instead it seems I may have a worse case of it? hmm....don't know lol I may try it out to experiment with it. I was going to make a manual boost controller and splice it in between the line, I guess I could even do this from a vacuum source.

Yeah I was able to fit the intercooler there, barely, this has to be the maximum sized intercooler possible to fit, if it were 1 inch longer in length - wouldn't fit... if it were half an inch thicker - wouldn't fit...it could be half an inch taller and it would fit, but another half inch and it wouldn't fit.

Didn't get as much work done to it as I would have hoped, because I have been doing this project with my car in the driveway, and its been cold as hell. I been wearing these mechanic overalls that are supposedly good for -40 degrees, but its still damn cold, so been trying to stay on the things that need to be fabricated so I can do this in the garage, such as the charge pipes, brackets, wiring harnesses, etc.

FordFasteRR

12-07-2005, 02:01 PM

awesome ! :)

how about some pics ?

Dust

12-07-2005, 06:31 PM

YOu either need to increase your boost or get a bigger wastegate if you can't move enough air through the wastegate, or find out if there is a restriction in your wastegate.

st_anger5532

12-07-2005, 07:01 PM

Didn't get as much work done to it as I would have hoped, because I have been doing this project with my car in the driveway, and its been cold as hell. I been wearing these mechanic overalls that are supposedly good for -40 degrees, but its still damn cold, so been trying to stay on the things that need to be fabricated so I can do this in the garage, such as the charge pipes, brackets, wiring harnesses, etc.

yes its been really freakin cold -17f last night here in cheyenne. but back on topic yes take pictures NOW. lol.

Mahonroy

12-08-2005, 01:30 AM

Alright here are some pics of what I got going on so far:

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter1.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter2.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter3.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter4.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter5.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter6.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter7.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter8.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter9.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter10.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter11.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter12.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter13.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter14.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter15.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter16.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter17.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter18.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter19.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter20.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter21.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter22.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter23.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter24.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter25.jpg

Let me know what you guys think (yeah I know making the psudo mandrel bends isn't the best idea, but it saves me some bucks, had to be a very sharp bend to get around the radiator more so than ones you can buy already bent, and also just streight up wanted to make them lol)

KeWLKaT

12-08-2005, 01:35 AM

LOL why dont you grind those ****ers down?

nice job otherwise.

what overflow tank did you buy? or is that the OEM one? I still haven't looked into the charge pipe rooting well enough yet.

Mahonroy

12-08-2005, 01:44 AM

Yeah I found a really good route for the charge pipes, I didn't take pictures of how the other ones are situated yet but will work good.

I ground inside to make sure the air has a clear path, I left the ones on the outside just for added strength thats all.

I bought some cheap overflow tank from checkers for $4.99, then just modified it a bit. Took the retarded label off the cap, made the breather tube and cable tied it down, ran the other tube from the radiator to the bottom of the tank, made a bracket to bolt to the bracket that came with the tank, then found the screw that matched some of the mounting holes infront of the left strut and bolted it down, worked out pretty simply and works good. I did get new hoses though as the ones that came with it were so cheap I was afraid of using them.

KeWLKaT

12-08-2005, 01:46 AM

you lucky SOB

where you mounted it is perfect.

with my stupid abs module i cannot do that I guess I'll have to find something else :(

dmdicks

12-08-2005, 10:57 AM

That's what you get for buying ABS.. ;)

Nice job Matt! Can't believe you were working out there in the frigid temps. Where did you end up getting the 3-2.25 reducers from?

Mahonroy

12-08-2005, 11:11 AM

Lol home depot http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/40.gif they are more of a temporary solution untill I can get the actual ones ordered. Right now I am trying to figure out what route I am going to go with. Originally I had 2x 90 degree rubber bends (or sometype of meterial, the ones you gave me dave) that I was going to have on each hooked up to both ends of a pipe...so a 90 degree bend would come off the turbo, go into the tube, then the other 90 degree bend connecting it to the tube on the inlet of the intercooler. Well, one of the bends I absolutely was not able to get onto the pipe, so I have 2 options... I can either go to home depot and get a 90 degree rubber bend from the plumbing section and use that for now (and I would prefer to use this one connecting the inlet tube, and not use this comming right off the turbo), or I can sand the paint off the tube and make metal 90 degree bends and then connect everything with streight silicone couplers (this sounds like the better idea, but will add a lot more time to the project, but may be worth it) will have to go back and buy more steel though (was funny though because my girlfriend wanted to help out a little so I asked her if she could go buy me some more steel from the store, and whenever she goes there they end up giving her the **** for free, so will try that route again lol). I guess my question is will the homedepot rubber bends hold up to the heat or is that a bad idea? Thanks again!

FordFasteRR

12-08-2005, 11:20 AM

AWESOME !!!!!!!!

Thanks for the pics.

only1db

12-08-2005, 11:20 AM

taht is a very good question

that is one big *** FMIC!! bigger than i had planned! where did you get it from again??

yeah the ABS unit is right in the way...this should be interesting to see how we can do this kewlkat

Mahonroy

12-08-2005, 12:03 PM

I just ordered it off ebay, MISHIMOTO intercooler (24.5 X 12 X 3) has 3 inch inlet/outlet.

st_anger5532

12-08-2005, 01:32 PM

my friend dan in fort collins CO has a Cry02 intercooler sprayer for his turboed prelude. and its pretty damn cool. maybe you should think about getting one, or making your own when you get this all done and you get everything working decently.makes a pretty nice differance one thos hot summer days. doesnt work on that great in the winter of course but you still get the air a bit colder if its not below zero outside likes its been for the past 2 days. well its looking really good man. keep it up.

CTele02

12-08-2005, 02:04 PM

Very nice pics... just I would of at least put a tarp over the front bumper (where it was) since it was out in the snow....

Mahonroy

12-09-2005, 01:28 AM

Decided to just go ahead and do it the right way so sanded off the paint and welded together another psudo mandrel bend to it, now its good to go. Also extended the front collision wiring harness, actually I pretty much have everything done (I already test fit all the pieces and it fits perfectly). Was going to jack the car up and install the stuff but it was soo damn cold and like 10:00p.m. at night so just going to wake up early in the morning and finish everything up, will let you know how it works. Also was curious about something...how "picky" is the ecu in respect to resetting it? I take it I should reset the ECU before I turn the car on and drive it easy for the first 10 minuets, etc. (kinda like what the alpine instructions said to do the first time you fire it up), what about when I install manual boost controller, I shouldn't need to reset the ECU everytime I make an adjustment do I? (now that I am typing this the answer seems pretty ovious that I don't lol just thought I'd ask in case). Once I get the unichip re-mapped I was going to manual boost controll set the boost to 12 psi and drive around for a while untill I get the BOV, then I will go more if everything is kosher. I have it set up nicely because I made 2 pipes, one pipe doesn't have the flange on it, and the other one does, so I can leave it like this, then when I get the BOV I can just pop that pipe right in there and attach the BOV no problem (will have to weld a recirculating fitting though to my intake, but thats no problem)

dmdicks

12-09-2005, 11:06 AM

Hey Matt, I talked to John and he said the program in the Unichip should be good to at least 12psi. Do you have a wideband O2 yet? If so, just reset the OEM ECU, turn up the boost slowly and see how everything reacts. My bet is it will be just fine.

Mahonroy

12-09-2005, 01:14 PM

Thanks! What happens if it boost creeps past 12 though such as 13-14?

dmdicks

12-09-2005, 04:07 PM

That's where raising the boost slowly and having a wideband comes into play.. ;)

Mahonroy

12-10-2005, 12:01 AM

Yeah no kidding...
So far got the intercooler mounted up, test fitted the charge pipes and some of them had to be modified. Let me tell you though seting up an intercooler system for an elantra is one big pain in the ***! There is soo little room to work with (and take this for example, took me 1 hour to figure out how to fit a charge pipe from the turbo to the inlet of the intercooler, no exageration) plus having to soak the silicone couplers in boiling water before I cram them on the pipe doesn't help either. The pipes I am using are 2.25 in diamater, the ones that alpine had sent me I thought were this size, but it turns out I can actually slide the alpine pipes inside the 2.25 in diameter, so they are deffinetly smaller, and the silicone couplers don't work unless I stretch them, big pain in the ***... also took me 45 minuets to tighten the hose clamps for that piece (using a ratchet, could only tighten by one click at a time, and was in the most difficult place to reach you could imagine) next time I turbocharge a vehicle its gotta have a lot of under the hood space lol. I had a 90 degree bend that I was planning on using, but since I have to soak it in hot water and use all of my strength to get the thing on a tube, when its in a hard to reach place to put the tube on, its pretty much impossible... so I was thinking of getting a home depot coupler that a tube slides into no problem and using that, do you think I will have any problems with this, or will it end up melting/desentagrating over time? The location of it would be like so: from the turbo outlet comes a tube connected with a silicone coupler, the tube has a psudo mandrel bend and heads over to the left side of the car, where then it is in need of a 90 degree silicone/rubber bend so it can go around the radiator- this is the 90 degree bend I am considering using a home depo 90 degree elno, what do you think?

only1db

12-10-2005, 09:32 PM

not sure...sounds like you are running into some tricky stuff with that FMIC...i hope that we can all learn from this...good luck! may the force be with you

Mahonroy

12-11-2005, 12:53 AM

Alright finally got everything installed! Here are some more pics:

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter26.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter27.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter28.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter29.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter30.jpg

Cheesy I know, but don't worry its only temporary and it works.
http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter31.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter32.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter33.jpg

I know it looks a little cheasy with all the silicone couplings and tubes going into the intake, its only temporary untill I get my blow off valve. I have been just grandma driving it around untill everything sets, breaks in, ecu learns, etc. Everything is working perfectly so far though, idles fine, no leaking, no problems. Once I get all of the wiring harnesses situated in there, and the front bumper back on I will beat on it and let you know the differences. One difference I immediatly noticed though; originally when I would accelerate and let off the throttle it would make a compressor surge shutter type of a sound, now it makes the same sound, but the frequency of the shutter is a lot less, which makes sence, because there is soo much more volume for the turbo to fill up, and when the throttle place closes there is more of an air resivore to squish and surge, etc.
Also after christmas I am getting the blow off valve and was going to re-make all of my tubing in stainless steel or aluminum. The ones I made now don't fit 100% perfectly, there may be some rubbing problems in the future, better airflow, etc. and since I made some already I can crank out another set in a day no problem. Also I am most likely going to make like 4 duplicates of the pipes and see if anyone is interested in them as the market for intercooler setups for the elantras seems to be pretty scarce. Anyways let me know what you think!

only1db

12-11-2005, 02:01 AM

aint too shabby for the first one...i'm sure the future pipes will come out a little better! yeah definetly get a BOV! you need it!

KeWLKaT

12-11-2005, 07:17 AM

seriously meng.
wheres that hks?

dmdicks

12-11-2005, 07:37 PM

Really nice job Matt! It came out really good. Man the IC is HUGE!! I'll certainly be hitting you up some day soon to help fix some of my pipes...

Mahonroy

12-12-2005, 07:21 PM

Finally got everything back together (not sure why the image isn't showing up, but instead the code...nevermind, was because I didn't do http://...):

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter34.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter35.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter36.jpg

http://www.spiropictures.com/Intercooler/inter37.jpg

Weant driving around for a while and opened it up quite a bit! Boost seems to build at around the same speed. Its WAY easier to get the clutch to slip now, which sucks because the clutch slips before you get the full taste of all the power. Slips at the end of 2nd and pretty much anywhere in 3rd where I gun it it slips, I need to get that **** fixed! Also noticed the intake/turbo deffinetly sounds different, must be from the intercooler somehow, but it makes a really sweet sound (deffinetly not like I have a leak or anything I double checked everything). Weather outside was 54 degrees F. and it was acting like the wastegate was set right at 10psi, didn't creap up either. Just need to go to home depot and rig up a manual boost controller, send unichip to alpine to get new program on it, and I will be good to go for 12psi. When the BOV arives I will set it up to 15psi, but will deffinetly 100% make sure I have somekind of a way to monitor air/fuel ratio, timing, etc. But GD, this car is starting to get really fast!

I was thinking though, instead of making a manual boost controller from a sprinkler valve (BTW do any of you know a specific one I should be looking for, or a specific style?) it seems like it would be pretty easy to make an electronically controller boost controller as well. Couldn't you just get an electronically controller sylinoid, and have the switch connected up to a pressure sensitive switch which would be connected to a vacuum line? (sure you wouldn't have all the nice features that a normal electronically controlled boost controller does). But this solution seems to be better than just a manual boost controller right? With the manual boost controller it will graduatly start letting boost out before it reaches the limit, then finally when it gets to the limit the wastegate is all the way open for the exhaust gas to flow out while maintaining the boost level. With the electronic way it would keep the wastegate shut through the entire psi levels up until the desired amount, then open the sylinoid which would let the air pressure open the wastegate up all the way. They would both do the same thing in limiting the amount of boost going into your engine, only the electronic one will allow you to have more horsepower area, or more horsepower at lower rpm's....

Estopatitiana

12-12-2005, 07:39 PM

what bov are you getting?

Mahonroy

12-12-2005, 08:14 PM

Going to get one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SSQV-Monza-HKS-style-Recirc-BOV-blow-off-valve-FreeShip_W0QQitemZ8021993131QQcategoryZ33742QQrdZ1 QQcmdZViewItem

Sure its not the best choice, oviously a real genuine HKS one would be better, but I have read up on em and they seem to work just as good. Mostly want to go with this one because it has the ability to recirculate, has adjustability, and the SSQV styles work well with MAF sensored cars, so I will actually be able to get it to idle properly, plus they sound cool, and they are inexpensive.

dmdicks

12-13-2005, 11:16 AM

Matt, that's an interesting theory about the EBC. It might be cost prohibitive to do those as a solenoid that could act fast enough to prevent boost creep might be too expensive.
The IC is lower than I thought. Anyway to raise it some so more of the surface area is exposed to air flow? Otherwise you may have to fabricate that delfector we were talking about that one day..

Mahonroy

12-13-2005, 02:29 PM

The most I could raise it would be about 0.5" - 1.0" because the hood latch is in the way. Yeah the deflector may not be such a bad idea, read up on a lot of those in Maximum Boost not too ong ago, seem to be really effective. I could also trim my bumper some too I guess.

BTW, for the manual boost controller, do I want something that is adjustable that will just restrict the line (e.g. the same thing as "pinching" the line to restrict flow) so this would be spliced inbetween the hose. Or do I want something that is going to leak air out into the atmosphere, so this would be "T"'ed off basically.

dmdicks

12-13-2005, 03:22 PM

Most reliable MBC setups use a design that vents a certain amount of boost pressure. Usually they have a spring with a ball bearing. The type of spring determines that amount of boost required to lift the ball. So say you want 15psi and your wastegate is set at 10psi. The ball won't lift till 15psi in which case it allows the full boost pressure to reach the wastegate solenoid.

Mahonroy

12-13-2005, 05:58 PM

Will I have any problems in such that I am venting off metered air, or basically having a little bit of a vacuum leak? Or is it soo minuscule that it won't matter? Since the ball will be closed at idle it should idle nicely. I guess if anything it would just make it run a taste richer (prolly not even noticable)?

So far for the EBC, I found adjustable boost switches for under $20, and I am imagining you can use a solenoid that is intended to be used with water since its soo low pressure? Most air solinoid valves I found were for to be used for like 150psi which is overkill, but for something thats under 20 pounds of boost, it seems that a water one would work (in this case I found some for like only under $10). Also solinoids are usually pretty fast aren't they? Like almost instantanious? I know the ones that use a stepper motor are slower, but that makes sence, you are sacrificing speed for more adjustability, in the sence that you can have it partially open, instead of just open and closed.

On a side note, drove down to denver to take my last final today so had chances to let it loose, intercooler made a huge difference in power! For some reason the clutch was barely slipping on the way down there.

dmdicks

12-14-2005, 10:42 AM

If the water solenoid is air tight at 15psi then it should work fine...

You NEED a wideband O2 on that *****!! I'm 90% certain the Unichip should be handling things fine, but I don't wanna be that 10% wrong if you know what I mean.

Oh, since John is coming down, want me to see if he can bring his laptop and Unichip programmer? :)

Mahonroy

12-14-2005, 02:37 PM

Oh, since John is coming down, want me to see if he can bring his laptop and Unichip programmer? :)

Now that...would be sweet! http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/41.gif

Biff

12-14-2005, 08:32 PM

Mahonroy

12-14-2005, 10:34 PM

Ia m a turbo noob, so bare with me. Shouldn't there be more ventilation with the FMI? Like I said, I ahve no idea how the intercooler works, but I thought it was supposed to have more surface area hitting the air. Enlighten me so that I don't feel like such a moron any longer.

I never have problems with trying to answer questions for people lol :D ...
More ventilation would be better for the intercooler and would make it run more effecient. Air still gets to the intercooler, not as good as it could, but it gets there good enough basically. One nice feature about its location is its right behind the radiator fans, so even when I am idling the fans suck air through the intercooler cooling it down more, compared to if it was mounted lower like most FMIC's, you wouldn't necissarily get that effect. If you page through the book Maximum Boost you will notice how much pictures of intercooler setups are in this identicle location, so I decided it wouldn't be such a bad location. Hell even some of the intercoolers there are mounted horizontal underneith the engine, and some have deflectors to scoop up air into it, you can get pretty creative about it as long as you stay smart with it.

Dave was suggesting that I fabricate somekind of a deflector which will deflect some air into those "hard to reach" places on the intercooler where air may not hit as much as I would like.

KeWLKaT

12-15-2005, 01:14 AM

yeah a deflector is DEFINATELY a must

I hope to find a nother way of doing this when my time comes.

Biff

12-15-2005, 10:53 AM

Ok thanks. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle..."G I JOOOOE!!!" Seriously, I had no idea how that worked. THat does make sense with the fans, and I can see how a deflector would help you out in this situation.

Mahonroy

12-15-2005, 01:43 PM

KeWLKaT by different way of doing it you mean like a sidemount or something?

Also I measured, the intake tubing going to the turbo inlet are all 2.25", and the charge pipes used to be 2.00", the fifth injector harness inlet is 2.00" and its outlet is 2.75" which matches the throttle body pretty closely. When I re-made my charge pipes I made then 2.25", would it be a good idea to get a new 5th injector harness that matches these as well? Or make one? Or will the difference be unnoticable?

dmdicks

12-16-2005, 10:44 AM

The difference will be not noticeable. If anything having the diameter close slightly before entering the intake manifold will help speed it up which is a good thing...

apkraven

12-17-2005, 09:11 AM

hack the bumper down , close the gap with the gutter guard and it'll look damn sexy :D

KeWLKaT

12-17-2005, 08:24 PM

by different way, mahon, I meant to try something with the stock shock absorber.

My IC is shorter, I will see if I will be able to fit it under it, and still manage to have a nice clearance off of the ground. I don't know how different my XD bumper is from yours.

We'll see I guess.... January, first week, is when it's at :)

only1db

12-17-2005, 08:34 PM

with the 01-03 gt's the bottom grill is quite sufficient for air flow to a FMIC...the XD2 obviously have the bumber in the way...

KeWLKaT

12-18-2005, 11:38 AM

yep I had seen that last time i inspected it. still didnt have time to fully take measurements and such.

at worse since im relocating my bat ill just slap the IC in there and remove the headlight

LOL ghetto stuff

cbehage

12-19-2005, 02:15 AM

http://www.mikekemper.com/ul/files/cbehage/IC%20grill2.jpg

http://www.mikekemper.com/ul/files/cbehage/IC%20ABOVE2.jpg

Don't you wish you had this amount of flow.

I was thinking you could cut you grill a little. I was going to chop a pic for you.

Mahonroy

12-19-2005, 09:47 AM

Were you thinking of something like this?

http://mahonroy.home.comcast.net/turbo/interchop.jpg

KeWLKaT

12-19-2005, 09:50 AM

lower

although we have to admit that exposing all of the core is impossible with your huge *** IC LOL

Mahonroy

12-19-2005, 01:31 PM

Making a boost controller and oil catch can today, I thought of a really good idea on how to make one, I will post later on it when its done.

KeWLKaT

12-19-2005, 02:51 PM

Mahonroy

12-19-2005, 09:55 PM

what, by using a pipe and putting caps on it and two nipples ?

:)

and the boost controller... are you going to use it to lower your boost when you want to, or will you be using the ghetto technique of tricking the wastegate and making it open later on, thus boosting more?

No, the oil catch can consists of a tube sealed at both ends, divided into two seperate chambers, but the wall only comes down half way. There is then a nipple at the top of both chambers, and a viewing tube installed on the side (basically just fittings with a clear tube running the entire length of the tube so you can see how full it is, like most oil catch cans out there). The bottom half is then filled with steel wool. So the air enters the can, moves downward through the steel wool, then back up and out the outlet of the can. The steel wool holds the oil down to avoid splashing and to help filter out the oil from the air.

Tricking the wastegate actually is not a ghetto way of doing it, pretty much every boost controller on the market uses this method. The way I made mine was using Dave's sudgestion and using ball berrings and springs, here are some pics:

http://mahonroy.home.comcast.net/turbo/bc1.jpg

http://mahonroy.home.comcast.net/turbo/bc2.jpg

http://mahonroy.home.comcast.net/turbo/bc3.jpg

http://mahonroy.home.comcast.net/turbo/bc4.jpg

Though I am a little confused about this...
Originally here is what I was planning and what was going on in my head was this: So there are two ways to trick the wastegate that I am thinking of (there are more, but just talking about these two), one of them is to splice in a valve that leaks some of the air off to the atmosphere, so for example if I have my wastegate set to 8psi, and I leak off 2psi through a valve to the atmosphere, then I am essentialy going to be boosting 10psi. Then some people splice in the valve right in the line and basically try to make a resistance. I was thinking that this is not a method that will work, because the pressure will soon equalize, so you may spike boost, but then it will bleed off and not hold it. So how I thought using a spring and a ball berring is basically you are making a resistance, but an adrupt one...meaning that whatever boost level you put before its threshold, the ball will stay snug, and 100% no pressure will get past it. But when it does cross the threshold, I was thinking that it will want to equalize, and thats where the 2nd valve comes into play to leak off to the atmosphere, so you are basically setting two seperate boost controllers seperatly, but getting the benifit from each. The wastegate will stay shut untill the very last minuet (spring & ball berring benifit) and the turbo will be able to hold the boost throughout the rpm range (T leak method benifit). So this is how I was thinking it was going to work.

Anyways when I started testing it with my compressor things were working a little differently (and I think it was mainly because I had a wierd air leak for a while but eventually fixed it, though I didn't perform the same tests on it). Also in the beginning I was having a hard time deciding on which spring to use, and thought that the berring wasn't pressing up against the hole enough to make a good seal. So I put in a rubber gasket inbetween the ball berring and the hole and it sealed up perfectly, but now I am worried that instead of being either one of two choices - sealed or not sealed, that now with the rubber gasket its going to be sealed, not sealed, then partially sealed which is everything inbetween. So with that there I am not sure if its going to work properly, not sure, maybe I should try and perform the tests again with the gasket out but with the leak sealed. Anyways let me know what you think of the design, I was stopping by the aluminum factory again tomorrow probably and may pick up some aluminum stock and make a nice boost controller out of it, and if it works good and the tests work out, maybe crank out a few more of them.

dmdicks

12-20-2005, 10:43 AM

I think your on the right track Matt, but I also think your making it way to complicated...I would stick with just the ball spring design and get that working. Venting that small amount of air to atmosphere will not really affect anything performance wise. If you want you can plump the vent back into the air intake to make a closed system like your gonna do with the BOV.

Mahonroy

12-20-2005, 05:39 PM

Right now how I am figuring the valve is functioning now is to basically to vent off the excess pressure, because the ball berring is basically a one way valve, so if there was no vent whatever boost gets in there would stay there, thus keeping my wastegate perminently open. Do you think I should leave the rubber gasket in or take it out? I am going to install it here in a little bit and see what kind of effects I get, though it will not be very usefull untill I get my new clutch anyways which will be my new years present lol.

dmdicks

12-21-2005, 12:35 PM

Matt, if you want you can borrow and take apart my Go-Fast Bits MBC to see how it works. I'm not really driving my car that much because I'm waiting for my xmass present to come so I can install it....cough, cough, twin-charged BetaII, cough, cough... :)

only1db

12-21-2005, 02:52 PM

Mahonroy

12-21-2005, 07:12 PM

Here is how I set it up for the time being, had a hard time deciding on a good place to mount it so just mounted it there for now. Will be making one out of aluminum sometime soon and will put it there in place:

http://mahonroy.home.comcast.net/turbo/bc5.jpg

While I was installing the boost controller, this MF'er got in my house somehow lol:

http://mahonroy.home.comcast.net/turbo/sq1.jpg

But anyways...right now its currently disabled as there really isn't any sence in setting it right now as its going to just make my clutch slip worse, plus I don't have a BOV installed yet either, but its ready when I need it.

Matt, if you want you can borrow and take apart my Go-Fast Bits MBC to see how it works. I'm not really driving my car that much because I'm waiting for my xmass present to come so I can install it....cough, cough, twin-charged BetaII, cough, cough... :)

Yeah would deffinetly like to check out your MBC and I could see how tough the spring is, ball berring size, etc.

Damn twin-charged, thats going to be a sweet setup! Are you going to put in the spare engine w/ tigerlilly pistons for the setup or put it on your current engine now for the time being? If u need any help let me know I'd be glad to see it and help out.

Mahonroy

12-23-2005, 04:40 PM

On a side note about exhaust I had a quick question. Normally the stock exhaust had a flex pipe in it, the custome exhaust that was made for me has no flex pipe, and whenever I go over bumps the exhaust hits the rear axle. Also under hard acceleration the exhaust seems like its resting on the rear axle and vivbrates (I don't know for sure as I can't see back there, but thats what it feels like is going on). I was looking under the car and I can see where the exhaust is smacking against the rear axle and it seems that I can modify one of the hangers to prevent it from hitting the axle. But it made me wonder if I should pick up a 2.5 inch flex pipe and weld it into the exhaust system, I don't know what I should do about it, or is it fine if I can fix the hanger? Or hell even stiffer motor mounts which would cause the engine not to flex so much, which I guess is something I will be needing soon anyways.

pjc6281

12-23-2005, 05:24 PM

only1db

12-23-2005, 07:12 PM

twin charged??? um...why??

yeah the exhaust NEEDS a flex pipe!! if not you could possibly rip the exhaust out of the rubber hangers...that would sucK!

Mahonroy

12-23-2005, 09:13 PM

Why would the exhaust shop make the exhaust without even mentioning this step? (the flex pipe) So how it is now the downpipe comes off from the turbo and curves underneith a little bit, then there is a flange. From there it connects to a tube which runs to the cat, then shortly after another flange. (This is where I made the test pipe to fit), then after that it goes towards the back to another flange, then from there it hops over the axle and goes to the muffler. So I should get a flex pipe, have that connect directly to the downpipe, then have the cat (so will have to shorten the cat pipe, as well as the test pipe) then keep it the same from there on back? Is there any performance loss with a flex section? Lastly, what should I look for when buying a flex section, just go to a local muffler shop and buy one off them? My entire exhaust is stainless steel so I should prolly try and find a stainless steel flex section also? Thanks again appreatiate it!

twin charged??? um...why??
Mostly to get the best of both worlds right? Get all the torque off the line with the supercharger, then get all the top end power off the turbo, so with this setup you can run a fairly larger turbo with it as you have the supercharger taking care of the lower RPM's.

Mahonroy

12-25-2005, 03:51 PM

Something like this work perfectly?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-5-x-8-Exhaust-Flex-Pipe-Tube-SS_W0QQitemZ8023174783QQcategoryZ33633QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem

P.s. merry christmas! Thought I'd mess around on the computer while I wait for mom and g/f to get ready to go to the springs to celebrate lol

only1db

12-25-2005, 10:12 PM

Why would the exhaust shop make the exhaust without even mentioning this step? (the flex pipe) So how it is now the downpipe comes off from the turbo and curves underneith a little bit, then there is a flange. From there it connects to a tube which runs to the cat, then shortly after another flange. (This is where I made the test pipe to fit), then after that it goes towards the back to another flange, then from there it hops over the axle and goes to the muffler. So I should get a flex pipe, have that connect directly to the downpipe, then have the cat (so will have to shorten the cat pipe, as well as the test pipe) then keep it the same from there on back? Is there any performance loss with a flex section? Lastly, what should I look for when buying a flex section, just go to a local muffler shop and buy one off them? My entire exhaust is stainless steel so I should prolly try and find a stainless steel flex section also? Thanks again appreatiate it!

Mostly to get the best of both worlds right? Get all the torque off the line with the supercharger, then get all the top end power off the turbo, so with this setup you can run a fairly larger turbo with it as you have the supercharger taking care of the lower RPM's.

for some reason i was thinking of twin turbo....but still a nicely fitted turbo will get you plenty of torque down low

Mahonroy

12-26-2005, 01:02 AM

for some reason i was thinking of twin turbo....but still a nicely fitted turbo will get you plenty of torque down low

But thats the thing, take mine for example, its a fairly small turbo and has lots of torque and power down low, but it will peak efficency at around 15psi, and then it pretty much platous on how much power I can make, there would be no way I could get 500whp out of it for example. But if I for example slapped a huge turbo in there, I would have no low end torque or power, but once that turbo spooled up sure I could prolly get hundreds of hp out of it. Look at that AMS evo 8 for example, 2 liter (well 2.3 liter because of stroker kit) making 826 hp, the turbo doesn't even spool up untill like after the stock redline, leaving no power for low end, but once it gets going it can push a lot of air. Thats what the supercharger is there for, slap a huge turbo there, or even a normal sized one, but you will have a lot of torque and power down low.

only1db

12-26-2005, 01:29 PM

well i suppose but there is a limit to how fast you can make something efficently....could you have a 500 + hp xd or tib...yeah...but hooking up with be hard as hell!! there is a time a place i guess for everything

Mahonroy

01-17-2006, 05:06 PM

Alright so finally got just about everything I need for my weekend project (but probably will start on it tomorrow lol):

http://www.jattus.com/performance/misc1.jpg

Just missing 4-5 feet of 2.25" aluminized steel, red silicone vacuum line for the blow off valve, and the grounding stuff to come in, then I am gtg.

I had a question though: the throwout berring that I recieved, the center part of it is noticably off center:

http://www.jattus.com/performance/misc2.jpg

The gap at "A" is about 1mm wide, while the gap at "B" is about 3mm wide. Is it supposed to be like this, and if not will I run into any problems with it like this do you think?

Anyways I'll keep posting the progress, after this project is all good to go (hopefully by the end of the weekend) I am going to schedule a dyno appointment to see how much it puts down. And will let you all know if anyone is interested.

KeWLKaT

01-17-2006, 05:25 PM

nice.

as for the TOB, not sure, i didnt even notice that on mine.

Mahonroy

01-17-2006, 07:06 PM

Well, got 5 feet of 2.25" tubing for the charge pipes, but am having problems locating 2.75" tubing for the intake into the turbo that I am planning on making. Also having a hard time finding 1.25" OD (precisely 1 5/16" OD but 1.25 will work good enough) steel tubing for the recirculation that needs to be welded to the intake, as well as the 0.25" - 0.50" OD tubing I need to weld to the intake for the breather. If anyone has any ideas on where I can get this stuff let me know :D I am sure I could find a place through the internet and order it, but I don't want to wait for it lol. Also if anyone knows where I can get red silicone or equivelent vacuum line for a blow off valve, I checked Napa, Checkers, Autozone, and Street Concepts for this and noone had it. Appreatiate any help.

only1db

01-18-2006, 12:17 PM

breather?? maybe i'm thinking of something else but you are going to make a catch can right??? for the recirculating oil???

the oil can acutally decrease the octane of the fuel....and could than cause pre det...and we all know where that leads us!

Mahonroy

01-18-2006, 12:37 PM

Yeah soon enough there will be a catch can spliced inbetween the breather, I had another thread on how I was making the catch can.

only1db

01-18-2006, 01:05 PM

ah ok...must of missed that one

Mahonroy

01-19-2006, 03:32 AM

Finally got the old clutch out and the old throw out berring looked identicle, it was off center as well so its all good. Installed the new clutch just working on getting the tranny back in the car lol. Will post pics later...

KeWLKaT

01-19-2006, 04:05 AM

Read my post.

Also, dont forget, the TOB goes in the forks, not on the P/P, it just gets snapped on when you put the bellhousing back together.

Our trannies are PULL TYPES, lets not forget that :)

Mahonroy

01-19-2006, 09:17 PM

Almost got the tranny back in...no luck with the 2.75" OD aluminized steel. I think I am just going to have to order it, I have looked around a little bit with no luck, does ANYONE know of a place where I can order some 2.75" OD aluminized steel? (I may even go with stainless if I have to, but would rather not) I only really need like 3-4 feet max... I found a place that could sell me 2.75" OD mild steel, but I have to buy it in 10 feet sections, 7-8 bucks a foot, and then 70 bucks for shipping and handling because it has to come on a truck lol 140 bucks for only needing 3 feet of it = not worth it.

st_anger5532

01-20-2006, 01:30 AM

ill ask around here since im semi close to you. if i find some i can drive it up to you to save shipping. but yea give me a day or 2. if not ok.

Mahonroy

01-20-2006, 10:56 AM

Thanks a lot appreatiate it...so far found a place where I can order some mild steel stuff: http://www.headersbyed.com/straight.htm

Unfortunetly its not aluminized so I am worrying if I go with this that it will end up rusting...what do you guys think? I will probably in the near future put somekind of coating on the outside of the pipes (weather it be high temperature paint, or powder coating, to protect the pipes from oxidation) but what about the inside of the pipes? Should I keep looking to see if I can find this same stuff in aluminized pipes? Exhaust shops been telling me that its an oddball size, but something like GM uses 2.75 exhausts so if I can find a place like that, they would probably have it in aluminized as well...

dmdicks

01-20-2006, 11:03 AM

Matt, you could do what I did and buy a cheap 3" cold air intake and then adapt it to fit the turbo location. Wasn't hard at all...plus I know some places online sell the for less than 60 bux shipped..

Mahonroy

01-20-2006, 11:16 AM

The only reason why I was thinking 2.75" was because thats the OD of my MAF sensor...I had a 2.75" cold air intake w/ cone filter on my car before I turboed it...but I gave it to my buddy for his 2001 wolfsburg jetta 1.8t (wish I didn't give it to him now lol) yeah it was a 94-97 accord cold air intake, got it for like 50-60 bucks shipped...I would need to weld the recirculation fitting to it though but I guess that wouldn't be too much of a problem...

EDIT:

Ok I found a solution, I remembered this aluminum warehouse that I was originally looking for 2.25" pipes to make charge pipes with - they only had it but too thick of a wall for charge pipes (1/8 inch), so after I couldn't find the aluminum I just decided to go with aluminized steel for the charge pipes...anyways I called them and they have 2.75" OD 6061 aluminum .065 or .060 wall thickness which is perfect, so I am just going to cruise down there and pick up 4 feet of it (extra foot to practice welding on before I start with the real thing) and the good thing about this place is its dirt cheap, they sell the aluminum by the weight, so will also pick up some aluminum for the breather nipple as well as the recirculation tube.

dmdicks

01-20-2006, 12:27 PM

Nice! How cheap is cheap? I might need some help redoing my piping for the twin-charged setup... :)

Mahonroy

01-24-2006, 02:02 AM

They sell it to you by the pound, I got like 4 feet of .065 wall thickness 2.75" diameter 6061 aluminum for like 15 bucks, thats cheaper than aluminized steel.

Side note, got the clutch swapped (will post pics soon) new clutch is awsome! Also rigged up the BOV (ssqv) temporarily because I was itching to check it out, that thing sounds sweet, sounds really similar to a greddy type s BOV, but sounds almost identicle to this: http://www.935motorsports.com/media05/mark7m001.mp3 or this http://www.935motorsports.com/media05/SSQVJZA80.wmv kind of inbetween...
Something I noticed though, is that my car uses a MAF sensor and I don't have it recirculating, its just blowing off right in my engine bay and I have had no performance issues yet (granted I haven't fully boosted yet as I am still breaking in the clutch, maybe have gone like 50% throttle at most so far) I was worried that it would bog down inbetween shifts, so now I am kind of wondering if I should recirculate this thing at all or not...

Just need to finish up new charge pipes and motor mounts and will be good to go (trying to figure out a good way to make the 5th injector harness into the mandrel bend going into the throttle body) then will be off to the dyno.

cbehage

01-24-2006, 02:22 AM

only1db

01-24-2006, 02:10 PM

um...its getting more than side mounts and the s4 is pretty powerful so are the gst/x who also use a side mount....is that as much air flow as it could be no...but it works

Mahonroy

01-24-2006, 02:37 PM

You are getting almost no air flow to the intercooler. Time to cut or go aftermarket.

Should drive it like the pic with out the bumper.

I have an alpine kit with an apex twin chamber bov. It vent to the atmosphere. It doesn't give me any problems. Are you going to get a vacuum manifol. I just got a golden eagle from ebay.

I am currently driving it with no bumper, the intercooler and air filter are almost completely exposed for the time being. I actually make vacuum manifolds, so deffinetly have one installed, http://www.jattus.com/Performance/vacuum.htm

The way the bumper is when its installed seems like air wouldn't go through the intercooler very good but it actually does, I hardly notice a difference at all with or without the intercooler...

cbehage

01-24-2006, 03:08 PM

Thats right man. I thought it was you.

They look nice. I think you inspired me to get a vacuum manifold.

can I buy some of the vacuum manifold fittings for the ports on the manifold?

I cut mine up to get some more flow. Still going to cut some more out.
http://www.mikekemper.com/ul/files/cbehage/IC%20grill2.jpg

yamaha

01-24-2006, 03:36 PM

Mahonroy,

How long did it take for you to install your decompression plate, also, did you use the stock head bolts or buy new ones?

Cypher

01-24-2006, 03:44 PM

i'd say it shouldn't take more than 2 hours or so... than again when i took apart the engine it was out of hte car lol

Mahonroy

01-25-2006, 01:12 AM

can I buy some of the vacuum manifold fittings for the ports on the manifold?
Sure np, just send me a PM or something letting me know which ones you need.

Mahonroy,

How long did it take for you to install your decompression plate, also, did you use the stock head bolts or buy new ones?

I would say it took me a day or two to do the decompression plate (I didn't just do the decompression plate, I installed everything at once) but that was the first time I did something like that and I was being super carefull, plus I prolly spent like 2 hours cleaning off the head and block making sure it was perfect, and another couple hours sanding the head gasket to make sure there were no scratches in it. Dave Dickson had a set of new head gasket bolts that he gave me, I held one of the old head bolts next to a new one and the old one was prolly stretched by a mm or 2, I deffinetly recommend getting new head bolts and not to re-use the old ones.

Mahonroy

02-04-2006, 05:21 PM

Alright finally finished up I have lots of pics!

Clutch Pics:
http://www.jattus.com/Performance/s1.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/s2.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/s3.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/s4.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/s5.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/s6.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/s7.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/s8.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/s9.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/s10.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/s11.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/s12.jpg

Urethane Motor Mount Pics:
http://www.jattus.com/Performance/t1.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/t2.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/t3.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/t4.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/t5.jpg

New Charge Pipe Setup Pics:
http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u1.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u2.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u3.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u4.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u5.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u6.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u7.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u8.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u9.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u10.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u11.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u12.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u13.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u14.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u15.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u16.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u17.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u18.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u19.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/u20.jpg

Go here to see the pics with comments next to them on my site: http://www.jattus.com/Performance/elantra.htm

Also welded in flex section.

Everything went together pretty nicely and the car pulls hard (been kind of grandma driving it around to break the clutch in, though cruising along in 1st gear and give it less than 50% throttle the tires break loose).

The motor mounts are awsome btw! I was expecting the car to be shaking like crazy at idle and its no problem at all.

I am experiencing some problems though...
1. the car is kind of idling like **** and I have no idea why, I have bean checking for vacuum leaks, leaks in the intake and in the charge pipes and found nothing, I was even trying to use smoke to see if I could see where it weant, still nothing... (basically what it does is if I push the clutch in the revs go down to like 1000 then it revs up to 2000 then back down to 1000 then up to 2000, etc. at about 1 second intervals) I had this problem before and I found a leak in a vacuum line, fixed it and the idle problem was fixed perfectly, though I can't find a leak at all yet.

2. Ever since I had the alpine turbo kit when the car is idling and I tap on the throttle with my foot it kind of bogs down...originally it was suggested that my intake pipe may be too small (at 2.25 inch diameter) so when I made my new intake pipe out of aluminum I made it 2.75 inch diameter, wich btw helped a LOT for performance, but still if I tap on the throttle it bogs down the same...maybe a unichip tunning thing or something I don't know (if I had to live with it its really not that big of a deal)...

3. Now for my big problem lol...was driving on the highway in 3rd gear, floored it, at somewhere around 5000 rpm's the car all of the sudden bogged down pretty bad, it felt like I hit the rev limiter which I oviously did not (my friend who was with me in the car said that it was detonation, but it didn't sound metalic at all to me, I don't know) if you ever watch those hyundai videos that kdmguy had been posting of the cars on dynos the sounds the cars make when they hit the rev limiter is kind of what it sounded like. But like I said it was pretty adrupt, was getting pushed into the back of my seat then all of the sudden I get pushed forward. This can be a number of things though I don't know. When that happened I looked over at my boost gauge and it had apparently creaped up to about 14-15psi so its possible there wasn't enough mapping on the unichip and when it ran out it just ran lean. My other concern is that the 5th injector mount that I made isn't operating very good. Where the injector screws in to the intake tube there is a little bit of a lip at the end of the injector mount (look at one of the pics I posted and you will see what I am talking about hopefully) and I was afraid that the fuel wouldn't spray as even as it should with that lip there, like it would catch onto the lip and mess the spray up...I showed everyone though and everyone was like "oh yeah thats perfect, that will deffinetly work" so I don't know thats my other thing I was thinking is that the 5th injector isn't spraying fuel in properly. Who knows maybe its just running rediculously rich.

4. Not really a big issue here, but when I get some boost going and I push in the clutch to open the BOV and continue to hold down the clutch the car deffinetly does stall because with the MAF sensor and dumping out metered air, but like I said if you are racing for example and are shifting quick the BOV is only opened for a short amount of time and there won't be a problem its only when you hold in the clutch and dump out a lot of air through the BOV. So I may weld on the recirculation fitting and try that out, hope it doesn't change the sound too much because it sounds awsome right now!

So yeah let me know what you guys think and if you have any advice or comments let me know! :D

EDIT:
Also forgot, I was with some buddies digging around in this local junkyard and I found a wrecked 2003 elantra sitting there, only thing missing from the engine was the exhaust manifold, so I am considering going over today and taking the valve cover, intake manifold, throttle body, and maybe even the whole damn engine incase something terrible happens to mine. My question is do you know if any of this 2003 beta II engine stuff is compatable with my 2004 beta II engine? I am assuming it is but would like a second oppinion as well, thanks! Also found a chrystler with a turbo still intact, I may need to get that as well as they would only charge me 20 bucks for it lol and its a pretty decent sized one too.

05xd

02-04-2006, 05:38 PM

I havent been looking thru this thread so im goin to ask a few questions.What kind of power are you expecting to get,what fuel pump are you using,what size injectors and do you still have the cvvt operating?Make sure you have enough fuel goin to this engine man or it will spell disaster for sure
After reading your edit,you should swap the cvvt head for the non cvvt head and get the ecm from the 03 model.Everyone has said that the cvvt does not like high boost applications.

Mahonroy

02-04-2006, 05:58 PM

I am looking to get around 250 whp. I am using the stock fuel pump right now with 5x 290cc injectors. Still have the cvvt opperating. I haven't really seen anything credible on why I should need to disconnect the cvvt, it seems like it should work just fine, and the unichip does a good job with the timing as well.

05xd

02-04-2006, 06:02 PM

You might not be getting enough fuel with the stock pump.Maybe you should look into getting one.Here is a 190lph one on ebay.Evan told me about this one.I also need to purchase one myself

190 lph pump (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Walbro-Fuel-Pump-GSS-250-190-LPH-Acura-Integra-1994-99_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6778QQitemZ802474477 8QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V)

dmdicks

02-04-2006, 06:35 PM

Hey Matt. You need to borrow my wideband setup so we can really see what is going on. One thing you might also check is the coil pack connections. Bruce from nt.com was having all kinds of problems and it turns out one of his coil pack connections wasn't making a good connection and causing misfires.
Did you disconnect anything electrical when doing your clutch? The high idle might possibly be to much tension on either the throttle cable or cruise cable.

KeWLKaT

02-04-2006, 07:52 PM

damn... i dont know why, but this sounds like a speed sensor problem (on the tranny_ like evan used to have. Did you maybe forget to reconnect it? Or maybe it broke with all those manipulations with the tranny?

GodisintheTV

02-05-2006, 12:20 AM

im with kewl i think it either a speed sensor or maybe check the idle sensor, when my car was idling strange and bogging like yours that was the problem, i got it changed under warrenty. good luck man.

Keyan

02-05-2006, 12:46 AM

The 2003 engine will only be compatable if it has the CVVT. Check for it. If it has it you are compatable my friend :)

Oh, and it might be idling like **** because your MAF sensor might need to be cleaned. Especially because you're using an oiled K&N filter right? The oils can **** it up. Clean that maf!

Mahonroy

02-06-2006, 02:15 AM

Hey thanks for the replies! Yeah I am deffinetly interested in borrowing the wideband to see whats going on. I didn't really have to disconnect all that much stuff, maybe a couple of wire harnesses but I re-connected all of them, I will deffinetly double check them though. It doesn't idle like that all the time, I'd say like 80% of the lights I stop at it does idle funny like that though. If the speed sensor was disconnected my speedometer would not function properly right? I was also considering if my idle air controll was malfunctioning, I wish there was a way for me to find out. The dirty maf sensor may also be playing a role in it...lol soo many possible variables!

dmdicks

02-06-2006, 10:34 AM

I would double check your MAF. The K&N filters are very succeptable to over oiling. Too much oil and some will leak through the cotton which could foul up the MAF wire causing all kinds of problems. I've only cleaned my filter once in the 3yrs I've had it. They tend to actually work better dirty and only need cleaning about every 20k miles.

Mahonroy

02-07-2006, 08:58 PM

Well, borrowed an OBD2 reader today and got the codes off from the CEL, I have like 8 codes on!

0038 - H02S2 HTR (B1) - I take it this is my second o2 sensor signal is not in the correct range (which makes sence since there is no cat)
0136 - Downstr Heated Oxygen Sensor circuit fault - Bank No. 1. - same reason as above
0501 - Vehicle Speed Sensor fault.
0301 - CYL 1 MISFIRE
0303 - CYL 3 MISFIRE
0304 - CYL 4 MISFIRE - I have also found this code to mean the the knock sensor is open or shorted, so unsure on this one...
0302 - CYL 2 MISFIRE
0300 - MULTI CYL MISFIRE

So...lol...I am hopeing that if I plug in the spark plug non fouler into the o2 sensor that it will fix the top 2 codes...hopefully the vehicle speed sensor on the tranny is just simply unplugged which will fix that code and the goofy idling...but the misfire/knocking well, not too sure on that one, deffinetly need to borrow the wideband setup and see whats up, or go through my mapping on the unichip and make sure its what I believe it to be lol.

EDIT: Found this as well.

LEAN MISFIRE

A condition caused by an air/fuel mixture that is too lean to sustain combustion. Lean misfire causes one or more cylinders to pass unburned fuel into the exhaust system causing a big increase in hydrocarbon (HC) emissions. Symptoms include a rough idle and hesitation or stumble on acceleration. Lean misfire is often caused by vacuum leaks or an EGR valve that's stuck open.

Sounds just like my problem lol I am willing to bet that its just running lean...

yamaha

02-07-2006, 09:01 PM

Damn man, thats alot of fault codes, good luck to you!

KeWLKaT

02-08-2006, 01:51 AM

0501 - Vehicle Speed Sensor fault.
YES! I knew it! Do I get a cookie? :)

Good luck man

dmdicks

02-09-2006, 11:16 AM

Good News! Matt came over last night and we were able to tweak some settings and most of his performance problems are gone! The only thing left is his wavering idle of which I'm 99% sure he has a vaccum leak somewhere. Otherwise he's boosting a solid 13psi and his lantra now hauls some serious a**!!

Estopatitiana

02-09-2006, 12:17 PM

dang that is awesome..im betting hes around 220-240 whp? find a track and a dyno!!!

Mahonroy

02-14-2006, 02:13 PM

So how would a vehicle speed sensor cause the engine to idle abnormally? Seems my speedometer would not function correctly right? (but my speedometer works just fine...hmmm.....) Is there any other things that this malfunction could cause? Such as a incorrect rev limiter, etc...?

KeWLKaT

02-14-2006, 03:33 PM

Nononon

The speed sensor is located on the tranny, if you remember, it's the plug that faces towards the firewall, somewhere between the starter and the tranny cable linkage.

I don't know exactly what it does, but I am guessing it does affect your rpm readings on the tranny side (not the crank basically).

Mahonroy

02-14-2006, 03:54 PM

Yeah I was able to locate it off my shop manual for my car...it appears to be connected also so I don't know wtf do to about that lol I can't see how it could have been damaged either...(I am guessing if it was damaged, in order to replace it the tranny would have to be removed again?)

KeWLKaT

02-14-2006, 08:04 PM

nope it doesnt, i know evan replaced it himself and he cant remove the tranny :P

Cypher

02-14-2006, 08:37 PM

evan damaged his with his little brake fiasco and i believe sean found him a new sensor off of a junked xd. i thought the speed sensor was located on the passenger side behind the wheel?

Keyan

02-14-2006, 08:39 PM

evan damaged his with his little brake fiasco and i believe sean found him a new sensor off of a junked xd. i thought the speed sensor was located on the passenger side behind the wheel?

The one on the brake rotor shield is for ABS, the one on the tranny is for everything else. I think

Cypher

02-14-2006, 08:44 PM

The sensor gets the signal from the tone ring on the axle.Make sure there is not a crack on the tone ring itself.
where is that on the axle?
on the end,close to where it sits in the knuckle

AND CYPHER WINS!~!!!

only1db

02-14-2006, 10:53 PM

05xd

02-14-2006, 11:01 PM

the one on the knuckle is for the ABS/TCS...it only senses spin...not speed in a measurable amount.

the speed sensor is in the tranny...this is also the part that needs to be replaced if you install the quife LSD...you use a mitsu speed sensor...

sorry cypher....
The ecm gets it speed info from the wheel speed sensor on the right front knuckle.The gear on the tranny is for the speedometer.All models have it,even the ones without abs/tcs

only1db

02-14-2006, 11:04 PM

i just learned something....so even the ones that dont have ABS will have that sensor on the passenger knuckle?

05xd

02-14-2006, 11:04 PM

Yes sir

only1db

02-14-2006, 11:06 PM

:bowdown: see that...you learn something new everyday... :rolleyes:

yamaha

02-14-2006, 11:34 PM

Speed sensor on the tranny and knuckle, Evan had to replace the one on the knickle even though he doesn't have ABS.

KeWLKaT

02-15-2006, 12:53 AM

Ok so then it might be the one on the kuckle, or the tranny altogether lol

Mahonroy

02-15-2006, 03:13 AM

Damn so worst case scenereo I can go to that junkyard I'v been pulling stuff off and grab tha speed sensor off that 03 elantra they had there and swap them?

Cypher

02-15-2006, 03:30 AM

Hah! :)

yamaha

02-15-2006, 09:08 AM

Damn so worst case scenereo I can go to that junkyard I'v been pulling stuff off and grab tha speed sensor off that 03 elantra they had there and swap them?

The speed sensor is pressed into the knuckle, you would have to take the whole knuckle.

dmdicks

02-15-2006, 11:13 AM

Hey Matt, I was thinking about your problem the other night. Could the problem also be related to your TPS sensor? I've read on boards people having problems like yours and it turned out to be a bad TPS sensor. If you want to try it out you can have the sensor off that extra Throttle Body in my garage.

Mahonroy

02-15-2006, 04:24 PM

Was searching through old posts and found one on evans issue:
"so while in pittsburgh this weekend, i start having the issue with the speed sensor again. cant go past 5100rpms."

That seems like one of my identicle problems (its not all the time, but it does happen frequently), and since I have a corresponding CEL code as well, I probably need to try and get that fixed, though I don't know if this is causing my idle to have issues, it could be other things such as a TPS sensor, I wish I had the obd-II reader I could check all of this stuff...

I was a little confused though when you guys were refering to a whole "knuckle" what kind of job am I looking at to get the speed sensor replaced, and will one off an 03 work? Thanks again for the help appreatiate it!

yamaha

02-15-2006, 04:28 PM

The speed sensor is pressed into the knuckle on the passenger side front. I know when Evan went to get it replaced, that hard to torch and hammer it out. I would suggest getting the whole knuckle if you can, or just taking it to the Hyundai dealer. Soon after Evan had his replaced he was having problems with it. Sometimes he would get a cell for it, other times he wouldn't.

Mahonroy

02-23-2006, 05:26 PM

Well, I am a little confused about something so I was wondering if you guys could chime in on this...originally I was under the impression that this vehicle speed sensor was the sensor thats pluged into the tranny right next to the starter motor (couple inches towards the drivers side of the starter motor, ontop of the tranny). After reading through hmaservice.com articles I found some ways to diagnose what the issue is with the speed sensor but now I am thinking that the sensor I was originally thinking is not the sensor throwing the code. The code is p0501 and they have a specific diagnosis for that code for checking the sensor to see whats wrong, and now I am under the impression that there is somekind of a sensor near the wheels now? Some articles I read it makes me under the impression that you only have these sensors if you have ABS brakes, which I do not so I am a little confused, would someone be able to help me locate the vehicle speed sensor that would be throwing this code? (btw my speedometer works just fine, so I am thinking that the sensor on the tranny that I thought was the sensor is maybe just for the speedometer?) Also I would probably have no problem locating this sensor if the pictures would come up on hmaservice lol but they aren't working for me for some reason on the p0501 code...