Wal-Mart/FRAM Oil Filter [Archive] - ElantraXD.com - Dedicated to the true Elantra Enthusiast

goldcroat

12-08-2005, 03:46 PM

Just went out this morning to get my check from work. Then I decided, well, I guess I should go get an oil change. So I go to my local Wal-Mart and there's a two-and-a-half hour wait.

So I'm like screw this and I go to another Wal-Mart that's further away. They say that they don't have any oil filters on hand for the XD, but if I go buy one at the Meijer across the street, that they'll install it. He says something about a 9000-series FRAM oil-filter. I didn't really pay attention at that point.

So I go across the street and see that there are only 9000-series oil-filters for trucks. The 9000 series oil-filter for the XD isn't there; there isn't even a place for it. So I look in the catalog and look up the Tiburon 2.0 liter. It says that it uses the 6607 oil-filter. Then I remember that I keep one in the spare-tire area so I don't lose it. This piece was the 6607 (coincidence? NO).

So I head back to the Wal-Mart (this one was a supercenter) and tell the guy that it's in the passenger seat and to gimme a call on the PA when he's done.

I get called back a half-hour later and the guy explains to me why he won't install this 6607 filter. He says that there have been cases of 6607 filters BLOWING OFF of the engine. I'm thinking in my head what a load of ****, I've gone 30k miles using 6607 filters. He then asks me if I found any of the 9688 oil fitlers and I was like, "No, they didn't have any". He says that FRAM changed the spec. and it seems that nobody has this filter. So, I'm like **** this and blow the popsicle stand.

I go to a third Wal-Mart ready to tear off the next guy's head. Thank god, I looked in the automotive department first and located this special *** 9688 oil filter. THERE WERE EIGHT OF THEM. Pretty good for nobody having them. I bring it with me when I request the service.

This saga is finally completed FIVE HOURS after I started, for a 15 minute OIL CHANGE.

evan938

12-08-2005, 03:55 PM

this just proves that 30 min oil change in your driveway for 20$ in parts > *

goldcroat

12-08-2005, 03:58 PM

Yeah, but it was like 19 degrees outside and I didn't wanna freeze my *** off doing an oil change when I can pay for some guy in a heated garage $20 bucks.

evan938

12-08-2005, 04:06 PM

bleh. im about to do mine in my driveway soon here in gahanna.. jeans and a sweatshirt...i can stick it out for 30 min

goldcroat

12-08-2005, 04:09 PM

GL, Hope sub-freezing ground doesn't bother you.

FordFasteRR

12-08-2005, 04:23 PM

I still would not have used the damn fram or any fram derivative for that matter... lol

Doohickie

12-08-2005, 04:31 PM

Personally, I think that while the Wal-Mart should have known their own stock better, they were pretty damned smart in not wanting to put a Fram filter on your car. If you look around on this and other forums, you can see that Fram filters are associated with a lot of Elantra engine issues (and I think Fram is the worst of the bunch in this respect). Hyundai even has a TSB out on aftermarket oil filters causing problems on Elantras.

Bottom line: Stay away from Fram if you love your Elantra.

goldcroat

12-08-2005, 04:57 PM

Apparently this new oil filter is higher capacity and designed to solve the problems with the earlier 6077 oil filter. We'll just see if I develop any problems.

bikerPA

12-08-2005, 05:10 PM

Personally, I think that while the Wal-Mart should have known their own stock better, they were pretty damned smart in not wanting to put a Fram filter on your car.
I'll second that. Any shop that will look beyond the quick buck towards customer satisfaction down the road, even if they are Wal-Mart, deserves some respect. Props to them, and your engine will last longer for it.

Got a purolator on my coffee table waiting for 60° temperatures and daylight on Saturday to install. :D

evan938

12-08-2005, 05:19 PM

I have used bosch filters since i started changing my oil myself (probably done 10-15 now) and never had a problem with them. 6$ each

Doohickie

12-08-2005, 05:30 PM

You can get the OEM filter for about that price. Then there's no way they can say it was filter if you have a problem.

DAILLESTWUN

12-08-2005, 05:57 PM

Apparently this new oil filter is higher capacity and designed to solve the problems with the earlier 6077 oil filter. We'll just see if I develop any problems.

Still not a smart thing to do...the whole "we'll just see" thing might cost you your engine as well as a few hundred to a thousand dollars. If I were you i'd go change that Filter ASAP... That's nothing to mess around with. I too have heard all over different forums that Fram is the worst filter you can put on your car...

BobMs_wht2k2

12-08-2005, 06:28 PM

Dust

12-08-2005, 06:38 PM

Sorry guys, but I can't believe all of this, "the OEM is the only filter that won't blow up your engine". Has anyone cut an OEM up and posted pics. I would like to know who makes it and compare it to the many comparable thread size filters that I have seen. I just don't see how a filter with generic BPV settings and a generic, probably not even silicon ADBV can be the cure for cancer.

hyunelan2

12-08-2005, 06:39 PM

It is one of the worst. Considering I just bought 2 OEM filters for 4.35 each at lunch, there's no way in hell I'd put anything less on it. This way if I through a rod through the block it's their dime, not mine.

BTW, why do so many people try and save a dollar when they KNOW there is a very good chance it'll cost them a thousand? You'll spend 500 on speakers, but won't spend 6 bucks on a filter? I guess I just don't understand.

Amen!

The only thing that's ever been on my car, and ever will be on my car, is OEM. Even if I didn't get $6.95 oil changes for the life of the car (nice dealer), I would still only put OEM on it, for the reasons mentioned above.

BobMs_wht2k2

12-08-2005, 06:53 PM

http://users4.ev1.net/~nlhoyt/oil/sth2.JPG

There's a whole debate and good infor here:
http://www.elantraclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1409

If it helps, they were all manufactured in South Korea if I remember correctly. But it has been a while since I worked for them. Things may have changed.

goldcroat

12-08-2005, 06:55 PM

Still not a smart thing to do...the whole "we'll just see" thing might cost you your engine as well as a few hundred to a thousand dollars. If I were you i'd go change that Filter ASAP... That's nothing to mess around with. I too have heard all over different forums that Fram is the worst filter you can put on your car...

Your thoughtfulness is touching, but I've been fine with the SuperTech 6607 for almost 30k miles. I don't do racing or anything of that sort, this is just a daily driver, so I think there shouldn't be a problem when it comes to the filter, especially if FRAM decides to update the style to 'higher capacity'.

BobMs_wht2k2

12-08-2005, 06:58 PM

We've seen others say the exact same thing. They also had to replace the engine. Hey, you wanna save a couple bucks now, go for it. When it screws you and Hyundai says you're on your own, I'll even try to keep from saying "I told you so", but don't count on it.

Good luck. It's obvious our help is not needed or appreciated here.

goldcroat

12-08-2005, 07:04 PM

Dust

12-08-2005, 07:48 PM

So 1/3 the filter for 1/5 the price. Hmm, sounds good. I guess I will have to cut open my current ST 7317 and post pics when I get home.

jh0n

12-08-2005, 07:58 PM

I buy the Hyundai filter off the dealer, I even get a sump plug washer off them and then do the oil change myself. I use Hyundai parts, it`s cheap insurance for the warrantee`s sake... Mind you weather would rarely play a part in my oil changes in this neck of the woods..

2loud2k2xd

12-08-2005, 08:08 PM

this is funny. 90% of all my oil changes are done by a guy i race with at WAL-MART. i bring in my own oil (mobile1), and pay 10.00 for the labor. they supply the crush washer and filter. 71k and spraying nitrous religiously and NO probs. :D

i need all the paper work for my remaining 100k power train warranty. i dont want them to give me any ish if i do my own oil changes, they might say that it had to be done by a liscensed mechanic...wait, i have a michigan state techs number, so i am licensed. oops, time to do my own now.

only1db

12-08-2005, 08:11 PM

the only filter i use is a K&N...

why would you go to three different walmarts!! that is a waste of time...my time is more precious than that.

it takes me 15 min in my driveway....i love the cold!! i will do it...i dont trust anybody else...they always screw it up...how is beyond me but they do!

ilanpro

12-08-2005, 10:36 PM

All i am using anymore is OEM

Keyan

12-08-2005, 10:58 PM

All i am using anymore is OEM

I -would- use OEM but the dealership chargered me 7.33 for a filter and crush washer.

7.33!!!

PureOne for me. :)

Doohickie

12-08-2005, 11:31 PM

$7.33 still isn't that bad. I paid 8-something for my first filter & gasket (although he was nice and gave me three gaskets); I got my second one at a different dealer and it came to 6-something and he threw the gasket in for free. I have a few extra gaskets layin' around. So I got that goin' for me.

Dust

12-09-2005, 05:29 AM

goldcroat

12-09-2005, 08:17 AM

Yes, I'd love to see evidence that these blown engines are from "bad" oil filters. From what I understand, if an oil filter begins to fail, the oil bypasses the filter. I've heard of wasted engines because of no oil changes for 20k miles, over-boost, or failure to replace the spark plugs for 100k miles, but NEVER from a new "bad" oil filter.

The guy at the wal-mart even told me that the only problem with the 6607 was that it was blowing off of the engine. He said nothing about engine damage. And like I said before, this 9000-series is supposed to alleviate those problems.

BobMs_wht2k2

12-09-2005, 09:09 AM

hyunelan2

12-09-2005, 09:34 AM

Why would anyone NOT use OEM? I can see the "save-a-buck" or the "dealer is too far" arquements, but if the OEM filter is adequate for filtering the engine oil, why use anything else? Is it so you don't have to change the oil as frequently? As long as you're up on your regular oil changes, what benefit will there be from a non-OEM filter?

FordFasteRR

12-09-2005, 09:39 AM

..........
I worked for mcQuiks(now Q-lube) when they used fram's. In 4 months I saw 7 blown seals, 2 blown off the car and 3 split cases, one of which was my own car at the time. I need NO more info than that.

YEAH !!!!!!! HAHAAA !!!!!!!!!! :abovelol:

Fram = :eek:

Dust

12-09-2005, 10:15 AM

You know what, there's enough info to show how crappy fram filters are. You're wanting a fight and I'm not playing into it. I have nothing to prove to an e-thug. If you can't do your own research then it's your problem.

I worked for mcQuiks(now Q-lube) when they used fram's. In 4 months I saw 7 blown seals, 2 blown off the car and 3 split cases, one of which was my own car at the time. I need NO more info than that.

FRAM does not = all non OEM filters.

I am not doubting the inability of FRAM, but grouping every filter that doesn't say Hyundai, as the same quality as FRAM, is ignorance.

That's like saying I won't drive a corvette because my honda broke down. Neither are made by Hyundai.

Gregster

12-09-2005, 10:18 AM

I get my oil changed at walmart, bring my own Mobil 1 oil filter. I get hassled that it isnt the "correct filter." I think i know how to read a oil filter application book, i used to work in a part store. Well, I never leave the service area, I am watching them like a hawk at all times. Make sure the work is getting done.

One time, i told the tech that i wanted 3.5-4.0 qts amount of oil. He had those 5 qt mobile synthetic jugs. He fills it, and checks the level and cant figure out why its low. I tell him to look at the jug to see how much oil is remaining. I could see that he was thinking extremely hard about simple subtraction. My poor baby...at the mercy of these so called "techs."

Gregster

FordFasteRR

12-09-2005, 10:44 AM

Purolator oil filters are just as good if not even better than OEM in my book.

Doohickie

12-09-2005, 10:48 AM

FRAM does not = all non OEM filters.True. But Hyundia has issued a technical service bulletin regarding problems with non-OEM filters. Perhaps for liability reasons, they haven't named names. In general, I don't have a problem with aftermarket parts. But in this case, I can't see being stubborn and saving a few dollars per oil change when there are known problems and the auto maker would like to find a way to void a warranty claim. Everyone can make their own decision, but the most prudent way to go in my view is use the OEM filter.

BobMs_wht2k2

12-09-2005, 11:19 AM

FRAM does not = all non OEM filters.

I am not doubting the inability of FRAM, but grouping every filter that doesn't say Hyundai, as the same quality as FRAM, is ignorance.

That's like saying I won't drive a corvette because my honda broke down. Neither are made by Hyundai.

Re-read my posts. I never once said all filters were like fram. But for the price difference why would anyone(myself included) pay more for an "unknown"? Considering Hyundai's propensity to deny claims on non-oe parts, why would you take the chance?

hyunelan2

12-09-2005, 11:28 AM

Re-read my posts. I never once said all filters were like fram. But for the price difference why would anyone(myself included) pay more for an "unknown"? Considering Hyundai's propensity to deny claims on non-oe parts, why would you take the chance?

Exactly what I want to know, Bob. Nobody answered my question above either:

Why would anyone NOT use OEM? I can see the "save-a-buck" or the "dealer is too far" arquements, but if the OEM filter is adequate for filtering the engine oil, why use anything else? Is it so you don't have to change the oil as frequently? As long as you're up on your regular oil changes, what benefit will there be from a non-OEM filter?

BobMs_wht2k2

12-09-2005, 11:31 AM

They can't answer it because there is no logical answer.

VTElantra

12-09-2005, 11:37 AM

Wish I would have found this thread ealier. I just changed my oil, went to walmart and they didn't have the filter either. Ended up getting a Advanced Parts filter.

Dust

12-09-2005, 11:40 AM

Exactly what I want to know, Bob. Nobody answered my question above either:

Well, depending on the filter, better filtration, better bypass valves, better case strength, more holding capacity, better cost.

BobMs_wht2k2

12-09-2005, 11:47 AM

Well, depending on the filter, better filtration, better bypass valves, better case strength, more holding capacity, better cost.

And what filter would that be? Show me a single aftermarket company that has put time in developing a better filter for Hyundai's. Not something that fits, but was actually designed for Hyundai's alone.

IF you find a filter with better filtration, bypass valves and case strength, it's not going to be cheaper. If it's cheaper it's not better.

It's like the sign in a speed shop. It can be cheap, it can be fast and it can be dependable. But you only get to pick 2.

hyunelan2

12-09-2005, 11:49 AM

Well, depending on the filter, better filtration, better bypass valves, better case strength, more holding capacity, better cost.

Putting cost aside (like said above) - why do you need 'better' filtration, if OEM filter is considered adequate for this engine?

bikerPA

12-09-2005, 11:50 AM

:iamwithst

That advice alone will eliminate the majority of n00b questions regarding suspension, engine, transmission... hell, any part of your car. It's not worth cheaping out on the important stuff.

edit: that is to say I agree with Bob.

BobMs_wht2k2

12-09-2005, 11:55 AM

DAILLESTWUN

12-09-2005, 11:56 AM

Please post links of these blown engines with test data showing that a poorly performing filter caused the problem.

http://www.elantraclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5498

http://www.elantraclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5069

Here's just a couple... :rolleyes:

BobMs_wht2k2

12-09-2005, 12:00 PM

http://www.elantraclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5498

http://www.elantraclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5069

Here's just a couple... :rolleyes:
And I like you too! :D

blupupher

12-09-2005, 12:13 PM

OK, here is the actual TSB (http://users4.ev1.net/~nlhoyt/oil/oilfilter.pdf)

http://users4.ev1.net/~nlhoyt/oil/tsb.jpg

It just says that aftermarket filters have caused some lifter noise problems on some vehicles and that the first step to fix it is to check the oil filter. If a non-OEM, then replace with an OEM. It is not saying that a non-OEM filter will destroy your cars engine, but it may cause some problems.

As said above, OEM filters are designed for Hyundai engine's only. An aftermarket is designed to fit several different makes, models, and engines. Some are closer to OEM specs than others, but how do you know which ones?
As for price, there are several places online that sell the OEM filters for around $5 shipped when bought in bulk (a 10 pack usually).

IMO, filter choice for a Hyundai would be:

OEM- $5
Wix (NAPA Gold)- ~$5.50
Puralator Pure one- ~$6
Puralator Premium- $1.50 on sale with rebate (I have 4 of them for my wifes Tucson).

K&N and Mobil 1 filters cost too much. The Supertech filter from Wal-Mart is ok, but even the new size is smaller than OEM. I would use it on other vehicles though (if sized properly).
As for Fram, if it was given to me and I was only doing a 3000 mile oil change interval, no, still too small. On another brand vehicle, I might use it.

Doohickie

12-09-2005, 12:37 PM

OEM filter costs more than $5 in my experience... more like 6 or 7, but still not *that* expensive.

DAILLESTWUN

12-09-2005, 12:59 PM

And I like you too! :D

Aww. you brought a tear to my eye... :redface: lol

Doohickie

12-09-2005, 01:12 PM

Get a room!

BobMs_wht2k2

12-09-2005, 02:13 PM

It just says that aftermarket filters have caused some lifter noise problems on some vehicles and that the first step to fix it is to check the oil filter. If a non-OEM, then replace with an OEM. It is not saying that a non-OEM filter will destroy your cars engine, but it may cause some problems.

OK, I'm not trying to sound mean here, but ya really think ANY knocking in an engine is going to prolong it's life? There's already a couple cases showing low oil pressure caused premature rod bearing wear. If it's causing enough restrictions to cause the lifters to tick, what do you think it's doing to the bottom end?

Get a room!

You're just jealous. I like you too. :D

peters73

12-09-2005, 02:34 PM

I had my car at the dealer for service and talking with the tech, they had a car in service with a blown engine with a Fram filter and they would not cover the engine repairs with the warranty. They consider the Fram filter a after-market filter and that sucks. They only want the OEM filter to be used which is a load of crap.

BobMs_wht2k2

12-09-2005, 02:46 PM

Why is that a load of crap? Why should a manufacter be responsible for aftermarket parts? Should Walmart be responsible for something you bought at K-mart?

robs02elantra

12-09-2005, 03:00 PM

Ok, so I've always done my own oilchanges before now, but I have to admit that since I moved to Waterloo, I've been taking my car to Oil Changers and having them do it for me. Drive in and out service and under 5 minutes. After one of them I got the knocking noise, and a friend said that it was "hydraulic lifters" because the noise would go away after the car warmed up.

Anyway, I might start getting the oil and the oem filters and doing it myself again, just to keep on the safe side.

blupupher

12-09-2005, 03:18 PM

OK, I'm not trying to sound mean here, but ya really think ANY knocking in an engine is going to prolong it's life? There's already a couple cases showing low oil pressure caused premature rod bearing wear. If it's causing enough restrictions to cause the lifters to tick, what do you think it's doing to the bottom end?...

I know what your saying, all I was saying is what the TSB was addressing.
I agree, any knocking is bad in the long run.

I had my car at the dealer for service and talking with the tech, they had a car in service with a blown engine with a Fram filter and they would not cover the engine repairs with the warranty. They consider the Fram filter a after-market filter and that sucks. They only want the OEM filter to be used which is a load of crap.
Well, the Fram is an aftermarket filter, but that does not automatically void the warranty. They must prove that the filter caused the problem to deny the warranty. Or if a different filter # was used that is recommended (a 7317 instead of the 6607 or the newer 9688) would also be grounds for denial.

Doohickie

12-09-2005, 03:22 PM

You're just jealous. I like you too. :DEEEEEWWWWWW!

*furiously sprays disinfectant on keyboard*

jp_recon

12-19-2005, 03:33 AM

Thanks for the info guys. Looks like I'm headed to the dealership to stock up on filters.

Robert1955

12-21-2005, 02:46 PM

Why is that a load of crap? Why should a manufacter be responsible for aftermarket parts? Should Walmart be responsible for something you bought at K-mart?

If a maunfacturer requires their own factory parts to be used to maintain the factory warranty when equivalent aftermarket parts are avaliable they must supply the parts to you for FREE. This is part of the aftermarket parts act, I am at work at the moment and can't quote it now. His problem is a BS dealer not Hyundai and I would contact the factory ASAP to get this taken care of.

Edit to add the information....

On July 4, 1975 the Magnuson-Moss Act, enacted by Congress six months earlier, went into effect. It is part of the official United States Code and can be found at 15 U.S.C. 2301 et. seq. Section 2302(c) specifically addresses the issue that most people on this board are concerned with. In pertinent part it states:

"No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service(other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name... 15 U.S.C. 2302(c)."

Additionally, Congress supplemented this Act in 1977 when it interpreted the Magnuson-Moss Act. This interpretation appears at 16 C.F.R. 700.10 section 102(c) and states, in pertinent part:

"No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, 'This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized "ABC" dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine "ABC" parts,' and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused."

Therefore, under the laws of the United States an automobile warranty is only inapplicable if the manufacturer proves that the aftermarket part was the cause of the defect/damage. This is important, because it places the burden of proof on the manufacturer. Thus, the consumer is under no obligation to show that the aftermarket part did not cause the defect/damage.

fgummett

12-21-2005, 03:12 PM

Wow..! that's what I call a thorough response.. Thanks :bowdown:

Is there an equivalent law in Canada?

Robert1955

12-21-2005, 05:18 PM

Wow..! that's what I call a thorough response.. Thanks :bowdown:

Is there an equivalent law in Canada?

The closest thing I know of in Canada is called CAMVAP.

CAMVAP is an "arbitration" program that can help you resolve disputes with an automobile manufacturer about the quality of your vehicle or how the manufacturer is interpreting or implementing its new vehicle warranty. Most domestic and imported passenger cars, light trucks, sport utility vehicles, vans and multi-purpose passenger vehicles that are purchased or leased in Canada are covered by CAMVAP. The vehicle must be from the current or the previous four (4) model years.

CAMVAP is currently the largest consumer product arbitration plan in Canada.

CAMVAP was created in 1994, to help consumers resolve disputes with vehicle manufacturers or distributors, in a way that is fair, fast, free, friendly and final.

CAMVAP conducts its business across Canada using the same Agreement for Arbitration in each Province and Territory. That means no matter who you are, or where in Canada you live, all cases are handled the same way.

Doohickie

12-21-2005, 05:42 PM

The problems specifically with Fram is, at least from what I've read on forums, that Fram has delisted Hyundai as an application for their standard filter. So if you're using a filter that the manufacturer of the car, AND the manufacturer of the filter has NOT recommended, it seems reasonable that the dealer wouldn't want to fix an engine under warranty if it subsequently fails. At that point I think the person that *should* pay for the new engine (not sure what the law says, this is my opinion) is the person that installed the wrong filter (either the owner or the oil change place). That's the person that made the error.

Locking glove box Robert1955: How did you get that? Where did you get that?

fgummett

12-22-2005, 06:57 AM

The closest thing I know of in Canada is called CAMVAP.

Many Thanks! Hopefully I won't ever need it but good to know all the same

Dust

12-22-2005, 09:08 AM

I know what your saying, all I was saying is what the TSB was addressing.
I agree, any knocking is bad in the long run.

Well, the Fram is an aftermarket filter, but that does not automatically void the warranty. They must prove that the filter caused the problem to deny the warranty. Or if a different filter # was used that is recommended (a 7317 instead of the 6607 or the newer 9688) would also be grounds for
denial.

Just a side note. a few books I looked into(the supertech i definitely remember) changed the 6607 to the 7317 in 2002 at my local walmart.

I may have a ST 7317 to cut up for you guys tomorrow. My bike may be getting a molasoak tonight.