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Engine pinging noise, If it ever happened to you, let us know

18K views 41 replies 25 participants last post by  vw97jettatdi 
#1 ·
I have decided to propose a topic to consolidate who have/had a pinging engine noise with his new and stock Elantra engine with 87 gas. I have seen here and there posts mentioning pinging or knocking noise. Here is a link to Wikipedia on engine noises: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking. Could you please respond here if you ever hear the problem, with:

- Model Year:
- Mileage first heard:
- Noise type:
- ULEV/SULEV:
- Comments:

I am debugging a pinging noise myself and I am looking from input from you guys on this. If I use below 93 gas, I hear pinging at low RPM under load. The lower the octane rating, the higher the pinging. The level of pinging for 87 is clearly out of specification. 91 would be okay I think. I have an 05 model with CVVT so timing must be to blame (not deposits).
 
#2 ·
olidx said:
I am debugging a pinging noise myself and I am looking from input from you guys on this. If I use below 93 gas, I hear pinging at low RPM under load. The lower the octane rating, the higher the pinging. The level of pinging for 87 is clearly out of specification. 91 would be okay I think. I have an 05 model with CVVT so timing must be to blame (not deposits).
Thats not true about the timing.I had a pinging/spark knock,and it was caused by carbon on the pistons and valves.That happen at or around 11,000 miles.Also if you use high octane gas,sometimes you will get a pinging.Um,if you still have champion plugs installed,get rid of them and get some NGK's.I also have a 05.Search around and you will find almost everything you need to know
 
#3 ·
I have pinging since the car is new (it now has 4200 miles), that is why I do not think it is because of deposits. Also I use top tier gas (shell ,76, Chevron ...) so they should have the addidives to clean up deposits. The spark plugs do not look like deposits are in excess. I have the original NGK spark plugs.

 
#5 · (Edited)
Would the octane rating make a difference then? And would it happen only under load? The technician recognized pinging as well and documented it, but no info as of pinging from the knock sensor though. Also my 2000 Elantra never made that noise, and the XD2 Elantra loaner cars I got were not making that noise either. Hope that helps.
 
#6 ·
When mine was pinging,I was running 87 octane and it happened mostly when I was in 3rd, 4th gear when accel hard,so yes,mine was under load.A knock sensor is not goin to pick up a ping.Hell,half the time,they wont pick up a knock.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Australia uses the same specification engines as the US. The minimum octane rating here is 91, and Hyundai Australia recommend 95 for the Elantra. The knock sensor should help it cope with 91, but it is a high-compression engine, after all.

If the knock sensor does cut in, it will retard the timing and kill performance until the knocking stops. Which is why high-octane fuel is better.

In Australia, because almost all new cars are high-compression, we are gradually phasing out 91 octane and the minimum will be 95 octane for normal cars with 98 octane available at all service stations for high performance engines like the WRX and so on.

I certainly run 95 octane in my 2000 XD and never had any problems, even when working hard on long steep climbs with three passengers and a boot full of luggage.
 
#8 ·
cbrmale said:
Australia uses the same specification engines as the US. The minimum octane rating here is 91, and Hyundai Australia recommend 95 for the Elantra. The knock sensor should help it cope with 91, but it is a high-compression engine, after all.

If the knock sensor does cut in, it will retard the timing and kill performance until the knocking stops. Which is why high-octane fuel is better.

In Australia, because almost all new cars are high-compression, we are gradually phasing out 91 octane and the minimum will be 95 octane for normal cars with 98 octane available at all service stations for high performance engines like the WRX and so on.

I certainly run 95 octane in my 2000 XD and never had any problems, even when working hard on long steep climbs with three passengers and a boot full of luggage.
Im eating crow on this one but they recommend 87 octane for these cars.I was for a short time,part of the very few "I run 93 in my car" til 1.didnt notice any power increase and 2.waste of money for n/a application.In few occasions,higher octane gas will aid in pinging noises.It would be nice for the f/i people if there was 95 or 98 around here in the states.At one time years ago Sunoco used to sell 100 octane.That was eight years ago and it was 2.85 a gallon
 
#9 · (Edited)
i have the same thing but i only get it when i start my car and its cold and it idles up and then when it idles down is when i get the knocking noise, but once the car is warm and ready to go the noise is gone. I have a late 2003 gt with the CVVT engine in it, i have a little more then 20,000 miles on the car, also for the record 87 is the way to go with the elantras i have let my gas tank to go to empty and tried a tank of 87 and noticed no change then i tried a tank of 93 and noticed no change, its just a waste of money.
 
#10 · (Edited)
The higher the octane rating, the more anti-detonant additive is mixed with the fuel. There is no other difference between the grades of gas. So if your engine runs fine and is designed to use 87 (USA), using it is the best. Using 91 (USA) on that same engine will just clog the engine. Jet fuel and racing cars use high octane engine as the compression ratios are higher and sometimes they have turbos.
Now if the engine pings, one reason could be that because the air-gas mixture explodes before the spark from the spark plug happens in the cylinder. I believe that is what is happening in my case: it is consistant with using higher octane delaying the explosing, resulting in less to no pinging.
In theory, 87 (USA) is perfect for the CVVT beta. Not sure why I am having this problem... But I suspect a timing adjustment to be done on the CAM?

droppedlikewhoa said:
i have the same thing but i only get it when i start my car and its cold and it idles up and then when it idles down is when i get the knocking noise, but once the car is warm and ready to go the noise is gone.
Just curious if you use a Hyundai Genuine Part Oil Filter? I heard about aftermarket filters causing this knocking at startup. You may want to try full synthetic oil too, so lubrification is better when your engine is cold. In my case, there is no pinging at startup. Only when the engine is at nominal temperature under load.
 
#13 ·
cclngthr said:
On the US spec car, the ECU is mapped for 87 octane gas. Using higher octane fuel will clog the engine with carbon.
WTF

I now use 94 in prep for the turbo since a month now....

My car runs GRATER THAN EVER

In the service manual it says something like you can use 91 but 87 works :confused:



 
#14 ·
Much of the world uses the motor (M) method of rating octane level. At one time in the USA, we used the research (R) method. Now we use the RXM/2 method of octane rating. This is done by averaging both ratings by splitting the difference.

So, our 87 rating in the USA is actually 91 in the rest of the world, and our 91 is actually 95 in the rest of the world; likewise, our 93 is equivalent to the foreign 98. It seems everyone is getting confused over nothing.

My 05 Hatch has 11,000 miles, now, and I can't hear any pinging with 87 fuel, but only a slight valve train noise, when starting cold. Once warm, it is very quiet; still have original plugs, whatever brand they are.

Val from Florida
 
#15 ·
KeWLKaT said:
WTF

I now use 94 in prep for the turbo since a month now....

My car runs GRATER THAN EVER

In the service manual it says something like you can use 91 but 87 works :confused:
The tech classes I have taken from Hyundai discuss the issue of using fuel higher than 87. The issue discusses the problem with carbon buildup when the car is run with it when the ECU has not been modified.
 
#17 · (Edited)
the lower the octane of gas, the more explosive and combustible it is.

for example, deisel is an octane of 40 and it doesn't even need spark plugs to ignite it.

if there is pinging, it probably isn't the octane, although a higher octane can solve the problem in some instances. higher octane fuels have less pinging because they require higher temperatures to burn the fuel, which is less fuel efficient (as most people don't realize)

for better performance, you should burn the lowest octane your car can handle.

i am not 100% sure what all can cause pinging... maybe even some clogging or other problems related to the fuel injection system?
 
#19 ·
I really think cclngthr is right about the timing. No cloging: at 0 miles my car was already doing the pinging. ECU readings are fine, so I think fuel injection is fine. I am thinking that there could be also a weak sensor that could cause it (it provides info to the ECU with an offset, so as a result the output of the ECU will be off as well). So I will ask they check the sensors out. Anyway, I think cclngthr has the right insight.

A couple images on timing for CVVT engines:

Beta CVVT Camshaft drawing:


CVVT Timing effects:


- Anyone else has more information so we get to know better what we are talking about?
- Anyone has heard pinging noise from his engine?
 
#20 ·
Diesel engines typically use a compression of 20:1 to 25:1, which is why they ignite on compression. For petrol engines, the following applies:

Detonation
The fuel/air mixture is normally ignited slightly before the point of maximum compression to allow a small time for the flame-front of the burning fuel to expand throughout the mixture, so that maximum pressure occurs at the optimum point. The flame-front moves at about 1100 feet/second during normal combustion. It is only when the remaining unburned mixture is heated and pressurized by the advancing flame front for a certain length of time that the knocking effect occurs. It is caused by an instantaneous ignition of the remaining fuel/air mixture in the form of an explosion. The cylinder pressure rises dramatically beyond design limits. If allowed to persist detonation will cause vibration and damage to engine parts.

Detonation can typically be prevented by:

The use of higher octane petrol
The addition of octane-increasing "lead", isooctane, or other fuel additives
Reduction of cylinder pressure by increasing the engine revolutions or reducing the load on the engine, or both
Reduction of in-cylinder temperatures (such as through cooling or compression ratio reduction), or
Retardation of spark plug ignition.
Adding water in the form of humidity to the air.
Proper combustion chamber design which concentrates mixture near the spark plug and generates high turbulence to promote fast even burning.
Use of a spark plug of colder heat range in cases where the spark plug insulator has become a source of pre-ignition leading to detonation.

Correct ignition timing is essential for optimum engine performance and fuel efficiency. Modern automotive and small-boat engines have sensors that can detect knock and delay the spark plug firing to prevent it, allowing engines to safely use petrol of lower octane ratings, with the consequence of reduced power and efficiency.


korai9989 said:
the lower the octane of gas, the more explosive and combustible it is.

for example, deisel is an octane of 40 and it doesn't even need spark plugs to ignite it.

if there is pinging, it probably isn't the octane, although a higher octane can solve the problem in some instances. higher octane fuels have less pinging because they require higher temperatures to burn the fuel, which is less fuel efficient (as most people don't realize)

for better performance, you should burn the lowest octane your car can handle.

i am not 100% sure what all can cause pinging... maybe even some clogging or other problems related to the fuel injection system?
 
#21 ·
droppedlikewhoa said:
when my car is due for a oil change in about 1,000 miles im going to use a hyundai filter instead of a aftermarket one because i was told at the dealership and by other people that aftermarket filters can cause this knocking at startup when the car is cold and its idleing down.
I noticed a difference as well, by switching to the HI-FLOW oil filter, the pinning sound decreased quite a bit.
 
#22 · (Edited)
This "pinging" you here can also be the camshaft chain. In our cars, the plastic valve cover makes the chain noise sound like a "ping"sound. I have had this checked out, the tensioner was fine. It is just the clearance they have is too small not to make this noise when there is the slightest slack in the chain.

Something to think about anyway.....
 
#42 ·
I had the same problem, its a common one where the cam chain loosens and slaps on a wear plate due to chain elongation of wear between the chain pin and its links.

wow i know this is a really old post. Ran into pinging or knocking noises a few times with the Beta2 CVVT motors. 3 things have been replace in exact order. Timing CHAIN tensioner went bad, cause chain slap. that was the first time i notice the problems. hyundai/kia puts faulty hydraulic compressors in the tensioner. causing the chain to have free play. simple but cheap temp fix would be putting washers inside the housing, 2/3 will do until you get another part. do not go more than 1k miles on your cars will cause serious damage. 2nd faulty oil pump, run a test if your pressure at idle is below 22.8 psi then you may have knocking when you first start the motor. Also i noticed alot of noise coming from the engine while driving, at very light load the engine would not make a knocking sound. at a moderate or heavy load the engine does make the sound. Something similar to a spun bearing. But bearings when spun knock all the time. Eliminates that problem right there. Low OIL psi can cause your thrust bearings to go bad, and trust me 3rd problem will be your engine not running no more. Thrust bearing going bad will throw off alot of items in your engine. The knocking will become constant, you will suffer from loss of engine power. then almost after you suffer the loss of power , your engine will stop running. Ok i know i put alot there. before you spend lots of money or before you take it to a shop, Check to see if that noise you hear is coming from the top or bottom by revving your engine slightly while under the hood of your car. listen for top or bottom, if its the top. cheap fix, 40/60 dollars at your dealership.. if its the bottom. the best way to treat it , park it and replace the thrust bearings. check the oil psi. and make sure there is no wear on the main bearings in your engine.
Like i said, the chatter "Ping" of the engine can be the chain as mine recently grew this symptom. I know it can be a number of other things but ive narrowed the noise to the valve train, and the consistency of the knocking makes me believe its chain. Ill try and pull off the head and see what i can replace.
Typically im hearing the chain tension-er and wear plate must be replaced and since your removing the valve cover the head gasket needs to be replaced.

Like i said ill try cracking it open, snap some shots and get back with possibly a diagnosis if i don't blow the thing up.
Let me know if anyone can find and DIY instruction manuals on repairing/replacing the timing chain between the DOHC.

Like i said, the chatter "Ping" of the engine can be the chain as mine recently grew this symptom. I know it can be a number of other things but ive narrowed the noise to the valve train, and the consistency of the knocking makes me believe its chain. Ill try and pull off the head and see what i can replace.

Typically the chain, chain tension-er and chain wear plate must be replaced and since your removing the valve cover the head gasket needs to be replaced as well.

Building a DIY for this:
http://www.elantraxd.com/forums/sho...nt-quot-Clacking-Engine-Noise-quot#post629716

10yr 100,000 mile warranty may cover this chain issue by the way so if your the original owner and fall within this push the dealer first.
 
#24 ·
03SilverBullet said:
the hi flow filter is the hyundai OEM one?
Haha....FORD's going to be mad, but NO, it was the fram filter that they just changed to at Walmart. I had to get my oil changed and I didn't have time to do it myself, but when I got to WalMart they told me they had a new filter that the hyundais had to use for Hi-Flow use. I hate to admit, but it really made a difference. WELL...... I went to the dealership thinking it was a better choice than the fram filter, but guess what...... THE NOISE IS BACK!!!! *argh :(
 
#25 ·
jp_recon said:
Haha....FORD's going to be mad, but NO, it was the fram filter that they just changed to at Walmart. I had to get my oil changed and I didn't have time to do it myself, but when I got to WalMart they told me they had a new filter that the hyundais had to use for Hi-Flow use. I hate to admit, but it really made a difference. WELL...... I went to the dealership thinking it was a better choice than the fram filter, but guess what...... THE NOISE IS BACK!!!! *argh :(
So the walmart filter worked and the hyundai OEM filter made the pinging come back?
 
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