Another Motor Oil Change Question

[elantra_ON]

HI guys,

Need you help comments etc...

ok so before someone says do a search, i did do a search, and I know that most of you do the 6000KM change (3000mile) oil change.

I have also read from doing a search that the Elantra manual regular oil change interval states that 6 months or 12000LM. i checked my manual and it also says that.

Seems like the dealer recommended 6000KM is under harsh driving conditions... ie. short trips, aggressive driving etc.

ok, so here's the deal. I do alot of highway driving and i dont drive aggresively, i'm at par with the granny way of driving.

anyways, highway driving that i do gets me 6000km in around 6 weeks or so. getting tired of going to the dealer for oil change at short intervals.

should i go for the 12000KM interval? also planning to DIY oil change as well.


But again, i dont want to void warranty. any comments on these?

[slow 2K2GT]

no stick with the 6000km. Its very inexpensive to do an oil change, but very expensive for repairs or a new engine. I run full synthetic and do changes every 5000km

[elantra_ON]

slow 2K2GT since you live in ontario too, do you know what kind of oil they use?

I've use Castrol GTX on my old van ( i do my own oil change on that). But the dealer oil, i wonder if its any good.

Yes i agree oil change is definetly cheaper than getting engine fixed. I just wondered if they know something we dont.

and besides i came across this on the net.

www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm

see under oil change intervals... just made me think about the elantra manuals recommended oil change interval at 12000km vs 6000km under harsh driving conditions.... :confused:

[mnstrmech]

that article about oil is major bullsh#@!!!! being an auto technician and see 100's of different cars know that ill never listen to this crap!!lets start off woth a few facts that i have experienced.
firestone/expert tire stores use recycled oil! i worked for them for 9 miserable months! it was 10w30 kendall bulk, and 6 out of 10 cars i would see to do an oil change had no oil on the dipstick!, with our stupid oil filter on the car!most of the cars go between 3-4000 miles, most of those being import.totally bashing their report, using cheap oil, it gets burnt off, oil shouldnt do that, not good oil. which bring me to my other job, which was at pepboys, they do their oil chages with oil off of the shelf, with whatever oil you want, and i rarley saw any car come in low on oil(unless it was leaking badly or just a p.o.s).
Now i work at a gmc/cadillac/hyundia/buick dealership, and only on occasion that a caddy comes thru low on oil(some northstars do have piston ring issues). we use mobil 10w30, non recycled.
dont listen to reports like these, cause long oil change intervals, even with cheap oils, can cause oil leaks when oil becomes contaminated, not with soot, but with blowby gases(gasoline). anybody that works on cars know that even about the 3K miles mark drained oil smell like gasoline and is very runny, thin. and with so much short trip driving nowadays, the pcv system doesnt do a good job extracting all the moisture from the oil.
sludge really only forms when the temps fall below freezing, 30degrees or less. my moms 01 malibu with 15K miles has sludge on the oil fill cap in the winter, she drives 3 miles to and from work. i changed the oil from regular to synthetic, and it never returned(only showed up in winter, not in summer). but once again, sludge doesnt always happen, it may have never shown up in warmer climate, but it did in colder climate.proof, synthetics are better, but the majaraty of the population doesnt use them.
basically, i know a lot about oil, and this article is bogus, imo, not trying to thrash anyone, but just though id give a few personal experiences, always stick to the schedual for short trip driving, and if you do put a lot of miles on your car weekly, streatching the interval to the manuals max wont hurt, but i wouldnt do it.

[blupupher]

Man, the BS in this thread is deep.

[pjc6281]

Man, the BS in this thread is deep.

well thats constructive,

Oil should be changed every 3000-3500 miles no matter what. I dont believe in using cheap oil, because if u skimp out on one of the most important maintenance procedures on your car then what else do you do to F#&K it up??? People should always use a good name brand or a Premium brand oil. Dont go for the walmart specials!!! There...spoke my peace

[blupupher]

Yes, it was. I have said what I have to say in the other 15 threads about motor oil in the past month. I had to go before I finished typing my response.
Me telling you when to change your oil means nothing. Each vehicle is different depending on driving style and location (among other things).
If you (not you in particular pjc6281) want to waste your money changing your oil every 3k, fine, it does not mean everyone else wants to or needs to.
I do it every 7500 miles. Why, because it suits my driving style and I have confirmed it with a used oil analysis. Not by how the oil "looks" (oil that is doing it's job usualy does look dirty, it does not mean it is bad).

For the original poster, if you really want to know, on your next oil change, get an oil analysis done (about $12) and see how the oil is doing.
Butler Labs (http://www.butler-machinery.com/services/product_support_oil.asp)
Blackstone Labs (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gas_engines.html)
For regular dino oil, your probably good for 5000 miles (whatever that is in km). Most any synthetic will be good to the max allowed for warranty.

[menallychllngd]

i use full synthetic mobil one that is guranteed to provide protection for up to 15,000 miles. this combined with a pure one filter stays in my car 15,000 miles. i don't buy into that 3,000 mile propaganda.

[Soron]

I'm getting tired of seeing these 3k oil change threads myself. The manual specifies a 7500 mile oci and thats for dino oil using hyundai filters! its lasts much longer using synthetic and third party filters, but it still must be changed at 7.5k to keep the warrenty in effect.

[elantra_ON]

I'm getting tired of seeing these 3k oil change threads myself. The manual specifies a 7500 mile oci and thats for dino oil using hyundai filters! its lasts much longer using synthetic and third party filters, but it still must be changed at 7.5k to keep the warrenty in effect.

Soron, yes i know. its just confusing when you see so many different opinions. i've read so many stuff about this and so many opinions.

Just thought I would pose the question up again with that article and see what people with expereince on these kinda things say. what mnstrmech says makes sense. and actually alot of the folks here say makes sense. Again, so i guess its a balance between driving style, type of oil, warranty etc. and hmmm i guess that balance is around 6000km.

Which brings me back to my 2nd question. How good are hyundai dealers oil? are they the cheap ones? Like i mentioned earler, i use regular oil (castrol gtx) i believe this may not be the best but still way better than most cheap oils. I mean i did some math, and if i do the oil change myself with oil like castrol, it would come out to be $2.00 + dollars cheaper. ya i know not so much of a diffrence if i get it done in the dealer, however, if they are using cheap sucky oil... i might as well do it myself.

[Robert1955]

elantra_ON,

As one highway driver to another, 36,000+ per year, you will be fine using the 7,500 mile interval. I would recomend using a full synthetic oil though and a good aftermarket filter IF you do not use the stock Hyundai filter. I have driven my Toyota 4X4 for 300,000 miles using synthetic and it was the cleanest motor I have ever taken apart. I currently have 104,000 on my Elantra and all is well there also.

[mnstrmech]

Soron, yes i know. its just confusing when you see so many different opinions. i've read so many stuff about this and so many opinions.

Just thought I would pose the question up again with that article and see what people with expereince on these kinda things say. what mnstrmech says makes sense. and actually alot of the folks here say makes sense. Again, so i guess its a balance between driving style, type of oil, warranty etc. and hmmm i guess that balance is around 6000km.

Which brings me back to my 2nd question. How good are hyundai dealers oil? are they the cheap ones? Like i mentioned earler, i use regular oil (castrol gtx) i believe this may not be the best but still way better than most cheap oils. I mean i did some math, and if i do the oil change myself with oil like castrol, it would come out to be $2.00 + dollars cheaper. ya i know not so much of a diffrence if i get it done in the dealer, however, if they are using cheap sucky oil... i might as well do it myself.



as a hyundia dealer tech, all i can suggest is you ask your dealer what they use, our shop uses mobil clean 10w30, regular oil. good stuff. but every dealer is differnet.

[elantra_ON]

elantra_ON,

As one highway driver to another, 36,000+ per year, you will be fine using the 7,500 mile interval. I would recomend using a full synthetic oil though and a good aftermarket filter IF you do not use the stock Hyundai filter. I have driven my Toyota 4X4 for 300,000 miles using synthetic and it was the cleanest motor I have ever taken apart. I currently have 104,000 on my Elantra and all is well there also.

thanks for the tip Robert1955. me and my wife share a car. and we average 150km a day. approximately 130Km of which is on the highway.

With sharing a car, and our busy life style, its hard to be poppin in the dealer every 6 - 7 weeks or so.

Ok so I know Robert's opinion on oil. i should go synthethic and forget about the castrol gtx. so my next question to Robert and Mnstrmech is this, i have 44000km now, still safe to do this? I have researched on this as well, and i do get conflicting results. Some say its not the oil but the filter is not meant to handle so much dirt. some say go semi synthetic first then full... mnstrmech as a hyundai mech what do you think?

I am now strongly considering doing my own oil change - with synthetic... as well as some of the other maintanance stuff like coolant... checking fluids ( i do those anyways i dont know why i have to pay someone just to check the fluids i could check myself), tire rotation etc... again my only concern is the warranty... yes i am a wimpy man when it comes to that.

[Bnystrom]

Why is it so hard for some idiots to accept this??? The engine manufacturer knows EXACTLY what their engines require. THEY are responsible if anything goes wrong during the warranty period, so they have NO reason to recommend an oil change schedule that could potentially cause engine damage. If the manufacturer say that you can go 7500 miles between changes with normal driving, YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK!

Unless you LEGITIMATELY fall into the "severe conditions" driving category, changing your oil every 3000 miles merely proves:

1) You're a sucker for oil company marketing.
2) You're too stupid or stubborn to listen to facts and reason.
3) You're environmentally irresponsible.
4) You enjoy wasting time and money.

Cars and engines have evolved a lot; it's time that the people driving them did too. Wake up already!

[elantra_ON]

Why is it so hard for some idiots to accept this??? The engine manufacturer knows EXACTLY what their engines require. THEY are responsible if anything goes wrong during the warranty period, so they have NO reason to recommend an oil change schedule that could potentially cause engine damage. If the manufacturer say that you can go 7500 miles between changes with normal driving, YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK!

Unless you LEGITIMATELY fall into the "severe conditions" driving category, changing your oil every 3000 miles merely proves:

1) You're a sucker for oil company marketing.
2) You're too stupid or stubborn to listen to facts and reason.
3) You're environmentally irresponsible.
4) You enjoy wasting time and money.

Cars and engines have evolved a lot; it's time that the people driving them did too. Wake up already!

gee bynstorm i hope i'm not the idiot(s) you are reffering to. Let me explain, why i err on the side of caution and posting here instead of asking these questions to the dealer. One although i have no complaints in terms of service from the dealer. They exist because they need to make money. So having me there is their job. Henceforth I post it here again after spending hours reading.

Now, the manual is there as a guide. But I'm sure there are holes. For example, the manual say under normal driving condition change oil at 12 months or 12000lm whichever comes first. I am sure some smart *** person will find holes and say i was driving under severe conditions. Its like the law, its clearly writen but doesnt stop some lawyers in finding holes to get what they want.

so in case i'm the one you are refferring to
here is my answer
1) You're a sucker for oil company marketing. - NOPE THATS WHY I ASKED FOR OPINIONS

2) You're too stupid or stubborn to listen to facts and reason. - NOPE THATS WHY I ASKED FOR OPINIONS

3) You're environmentally irresponsible. - NOPE THATS WHY I ASKED FOR OPINIONS

4) You enjoy wasting time and money. - NOPE THATS WHY I ASKED FOR OPINIONS

if you are not reffering to me, please do accept my appologies, I am merely explaning why i posed those questions. and please re word your last post.
I believe forums like this are learning tools for everyone, and you choice of word may turn off some people who are doing just that.

[slow 2K2GT]

Why is it so hard for some idiots to accept this??? The engine manufacturer knows EXACTLY what their engines require. THEY are responsible if anything goes wrong during the warranty period, so they have NO reason to recommend an oil change schedule that could potentially cause engine damage. If the manufacturer say that you can go 7500 miles between changes with normal driving, YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK!

Unless you LEGITIMATELY fall into the "severe conditions" driving category, changing your oil every 3000 miles merely proves:

1) You're a sucker for oil company marketing.
2) You're too stupid or stubborn to listen to facts and reason.
3) You're environmentally irresponsible.
4) You enjoy wasting time and money.

Cars and engines have evolved a lot; it's time that the people driving them did too. Wake up already!

I think I fall in there thats why I do the frequent changes. I rev each gear to redline, if my foot is on the gas its at the floor. I am testing just how much abuse I can give this engine before I have to replace it...for the record I do have a second one in storage, I just want to know what it can take...with proper maintenance it seems to hold up just fine.

slow 2K2GT since you live in ontario too, do you know what kind of oil they use?
I am not sure, I myself use Mobil 1 full synthetic for the engine and a Motomaster semi-synthetic for the tranny

[elantra_ON]

I think I fall in there thats why I do the frequent changes. I rev each gear to redline, if my foot is on the gas its at the floor. I am testing just how much abuse I can give this engine before I have to replace it...for the record I do have a second one in storage, I just want to know what it can take...with proper maintenance it seems to hold up just fine.


I am not sure, I myself use Mobil 1 full synthetic for the engine and a Motomaster semi-synthetic for the tranny


I dont think you fall in that. I think you fall under cautious. you know you bash it, so you have to take care of it. makes perfect sense to me.

[blupupher]

From the 2004 Hyundai Owners Manual (emphasis added):

Severe Driving Conditions:
A - Repeated short distance driving
B - Extensive Idling
C - Driving in Dusty, rough roads
D - Driving in areas using salt or other corrosive materials or in very cold weather
E - Driving in sandy areas
F - More than 50% driving in heavy city traffic during hot weather above 90°F (32°C)
G - Driving in mountainous areas
H - Towing a trailer
I - Driving as a patrol car, taxi, or other commercial use or vehicle towing
J - Driving over 100MPH
and for severe usage for engine oil, only A, B, C, F, and H apply.
If you don't meet these, you can technically go 7500 miles between oil changes with regular dino and Hyundai can't say a thing about it.
Would they, maybe, but you could fight it and win.
Is it worth it, depends.

elantra_ON, I don't think Bnystrom was bashing you, just those that always answer every oil change question with "Change it every 3000 miles or it will blow up" types.
As for the oil you should use, in Canada they have an oil called Esso XD-3 (http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENCVLESEsso_Xd-3_extra.pdf) (0w-30 or 0w-40) that is an awsome synthetic oil. I believe it is only available as Esso bulk dealers by the case (6L/case I believe). If I were ever in Canada, I would get me some. Excellent cold weather start properties and a very stable oil. Great year round oil.

And before others open their mouths and start blabbing about how a 0w-xx oil is too thin, just learn a bit more about oil before showing how stupid you are.

[Dust]

Yes, it was. I have said what I have to say in the other 15 threads about motor oil in the past month. I had to go before I finished typing my response.
Me telling you when to change your oil means nothing. Each vehicle is different depending on driving style and location (among other things).
If you (not you in particular pjc6281) want to waste your money changing your oil every 3k, fine, it does not mean everyone else wants to or needs to.
I do it every 7500 miles. Why, because it suits my driving style and I have confirmed it with a used oil analysis. Not by how the oil "looks" (oil that is doing it's job usualy does look dirty, it does not mean it is bad).

For the original poster, if you really want to know, on your next oil change, get an oil analysis done (about $12) and see how the oil is doing.
Butler Labs (http://www.butler-machinery.com/services/product_support_oil.asp)
Blackstone Labs (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gas_engines.html)
For regular dino oil, your probably good for 5000 miles (whatever that is in km). Most any synthetic will be good to the max allowed for warranty.

Sometimes $12 isn't worth it, but dumping good Mobil 1 that runs more than that per year is.

Let's see

$5 filter
$4 Mobil 1 times 4

$21

so if you went from 3K to 7500, which is recommended, for NORMAL use, then you will save about $32. Half of that will pay for a UOA, and you will actually know what is happening in your engine, and the rest can pay for mods.

Win Win in my eyes. You get $15, you get to know what your engine is doing, can head off maintenence problems such as a leaky injector, coolant leak, PCV valve problems, bad air filter, and you aren't wasting oil and polluting unduly.

And you can spend more time on EXD.

www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm

Eh, okay

Soot is a diesel problem

Bypass filters work just as well on gas engines

Sludge can be caused at any temperature

It can occur doing Manufacturer's OCI's in certain cars, including the 3.0 Toyota, the 1.8T Volkswagen, and others.

[Soron]

Ok so I know Robert's opinion on oil. i should go synthethic and forget about the castrol gtx. so my next question to Robert and Mnstrmech is this, i have 44000km now, still safe to do this? I have researched on this as well, and i do get conflicting results. Some say its not the oil but the filter is not meant to handle so much dirt. some say go semi synthetic first then full...

At 44k you should be fine for the switch, however if you still have reservations about making the switch then go with a semi-syn for 3 oil changes and if no leaks develop during that time then you can go full synthetic no problem. If you have leaks then switch back to dino oil to replug the leaks, in either case you have lost nothing to chance. I myself made the switch at 60k+ going the semi-syn route with no problems.

Synthetic oils can last a LONG time, some are designed for 12k (royal purple)and others 15k (mobil 1), the filters however is debateable on how long they last. I have been quoted by K&N and Mobil 1 that their filters last 6k and 7.5k respectively, but as long as your car is under warrenty then you must change it at 7,500 to keep the warrenty in effect. Myself, Blupupher and Dust are the resident oil guru's here, don't hesitate to ask any of us any oil questions.

On a related note, yes i'm a royal purple man, got the merchandise and oil to prove it! lol!

[Bnystrom]

elantra_ON, I don't think Bnystrom was bashing you, just those that always answer every oil change question with "Change it every 3000 miles or it will blow up" types.

That's correct.

[elantra_ON]

bnystorm,
thanks for clearing that up. and again, like i mentioned earlier, I apologize if i misunderstood you, I guess i did, so I apologize now, just needed to clear things up.


Soron, or any of the oil guru's. please tell me in non oil genius term why synthetics causes leaks... some of the oil manufacturers website dont mention it, some do but very vague. are they more aggressive on the seals because of "detergents" in them. i think this is not the case. perhaps the older cars already have small leaks. but with the synthetics being "more fluid" -like it is more obvious. am i correct in this assumption?

oh and blupupher, yup i looked at my manuals too, and really i do not fall into those. i also am considering with going to the maximum oil change interval with regular oil. but if synthetic do add more protection, why not? I get my oil in costco and its cheaper than canadian tire. the only thing is they only carry castrol. the castrol syntec is also cheaper. so right now researching on what a good compromise. if all else fails its either i continue to use castrol gtx or might as well shell out and get the mobil 1s.

[Soron]

Synthetics don't actually cause leaks, they just uncover the leaks already present that dino oils typically plug up via sludge that they caused in the first place. Synthetic oils have a natural solvency (cleaning action), before they put the detergents in the oil, that cleans the engine of deposits, in this case sludge built up on the seals and what not. When the sludge/deposits are cleaned out, wala, the leak is uncovered and thus the myth that synthetic oils causes leaks is born. Last I heard, a statistic doing an analysis of percetage of cars "developing" leaks switching to synthetic oil is roughly 5% - 15%, pretty low and most of those were for older vehicles that do not use seals made after the early/mid 1980's.

[blupupher]

The synthetic causes leaks myth will not go away. While it is true that earl synthetics did cause leaks in a perfectly healthy engine, this was over 30 years ago, the problem has long been fixed.
As Soron explained above, synthetics can uncover a leak that you already have, but that is not the same as causing a leak.
Castrol Syntec should be fine. I again recomend the Esso XD-3 if you can find it, cheaper than Mobil 1 or Syntec and protects at least as well if not better.
And I won't call myself a guru, I just know more than I should about oil. :)
If you want a good read, go to www.bobistheoilguy.com and read around on the forums there.

[Soron]

Thats funny blu, not a guru, lol! true not like bob, but here on the forums I consider ya and dust to be one of the few and proud.

[Dust]

One of the only reasons I would like to visit Canada is for XD-3. Fortunately, that is the only reason I have to visit Canda. :D

Syn will clean, so if you have problems, they will surface. Same thing will happen if you use HDEO's. I am using them in my bike, after an ARX cleaning, and I am getting a good amount of leakage. Got enough to smoke out my exhaust pipe after the bike had been sitting.

[elantra_ON]

thanks for all the info guys. it helps alot.

I guess synthethics elimenates sluding. which is good right?

the balance is tilting in favor of the synthetics.


i will try to look for that xd 3 you guys are talking about. i dropped by canadian tire and i did not see that motor oil.

[blupupher]

...

i will try to look for that xd 3 you guys are talking about. i dropped by canadian tire and i did not see that motor oil.
It is only available @ Esso dealers.

HERE (http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/ImperialOilLubesDistributors-Ontario.pdf) is a .pdf link for dealers in Ontario. Call them first to make sure they have it in stock, some may have to order it.
Yes, it is a bit more of a hassle than going to CT or WM, but IMO it is worth it.

[elantra_ON]

Yup, i was just look at those, thanks again. but before that, i will drop in he local gas station one of these days to see if they have em and to see how much they cost.

thanks again.