Muffler Advice

[GTSpeedRacer]

Several questions for everyone:

I don't like the look of how most aftermarket cat back mufflers stick out under the read fender like a roll of paper towel. I much prefer the way some people have tucked Magnaflow mufflers in the stock position and just stuck the tips out. Do people just go to a local speed shop, purchase a Magnaflow and have them instal it? I also don't want a really loud muffler, what does the magnaflow sound like compared to some of the cat-backs?

I realize you do not gain nearly the same benefits by just replacing the mufler and not the small stock pipe, but whats the est. cost involved?

Any answers appreciated.

[seraph0503]

if you really wann save money and not have it too loud or sticking out the back use a glass pack muffler and make a cherry bomb. it should cost at most 60 from any muffler shop.
http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/Image(042).jpg
wow it's easy to do images now...

[2BIT]

To get my magnaflow , all I did was go to a local Meinike shop, tell them what I wanted and how I wanted it, (just like stock) and they did the rest. Came out nice. Just that simple. :cool:

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/35682.gif

[GTSpeedRacer]

I know for a fact that the above method would not get past local emission laws.

I like the look for a pair of 2 inch tips coming out where the stock muffler is...I'm just not familiar with how easy it is to replace the stock muffler.

*edit*

Thanks 2BIT, I'll have to head down there. Cost of muffler/instalation is you don't mind me asking?

[2GTS]

I know for a fact that the above method would not get past local emission laws.


And why not? The car still has a muffler and all of the stock emmisions equipment installed. The muffler doesn't have to be at the bumper or even the end of the exhaust system, there just has to be one.

[tharptroy]

2gts is right, the muffler has absolutely nothing to do with gaseous emissions. The only thing that a muffler does is supress noise, and so long as the noise isnt overbearingly loud, there shouldnt be a problem...also, with a setup like that, you can still just keep the stock exhaust in your garage and swap it out if need be

[GTSpeedRacer]

I tried putting a cherry bomb type exhust on my Jeep...by law the end of the muffler HAS to be behind the last door jam (so fumes don't enter the cabin). On my jeep it wasn't too hard as it's a two door, but with the 4-door elantra, bolting a cherry bomb to the cat doesn't work.

Trust me. It doesn't have anything to do with what's coming out, rather where it's coming out.

[seraph0503]

well i have no problems with fumes. sorry but i have that setup and it works fine for me. it's not any louder than a regular exhaust. but you will notice a lot of vibration from it. just tryna help u out. on a side note. find a cheap as muffler shop and get a quote for a catback exhaust and muffler. then go to meineke. they price match and do mandrel bends. better quality for less money. they may price match you on the muffler too if you're sure its the same one. oh and they price match at the one i go to so u might wanna check to make sure ur local one does as well.

[GTSpeedRacer]

OK, thanks for the advice.

[vabeach_03]

i got mine from e-bay for 50. had the shop open the exhaust a little. it has a deap throaty sound. not the rice burner whine. and i like the look of it.

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/COTM%201.JPG

[04 elantra cvvt]

I opted to totally delete the muffler all together. Surprisingly enough, the car is not very loud at all. It is quieter that my friend's Civic with a magnaflow, not to mention that his has that high pitched bumble bee sound, whereas mine is very very deep. And as you can see, it is tucked in the same place as my stock muffler.
http://www.centexgmlegends.org/04elantraxd13.jpg
http://www.centexgmlegends.org/04elantraxd14.jpg
I just went to the local muffler shop and gave them measurements and angles. The only thing that had to be welded was the flange so that it would bolt up to the stock intermediate pipe. I think it cost me like 15-20 bucks!

[FordFasteRR]

I have a problem with this.
I just don't think that running a car without a muffler is a good idea EVEN if its not as loud.... Do you have before and after performance measurements to determine if it helped to make the car faster / slower ?

I opted to totally delete the muffler all together. Surprisingly enough, the car is not very loud at all. It is quieter that my friend's Civic with a magnaflow, not to mention that his has that high pitched bumble bee sound, whereas mine is very very deep. And as you can see, it is tucked in the same place as my stock muffler.
http://www.centexgmlegends.org/04elantraxd13.jpg
http://www.centexgmlegends.org/04elantraxd14.jpg
I just went to the local muffler shop and gave them measurements and angles. The only thing that had to be welded was the flange so that it would bolt up to the stock intermediate pipe. I think it cost me like 15-20 bucks!

[2BIT]

If I remember right, I paid Meinike $130 ...

[GTSpeedRacer]

I went to a couple of Meinikes and was told my best bet was to pick/purchase a muffler first and then go back to get an estimate on installing it as a catback system.

I see magnaflows are pretty popular. Anyone care to give a testimonial and/or point me in a good direction to buy one (I know the web is the best bet, but anyone knowing a good site would be appreciated).

One last thing....best size pipe?

Thanks.

[evil247]

one more option about the paper towel roll sticking out under the bumper. You can also cut your bumper and have it look like this.

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/HFT3.jpg

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/MVC-687S.JPG

[Steve]

I have a problem with this.
I just don't think that running a car without a muffler is a good idea EVEN if its not as loud.... Do you have before and after performance measurements to determine if it helped to make the car faster / slower ?

Explain more please.

[FordFasteRR]

Explain more please.

The only way to know for sure that this exhaust setup is worth using is to do a back to back comparison of your best choice of muffler vs straight through pipe...

If this was the best setup then why dont exhaust manufacturers design super advanced straight through pipes instead of straight through mufflers?

[2GTS]

If this was the best setup then why dont exhaust manufacturers design super advanced straight through pipes instead of straight through mufflers?
Because you can't quiet the exhaust note with a pipe without changing size. It would have to have baffles or perforations or chambers and if the pipe has those items it's no longer a pipe but a muffler. You still didn't say why straight pipe is bad btw.

[slvrsleeper]

Not that loud compared to what? By eliminating the muffler but not the factory resonator I imagine it sounds like a combine. To answer your earlier question, I have a six inch diameter stright through muffler mounted between the catalytic converter and the canister muffler at the end of the Evo Fusion cat-back. My car rumbles nicely at WFO but sound barely louder than stock at idle.

[GTSpeedRacer]

Best way to cut fender?

Roto-zip, hacksaw, dremmel, gringing stone on drill?

Even if I go with a magnaflow, I think cutting the fender makes the muffler look a lot better.

[03SilverBullet]

Question....How quiet will my car be with the stock resonator on and a muffler with a silencer?

[bfgoedeke]

I don't know if alot of people know this but, the reason you get a loss at the low end when changing to a cat-back system is, the stock muffler has a trap door that opens in the 3,000 - 4,000 rpm range. When its closed you got some low end punch. When you nail it, a bypass opens up, thereby reducing backpressure a bit, and shortening the path the exhaust gases flow through the baffles...In a sense you feel a slight "boost" when you accelerate. It would be interesting if someone could duplicate that in a cat-back system..

[fgummett]

I don't know if alot of people know this but, the reason you get a loss at the low end when changing to a cat-back system is, the stock muffler has a trap door that opens in the 3,000 - 4,000 rpm range. When its closed you got some low end punch. When you nail it, a bypass opens up, thereby reducing backpressure a bit, and shortening the path the exhaust gases flow through the baffles...In a sense you feel a slight "boost" when you accelerate. It would be interesting if someone could duplicate that in a cat-back system..

This makes sense of Fordfasterr's comment.... my understanding is that some back pressure is required (or at least expected) by the enigne management systems thus a straight through pipe can cause loss of power especially at lower revs. I just tried to research this on the web but I guess my physics isn't up to it ;-) Certainly at higher revs a straight through pipe or no muffler makse most sense... as they keep saying on Two Guys Garage, the engine is basically an air pump. But there are considerations such as overlap between exhaust and intake valves, scavenging and vacuum/pressure that rely on the muffler as part of the tuning.

[fgummett]

I think I get at least some of it now :
there is an overlap between the intake valves opening and the exhaust valves closing, obviously this overlap time is longer at lower revs... when you remove the muffler back-pressure you release the exhaust gases faster which can result in increased vacuum which can suck out some of the intake gas and air mixture before it's even had a chance to burn... the downstream O2 sensor reads this as rich and tries to lean out the mixture... thus the loss of power at lower revs. The overlap time gets shorter as the revs increase and then you get the full benefit of a free flowing exhaust. :rolleyes:

[OPZ]

Go with a magnaflow, deff. I have a model # 14801 and no other exhaust mods and it deff had a power improvement. As for who did it, well thats up to you. I took it to a local shop which just so happend to also specialize in Magnaflow's.

[ricerrx7]

when you remove the muffler back-pressure you release the exhaust gases faster which can result in increased vacuum which can suck out some of the intake gas and air mixture before it's even had a chance to burn... the downstream O2 sensor reads this as rich and tries to lean out the mixture...

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. Yes, you lose some unburned fuel and air out the exhaust, but it would read it as lean, not rich. O2 sensors ONLY measure O2. Nothing else. So eventhough there is more fuel in the exhaust, the ECM doesn't know this as there is no fuel sensor in the exhaust. It only sees the increase of O2 which would cause it to read lean. But the reason for the power loss at lower rpm is the fact that you are losing the unburned fuel and air out the exhaust. If someone got adjustable cam gears on both the intake AND exhaust cams, they could reduce the overlap and find a happy medium between low rpm and high rpm performance.

[fgummett]

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. Yes, you lose some unburned fuel and air out the exhaust, but it would read it as lean, not rich. O2 sensors ONLY measure O2. Nothing else. So eventhough there is more fuel in the exhaust, the ECM doesn't know this as there is no fuel sensor in the exhaust. It only sees the increase of O2 which would cause it to read lean. But the reason for the power loss at lower rpm is the fact that you are losing the unburned fuel and air out the exhaust. If someone got adjustable cam gears on both the intake AND exhaust cams, they could reduce the overlap and find a happy medium between low rpm and high rpm performance.

OK... thanks for the correction.... glad that I got some of it right though :redface:

[03SilverBullet]

Go with a magnaflow, deff. I have a model # 14801 and no other exhaust mods and it deff had a power improvement. As for who did it, well thats up to you. I took it to a local shop which just so happend to also specialize in Magnaflow's.
How does it sound?? and you dont have bigger piping or the resonator removed?

[03SilverBullet]

I have a question to all who have skills on exhaust.. How would our car with the second cat taken off, the resonator taken off and a glass pack put in its place and a regular plane jane muffler from meineke????

[OPZ]

How does it sound?? and you dont have bigger piping or the resonator removed?

Sorry I missed this, the sound is amazing. Deep and throaty the whole RPM range, untill the higher where my intake takes over. Everyone at the last pittsburgh meet liked it, haha. And no, I have no other exhaust mods. Only a performance muffler.