Doesn't hit as hard as it should...

[acarzt]

Alright soooo... i'm thinking maybe something is wrong... I have 2 Type R subs, each with their own 600 watts RMS amp... I have a 1 farad Capacitor and i'm using 4 GA wire from the battery to the cap. All fuses are good, everything is wired properly... so what could it be? My Rockford Fosgate P1's seemed to have hit harder and they were only 150 watts a piece and used the same Box. Is it perhaps my battery and such isn't strong enough?

[Blastation]

what size is the box and is it sealed or ported, do you have a hatcback or sedan. i have 1 12inch infinity and it rocks hard with just a puch 75

[acarzt]

sealed box, 1.25 cubic feet per chamber. Subs are firing at the trunk which is dynamatted... but either way, i had the P1's in the exact same configuration and they shook the car a lot more.

[hyunelan2]

Are you using the same amps as you had with your old subs? If the new subs 'can take' more power, they probably need more power to be pushed. i.e. 1 watt moved your old sub more than 1 watt can move your current sub.

Just a possibliity.

[metalfetish]

the other thing to look at the wont be the whole problem, but could be a contributing factor is, do the impedence (i.e. 1,2,4 ohms)on the subs, capacitor and amps all match? if they don't it will bog you system.

[korai9989]

what amp do you have with an rms of 600, cause i'm looking around myself.

[2loud2k2xd]

re-tune the amp. and what ohm load are the subs making the amp run at? and are they properly matched up (subs to amp)?

[acarzt]

it's a 600 watt Alpine mono amp running at 2 ohms, the Subs are dual 4 ohm subs. I used the Diagram on sound-domain AND i double check with what came with my subs/amps. I followed the directions to the T, it should be wired properly. There is a list of my parts here... http://www.elantraxd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14305

I did a lot of messing around with it. There was a setting on my HU that i changed and now it hits harder... but it stills seems like it should hit even harder than that... i means it's 1200 watts RMS... and it's still not quite up to the 300 my RF's put out...

I made this little thing in paint. The grey and red lines simulate the wires that actually CAME with the subs. Then the green wire is the wire going to the box and then of course to the amp. This is how my manual told me to wire it. If there is a better way to wire it please let me know.

From there I have a distribution block that has a single 4 Gauge in and 2 8 gauge out going the the amps(8 ga is the largest wire my amps will take) The dist block is fused too.

I also noticed i'm getting a LOT of noise from my alternator into 1 of my subs... i turn my music all the way down and 1 sub was making noise... turn the engine off, noise went away.

[chaos GT]

since only one of the subs is making the noise, definitely check the ground for that amp. a poor ground would cause engine noise and significantly reduce performance. also, if you have an alpine deck (don't remember) make sure to turn up the sub output to at least 10 or so (i think it goes to 15)

edit: one more ? what do you have the low pass filter set to on either the deck or amps?

[acarzt]

since only one of the subs is making the noise, definitely check the ground for that amp. a poor ground would cause engine noise and significantly reduce performance. also, if you have an alpine deck (don't remember) make sure to turn up the sub output to at least 10 or so (i think it goes to 15)

edit: one more ? what do you have the low pass filter set to on either the deck or amps?

yea, Alpine deck...
Bass = -2
Treble = 0
Sub = 15

I found the noise to be coming from the rca cables... i fixed that, noise is gone. Still ****ty performance. When i get time tomorrow i'm going to completely eliminate the cap and see what happens. The Frequency on the Sub amps are set to around 90 hz don't know the exact number. Gain is up to about 75%, 100% sounds distorted and doesn't really hit any harder. Checked all connections and they all seemed good.. i'm gonna sand some more paint off the grounding points and see what happens. Other than that, there's nothing i can think of. Checked all the fuses and they look good.

PS bass is set that low cuz the door speaker will distort if I go much higher. The music sounds best at that setting... cept that the subs don't hit hard enough lol

Also, even as weak as the subs are hitting they still start to distort once the music gets louder...this leads me to believe the problem is at or before the amps.

[metalfetish]

actually you know what it sounds like?? just humor double check to be 100% sure the speakers wires are correctly wired, it kinda sounds like the positive and negative are switched, especially the early distortion.

[acarzt]

So i looked up the recommended box size for my subs and for a sealed box it recommends .7-1 cu. ft... mine is 1.25 cu. ft. would that cause this effect? I can't imagine .25 cubic feet can make THAT HUGE of a difference.... bah just considering all possibilities *sigh*

actually you know what it sounds like?? just humor double check to be 100% sure the speakers wires are correctly wired, it kinda sounds like the positive and negative are switched, especially the early distortion.

I doubt it.. i checked like a million times before I even screwed the subs into the box... but worst case scenario i'll check that out... it would just be a PITA to pull the box out of the trunk, then the subs out the box just to find they're wired correctly lol.

[johnblaze94]

I think that your problem is that you aren't getting enough power to the amps. Adn with a stock charging system, you really cant. On mine, i have a second battery that has helped some with the power, but i know that with only 75A coming from the alternator, the 120A that the two amps want combined, (plus the 4 channel, and what the engine requires) there is simply not enogh electricity to push the amps fully. Be carefull with those amps tho, i blew one by "motorboating" it (not feeding it enoght power). If you are willing to risk it, try playing with the input sencitivity on the amps. And i know that sucks if you have to do it at the amps. damn tiny screws. If your near houston i can look at it with you so troubleshoot it against my setup.

[acarzt]

I think that your problem is that you aren't getting enough power to the amps. Adn with a stock charging system, you really cant. On mine, i have a second battery that has helped some with the power, but i know that with only 75A coming from the alternator, the 120A that the two amps want combined, (plus the 4 channel, and what the engine requires) there is simply not enogh electricity to push the amps fully. Be carefull with those amps tho, i blew one by "motorboating" it (not feeding it enoght power). If you are willing to risk it, try playing with the input sencitivity on the amps. And i know that sucks if you have to do it at the amps. damn tiny screws. If your near houston i can look at it with you so troubleshoot it against my setup.

Thanks for the input man, i'm not incredibly worried about breaking anything cuz i bought it all at best buy w/warranty, so if anything breaks it'll get fixed. It would still be a hassel and i'd have to wait for a while to get my amp back, but at least it wont cost me anything.

[Silver05GT]

The problem is simple man... The subs are wired wrong. Look at the specs of your amp. It is only 600W at 2 ohms. If you are running dual voice coil subs at 4 ohms per coil then you have the subs wired wrong. The way you have it wired now will keep the subs @ 4 ohms. You have the coils wired in parallel. They need to be wired in series for it to drop the load to 2 ohms. You should have the Neg from the amp going to the neg of the 1st coil, then jumper from the 1st coil + to the second coil -, then attach the incoming plus to the second coil. Only 1 jumper required, from the positive of the coil with the negative lead to the - of the coil with the positive lead.

This picture should help. Good luck man Let me know how those type-r subs hit!

[hyunelan2]

^^^Wouldn't that allow him to use only 1 amp though?

[Silver05GT]

Nope, Hyunelan2, If the subs he was using were both 4 ohm SINGLE voice coil subs, then yes he could use one amp. He is using DUAL voice coil subs with 1 amp per sub. The coils are what draw the power. It is like having the power and clarity of two subs. That diagram illustrates the wiring of one sub to one amp. In order to see the specified rating at 2 ohms, you must first be at a 2 ohm load. Wiring the two 4 ohm voice coils in series drops the total load for the sub to 2 ohms. :cool:

[hyunelan2]

gotcha, thanks. I'm no expert, but I know enough about audio to confuse myself a lot of the time.

[mlrman]

never had DVC subs....help me understand.

imagine his diagram as TWO seperate 4 ohm subs instead of two seperate voice coils. The way he has it wired (in paralel) on two seperate 4 ohm subs would generate a 2ohm load.

isn't this also the case with two 4 ohm voice coils?

hmmm, Iam gonna have to do some checking on this, I am curious.

good luck dude.

[acarzt]

The problem is simple man... The subs are wired wrong. Look at the specs of your amp. It is only 600W at 2 ohms. If you are running dual voice coil subs at 4 ohms per coil then you have the subs wired wrong. The way you have it wired now will keep the subs @ 4 ohms. You have the coils wired in parallel. They need to be wired in series for it to drop the load to 2 ohms. You should have the Neg from the amp going to the neg of the 1st coil, then jumper from the 1st coil + to the second coil -, then attach the incoming plus to the second coil. Only 1 jumper required, from the positive of the coil with the negative lead to the - of the coil with the positive lead.

This picture should help. Good luck man Let me know how those type-r subs hit!

You are incorrect sir. If i had a 4 ohm amp and dual 2 ohm sub that's how i would wire it. I have it wired correctly.

I FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM!!! It's something really stupid that shouldn't exist... or at least i don't think it should...

Anyway... so i was messing with some setting on the amps... I turned the frequency on one amp ALL the way up and it got rediculously loud... like blurred my vision loud lol...but it wasn't just ONE sub it made BOTH louder... hmmm so i turn the Frequency up on the other one and the Sub got quiet.. wtf? so i turned that one all the way down and they got loud again... and they weren't distorted or anything even with the gain ALL the way up. Anyway after playing with it a while i have one amp frequency all the way down and the other at about 160. Sounds good and hit hard as **** now... lol now my only new complaint is that my sun visors squeek now lol.

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP EVERYONE!!! Thanks especially to 2loud for suggesting to retune the amps heh.

Now can anyone explain why this happened?

[mlrman]

I thought you had them wired correctly especially after looking at the "sub wiring sticky" posted here.

but something doesn't make sense....if you have each sub powered by seperate amps then adjusting the crossover point on amp #1 would have nothing to do with the crossover point on amp #2! or the gain setting for that matter.

is your sub box sperated for each sub, or do they share the same space?

how are you running your signal wire to the amps? 2 sets, or r u using a pass-thru?

as for crossover point, I usually set mine around 120hz to deliver more bass. anything above that seems to deliver too much sloppy mid bass. I also set the mids to around 90hz high pass so there is some overlap there.

[chaos GT]

are the rcas daisychained? ie, do you have rcas from hu -> amp 1 in and then amp 1 out -> amp 2 in

if this is the case, sometimes the amp only puts out on the rca the opposite of what it puts to the speakers. that is worded badly.

in other words, if the low pass is set to 80, it'll put out 80 and down to the sub and 80 and up to the rca output.

so if your hu is low passed at 80 or so, the first amp will work fine, but the second would be receiving almost no signal.

[mlrman]

are the rcas daisychained? ie, do you have rcas from hu -> amp 1 in and then amp 1 out -> amp 2 in

if this is the case, sometimes the amp only puts out on the rca the opposite of what it puts to the speakers. that is worded badly.

in other words, if the low pass is set to 80, it'll put out 80 and down to the sub and 80 and up to the rca output.

so if your hu is low passed at 80 or so, the first amp will work fine, but the second would be receiving almost no signal.

yeah yeah, that is what I was getting at with my "pass-thru" question to the poster, thanks chaos. acarzt, are your RCA's running from one amp to the other?

[acarzt]

lol Each sub is in a seperate chamber. With the RCA cables i have a left channel and a right channel coming from the deck... then i have a splitter at the end of each channel going into the amp...if that makes sense. By all logic, the way it is wired this should not be happenings lol... The gain on each amp is independant from one an other... but somehow the frequency acts as an other gain so to say for BOTH subs at the same time. It's REALLY wierd...

I'll draw something up in paint in a minute...

Alright following the Diagram i drew... That is the Left and right sub out going to my left and right amps... The left channel is then split to accomidate the left and right channel inputs on the left amp. Same goes for the Other Amp cept replace left with right lol.

Also... i have a very off topic question lol Is it safe for a grounding point to get wet or submersed in water while the elctrical equipment it's grounding is running? the reason i ask is because one of the points in the engine bay i was going to use will be exposed to rain and probably water from when i'm washing the car.

[johnblaze94]

if i were you i would run the rcas to one amp and then use the pass thru instead of dividing the hu's signal. you will get a cleaner sound with this setup.

[hyunelan2]

..^agreed, but if you're going to use the splitter like you are, I would personally run a L&R signal to each amp, and not just double up the left signal to one, and right signal to another. This will make the subs have the same signal, and they will 'work together' with less of a chance of destructive interference.

[jpjr]

Acarzt, remove the splitters and plug the rcas into the left input of each amp. You are putting the subs out of phase in the input section of the amp by using the splitters the way you are. If you must use the splitters, use a left AND right rca input for each amp.

[mlrman]

have you ever considered using an active crossover? this would allow you to "split the signal" and you could adjust both output signal levels and crossover points. In your case, both outputs would be set with even output levels and crossover points.

I was stuck with only one set of pre amp outs for years and I used a $100 dollar MTX crossover to split signals to two amps and that system rocked!

By splitting the signals like you are I would imagine this also cuts the voltage output of the head unit's pre amp outs.

[acarzt]

no pass through

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2005/500/h500mrpm650-i.jpeg

[jpjr]

Trust me on this. It is real easy to try. Remove the splitters, and plug the left RCA into one amps left input. Then plug the right RCA into the other amps left input. If this does not fix it, then reverse the phase of one of your subs. The reason the volume changes when you play with the frequency of the crossover is your subs are out of phase and when you change the frequency, they either start to play different frequencies then each other(sound gets louder since since these frequencies are only played by one sub and the other sub can not cancel them) or they play the same frequencies(volume lowers since the subs are out of phase and playing the same frequencies). Try turning one amp off. This will probably give you decent results also, but still not as good as both subs and amps working in proper phase.

[acarzt]

Trust me on this. It is real easy to try. Remove the splitters, and plug the left RCA into one amps left input. Then plug the right RCA into the other amps left input. If this does not fix it, then reverse the phase of one of your subs. The reason the volume changes when you play with the frequency of the crossover is your subs are out of phase and when you change the frequency, they either start to play different frequencies then each other(sound gets louder since since these frequencies are only played by one sub and the other sub can not cancel them) or they play the same frequencies(volume lowers since the subs are out of phase and playing the same frequencies). Try turning one amp off. This will probably give you decent results also, but still not as good as both subs and amps working in proper phase.

I tried your first suggestion, all it did was make the subs quieter, and they sounded exactly the same. I'm not really worried about it, cuz they sound great with no distortion the way i have it wired.

lol, what's funny tho is when i'm in my car with the music blasting everything is incredibly loud and it shakes the hell out of everything. Then when i get out of my car with the music still going, it's farely quiet, you can't feel the bass, but you can hear the trunk rattle when you walk around to the back. But then when i walk into the house... everything on the walls are shaking lol and you can feel the bass lol it's a very wierd effect. :-P