Hyundai Sonata

[04GTboySC]

Wow, I absolutely love this rental car

my car is at the dealer for warrenty work and they loaned me this 06 sonata gls V6 and it even has a sunroof ... i can do without the leather

i love this car, im guessing its like graphite gray ... i will take pics shortly please ignore the dirtyness they didnt have time to wash it before i got there :( i would wash it but htats stupid since its a rental right guys?

i have it for about 2 or 3 days.. i think i will stop modding my elantra and save up for a sonata or somthing else

[03SilverBullet]

Ehh id rather have the v6 tibby.

[04GTboySC]

yea me to but insurance is so high for those :(

[pjc6281]

I love the new sonata v6, but it would have to have just a lip kit on it to give it a sporty look, kinda like some euro sedans

[04GTboySC]

o ya just minor mods like tinted windows and a spoiler that sorta thing.. doesnt need anything preformance wise

[SuperGLS]

Scott, yeah, they are nice. The color is called Steel Gray.

Ehh id rather have the v6 tibby.

Have you driven the NF with the Lambda?

[WytchDctr]

Turn in sucks, e-throttle sucks, interior sucks, radio sucks, etc... IMO to me it was like driving a yota. Yes it was quick but.. eh.

I had a chance to get one for a good price but I stuck with my paid off elantra.

[03SilverBullet]

Scott, yeah, they are nice. The color is called Steel Gray.



Have you driven the NF with the Lambda?
Nah.. I just dont like how it looks.. The quickness of the 6 is great but its a "old man" car IMO.

[txdproject]

i like the 02's for the sonata... its a really nice design...welll really anything up to the new body style... even then i like that as well but the body style before was really really nice

[04GTboySC]

ya i can understand, it mite be powerful but the steering sucks i probably wont get one but im just lucky to be trying it out

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/04gtboyVA/2006_0523rentalcar523060001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/04gtboyVA/2006_0523rentalcar523060002edit.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/04gtboyVA/2006_0523rentalcar523060003.jpg

and no i didnt wash the car, my sister just washed hers and i wanted to take a different picture

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/04gtboyVA/2006_0523rentalcar523060004.jpg

[ricerrx7]

Those wheels suck, but other than that I would take it!

[Keyan]

Looks good. the car is in for the crankshaft endplay, eh?

[04GTboySC]

yea there was actually a recall on my car i wasnt aware of.. i will get the full run down tomorrow i think

[SuperGLS]

I liked both when I test drove them (the Theta and Lambda).

I agree, the GLS V6 wheels are poop. I'd get an LX. Right now there is $2500 an LX, that's a great deal. At first I didn't see many, but over the last couple months it seems as if they are everywhere. Good for Hyundai.

[pjc6281]

Hey GTboy let me know what that recall is for, i have an 04 and am curious as hell, not another air bag recall is it???

[04GTboySC]

i will find out when i speak to the folks again

[hyunelan2]

Ehh id rather have the v6 tibby.

The delta V6 engine sucks balls!


-you guys can't say you didn't see that coming from me?

[ilanpro]

If you get a Sonata get the works, Dude you should have no problem getting one.

[04GTboySC]

yea if i were to get one it would be the model above this one minus the leather interior i find this cloth more comfy than the leather in my elantra

[hyunelan2]

You can't. If you get the LX, it automatically has leather. If you get the GLS V6 (what you have), it does not have the following, even as options (all standard on the LX trim):

- Leather seating surfaces
- Heated front seats
- Power driver seat
- 17” euroflange alloy wheels with Michelin® tires
- Automatic temperature control
- Air quality system
- Auto-dimming inside rearview mirror/HomeLink®/compass
- Sliding center armrest
- Telescoping steering wheel
- Chrome exterior door handles

Basically, it's all or none. The model levels are GL, GLS 4-cyl, GLS V6, LX.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

My best friend just bought an 06 LX with the 17's. Bad car. Makes the Delta in the tibby feel like an excel motor. Plus it handles as good if not better to boot.

But hey, the Tibby at least "looks" fast which is great for posers! lol

[hyunelan2]

Yea, the Delta engine in the Tib is a joke in comparison to the 2.4 Theta and especially the 3.3 Lambda. The 4cyl Theta has only 10hp less than the slow-revving, no-low-end-torque, gutless-wonder that the V6 Delta is. The 3.3L lambda eclipses the Delta by by 63HP (235), has decent low-end torque, and is much smoother revving.

I agree with Bob in the only thing the Tib's got going is looks. If you want a looker, not a driver, get the Tib - if you want the better car, get the Sonata.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I knew I liked you for a reason . . . .

[CTele02]

Well the Tib handles awesomely as well... and even if it is "under powered" stock, it can see big improvements from simple bolt on N/A mods unlike the BetaII...

[BobMs_wht2k2]

After driving both the Tib and the Sonata, the Tib is not only underpowered but it's also outgunned. I don't know what the "official" on paper numbers say but I know in feel the Sonata is much easier to toss around. It's a lot more responsive.

[CTele02]

Are you comparing the 03 tib GK gen with the 06 sonata NF gen because alot happens in two-three years... and the delta v6 doesnt even have CVVT in those years of tibs... lets wait until next gen Tib and then we can truly compare...

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I'm comparing current car to current car. Comparing current car to "fantasy car" is kinda hard as we have yet to see the next generation of Tib. But if you were to go to the dealer TODAY the Sonata would be the better performer in all the above.

[CTele02]

Im just saying that THIS YEAR tib was developed perhaps 3-4years ago.... its an exiting model... obviously it wont as great as a Newer model Sonata that came out a year ago.

IF hyundai is wise they will use the lambda in the next gen Tib and it will be a better performer than this Sonata. THEN we can compare.

[hyunelan2]

The problem with the Delta engine (I own one, so feel I can speak on this), is that it has no power below 3000rpm. Then, all the sudden you get in the 3200 RPM range, and you get a surge of torque, generating torque steer and wierd uneven feelings. The new line of engines (theta, lambda) are much more even througout the RPM band, and give you not only low-RPM power, but smooth increases in power across the throttle-band.

As far as handling, the Tib is a small, lightweight car and handles like one. The Sonata, being bigger and not so nible, gets its benefits from Electronic Stability Control. Having drove both, I would say they are equally agile, although the Tib barely beats the sonata on the skidpad .82g to .79g.

If you're buying a new car, you look at what's available today, not in 3 years from now IF they make another Tib. Today, there are 2 cars in Hyundais lineup that outperform the Tib (Sonata & Azera).

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Damn. . . you gotta stop that! Yeah, read that last line, it goes double for me.

Its sad that the "sports car" gets it's butt handed to it by the "luxury" car and the "family sedan". Kinda sad, ya know?

[CTele02]

What I seriously dont get is you guys are comparing different generations and different categories of cars... you can do the same for alot of models like for example: A hybrid v6 accord has more hp than the s2000... well duh becuz they have TWO DIFFERENT ENGINES... i dont understand why you are comparing deltas to lambdas.... Deltas= Old and on its way out, Lambdas = New... so If the new Tiburon has the Lambda... you cant really rant on them anymore lol...

[pjc6281]

I agree guys, but i think you are comparing apples and oranges. THe tib competes well for cars in its class and price range such as Spec V, Civic, RSX ( DEAD ), MItsu ralliart. The Sonata is in the class with accord, camry, altima. I totaly agree that hyundais only sports car should be a bit faster than its mid level sedan. The delta has great low end torque cause its a v6, doesnt matter how inefficient it is, but the high end dies out cause of the lack of any variable valve system. The tib is burdend by old technology so its hard to have this discussion at the moment until they can refresh that platform IMHO. But as of now im sure the sonata spanks it, havent driven the sonata yet. Just wish us EXD guys had the aftermarket the tib has :(

[CTele02]

We actually DO have their aftermarket... the i4 GK has the same engine and mostly transmission as us... they have the same suspension as well... so you can upgrade your power and handlings to as much as a Gk tiburon can... the only thing we lack is their vast amount of appearance mods and engine bay space.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Hey silly, we're comparing them because they are CURRENT. Also, the S2000 doesn't get it's but handed to it by the Accord either.

Like I said before, you have to compare current to current, and the current tibs suck. Whatever they MIGHT do is that, a pipe dream. Nothing more.

[04GTboySC]

i dunno after driving this car i think im just gona stop modding the elantra, basically you can get a stock car like this and not have to worry about having issues with any mods im gona save up for a car like this down the road

ok i gota go return this beast :-( they called and said my car is fixed i will get what the recall was while im there

[BobMs_wht2k2]

As for the Tib and it's class, the RSX spanked it, the Spec V spanks it, but is technically an Elantra Competitor as is the Civic. So against the Eclipse, the RSX and the Golf, it loses it's azz. Sorry folks, Tib owns nothing. It's always been an "almost" car.

[CTele02]

Its always been cheaper than the competition as well, thus you have left over money for modding...
Tiburon: http://hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/tiburon/tiburon.aspx
Delta 2.7 V6: 18,495 retail
Sonata: http://hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/sonata/sonata.aspx
Lambda 3.3 V6: 20,895 retail
Azera: http://hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/azera/azera.aspx
Lambda 3.8 V6: 24,335 retail

These are the prices for the base V6 models of these cars.
Im pretty sure if you went with a Tib and with that "leftover" money you could mod it up to have the same/better performance than the Sonata/Azera.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

You'd have to save about $9k to get a GK to drive like an RSX-s. Then you lose your warranty because nothing is left untouched.

I personally always felt the GK's were overpriced. $22k for a GT 6-spd? Nuts I tell ya.

[hyunelan2]

We are comparing these cars because they're in the catagory of "currently available Hyundai" and because somebody brought up earlier that they'd rather have a Tib than the Sonata, which lead to comparison between those two cars.


The delta has great low end torque(

Umm... WHAT?!?!?! The Delta has so little low-end torque it makes me cry. Everytime I drive my wife's car, I pray I have enough time to get up to the torque curve before oncoming traffic takes me out. That engine plain-out sucks.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I concur. Add in the weight of a Sante Fe and these things couldn't pull themselves through a wet paper bag.

[CTele02]

DUH ITS AN SUV!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats why there is the 3.5L Sigma for the Santa Fe since they realize the Delta is the BASE for the Sante fe...

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Actually, the 2.4L mitsu derived 4cyl used to be the base engine. the 01-05's all had the GL base with the 2.4 as standard. I personally thought it had more low end than the delta. . .of course that's not saying much.

[hyunelan2]

^^^Exactly, and the SF isn't even all that heavy. She didn't want the 3.5L for fuel reasons, and there was no-way I was getting the SF with the 4cyl (you still could in '04), which left the 2.7. It can actually pull the vehicle very well, but not until 3200RPM. Below that, you might as well get out and push. Aside from that, I also frequently drive my Uncle's '04 Sonata, which is Delta-based and suffers from the same problems as the other cars powered by the Delta.

As for Tib and competitors, C&D only did one review I know of with the Tib in it, that was in 2002. It finished 4th of 5.

I personally think a lot of you guys WANT the Tib to be awesome, which is good that your heart is in it for Hyundai... but on paper (and driving), the car really isn't all that impressive.

[CTele02]

They did a 2002 review on the 2003 tib?

I've read a more recent review where the lap time of a NA modded tib on a track was 1 second below that of a corvette on the same track. But any modded tib is way under the price of a stock corvette... (start at like 44k+)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0207_2003_hyundai_tiburon_gt_v6/

[hyunelan2]

Yes, lol. The new Tiburon was available for purchase in the late spring of 2002 as a 2003 model. I looked at it when I bought my Elantra in June of 02. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2373/four-wedges-a-bubble.html

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Correct. Since we had no 02 Tib's, they actually started hitting our showrooms in Mar/Apr of 02 and they called them an 03. It was a wierd timefor Hyundai. A lot of wierd things were going on in the dealerships.

[CTele02]

My bad the article actually reads:
"The FWD, underdog, 2.7L/240-hp V-6 Tiburon race car outpaced the mighty RWD, 5.7L/385-hp V-8 Corvette Z06 by 1.7 sec."

"the $19,000 production car's best lap improved to a 1:03.18, or just 1.5 sec off the $57,000 Porsche. Astounding."

"WHAT'S HOT

Quickest FWD car tested

Fastest slalom ever in FWD

Easiest-to-drive real race car

WHAT'S NOT

Doesn't wake up until lap four

Team needs more factory support

Team doesn't need more drivers"

This was in July 2003 by MotorTrend

[BobMs_wht2k2]

So, to borrow your phrase. . . they tested it against the "old technology" vette. :D The new C5 came out in 05 and is a lot better than the old.

Also, just becasue they can build a "race car" tib doesn't mean A.) it can hold up in the real world and B.) be livable on a daily basis.

The kicker. . .the V6 tibs were/are gas hogs! The V8 vettes get BETTER gas mileage!

[pjc6281]

Does your wife have a tib, if so is it auto or manny? check this link out, i dont think this is terrible torque for a car in its class,tib dyno (http://www.aempower.com/pdf/dyno/21-521%202003%20Hyundai%20Tiburon%20V6%20CAS.pdf)

the spec V is on par with the tib. dont 'want ' the tib to be awsome cause its not but its not as trashy as u guys are making it sound :) Its just a budget sports car much like all of hyundais line, its the better value of the competition. Not really ment to compete amongst its peers, right?

[CTele02]

THIS was back in july 03! Ya and i really dont understand why you bash the tib so much....

[hyunelan2]

pjc: looking at those hp/torque curves - you see how it jumps up really quick at the 3250RPM mark - that's what I can't stand. I hate how uneven the curves are on the Delta. The Tib, Santa Fe, and EF Sonata all had identical things happening with the power curves.

We (Bob and I) aren't 'bashing the tib so much'. The discussion started out as Sonata Vs. Tib, I threw in how much the Delta sucks, and here we are. The Delta Engine is what I hate, not the Tiburon. The 4-cyl tib is pretty neat IMO.


EDIT: After re-examining the torque-curve chart, maybe it isn't a lack of low-end-torque, but the fact that the curve is basically a flat-line before 3250rpm. That's why it feels like then engine isn't reving up, because there is similar torque generated all the way up until it makes it's giant jump at 3250.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I thinkI can attest for most of us in the dealerships at the time the Tibs came out. We were all a bit disappointed. They were nice, but the 6-spd had trans/clutch issues and were never truly as quick as they looked.

I'm just saying to dismiss the Sonata and say the Tib is better is a bit narrow minded. The ONLY thing it really excels at is looks, and at my size the Tib is a very uncomfortable car.

[pjc6281]

pjc: looking at those hp/torque curves - you see how it jumps up really quick at the 3250RPM mark - that's what I can't stand. I hate how uneven the curves are on the Delta. The Tib, Santa Fe, and EF Sonata all had identical things happening with the power curves.

We (Bob and I) aren't 'bashing the tib so much'. The discussion started out as Sonata Vs. Tib, I threw in how much the Delta sucks, and here we are. The Delta Engine is what I hate, not the Tiburon. The 4-cyl tib is pretty neat IMO.


EDIT: After re-examining the torque-curve chart, maybe it isn't a lack of low-end-torque, but the fact that the curve is basically a flat-line before 3250rpm. That's why it feels like then engine isn't reving up, because there is similar torque generated all the way up until it makes it's giant jump at 3250.

TOtally agree bud, uneven torque curve is one thing but the lack there of isnt the case, hyudai definetly coulda but a little cvvt action in it to help that :). But yea it can be a frustrating car to drive, especially not having an lsd.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

How 'bout a compromise. . . there is a huge lack of USABLE torque. Since tq is what gets the car moving from a rest, having it above 3000rpms is not only useless but pointless.

[CTele02]

TOtally agree bud, uneven torque curve is one thing but the lack there of isnt the case, hyudai definetly coulda but a little cvvt action in it to help that :). But yea it can be a frustrating car to drive, especially not having an lsd.
The new MU engine that will be in the new Sante Fe base models is a Delta on CVVT.
http://www.hyundainews.com/presskit2007/07SantaFe_Specs.html
185hp@6k and 183tq@4k, also CVVT is known to "smooth out" the torque curve as it did with the BetaII (I personally owned a 02 elantra and now my 05 elantra) I noticed the smoother difference.

Also if there is a 6speed MU version of the tiburon... it should be able to squeeze out some more performance.

[hyunelan2]

It will be interesting to see what CVVT can do for the Delta. I wonder if any tib owners will be scheming up ways to upgrade their Deltas with the Mu CVVT?

For anyone who cares, the GLS will get the 2.7, while the SE and Limited versions of hte new Santa Fe will have the 3.3L Lambda.

2.7-Liter V6 Santa Fe GLS

Type Hyundai Mu DOHC V6 (transverse mounted)

Materials Aluminum block/aluminum cylinder heads

Bore and Stroke 86.7mm x 75.0mm

Displacement 2.7 liters

Compression Ratio 10:4:1

Horsepower 185 6,000rpm

Torque 183 lb-ft 4,000rpm

Valves per cylinder 4


3.3-Liter V6 Santa Fe SE and Limited

Type Hyundai Lambda DOHC V6 (transverse mounted)

Materials Aluminum block/aluminum cylinder heads

Bore and Stroke 92.0mm x 83.8mm

Displacement 3.3 liters

Horsepower 242 6,000rpm

Compression Ratio 10:4:1

Torque 226lb-ft 4,500rpm

Valves per cylinder 4

[pjc6281]

Hey Ctele02 do u have any info on that engine like a page or somthing, i would like to see what it can do.

Bob i think it has decent torque before that mark, for a small 6, but i do agree with hyunelan that it is unproportional. Generaly that size of a v6 is used for F/I applications.

Edit sorry Ctele i had temporary blindness and didnt see the link :)

[CTele02]

Hey Ctele02 do u have any info on that engine like a page or somthing, i would like to see what it can do.

Bob i think it has decent torque before that mark, for a small 6, but i do agree with hyunelan that it is unproportional. Generaly that size of a v6 is used for F/I applications.
I posted the Hyundai news press link.. thats all there is to show for the Sante Fe since it isnt out... yet.

And I dont know about CVVT conversion to a non-CVVT thats like doing the conversion for the non CVVT BetaII in the end.... For BetaII's the gain is like 3hp and 3tq for ALOT of work... while for the delta its like 12hp and 2tq.... but the smoothing out of the torque band would help in N/A... since there might be problems with the CVVT and S/C or Turbo.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

MAybe I'm just too used to the durable GM 6's that make killer low end torque. What they lack in topend the more than make up in the bottom end.

To me, high RPM running is ok for playing, but not for everyday. I'm just getting to "practical" I guess.

[CTele02]

Yes and that is why GM is having record sales while Hyundai is losing its hold on the market so it needs to put out employee discounts :) oh wait, or is it the other way around?

[pjc6281]

lolololol, that one made me laugh out loud at work, im so busted

[hyunelan2]

The build of their engines have nothing to do with why GM has sucked lately. They still have very good engines, although most are of older design. It's a lot of other factors that are hurting GMs cars. Low end torque is where it's at.

[SuperGLS]

Hmm.

This went off topic twice, pretty interesting. I'm going to close it up. We can start other threads for Santa Fe and Tiburon and Sonata topics.