Help me pick...

[Rdizziedog]

My friend Sam knows a bunch of guys that run a place, Sound Solutions, in Chantilly, VA. Because I went in there with him they knocked off a bunch of money on each item. Two guys came up with two different setups for me, and want me to pick which one I'm going to get. I need help choosing which one.

First setup:
Powerbase 400/2 SUB AMP 800 MAX (SERIAL NO. XTA-400.2) - $159.99
SUBZONE DUAL 12SEALED (SERIAL NO. CH212) - $119.99
2X MTX Thunder4000 12" 4 OHM SUB WOOFERS (SERIAL NO. T4124A) - $110x2 = $220
MOBILESPEC 4 GUAGE AMP KIT (ICEAWK4) $69

Total: $597.43 after tax


Second setup:
Powerbase 400/2 SUB AMP 800 MAX (SERIAL NO. XTA-400.2) - $159.99
SUBZONE DUAL 10SEALED (SERIAL NO. CH210) - $109.99
2X MTX Thunder4500 10" 4 OHM SUB WOOFERS (SERIAL NO. T4510-04) - $100x2 = $200
MOBILESPEC 4 GUAGE AMP KIT (ICEAWK4) - $69

Total: $565.93 after tax

Both have the same amp, which can be found here: http://www.powerbassusa.com/products/amplifiers/asa_class_ab.html

Only thing different is the subs and box. Let me know what you guys think I should get, if either.

Thanks.

[mlumz]

I prefer 12", they give a deeper bass but take up a lot more space.

[templedogg]

Depends on the music you listen too. If you listen to more rock, get the 10s. They are quicker and hit without as much distortion. If you like Rap and hiphop get the 12s. They will move more air and make more noise.

[hatda02]

Neither.

I do not like MTX and don't think they are of high quality.

You said they knocked money off? You better do your home work. I can get the same subs shipped from cructchfield for less than their "deal". And most people who know electronics know their prices are about the highest you will find. (but they make up for their prices is support and included accessories)

Powerbase amp? I have never heard of the brand and I've been doing audio for 10+ years. Browse around their website you linked. Is it just me or is a majority of it under construction? Not real professional and does not sound like a company that will be around a year from now.

A pre-fab enclosure is a pre-fab enclosure. Someone will build you a custom one for about the same price...or study a little and build your own for half.

Not all wire is the same and that kit is going to be junk. Buy name brand: Stinger, Esoteric, Rockford.

You're not getting a deal at all. That money will go a long way towards quality products.

[Vampyrate]

10" offers more of a "punch to the chest" feeling while 12" give you that deep tone.

think of it this way, the smaller the sub, the more it's gonna "pop" with the music, while the larger the sub, the deeper tone you are gonna get.

[mlrman]

I've never heard of powerbass amps either, although there are new brands popping up every day. The website does have contruction, as listed above. But most of it is there.

I do like the large hootered blonde on their website, construction is DONE there, lol. A hot babe is always good for sales, hehe.

I am always skeptical of a salesman's "deal" whether you know him, his buddy, his dog, or whatever....and I am a salesman!!!

here's what I notice about your system, regardless of price, brand, blondes, whatever:

those speakers aren't well matched with the amp. you need to maximaize the power of that amp by not using 4 ohm per channel, but bringing the impedance load to 2 ohm per channel (400 watts total) or 2 subs at 4ohms into one channel (400 watts total).

the way they have proposed is one 4 ohm sub per channel, which will result in only 100 watts each, totaling only 200 watts.

If.....if.....if you get this system, get dual voice coil subs and get the wattage you pay for.

good luck man

Neither.

I do not like MTX and don't think they are of high quality.

Not all wire is the same and that kit is going to be junk. Buy name brand: Stinger, Esoteric, Rockford.

You're not getting a deal at all. That money will go a long way towards quality products.

I agree with all three statements above, with personal experiences building these opinions. Learn from our experiences, man.

[Rdizziedog]

Well since no one likes the ideas that they threw at me, how about you guys help me pick out some stuff? My budget is about $600 (it was $400, but then realized I wouldn't get much for that), and my friends and I will be doing the install. I listen to 80% rap, 20% rock, so let's go with something that will mainly be for rap/hip hop.

Links, model #s, anything would be appreciated. I just want to figure out what options I have before I throw down so much cash. I don't know much about audio **** for cars, if I did, I wouldn't be asking for help.

Thanks in advance.

[mlrman]

I don't know much about audio **** for cars, if I did, I wouldn't be asking for help. Thanks in advance.

ya gotta learn somewhere, man. and it's best to learn by doing.

that said.....

what are you trying to do? the system you were looking at consists of an amp, subs, and a box. do you have any mids and highs, or are they stock? do you plan on adding them eventually? what head unit do you have? do you plan on running RCA's for an amp? your profile says u r rolling in a 05 Elantra....sedan or hatchback?

tell us what ya got and what ya wanna do, and you will probably get a LOT of opinions. and always think ahead, too. What you install today will affect what you install down the road.

[Rdizziedog]

I have everything stock in my car other than my headunit, which is a Pioneer DEH-P7700MP. I do plan on upgrading my speakers eventually (a ways down the road, year+) but do not know what I'll be doing, money is a serious setback. I have no clue if I plan on running RCA's for an amp? I have an 05 Sedan. Like I said I listen to mostly hip hop / rap and want something that will bump real nice.

Thanks for the help.

[2loud2k2xd]

yeas, you will use rca's for the amp. just run them off the pre-amp outputs on the back of the deck. and good choice on the 7700mp, i have the 960mp :D

and what you buddys have is ****, garbage, dime store crap. get 2 12's and youll be happier. i had 2 12" alpine type E's and loved them. had a mtx 4201 amp pushing them. go to CC i bet you get a better price than they give you. alos, i have a 4ga amp kit with 02 free power wire and monster zero noise competition rca wire, 4ga ground and 16ga remote wire for sale (not listed in my FS thread). let me know

[Rdizziedog]

yeas, you will use rca's for the amp. just run them off the pre-amp outputs on the back of the deck. and good choice on the 7700mp, i have the 960mp :D

and what you buddys have is ****, garbage, dime store crap. get 2 12's and youll be happier. i had 2 12" alpine type E's and loved them. had a mtx 4201 amp pushing them. go to CC i bet you get a better price than they give you. alos, i have a 4ga amp kit with 02 free power wire and monster zero noise competition rca wire, 4ga ground and 16ga remote wire for sale (not listed in my FS thread). let me know

Got any ideas for an amp, 2 12's, a box, and wiring for $600 or less? I know you're pretty much the audio expert on here from what I've seen in the past.

[2loud2k2xd]

2 alpine type E's in a Qlocic box, a mtx 4201 sub amp, and ill sell you the amp kit for 65.00 shipped and ill include 12ga sub to amp speaker wire. you should be able to get the subs and amp from CC for about 450.00 or less.i had these in my xd a long time ago and they hit decent, but not as hard as my current set-up. or you could sspend 1300.00 and pick up my audio w/a soloX and a 2400 watt sub amp 2nd battery, all wiring needed. :)



check these sites out for great deals
http://www.carsound.com/forum/

http://www.diald.com/usaci/index.php?sid=511d254e042e4fb49db8c753cda794fe

these are a couple sound forums im on..same screen name. 2loud2k2xd
go to the for sale sections

[Rdizziedog]

2 alpine type E's in a Qlocic box, a mtx 4201 sub amp, and ill sell you the amp kit for 65.00 shipped and ill include 12ga sub to amp speaker wire. you should be able to get the subs and amp from CC for about 450.00 or less.i had these in my xd a long time ago and they hit decent, but not as hard as my current set-up. or you could sspend 1300.00 and pick up my audio w/a soloX and a 2400 watt sub amp 2nd battery, all wiring needed. :)



check these sites out for great deals
http://www.carsound.com/forum/

http://www.diald.com/usaci/index.php?sid=511d254e042e4fb49db8c753cda794fe

these are a couple sound forums im on..same screen name. 2loud2k2xd
go to the for sale sections

Thanks for all the info again. I've been looking into the items you reccomended. So far I've found:

2x Alpine SWE-1242 12" 4-ohm subwoofer for $150 on crutchfield (backorder, will be in on 6/16)
Q-Logic QLH-1.0012DS Type 1 dual 12" hatchback box for $150 on crutchfield

I could not find an mtx 4201 amp ANYWHERE. Are you sure those are the right numbers?

So far without the amp the price is $365 for the two subs, box, and the wire that you have. That leaves about $235 for the amp... I couldn't find the subs at CC, I even called. Any other ideas for an amp, or places to find the subs/box at for cheaper? Thanks for the links to those sites, I'm finding some cool things that I may want to buy!

[mc87yanks]

Thanks for all the info again. I've been looking into the items you reccomended. So far I've found:

2x Alpine SWE-1242 12" 4-ohm subwoofer for $150 on crutchfield (backorder, will be in on 6/16)
Q-Logic QLH-1.0012DS Type 1 dual 12" hatchback box for $150 on crutchfield

I could not find an mtx 4201 amp ANYWHERE. Are you sure those are the right numbers?

So far without the amp the price is $365 for the two subs, box, and the wire that you have. That leaves about $235 for the amp... I couldn't find the subs at CC, I even called. Any other ideas for an amp, or places to find the subs/box at for cheaper? Thanks for the links to those sites, I'm finding some cool things that I may want to buy!

Check out Ikesound.com or discountjungle.net.

I got most of my stuff on those places. Much cheaper than most places.

I put a 12" Type R sub in my Elantra in an Alpine box ($200 at Sixth Ave) and the s**t hits hard.

[Rdizziedog]

I just found two deals on Crutchfield which seem very tempting. I talked to a sales rep, Rusty, and he said that once the Alpine SWE-1242 12" subs are delivered to them and are made available on 6/15/06, these combo deals will become back in-stock.

What do you guys think of these deals?

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-09yLtjAMuUD/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?search=SWE%2D1242&i=700ALPPKG6
Package includes Alpine MRP-M450 amp (400 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms), two SWE-1242 12" subwoofers (power range 50-250 watts RMS each), and Q-Logic QLH-12D125 dual sub box.
$379.99 + $65 for 2loud's wiring = $444.99

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-09yLtjAMuUD/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?search=SWE%2D1242&i=700ALPPKG2
Package includes Alpine MRP-F450 amp (200 watts RMS x 2 at 4 ohms), two SWE-1242 12" subwoofers (power range 50-250 watts RMS each), and Q-Logic QLH-12D125 dual sub box.
$449.99 + $65 for 2loud's wiring = $514.99

Both of these are way below my $600 limit that I set, below the prices that Sound Solutions quoted me, plus they are all name brand items unlike the items in the deals that Sound Solution's gave me.

Also, since I'm doing the install on my own with some friends, do you guys think I should buy these two items that are reccomended by Crutchfield?

Poly-Fil Stuffing:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-09yLtjAMuUD/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=027808
Box Brackets:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-09yLtjAMuUD/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=125B702KIT

Please let me know what you guys think of these two combo deals that I found on Crutchfield.

[2loud2k2xd]

pick the 1st one on the list.

[Rdizziedog]

Any particular reason you chose the deal with the MRP-M450 amp deal over the MRP-F450 amp deal? The subs and the combo deals all became in-stock today (a week earlier than scheduled!) and if you think they are a good deal I'll order it ASAP. 2loud, both deals have 2x of the subs you said I should get and a q-logic box, which you also said I should get. Since I couldn't find the amp you suggested, is the amp in the first deal good for these subs? Thanks for all of your help!

[2loud2k2xd]

it looks like both power outputs on both subs are equal (200rms per channel). therefor picking the set-up with the lower cost would be best, and they have the same power output.

also, just looking at the amp output, you dont want a 4ohm load on an amp if you can get a 2 ohm load. lower ohm loads = less work the amp has to do to get the same end result.

i have my amp at 1 ohm for 2400 continous and the gain is barely over 1/4 turn from its lowest setting. but i do tweak it more for comps.

[kizzo]

not tryin to but in or discourage you from any deals, but why would you pick any of those packages?

I think itd be relatively easy to find a package twice as strong and as good or better quality then alpine.

I own a pair of those swe's and dont get me wrong theyre good speakers, but for the price i tihnk you can get something better.

subs (all im sure can be found a little cheaper if you look around or buy from an ebay power seller):

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2223

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2529

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2449

those kickers you can find on ebay or another internet deal for cheap. for example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-KICKER-DCVR12-2-12-SUB-ENCLOSED-BOX_W0QQitemZ9736119329QQcategoryZ32823QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

having subs that you can wire down to 1ohm is pretty useful, you can find good deals on amp that put out a lot of power at 1 ohm.

for around 400 bucks you can make a decent, 1000w rms system backed by reliable brands.

for amps that are affordable yet reliable and good quality. i would recommend profile, directed audio, viper, hifonics, and ive seen great deals on memphis 1000d's.

[Rdizziedog]

Thanks for the information. One last question (could be really stupid, and I should probably search before posting this, but what the hell)... What is the difference between a "mono" amp and a "4-channel" amp?

[chaos GT]

Thanks for the information. One last question (could be really stupid, and I should probably search before posting this, but what the hell)... What is the difference between a "mono" amp and a "4-channel" amp?
a mono amp only accepts and output 1 channel of sound. also, mono amps typically only reproduce subbass frequencies.

a 4 channel amp will accept and output up to 4 channels of sound. pairs of channels can also be combined for more power.

mono amps tend to be more efficient and more powerful whereas the 4 channel amps are more versatile. if you're getting the amp for just subs, the mono is probably the better bet.

[Rdizziedog]

a mono amp only accepts and output 1 channel of sound. also, mono amps typically only reproduce subbass frequencies.

a 4 channel amp will accept and output up to 4 channels of sound. pairs of channels can also be combined for more power.

mono amps tend to be more efficient and more powerful whereas the 4 channel amps are more versatile. if you're getting the amp for just subs, the mono is probably the better bet.

I'm planning on upgrading 6x9's in the near future, maybe in a month or so. (probably these: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-IQf6OmGrHQB/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?I=500SPR69LP)

Would I need to power these with an amp also? If I get the deal with the 4-channel amp, would I be able to power both subs and both 6x9's with the amp? Or should I get the deal with the mono amp and power the subs with that, and get another amp to power the 6x9's? Obviously I don't know much about this stuff... I appreciate all the help from you guys!

[chaos GT]

could you? yes. should you? probably not. running the subs off 2 channels of the 4 channel amp with the other 2 being used the power the 6x9s would really prevent you from reaching the full potential of the subs.

a 4 channel amp is great if you want a nice all around moderate volume kind of system, or as part of a multiamp setup. however, if you want thumping bass, a mono amp for the subs is probably your best bet. in this situation you can always add a 2 or 4 channel amp later on for speakers.

edit: you don't need an amp for the 6x9s, they can be run off the headunit's amp. however, they will get louder and sound better if run by a seperate amp. this is why it's called a system. it's a lot of different components working together to achieve a common goal.

one final thing: if you're gonna buy from crutchfield and plan on using a visa or mc, check out http://www.ultimatecoupons.com/coupons/crutchfield_coupons.htm

i used the 20 off 100 coupon 3 times last month on amps for 2 friends. made crutchfield prices close to ebay prices but you still get all the crutchfield service/support/warranty. and after all, 20 bucks is 20 bucks.

[kizzo]

Thanks for the information. One last question (could be really stupid, and I should probably search before posting this, but what the hell)... What is the difference between a "mono" amp and a "4-channel" amp?

mono = 1 channel
4 ch = 4 channel

basically mono is just straight up bass (i dont think ive ever seen a mono amp that plays in stereo). a 4ch amp can be used for every kind of speaker, components, coax, subs, etc. I would highly recommend you get a mono amp if your looking for an amp to power subs. not only will you most likely gain power, but you all also gain efficiency, reliability, simplicity in wiring, probably cheaper, and IMO they just sound better.

mono blocks tend to come with built in low pass filters, meaning it filters out any sound that isnt a deep low note (bass) so it will ONLY put out bass. 2ch and 4 ch amps come with a variable pass filter, meaning you can set it to filter out everything but one sound. for example only play lows, only play highs, or only play mids. some people actually like buying 2ch or 4ch amp for subs because if you upgrade something, that amp can power something else.

go with mono.

[Rdizziedog]

Ugh... Crutchfield sucks. Why do they have to be located in Virginia? They add a $19 sales tax to my total when ordering. There goes the $20 savings from ordering with a Visa/Mastercard.

Edit: I'm having them ship it to my Dad's work, which is located in Maryland. Yay, no more $19 sales tax!

[Rdizziedog]

Well, I ordered the $379.99 package today. Hopefully 2loud will send me the wiring tomorrow, and I'll have it by Friday to try and install. Woot!

Thanks again for everyone's input. I learned a lot from you guys, and hopefully will learn a lot by installing this stuff.

Edit: They just called my house to tell me that the promo code that you told me to use for $20 would not be able to be used because it excludes Alpine products. That sucks, oh well.