Need electrical help!!!!

[Blackknight04]

I took apart my dash today around the radio and instrument cluster in my 04 hatch and now the radio, keyless entry, interior overhead light, and door marker lights don't work. I checked every single fuse with a volt meter and they have continuity. Does anybody know something that could help me out? Thanks again. And yes, I did plug the connector to the clock back in and the radio too. I just don't get why it doesn't work.

[cclngthr]

The power to the ETACS is cut off. I think it is fused and that might be under the hood.

[Blackknight04]

The fuse for this according to the owners manual is located in the passenger compartment fuse box and I checked the fuse this morning before I left for work and it was still good. Any other ideas?

[JacksonJ]

This was touched upon once before, turned out to be a fuse. Please read the old thread from the Archives

Old thread (http://www.elantraxd.com/yabbse/index.php?board=18;action=display;threadid=7966;st art=msg91973#msg91973)

[southpawboston]

yes, check out the old thread. this same thing has happened to others before. i don't have the schematic right in front of me but i do recall it being a fuse issue (despite people swearing they checked them all). if every fuse in the passenger compartment fuse box is good then check out the fusible links (big fuses) in the engine bay fuse box. IIRC, there is a 50A link that provides power to the interior fuse box.

[cclngthr]

Wayne had suggested if the fuses are good, to check the power going to them. If a block (several in a line) of them is out, either a wire or fuse is blown elsewhere.

My advise: disconnect the damn battery before messing around with anything electrical. The electronics are sensitive enough and by doing it with power on will fry most electronic devises. We get people in the shop occasionally who don't have power and a few have fried their airbag and ecu controllers as a result.

[jameswing]

I have seen a lot of post reciently concerning people having electrical problems after taking the dash apart.

Do you need to leave the battery unooked and drain it like you do for a reset in order to prevent any electrical problems?

[Blackknight04]

I will check the fuses under the hood when I get home today. Also, it is NOT fuse #25 as I just changed it four times with four different fuses on my lunch break and still got nothing. And just like that post from the archive, my hazards do work, and the keyless entry works when the car is running only.

[cclngthr]

I'm wondering if some of the wires were messed with? If the Keyless entry works while the engine is running, and not when the key is out, that leads me thinking that a wire is not connected in the right spot. It should work while the the engine is off, UNLESS, it also gets power from the ignition switch as well; which explains why it works when the engine is running.

[kylemorg]

If other things are working, check the fuse distribution block on the driver's side under the hood, and the wiring harnesses under the dash / behind the instrument cluster. As cclngthr indicated, it could be a loose wire/connection and the most common place would be at a harness plug.

[southpawboston]

the keyless should NOT work when the key is in the ignition switch. when the key is in the ignition it sends a signal to the ETACS. somehow that signal is not going to the ETACS anymore.

[cclngthr]

the keyless should NOT work when the key is in the ignition switch. when the key is in the ignition it sends a signal to the ETACS. somehow that signal is not going to the ETACS anymore.


If it is working with the key in, that would tell me a wire is hooked up wrong or the signal source does not have power (which could act as if it were hooked up wrong).

If the key is in and things should not work, to my knowledge that should be the chime circuit (as the key is inserted, power is sent to the chime, but the closed doors would stop the power from getting to the chime itself, but still could go to the ETACS).

[ButterBean]

maybe you accidentally moved a ground wire or didn't plug something bac in that acts as a ground...what exactly were you messing with in the dash?

[Blackknight04]

Well, I checked every fuse in both fuse boxes and they are all good. I even took everything apart to double check all the connectors and it still doesn't work. I checked all my amp connections with a multimeter and they are good too. I think I fried my ETACS. BTW, all I did was unplug the chime harness and tap a wire into one of the harnesses on the front of the passenger compartment fuse box that provided switched power.

[cclngthr]

You probably did. Did you disconnect the battery an hour before doing the work? SPB's DIY on tapping into the ETACS recommends this to prevent it from being fried. You could have unplugged the wrong end of the chime as well. Plug that back in and recheck it (can happen).

What I might have done is tap into the cig lighter circuit, which is switched to power up what you had installed. However, there is a amp remote lead on most aftermarket hu's that go to the amp to power it up.

[Blackknight04]

The reason that I tapped into that wire was because the fuse blew on the cigarette lighter where I used to have the wire tapped into. I don't like hooking my amps through the headunit. I run them off a seperate switch instead. And no, I didn't disconnect the battery an hour ahead of time because I didn't know that I was tapping into a wire that went to the ETACS. Oh well, looks like a trip to the dealer for me. "I don't know what happened, everything just stopped working." :D

[cclngthr]

Actually, the remote wire is a low amperage lead that trips a relay inside the amp. It pulls less than an amp to trip the relay on and off. The relay inside the amp is the high amperage switch.

What my foster son did on his amp was to run the remote lead from the headunit to a switch then to the amp. He would then be able to manually turn the amp on/off at will. Another way to hook it up is run the remote lead from the battery to the switch on the dash. When I replaced my headunit, I got the adapter and plugged that into the stock wiring harness and to the deck. On that was the remote lead to the amp, which I used. I don't like to **** with the cars electrical system if I can help it. Any more, with all the computerized and electronic stuff in cars, damaging those is very easy.

Anytime you mess with the cars wiring, always disconnect the battery.

[04 elantra cvvt]

I ran it off of the HU as well. This is the way it is intended to be run, so I did it. I have never had any problems with it, and I have done this on upwards of 40 vehicles. Never had a problem unless the remote wire got pinched and grounded out. You might check that out BTW.

[cclngthr]

On my headunit wiring kit, I put an inline fuse at the remote lead behind the deck. This protects the main harness from getting fried. If it did short out, it would blow that fuse.

[southpawboston]

well it does appear that the ETACS is fried. and as CC said, the chime unit is controlled by the ETACS. it looks like you may have applied voltage to the lead on the chime harness that goes to the ETACS. did you try undoing everything you did?

and just FYI, there are a LOT of accesories that are connected in some way to the ETACS. interior AND exterior lighting, hazards, keyless, alarm, power windows, even the wipers. and on the 04's, add the air bag circuitry!

well, as long as there's no evidence that you spliced any wires around the ETACS or chime unit, the dealer will PROBABLY replace it. but if they trace any ETACS harnesses to some other harness that has signs of tampering, they may not replace it... i would suggest removing any custom electricals you've installed if it isn't too much trouble.

in the worst case scenario, pick up a new ETACS from jay at a discount, or give allhyundaiisuzuparts.com a call and see if they've got a used one to sell you cheap.

[Blackknight04]

Well, if I switch my remote wire over to the headunit and put electrical tape back over the wire that I spliced into then I should be okay. Or do you think that I should just completely remove the amp and the box before I take it in? The electrical system on these cars is so damn sensitive. I've never had a problem with anything that I've ever wired into any other car. Oh well, lesson learned. I might take it to a different dealer because the one I bought the car from are total dicks.

[southpawboston]

i would take no chances and remove the amp and box, remote wire and any other power wire you may have run...just to prevent a hassle by the dealer and so the service tech doesn't pass judgment on you and conclude that your setup must have caused it. i know that in theory they have to prove it, but you know how difficult they can make things.

the electrical system on the XD is not really more sensitive than any other car with modern accessories. most cars these days have very similar electronics.

[Blackknight04]

If I put electrical tape back around the wire that I tapped into in the fuse panel and make it look stock again, do you think they will pull the tape off and look?

[southpawboston]

try to hide the splice by wrapping tape nice and really tight around the whole harness, much like snap tie, like you see on a lot of stock harnesses. it may look stock enough for them to not notice. we're just trying to cover all bases here. you never know.

[Blackknight04]

I do have a butt connector on the power wire to the cigarette lighter too from where I cut it and put it back together. You think I can hide that with electrical tape also?

EDIT: Also, I was just looking at your ETACS DIY and I noticed that it controls the wipers and wiper pump, seatbelt lights, and a bunch of other stuff that still works on my car. Is it possible for these to still work even if the ETACS is fried? Also, like an idiot I didn't read that DIY before I did this and I used a "quick splice" and I think it cut a few strands inside the wire. Is this fixable and do you think it might be the problem.

I know you probably hate dealing with this over and over again, but I am just trying to avoid a trip to the dealer if possible. Thanks again for everything!

[southpawboston]

cutting a few strands is no biggie. as for the ETACS, it has multiple independent circuits. you probably fried one or more circuits, but not others that do other things. a guy at EGTclub fried his ETACS dome light "fade-out" circuit but everything else worked fine so he just rewired the dome light to work without the fade-out.

[cclngthr]

The dealer *could* be an *** an ask what did you do? To them, something does not fail for the hell of it and they start looking around. Sometimes electrical devises do fail on thei own, but they require some help to do it.

If I'm not mistaken, Hyundai does go through the part to see why it failed.

[Blackknight04]

i'm thinking I should just buy a new one because I don't think they are going to cover it.

I don't know how i am going to come up with $300 but I will try anyway.

[southpawboston]

don't give up yet! the worst that can happen is that they will declare that it is not covered under warranty and that you will have to pay for the diagnosis, which could run to about an hour of labor. but there's a better chance that it will be covered. it's a gamble.

hyundai dealers are required to hold onto parts replaced under warranty for six months in case a regional warranty rep wants to investigate why the part failed. however they don't always inspect the parts--especially if they are electronic, they do that mostly for mechanical failures where it's easy to spot a defect by eye. no rep is going to rip open the ETACS and look for a problem, they're simply not trained in that area. there would be nothing to see...you can't really see a shorted out circuit unless there was some major heat buildup and somehting burned. i highly doubt they would ever investigate a shorted ETACS.

[cclngthr]

I found the ETACS to be an item found on most new cars these days. We had an Escalade in the shop for several items and one was in the dash. Those are extremely complicated; worse than ours.

If we had a On-Star GPS unit in our cars, the ETACS unit will be hooked to that too.

[Blackknight04]

I just noticed that the ETACS doesn't control the radio. So why doesn't mine work? I know it's on the same fuse but the fuse is good. I am going to try and get it to the dealer tomorrow and we'll see what happens.

[southpawboston]

this changes things. i know you checked fuse 25. check it again. is there 12V going through it?

next, name everything you can think of on your car that is not working now. think of every possible light bulb and accessory. let me know. it still could be related to fuse 25. there is a power connector before fuse 25 that could have blown ahead of the fuse.

[cclngthr]

Or somehow disconnected... We had a mid 80s Volvo with an intermittent electrical cutout that affected the gauges and the starter. Wayne traced it to a unconnected power lead that powered up 1/2 of the fuse block. Took him 15 minutes to find it. Steph, our other mechanic couldn't trace it.

If fuse 25 has no power, you need to trace everything to find power and go by the schematics to see what powers fuse 25. If the power going to fuse 25 is blown, you probably found it. I don't know what powers fuse 25, but it is possible that another fuse or fusable link (check those too) does.

[southpawboston]

strangely on the schematic page it shows what they call a "power connector" just in front of fuse 25. the graphic looks just like a fusible link. why would there be one in front of fuse 25 and not in front of other fuses? it's not even a heavy load circuit. anyway let's hope that whatever that thing is it's just gotten loose. there's even a pic of it on the fuse block:

fuse block (http://www.hmaservice.com/xml/graphics\E2\E2KC301A.gif)

fuse box schematics (http://www.hmaservice.com/webtech/iindex.asp?id=394883762#_394883762%00) go 2/3 down the page.

[cclngthr]

I think the reason why it is there is because fuse 25 powers the interior lamps, audio and the instrument cluster (looking after the fuse). It could be that this *fusable link* protects the block which has fuse 25. It may be backwards number wise but it may be that way on purpose.

I'm now wondering if that power connector has power going to it? Or, is fuse 25 powering that?

[Blackknight04]

I will definitely look into when I get home. Thanks. Also, Souhtpaw, you've got PM.

[southpawboston]

I think the reason why it is there is because fuse 25 powers the interior lamps, audio and the instrument cluster (looking after the fuse). It could be that this *fusable link* protects the block which has fuse 25. It may be backwards number wise but it may be that way on purpose.

I'm now wondering if that power connector has power going to it? Or, is fuse 25 powering that?

looks like the connector powers the fuse. truly bizarro.

[Blackknight04]

I am going to go outside and check fuse 25 again as soon as I get some grub. Also, southpaw, here is a list of everything that does not work:

clock
interior dome light
door marker lights
radio
keyless entry with car off
trip computer resets distance and mpg back to zero every time I turn the car off

That is all. Will be talking to ya later.

[cclngthr]

Blacknight,

Looks to me that what you listed is what fuse 25 covers; at least that is what I see on the schematic diagram.

SP,

Do you know where the connector wires come from? I think we are getting closer, but not there yet.. Wayne was asking me about this.

[southpawboston]

the power connector gets its power from the "hot at all times" circuit, the big white wire that comes from the 50A fusible link in the engine bay relay box and plugs into the front of the passenger compartment fuse block.

power flows into the connector and back out to fuse 25. why the hell it does this is beyond me. and it IS sounding like fuse 25 is not getting power. i'm beginning to think the connector is bad. the symptoms that he describes are EXACTLY the same symptoms you would have with fuse 25 blown. i'm also betting his A/C doesn't work. i'm betting fuse 25 is not getting power, and it's this weird connector that's loose or blown. it also shows the connector as having two or three prongs. it may be two prongs and an orienting prong. i'll bet if he bridges the two prongs with a jumper wire everything will work.

[Blackknight04]

Well, it looks like you hit the nail on the head southpaw. And no, my A/C did work the whole time which I was able to trace from the schematics you provided me with meant the ETACS wasn't fried. It turns out that this power connector can go in two ways. if you look on the fuse box one side is labeled off and one side is labeled on. I had pulled this out because I wasn't sure what it was and had put it back in in the off setting without knowing it. So I switched it around and everything works!!!!. Make sure to put this in the DIY. Very useful info. Don't know if only the 04's have this power connector or not, but everyone who wires there own stuff should know about it. I drew up a little diagram to illustrate.

http://68.209.252.18/images/fusepanel.gif

Make sure that the arrow on the connector points towards on.

[cclngthr]

SP,

I through this at Wayne, who commented that it is possible that the connector is the culprit, but, he suggests testing the connector itself for power to see if it is bad. If it is getting power at one end and not the other, there lies the problem. However, if it is not getting power, then the wiring has to be checked further into the relay box under the hood. It could be that the fusable link or a connector that is loose in the relay box.

I do wish that the connectors only went in 1 way...

[southpawboston]

CC, did you see blacknight's last post? it turns out the connector was put back in backwards.

why in the hell would hyundai even put that power connector there? what's the point? why be able to disconnect power from fuse 25 but not other fuses? it just doesn't make sense. why not just remove fuse 25 if you want to disconnect power to that circuit?

well i'm glad to see it all worked out stephen. you only owe CC and i $60 for the diagnosis. you can send us each a check for $30. ;)

[Blackknight04]

Sure, do you take monopoly money? Haha. Thanks again guys for all your help. Too bad it was just my own stupid fault. But now everybody knows. Since I was the guinea pig then this ones on the house right?

[cclngthr]

CC, did you see blacknight's last post? it turns out the connector was put back in backwards.

why in the hell would hyundai even put that power connector there? what's the point? why be able to disconnect power from fuse 25 but not other fuses? it just doesn't make sense. why not just remove fuse 25 if you want to disconnect power to that circuit?

well i'm glad to see it all worked out stephen. you only owe CC and i $60 for the diagnosis. you can send us each a check for $30. ;)


I saw that after I wrote the post.

I wonder about some carmakers myself.. They do this just to piss us off. I'm used to working on older cars. They have simple wiring. Take the parking light circuit; older cars have both sides on 1 circuit. We have separate circuits for each side. We also have confusing circuits that get connected together somehow.