oil pain, problems tuning 05

[struck1481]

does any one have pics of where they taped there oil return line on there oil pan. also is there anyone with a boosted cvvt? Also what is the max boost you can push on stock internals,intercooled and non return system.

[evan938]

we found out the hard way on seans car, make sure you go to either side of the dipstick on the oil pan...its 10x easier if you remove the oil pan (like 16 bolts) and drop it, clean it out, then tap it, clean it agian. this will also let you clean the sealant between the pan and block, and put a new layer. easiest way to do that (once the pan is clean of oil) is to take a torch, heat up the stuck on sealant, and hit it with a stiff wire brush

[struck1481]

any pic? i guess that no one has there cvvt boosted

[seguin22]

I do I run up to 15PSI I first had it spike to 16psi but no problems except a failing stock clutch

[Keyan]

any pic? i guess that no one has there cvvt boosted


please go to www.jattus.com/performance for a pretty powerful cvvt boosted elantra. his name on these forums is mahonroy, search :D

[yamaha]

http://www.applianceservice-center.com/sean/Sean%20Turbo%20Install/Install%20028.jpg

http://www.applianceservice-center.com/sean/Sean%20Turbo%20Install/Install%20026.jpg

http://www.applianceservice-center.com/sean/Sean%20Turbo%20Install/SInstall%20059.jpg

http://www.applianceservice-center.com/sean/Sean%20Turbo%20Install/SInstall%20064.jpg

[evan938]

wow sean...thats a beautiful clean oil pan and some sexy hands...i wonder who was awesome enough to do all that work
:D:D:D:D

[yamaha]

Those are your fat sausage hands there fat bastard.

Anyways, in the first picture I posted, You will see the dipstick protector, and drill in as high as possible.

[struck1481]

does any one have there oil pan tapped or are they all block taps. sen 22 it that on stock with out the decompression place. I'm also using a garret t3 super 60 for my turbo. oh yeah what are you using for fuel managment and boost controller

[seguin22]

I have the Alpine Stage 1 setup and I have my blocked tapped im tuned for up to 17 psi, I do have the Decomp plate installed.

[struck1481]

ok how much boost were you pushing before the plate was installed.

[seguin22]

None I installed it before I installed the turbo! But with a good tune and a intercooler you can go up to 12-13psi on stock compression, Thats what kewkat is running and hes having no problems!

[KeWLKaT]

^ Yep.

And I have the oil pan tapped to. Just tap it highest possible.

[struck1481]

kewl do you have any pics of the pan tap? and also is everyone running the alpine kit on the cvvt's cause i'm thinking of trying to order the uni chip piggy back cause i'm still having problems under boost and i haven't fully got things under control

[KeWLKaT]

i dont understand...

you ARE running boost

but haven't tapped the pan yet?

and sorry I have no pics right now :(

[struck1481]

i have the pan tapped but i'm having oil leaks. sen22 do you have you bov reserted or vented and do you have any cvvt issues?

[robs02elantra]

just tap it and run ;)

[seguin22]

I have no CVVT issues at all! I currently dont have a BOV its not needed with ALpines turbos becasue they modify the compressor housing for compressor surge! Although I will get one anyway just for the extra insurance, But I have a MAF sensor so I would have to route it in the intake after the MAF.

[05xd]

Ah-ha.You have to route the re-circ after the maf.Nice.Thats the answer I was looking for as well.

[struck1481]

actually the way i have mine is the throttle boby then the maf then the blow off then intercooler then the turbo and so far no reall problems i think

[BColeman]

NO NO NO ! ! ! ! ! !

If the MAF is on the turbo side, then you MUST recirculate the BOV.

Like struck1481's set up, his MAF is a blow through, the BOV comes before the MAF, so he's able to blow off, non-recirculated because the air isn't metered yet.

If you are currently MAF based, DO NOT move the MAF. Leave the MAF in the stock location, so there isn't going to be any issues with the stock ECU idling and off-boost situations. Add the blow off valve, with no problem.

If you move the MAF to be in front of the turbo, several things have to happen:

1) You are going to need a new MAF real quick.
2) You won't have a good idle and off-boost tune because the ECU doesn't know what's going on.

The reason is: MAF is voltage based, so lengthening these wires will cause voltage drop off, so you may incurr some issues. Not really may, you really will have some problems. Everything I've read, regarding any manufacturers car, leave the MAF in the same place, same distance from TB, wires the same length, etc. Otherwise, you'll be looking at a stand alone ECU real quick, and there aren't many options for that.

[KeWLKaT]

DUDE I TOLD YOU!!!

Why don't you understand.

ALL your issues are coming from the MAF being in boost.

DO NOT LET THE MAF SEE BOOST

It is supposed to read FLOW, BOOST isn't an equal-flowing system. When you boost, your pressure doesn't build up in a quasi-static way inside of your piping. This means that in reality, you have more pressure in the begining of your piping, and less on the TB side. This is one reason why you shouldn't run your MAF like that, since depending on the location, it will read differently in your charge piping. This is simple thermodynamics.

Also, MAF's are designed to read the FLOW inside of a vacuum system, so you are just making it useless in this case.

I AM 900000000% sure that all your problems are coming from this. Think about it, there are a LOT of MAF-based turbo cars out there that do recirc, because it is the way it's supposed to work.

I had told you this before, BColeman, I thought you were going to give it a try. Just take a look at ALL the other guys doing this.

If the only reason you are doing this is to not recirculate your BOV, just get a PARTIAL bypass valve, that does both. You will get the cool sound, with the added benefit of partial recirculation.

Function over cool sound....

As for lengthening the wires, just lengthen them all EVENLY, because the MAF reads the voltage DIFFERENCE to determine flow. i.e.

IN THE SAME SITUATION (ficitonal situation)

Before lengthening:

Voltage in: 3.4V
Voltage out: 2.8V
Difference: 0.6V

After lengthening:

Voltage in: 3.35V
Voltage out: 2.75V
Difference: 0.6V

Take it from the guys who made it work: Mahonroy, toymachine, seguin

Their setups ALL work.

Yours DONT.

They have MAFs on the intake side.

You DONT.

Let me see where the problem is....





BTW man I'm just trying to help, don't get pissed.

FROM WIKIPEDIA, ABOUT MAF SENSORS:

installation requires a laminar flow across the hot-wire

You do NOT have laminar flow under boost conditions. What is a laminar flow : when a fluid flows in parallel layers, with no disruption between the layers (this does not happen because of the non-static evolution of the pressurized system, as I described earlier in my post)

[05xd]

You have to put the MAF on the intake side of the turbo.The turbo will kill the maf if you leave it in the stock location

[KeWLKaT]

^ pretty much sums up all the technical shizznit I wrote ;)

[05xd]

but i love simplicity :)

[dmdicks]

My 2 cents. You can have the MAF in a blow through configuration but the ECU HAS to be tuned to handle. Otherwise you get all the problems described above plus when you close the throttle the pressurized air will bounce back through the MAF flooding your engine with fuel.

[BColeman]

^ dmdicks has just said exactly what I've been looking for.

Kewlkat, I am in no way pissed. You are absolutely right. But I didn't want him to go through all this "testing" to see if it works. What you said about the air flow makes sense, because boosted, compressed air will cause faulty readings in the MAF which is not tuned to "see" this quality of air. It really has nothing to do with the BOV making any sound. He doesn't care about that ( well too much anyway ).

What dmdicks said describes perfectly the problem Hayden has been experiencing when the throttle plate closes.

He had to order a new turbo (I think this is going to be the 3rd turbo). When we put in that turbo, or I should say, when I put in the turbo for him, I will relocate the MAF and recirculate the BOV. We'll let you all know how it turns out.

[KeWLKaT]

3rd turbo, wtf!

[05xd]

Sounds quite expensive.dizzam

[Mahonroy]

For this kind of setup, deffinetly put the MAF in the turbo intake, not the charge pipe.

For the new setup I am working on I was actually going to try a blow through setup and put the MAF sensor in the charge pipe for a couple reasons. 1. I don't want to mess with a recirculating BOV. 2. The MAF sensor should read intake temperatures more accuratly. Lots of people get blow through MAF setups to work, you just need to retune your fuel maps because the signal will be off. More boost means more CFM's, which the MAF sensor will still be able to read, even if there is pressure.

[05xd]

Ok,so what kind of MAF are you goin to use for this set-up? I love the sound of a nasty BOV but I also want to be able to idle

[KeWLKaT]

Are you going to use a diff maf? you going standalone?

[BColeman]

Hayden has a Greddy eManage. We've tuned it for blow through on the MAF. As far as voltage on the MAF, we have raised the duty cycle enough to even get close to maxing it out. Maybe Hyundai's MAF is crap for blow-through style boost.

Kewlkat: As far as the turbo, here's the details:

1) Hayden was in a rush to get everything in, tightened down the oil return too much on the $400 turbo, used heater hose for the return line, and blew the main seal on the turbo.
2) Same turbo, after $400 in rebuilt stuff by a shop, never put an intake pipe on the intake side of the turbo, probably sucked in some rocks and stuff, and has broken fins on the shaft.
3) Remeber, that was a Garrett T-3 Super 60. Today, November 10, he will be receiving a T3/T4 TD04E replacement turbo, cost $200.

We'll be putting that in and relocating the MAF and all that stuff this weekend. Next week, he'll have a new boost controller and boost guage. He's trading the Greddy Profec e-01 for a new down pipe, wastegate dump pipe welded in before 1st O2 sensor, and new charge piping from the IC to the TB.