Turbo Information

[BaltimoreGLS]

Hey i was just wondering who on here has turboed their elantra. and whoever has if they could give me some advice on prepping. And turbos. Got the 2003 Elantra GLS 5 speed. I'm getting ready to have a custom 3 inch exhaust made with a skunk 2 muffler, no cat. and probbably going to be buying the Evofusion 4-2-1 header. I'm not really worried about money as much as i am keeping the car lidget and doing everthing right.

Another question, 3 inch exhause to much? maybe 2 3/4? I dont know if you can really go too big on the exhaust. What would be a good size pipe.

[05xd]

Why are you goin to buy a header if you are goin to turbo your car.It will be a waste of money because you wont be able to use it after you buy the turbo.Also a 3 inch exhaust will be overkill,unless you are goin for massive whp.Get 2 1/2 inch at the most

[hyunelan2]

^^^If you're worried about money, why buy headers to remove them when you put on a Turbo? 3" exhaust is a little much for the Elantra, you might lose a little bit doing that, you need some backpressure.

If by keeping the car "legit" you mean legal, forget the Headers, not street-legal anywhere. Oh, and neither is removing the cats.

[BaltimoreGLS]

you know what...your right. i tottaly forgot about the header thing. brain fart. I am going for massave whp but it will take a while, ill probbably just get a 2 1/2 for now and then upgrade if i need it later. What about prepping, can that stock head and stock tranny handle say 18 psi (just throwin a number out there) if i can even get a turbo for an elantra to put out 18 psi. And are there any more prefered turbos other than the shark racing series? If so im looking at the stage 3. Can it really bump whp to 280 if done right?

by the way dont mean leagal, i mean i dont want to blow or crack anything in car by not prepping the motor right. and yeah i know that was a pretty retarded word to use. haha.

[05xd]

Alpine developments.Thats what I have on my Tibby.Please dont try to buy that SR kit.It's poorly designed.The turbo I have on mine is a TD04 13t and it is capable of 15 psi.Stock everything.2400 bucks
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/05xd/turbo3.jpg

[BaltimoreGLS]

That rad man. I'm going to look that up.

[05xd]

It's on sale right now!!!!!
www.alpine-developments.us

[BaltimoreGLS]

Thats cool. Say i bought this kit, and later on down the road wanted to change the turbine. Is that possible or would i matter what kind of turbine i guess.

[05xd]

Yes,it is fully upgradable.You could upgrade to the TD05 15t which is on their stage 1 intercooled kit.That I am sure of.Im not sure whatelse will work.You might want to pm dmdicks about that.Anything is possible with their kits

[BaltimoreGLS]

Awesome! Hey you live in cambridge? where did you take your car to get it tuned after you got the turbo?

[05xd]

Nowhere.The unichip that comes with the kit is pre-programmed to run right out of the box

[BaltimoreGLS]

Oooh. Well thats nice isnt it. haha. Doesnt come with blow off valves? or Fuel injectors? or maybe im just not looking hard enough.

[05xd]

No bov.Its not needed til you hit like 12-13 psi.Also you dont need injectors until you get up in boost.The 5th injector that they supply is a 62 lb per hr injector which is like 650 cc or something I do believe,I could be wrong though.This kit is enough to get you boosted quickly without all the downtime.You will still need to get gauges for safety but thats no biggie.

[BaltimoreGLS]

So its a direct bolt on kit right? did you install yours yourself?

[05xd]

Yea,its a bolt on kit and I installed it myself.I have access to the right tools and lifts so it took me about 5 hrs or so to install it

[turboron_98]

BACKPRESSURE???????????????????????
Turbos don't like any back pressure at all. I have had multiple turboed hyundai's and I am a technician at a dealership. If you have backpressure you loose exhaust flow. If the flow slows down then the turbine on the exhaust side will slow down. In return the compressor wheel will slow down equalling LESS BOOST. I had a '98 turboed tiburon with a beta 1 and it was running almost 300hp and 300 ft lbs off of about 15lbs of boost. I have time slips for 12.7 sec quarter. I was running stainless steel mandrel bent 3 INCH Exhaust with no cat and and HKS Muffler. I could easily turn my boost up on the controller to almost 20lbs if I wanted to at any time. NO BACKPRESSURE=MORE BOOST/LESS WEAR AND TEAR ON THE TURBO. Oh and jsut so you know most headers know days are 50 state Legal. We won't even void a warranty with aftermarket headers now. The only thing it voids is the factory header and the gasket, nothing else.

[NY2002ElantraGT]

Yea,its a bolt on kit and I installed it myself.I have access to the right tools and lifts so it took me about 5 hrs or so to install it


5 hours? what level alpine is that? is it intercooled? 5 hours? i cant get over that. most stories i hear about turbo installs go on for like at least 12 hours.

[hyunelan2]

BACKPRESSURE???????????????????????
Turbos don't like any back pressure at all. I have had multiple turboed hyundai's and I am a technician at a dealership. If you have backpressure you loose exhaust flow. If the flow slows down then the turbine on the exhaust side will slow down. In return the compressor wheel will slow down equalling LESS BOOST. I had a '98 turboed tiburon with a beta 1 and it was running almost 300hp and 300 ft lbs off of about 15lbs of boost. I have time slips for 12.7 sec quarter. I was running stainless steel mandrel bent 3 INCH Exhaust with no cat and and HKS Muffler. I could easily turn my boost up on the controller to almost 20lbs if I wanted to at any time. NO BACKPRESSURE=MORE BOOST/LESS WEAR AND TEAR ON THE TURBO. Oh and jsut so you know most headers know days are 50 state Legal. We won't even void a warranty with aftermarket headers now. The only thing it voids is the factory header and the gasket, nothing else.

Yes, but if he's starting out N/A with headers, he shouldn't go free-flowing exhaust.

Headers are not legal in any state on the Elantra because you have to remove a CAT to install them. That is why they are illegal, you cannot legally remove any emissions control devices.

[05xd]

5 hours? what level alpine is that? is it intercooled? 5 hours? i cant get over that. most stories i hear about turbo installs go on for like at least 12 hours.
Yup,5 hrs.Non intercooled.I have lift access at work and all the tools i needed at my disposal

[turboron_98]

If he is changing the exhuast anyway than cat further down the exhaust would make the header legal. Where I live they don't do emissions at all so I can get away with anything if I want to. He should choose turbo or N/A because being stuck in the middle just hurts you in the end.

[hyunelan2]

^^^Agreed about the picking a direction part. It'll save from buying parts you don't use in the end.

The problem with the Elantra is with the 2 cats, there's not a lot of room to put 2 cats into the exhaust + a header. Also, depending on how verbatim the law wants to be, when replacing the cat it needs to be replaced with an emissions control device of equal ability. So even if another cat was added down the line, technically it's not legal since the header that replaced the cat does not perform emissions control.

"getting away with it" and "legal" are 2 different things. Usually most of us just go for good enough to "get away with it," but if someone truly wants to be legal - the header won't cut it.

[NY2002ElantraGT]

I have a header with no cats... completely illegal! but header with stock exhaust is still illegal in NY.

as far as the alpine non intercooled turbo, how much did you spend on the kit? how much hp do you have at what PSI?

[05xd]

I spent 2550 for the kit with the oilpan.No clue what hp numbers I have and I hate guessing

[KeWLKaT]

5 hours? what level alpine is that? is it intercooled? 5 hours? i cant get over that. most stories i hear about turbo installs go on for like at least 12 hours.

It took us like 15 hours because of the oil pan. he had an already tapped oil pan. We needed to look for the ****ing tap for about 6 hours before we found it at a specialty store. Then there was the actual CAREFUL tapping and **** too, I say that it was like 75% of the job...

Turbo manifold DP and wiring is ****ing easy to slap on, everything is bolt-on.

[NY2002ElantraGT]

how much extra is it for a new oil pan? probably makes like alot easier huh?

05xd, y no dyno? thats one of the first things i would have done.

[05xd]

200 bucks for the oilpan but when you send the old one back,you get like 75 or so bucks back......which reminds me that I still have mine in the hatch all boxed up lol
No dyno because no monies for that.I need gauges and whatnot first

[turboron_98]

I have some gauges if you are intersted. I have two carbon fiber autometer gauges. One is a Boost gauge and the other is an Air Fuel Ratio Gauge. They are both new in the boxes never used.

[NY2002ElantraGT]

Cool 05xd, looking forward to seeing some numbers, nice set up, good luck.

[05xd]

Thanks man.I'll probably dyno it after christmasand hit the track in the spring.So much more work that needs to be done :(
So far im looking to buy and install gauges,intercooler,methanol injection
Other plans...1.8 rods and balance rotating assy in one of my spare blocks for low comp high boost applications

[KeWLKaT]

i would recommend the oil pan 100%, GET IT! :)

[BaltimoreGLS]

im not really worried about being leagal.

[dmdicks]

With the Entry Level Kit at 8psi you will see about 190 HP to the wheels. That's a 75 HP improvement! With the current sale price and the pretapped pan the total is 2500 USD. There is no easier, reliable, and proven method to boosting your car.
Oh and FYI, the flange on the turbo manifold is a standard Garrett T28 Flange so you can upgrade to most of the Garrett line.

[KeWLKaT]

Oh yeah?

The td04 and t28use the same flange?

[seguin22]

yea I had the T28 and now I have the 13g same flange!

[moonlite5hadow]

Holy Thread Revival, Batman!!!

i just have one question, though it really has nothing to do with this particular thread. i've basically decided to turbo my XD when the budget allows for it, and since i can use the shop at school and the guys in my class to help with the install :)

through reading several threads i concluded that Alpine makes the only reliable entry-level bolt-on turbo kit for the betaI motor. However, the first thread i really read through when coming to this forum was Kewlkat's turbo trouble with an Alpine turbo.

all that said and done, is alpine still considered the best company to get a turbo from (i eventually plan to run it intercooled) or would i be better off, from a reliabilty standpoint, to pay the extra $$ and time to have a custom turbo made? or is there any other more reputable/reliable companies working on a turbo kit specifically for the XD, or that will fit the XD with little mods or fabrication to the kit parts?

i searched and read a few threads on this but i only really gathered a few vague answers to my questions, nothing direct. im hoping to get some specifics :D

[jalmir]

have it custom made ... talk to KeWLKaT by PM to know the extended details about why he would go custom instead of buying from Alpine again.

[05xd]

Alpine is good for bolt-on ability.Custom is the way to go.I want to get a bigger turbo but that would make the rest of the kit useless.A new downpipe would have to be made,better flowing manifold would be needed,better fuel supply,fuel management would need to be upgraded and so forth.If you want something to bolt on,go Alpine.If you ever want to upgrade don't buy Alpine.

[moonlite5hadow]

Alpine is good for bolt-on ability.Custom is the way to go.I want to get a bigger turbo but that would make the rest of the kit useless.A new downpipe would have to be made,better flowing manifold would be needed,better fuel supply,fuel management would need to be upgraded and so forth.If you want something to bolt on,go Alpine.If you ever want to upgrade don't buy Alpine.

haha, thanks guys. after reading Kewlkats thread on his alpine turbo is when i kinda started to lean away from it. this should be my last question about the turbos:

my old Youth Pastor has an '06 Tib GT that he's going to have a turbo custom made for (why? i dont know. i know they have kits for the Tibs). he said that the place he went to quoted him about $5,500, built and installed. im assuming that since i have a 4-banger vs. his V6 that the price would be a little lower, i was estimating $4,800-$5k for mine. does that seem right, or too low/high?

[05xd]

Too high.Parts will probably run around 2k.........maybe at the highest.Are you gonna install it or have someone else do it?

[moonlite5hadow]

Too high.Parts will probably run around 2k.........maybe at the highest.Are you gonna install it or have someone else do it?

if its custom i'll probably have someone else do it. things tend to be cost a bit mroe (parts and lobor) in cali than in other states i've been through, so i expect to pay a little more than some people have probably paid.

[BColeman]

It's real cheap to get your stuff:

1) Manifold: eBay one for under $200, or $600 for a real KDM one
2) Turbo: dime a dozen really, look everywhere, you can get one for a good price.

3) The really expensive part is the tuning stuff you need: i.e. Wideband, Fuel Tuner, Injectors, Fuel Pump, etc.

But like it was mentioned above, you can have it all for under two grand. If you aren't mechanically inclined to do it yourself, then expect to pay a minimum of $500 for install.

[moonlite5hadow]

It's real cheap to get your stuff:

1) Manifold: eBay one for under $200, or $600 for a real KDM one
2) Turbo: dime a dozen really, look everywhere, you can get one for a good price.

3) The really expensive part is the tuning stuff you need: i.e. Wideband, Fuel Tuner, Injectors, Fuel Pump, etc.

But like it was mentioned above, you can have it all for under two grand. If you aren't mechanically inclined to do it yourself, then expect to pay a minimum of $500 for install.

awesome! thanks for that. its still going to be at least 6 months before i start seriously sourcing up the parts. i just finished paying for shool, and books this semester really killed my bank account. i do have a good friend that still lives near me who has already turbo'd his mitsu (forgot what model) so maybe i'll talk to him about helping me out. looks like i spent $30 on a CAI for nothing! :tongue:

--do you have any recommendadtions for ebay manifolds, or should i just leave it up to my own discretion?

[BColeman]

Nope, they only have 1 kind, OBX, so you're safe there.

And no, you didn't waste the money on the CAI. You can use that piping for your charge piping, you'll just need to get more to route it around the radiator to the IC and stuff. You can leave the CAI in the same place, just attached the Charge pipe from the IC to it.

[moonlite5hadow]

Nope, they only have 1 kind, OBX, so you're safe there.

And no, you didn't waste the money on the CAI. You can use that piping for your charge piping, you'll just need to get more to route it around the radiator to the IC and stuff. You can leave the CAI in the same place, just attached the Charge pipe from the IC to it.

ah, this is true. thanks for that tip. i think thats all i need to know for now. like i said, i wont be able to start sourcing the parts for a few months, but this thread is getting bookmarked! thanks for the help!

[KeWLKaT]

Dont be cheap.

My local Hyundai performance shop charges 5000$+ for a custom turbo kit, key in hand, parts included.

I don't care what anyone says, after all I went through, you buy the best you can afford, because in the end, reliability is key.

[BColeman]

And I completely agree with Felix's statement as well.

[moonlite5hadow]

And I completely agree with Felix's statement as well.

as do i. i was expecting to pay in the $4k-5k range. but, i may not have to pay for install, because i got to see the shop at my auto tech building at school and there is more than enough equipment and tools to install a turbo, and we get 1 or 2 open lab days in the shops. also, there 1 in-ground and 2 above ground dynos there. i may get to jsut use all this stuff for free. :D

[BColeman]

It's really about what you spend your money on. The manifold really isn't as important as the Turbo itself.

You can spend $150 on the turbo from eBay, and it may work well for a long time, or it may not. You can spend $600 on a nice T25 turbo from Garrett, or whomever, and the same thing applies, it can last forever, or it may not. The turbo is really a judgement call. But it's THE most important part of the system.

Next, you want good quality oil lines, without them, you may starve the turbo, ruin the turbo, and run into a chance of ruining your motor.

Then it comes down to fuel tuning. You can't skimp here either, because our cars do require additional fuel to make any kind of power with a turbo. You can be safe at 5 psi with the stock system, but why? Hell, I want 30 psi (it's great to want isn't it?).

I apologize if my statement about being mechanically inclined may have come off the wrong way. A lot of people on the web are not so inclined, so I like to justify statements.

Having the ability to use a shop class, or your work place, to do the install is great. The problem arises in the fact that it may take longer doing it that way then at your house. So be prepared for downtime when you start the project.

You can save time by installing the fuel system, fuel tuner, and wideband on one weekend at home. The next weekend take off the bumper and bolt up the intercooler, and remove the exhaust manifold heat shield. Then you'll be ready to just swap the manifolds, bolt up the turbo, bolt on the charge pipes, run the oil lines, tune on the in-house dynos, and be ready to go. I've probably forgotten a few steps here, but you get my drift.

Good luck with your future project though, but by the time you are boosted, guys like Kewlkat, Yamaha, 05xd, etc. will be making 400whp.:D

[moonlite5hadow]

and while they're all making 400whp, i'll be looking to them for advice to catch up!

I thought the shops at school would really only benefit the knowledge end of things, but after touring the bays and the machine shop (where i may even be able to make my own turbo :rolleyes: )today, i realized that the school alone has more tools and equipment than any so called "tuner shop" or auto shop i've ever been to, and the instructors are all more than willing to help with personal projects and no charge, illegal or not. (i say illegal because in cailifornia at least it is illegal to have a turbo or a supercharger on a car UNLESS it came like that from the factory, or so i've read.) I hate cali laws :mad:

[slow 2K2GT]

I may upgrade to this...talk about some lag.

http://newtiburon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2183505#post2183505

http://newtiburon.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29752&stc=1&d=1188003366

http://newtiburon.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29753&stc=1&d=1188003375

http://newtiburon.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29754&stc=1&d=1188003383

[05xd]

Thats a nice looking turbo.Just a shot of nitrous to get her off the line and everything will be good

[slow 2K2GT]

im looking at the turbine side and it almost looks like the downpipe I have now would bolt right up to it. That thing would spool and a giant thrust would follow!

[05xd]

Just get a t3 flange welded on your manifold or get a new manifold and you'd be set if the DP would still fit

[slipkknotfan]

in regards to the starter kit. can you use 1.8 pistons instead of the decompression plate?

[slow 2K2GT]

yes you can use the pistons but you need the 1.8 rods as well.

[smileymattj]

In SC there is no emission tests / inspections so you can run anything you want as long as it mets the noise law. (which is not enforced well)