I want a turbo but

[algoesfast]

I know it wont pass emissions. So I live in MD and my great state makes us test every 2 years. I know others with turbos must test also. So do you return it to stock each time or what? I would be willing to do that if the computer doesn't tell on me with stored readings. So whats the deal, whats the trick? Thanks

[NY2002ElantraGT]

Time to become close friends with a mechanic! haha

[WytchDctr]

I'm almost 99% sure that a turbo will destroy you on emissions testing, why? You have to remove the main cat to install the turbo. Why does that matter that much? Cold start emissions. I know in TX thats technically illegal to remove ANY emission system, so that would make installing a turbo illegal, unless you bolted it to the cat.. erhm, not a good idea. We dont have emissions test, so its not a problem here. Look up your local laws and see what they say. They might not be that stringent. Maybe if it passes the tail pipe analysis you could be ok... Good luck.

[Mahonroy]

I would look up your laws more closely. A turbo system as long as you still have the exhaust going through at least 1 cat will generally still be in the acceptable emissions range.

[Codenomics]

im still trying to figure out how so many people here in cali get away with it, we have the strictest emmision laws in the country. THANX ALOT BERKLEY, SAN FRAN, DAVIS, AND ALL YOU TREE HUGGING ANTI HUMMER MEANY HEADS!

[WytchDctr]

I would look up your laws more closely. A turbo system as long as you still have the exhaust going through at least 1 cat will generally still be in the acceptable emissions range.

For people in TX searching for this info


20.14 Exhaust Emission System. The owner or operator of any new motor vehicle or new motor vehicle engine beginning with the model year 1968 equipped with an exhaust emission system shall maintain the exhaust emission system in good operable condition and shall use it at all times that the motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine is operated. The owner or operator of the motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine shall not remove or intentionally make inoperable within the state of Texas the exhaust emission system or any part thereof, except where the purpose of removal of the exhaust emission system or part thereof is to install another exhaust emission system or part thereof, which is intended to be equally effective in reducing atmospheric emissions from the vehicle or engine.

The exhaust emission system was installed by manufacturers of motor vehicles beginning with model year 1968. The inspection of the exhaust emission system will apply only to those vehicles that are equipped with such a system. The following exhaust emission systems will be inspected if installed as original equipment by the manufacturer: thermostatic air cleaner, exhaust gas recirculation system, positive crankcase ventilation system, air injection system, evaporative emission system, and/or catalytic converter.

If installed as original equipment by the manufacturer, the catalytic converter will be considered a part of the exhaust emission system on all 1984 and later model vehicles. It will be inspected as a part of the exhaust system on prior to 1984 model vehicles.

NOTE: The inspection of the exhaust emission system shall not apply to motor vehicles altered and modified to use only a fuel other than gasoline.

NOTE: Vehicles using liquefied petroleum gas as fuel or a combination of liquefied petroleum gas and any other fuel must bear a liquefied gas tax decal on the windshield lower right-hand corner showing this vehicle uses liquefied petroleum gas, before a safety inspection certificate can be issued.

NOTE: A motor vehicle that uses liquefied petroleum gas that is operated by a public school district or county in this state is not required to have a liquefied gas tax decal or special use liquefied gas tax decal.

1. Inspection Procedure. Examine visually.

2. Inspect for and reject if:

a. The exhaust emission system has been removed.

b. The exhaust emission system has been disconnected.

c. The plumbing or hoses are loose, broken, leaking, or improperly routed.

d. Air pump (air injection-type) belt is loose, removed, excessively cracked, frayed or has pieces missing.

e. The exhaust emission system has been altered in any manner to make it ineffective.

f. The catalytic converter has been removed, leaking, or disconnected on a 1984 or later model vehicle.


A turbo does not help emissions so by the law its Illegal in TX if you remove the Cat on the manifold.

[CornbreadXD]

yeah i was thinking about the turbo and emmisions also cuz we have e-checks every 2 years also its sooo stupid. In ohio you can get a wavier though if you spend $200 on repairs and it still fails so i guess you just have to pay a mechanic to write out a recipt for some type of emission work. (installing new turbo manifold, installing 3" pipe, etc.)

[WytchDctr]

more info

For MD here is what I found


On-Board Diagnostics (OBD) Test

* For vehicles of model year 1996 and up and weighing under 8,500 pounds.

* What it does: Skips the tailpipe and exhaust completely and instead links into the vehicle's computer system (if it has one), searching for any sort of inconsistencies relating to the engine. If the Check Engine light blinks on at this point, things may not look so good for passing the test.

IM240 Dynamometer (a.k.a. the Treadmill) Test

* For vehicles of model years 1984 to 1995 and weighing under 8,500 pounds.

* What it does: Vehicle is set on rollers to simulate real driving while accumulating and sampling the exhaust in various situations.

Idle Test

* For vehicles of model years 1977 to 1983 and large trucks weighing up to 26,000 pounds.

* What it does: Emissions are pondered via computer while the vehicle sits idling.

Gas Cap Pressure and Leak Check

* For all vehicles.

* What it does: Makes sure that the cap is functioning properly and seals like it should.




so if you find someone that wont pop the hood and just does a scan.. if you can keep it from throwing a CEL you might be ok, but.. here is some federal info






UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20460

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT USING, INSTALLING, OR BUYING AFTERMARKET EQUIPTMENT CONTAINING CATALYTIC CONVERTERS.

Manufactures and retailers may not fully understand the intricacies of federal laws surrounding to replacement of catalytic converts and emissions equipment.
We have compiled answers to a few common questions in an effort to clarify the laws, which pertain to our consumers and the vehicles, which they drive.

* When can I install an aftermarket converter?
Generally, there are only 3 situations when you can install an aftermarket converter. They are:
1. If the converter is missing from the vehicle when brought in for exhaust system repair; or
2. If a State or local inspection program has determined the existing converter has been lead poisoned, damaged, or otherwise needs replacement; or
3. If the vehicle is more than 5 years old or has more than 50,000 miles* ( 8 years/80,000 miles for 1995 and newer vehicles ) and a legitimate need for replacement has been established and appropriately documented (e.g., a plugged converter or unrepairable exhaust leaks).
* What should customers know about buying converters for their cars?
First and most importantly, the original converter on a car or truck was designed to last the life of the vehicle if it is properly used and maintained, and is fully warranted by the vehicle manufacturer to last for at least 5 years or 50,000 miles ( 8 years or 80,000 miles on 1995 and newer cars and trucks,) whichever comes first. See the vehicle warranty booklet for more information.
* It is illegal to remove a functional catalytic converter even to replace it with a new one?
It is illegal to tamper with emission control devices. The Antitampering Law applies to individuals as well as to businesses. Individuals may be fined as much as $2,500 for each vehicle tampered with, and businesses are subject to fines of up to $25,000.
* How can I tell if an aftermarket converter meets EPA requirements?
Any converter, which meets EPA requirements and is an acceptable, legal, substitute must be properly labeled and warranted to meet Federal durability and performance standards.

Manufacturers of new aftermarket converters are required to have a 5 year/50,000 mile warranty on the converter shell and end pipes. They are also required to be warranted to meet EPA's emission performance standards for 25,000 miles when the vehicle is properly used and maintained. All manufacturers who meet the requirements also must state that fact in writing and obtain an individual manufacturers EPA code. Usually this is stated in the warranty information or application catalog.
* What are the requirements for businesses installing an aftermarket converter?
Besides installing aftermarket converters only in the 3 situations outlined prior, other requirements and restrictions also apply. These include completely documenting the need for converter replacement, properly installing the correct one on the vehicle, and informing the customer of his rights and certain restrictions. Specifically, these requirements are as follows:

1. If the replacement is not required by a State or local program, both customer and installer must sign a statement concerning why the converter was replaced. (Manufacturers either provide such a statement with the converter or have an example in their catalogs.)
2. If the replacement is required by a State or local program, the installer must keep a copy of the statement or order by the program representative.
3. The invoice for replacement must include the customer's name and complete address, and the vehicle's make, model year, and mileage, as well as the reason for replacement.
4. Retain copies of the above invoices and statements for 6 months and the replaced converters for 15 days (converters must be identified or marked as to which customer's car they came from).
5. Install the converter in the same location as the original.
6. Install the same type of converter as the original (oxidation, 3-way, or 3-way-plusoxidation (dual-bed)). This information is sometimes available on the emission tuneup label or from the manufacturer's application catalog.
7. Install the proper converter for the vehicle as determined and specified by the converter manufacturer. There are engine size and vehicle weight limitations which make it inappropriate to install certain converters on certain vehicles. Newer vehicles with On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) systems may not always operate properly with certain aftermarket products. Therefore, the catalog should always be consulted for the correct application.
8. The converter must always be properly connected to any existing air injection components.
9. Install all the other required converters the vehicle would have originally come with unless the converter manufacturer has stated in writing that the aftermarket converter is designed to replace more than one converter.
10. For new aftermarket converters, the installer must fill out the warranty information card supplied by the manufacturer and give it to the vehicle owner or operator.
* What may happen if I don't use the correct converter?
It is a violation of Federal law because it is likely to increase the amount of pollution coming out of the vehicle.
Penalties for violations by individuals, service or repair shops or fleet operators are up to $2,500 per violation. (Each improper installation is considered a violation.) New car dealers can be penalized up to $25,000 per violation. Any person who causes a violation could be subject to the same penalty as the installer. Vehicle performance can also be affected by the use of the wrong converter and, in some severe cases, converter or engine overheating could occur, resulting in unsafe operation and possibly engine damage.
The conditions or even simply the use of the wrong part on a vehicle may allow the converter manufacturer to not honor the 25,000 mile of the 5 year/50,000 mile warranty, and it is illegal to tamper with emission control devices. The Antitampering Law applies to individuals as well as to businesses. Individuals may be fined as much as $2,500 for each vehicle tampered with, and businesses are subject to fines of up to $25,000.


This says even an aftermarket cat is wrong, so removing it is THA DEVIL, lol.
So I guess by the Feds standard ANY XD with a turbo is wrong. hmm :mad: Unless you run it remote. Best thing to do is go ask an emissions testing garage or whatever near your home and see what they will allow.

[thewilson]

Wow dude you totally owned that post WytchDctr thanks for such indepth info got a link to where this stuff is ? im only curious about tx but just in general it is interesting

[WytchDctr]

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ TX info here, for other states just type, *your states name* emissions law, into google.

[05xd]

Ha,im in MD and we dont have emissions in the county where im at :p
Good ole farmlands,gotta love them

[KeWLKaT]

quebec pwns

but i heard rumors that they may be putting that into action in here aswell in the upcoming years.

though with harper who said f u to the kyoto project i dont think emissions will come here anytime soon :)

[Slapshotman7]

Global Warming is a govt scam. haha.

[thewilson]

In texas its not all counties doing emmissions. Hell I didnt think texas did emmissions tell i got up this way towards austin back in my small home town you can run w/e you want I had an 84 suburban with full headers and absolutely no emmisions equipment on it and I got passed no problems but when I got to the bigger city they opened my hood and were like no way dude so in the end if you can get your car inspected in a small town out away from the city

Thats my 2 cents

[SilverRide]

Global Warming is a govt scam. haha.

Yeah its a scam alright, that's why I haven't been able to hit the slopes other than on made snow. And December might as well be shot.

Scam scam scam.

[Cypher]

I know it wont pass emissions. So I live in MD and my great state makes us test every 2 years. I know others with turbos must test also. So do you return it to stock each time or what? I would be willing to do that if the computer doesn't tell on me with stored readings. So whats the deal, whats the trick? Thanks

trust me when i say you will pass emissions fine. :abovelol: i live in md as well. for emissions all they do is read you for codes and pressurize your gas tank to make sure its not leaking and thats about it. they don't do a sniffer test anymore so if you have no codes and your evap is in order you're good to good.

[slow 2K2GT]

I had one cat on my car when I got it e-tested, it failed the curb idle test, everything else it passed but for the cold start portion it was miserable. Personally I would just go with the Alpine S/C if you are worried about emissions, it hides nicely under the OEM engine cover and doesnt remove any emissions equipment. It doesnt give huge gains but 180whp in an XD would be super fun, spend some cash on an flywheel and better clutch also and the car will be 100% different.

[thewilson]

Supercharging the elantra that sounds like fun. Heck if it will hide under the oem engine cover seems like something I'll be dreaming about!!

I'd say try it algoesfast! Then let everyone know how much fun a s/c elantra is.

[Cypher]

i think 200whp would be possible with the s/c setup if done right. i made 141 whp with boltons i think the s/c could make up for 60

[slow 2K2GT]

i think 200whp would be possible with the s/c setup if done right. i made 141 whp with boltons i think the s/c could make up for 60
yes it would, Alpine says there is at least a 50% whp increase over stock. The S/C is what 3100 so jam about another $1000 into bolt ons and you are good to go, heres what I would get.

Fidanza 7.5lb flywheel (had 2 now and swear by them, lots of fun) $400
Good reliable clutch (ACT, CM, Spec) $400
CAI $30 ebay
Fidanza adjustable cam sprocket $115 ebay

Some people would not go with the flywheel but since you have the engine open then why not do it all at once, I found a great difference when I installed mine. Clutch to hold on to new purchased power, adjustable sprocket because there is power to be gained from a few degrees of cam adjustment, last but not least...CAI, well this is obvious!

You dont want a turbo due to emissions, so I left out exhaust, but you could perhaps get an OBX header just for some bling in the engine bay, but its proven that you dont get any more power from adding it to your system.

Thats just my input on the whole thing....Did Fords S/C ever stay here among the XD community???

[Cypher]

i'm sure the obx header DOES make a difference. allbeit small but anything is an improvement over the stockers! the most noteable thing to notice with the cam sprocket is not how much power you GAIN but to notice how it changes your power curve. you can adjust your powerband with it to make more power where you want but there is a "Sweet spot" where you'll produce more peak power than others.

[slow 2K2GT]

true it might make a small difference but not enough to fail emissions if he happens to get spot checked, I had that happen in Ottawa. Just started the car in a parking lot and was letting it warm up, a Po-po ordered me to have it sniffed because it was smelling really bad, and it was even with a good cat...yeah I failed.

[only1db]

um...cold start...well here in my county in pa...we have emissions...but you pull it in and there really isnt a cold start test...they just make sure there are no cels and your not puffing out huge amounts of smoke....i'm not really concerned with it...

toy you lucky SOB...they dont have any emissions at all...if i was only two miles north...i wouldnt have emissions either...o well.


i would not worry about emissions...the only time really you will puff smoke is at full throttle...

[slow 2K2GT]

no there isnt emissions in my town either, I am lucky about that. Also when they tested my car they let it sit for over an hour in the early spring so it was a little chilly and it cooled off. Oh well, that car is gone, gonna do it right this time!

Back on topic
I would say go with the S/C, alpine has the carb expemption number on it, its nice if you want to keep it low maintenance, Alpine also offers a smaller pulley for the blower so you can up the boost!

[steven]

^^ thats they way I'm going to go if I decide to go boost.

[slow 2K2GT]

go and take a peek through the Alpine supercharger thread in the FI forum, there is the whole wait and lifespan of the blower while in Fords posession.

[only1db]

actually the only CARB legal...is the V6 intercooled supercharger...the I4 is not CARB legal...yet anyway...

[slow 2K2GT]

yes you are right there, but it wont make you fail emissions with just a straight bolt on.

[steven]

and if so just unbolt it lol ;)

[only1db]

yeah i suppose...but it just doesnt have the carb exception...but you dont live in cali so there is no need for that....

open mouth...insert foot.

[Rystibby04]

toy...u dont have emissions tests....hmm must be nice...

[burkej62]

Schuykill county = WTF is emmisons hahah


Gotta love backwoods hillbilly garages .

[only1db]

i think it will be coming to all pa counties sometime in the near future...only a matter of time...

all tuners should just move to florida...they dont even has inspection. i have seen some ****ty rides down there...they wouldnt even pass in the backwoods around here.

[steven]

To florida I come tons of rice and no snow ;)

[Cypher]

hah. i'm in florida now. theres alot of nice cars down here.

[only1db]

hell thats one of the reasons i contimplated moving there...

[jrod13]

I live in MN. No emissions testing here. And I am pretty sure the OBX header gives gains. I hit 129 whp with the OBX a SRI, and a custom 2 1/4" exhaust with a ****ty straight through muffler.

[only1db]

it might show gains...but the contruction is not the best around.

[jrod13]

I won't argue with that. Although 2 MN winters so far, and it seems to be holding up fine.

[Munky]

I don't know anyone in Indiana who has had to submit to emissions testing.

[algoesfast1]

Man I changed my email address and I couldn't post anymore. I have read alot about the supercharger and I think its going to work for me. I'm not looking to race vetts or anything just to have fun. And 50 extra hp should do it.

[thewilson]

If you can manage to hide it under the stock engine cover I would love to see some pics that would be so rad

[only1db]

yeah minus the belt going to something that normally isnt there...

[thewilson]

Obviously. The main idea is that some one just taking a quick glance wouldnt notice it they might hear it but not see it