"Perfect" Auto-x car?

[BobMs_wht2k2]

This question was posed by my wife, and later by my parents at dinner. If I could pick a car to compete in auto-x what would it be.

That my friends is a tough question. A Civic atch, late 90's era is an automatic thought. Small, light and fast. But what about some of the newcomers? Like the 2.5 Subaru, the new Aerio SX4, the new Accent SE.

I'd still love a C5 vette to run. But money IS a consideration. . .
Those 3 come to mind, but at $20k a pop, not a feasible option.

So. . . for $1-5k, what would YOU build/buy?

[BColeman]

For Autocross, an older Subaru 2.5RS would be perfect. Two doors, AWD, and a lot of power adders out there. And you can pick one up in good condition for under $5K.

Review Write Up (http://www.nctd.com/review-intro.cfm?Vehicle=1995_Subaru_Impreza&ReviewID=197)

KBB Priced Out Version (http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/PricingReport.aspx?ManufacturerId=47&YearId=1995&VehicleClass=UsedCar&VehicleId=Ny8yMC8yMDA3fDgzNTM%3d&PriceType=Trade-In&ModelId=270&Mileage=75000&SelectionHistory=8353%7c3810%7c27106%7c0%7c0%7c310 402%7ctrue&Condition=Good&QuizConditions=0)

[hyunelan2]

If we were talking new, Cooper-S?

Staying within $1-$5K though... hmm.

They wouldn't work for my 6'4" ***, but what about an older Miata or Del Sol? Small, lightweight, and low to the ground.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I like the Miata's alot. But I can't really fit my 6' 230 body in one so well.

[TX-GT]

I like the Miata's alot. But I can't really fit my 6' 230 body in one so well.

Ditto on that! I am short waisted so my eye line is right on the front header where the top closes.... 6" 240#

My XD would probably be faster if I wasn't so fat.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

My XD would probably be faster if I wasn't so fat.

Amen!!

[evan938]

start jogging and go with the miata. we've got a few around here that do very well, and there seems to be a good aftermarket for them. im 5'11-6'0, 205 lbs and dont have any problems fitting in one

[hyunelan2]

I'm 6'4" and look over the windshield. Leg room is sufficient though.

[babygogetter]

The miata is nice........but I have always like thearly 90 Toyota MR2.....guess its not really any bigger than the miata is.

[jayupark]

if you can squeeze in, an older supercharged MR2.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I'd LOVE to find a Suzuki Swift GT.

[jalmir]

I'm 6'4" and look over the windshield. Leg room is sufficient though.

Same here, I'm also 6'4" and my eyes are right in the top bar of the windshield.

[hyunelan2]

I'd LOVE to find a Suzuki Swift GT.



^^^Coming to the U.S. for 2010. Good luck finding an old one though. I almost suggested a Swift, but the chances of finding one are so small I figured I wouldn't even bother mentioning it.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

There's 2 listed on eBay. One is an auto (big no-no) and the other is one badazz little turbo.

THIS ONE (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZUKI-SWIFT-GT-GTI-TURBO-FMIC-3-STAINLESS-EXHAUST_W0QQitemZ130133873363QQihZ003QQcategoryZ64 68QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[mtlelantra]

If we were talking new, Cooper-S?

The last generation ones had uber-horrible understeer when pushed in corners. Haven't driven the redesigned ones though.

[Ugzz]

a yellow voltswagon micro bus!
no but seriously i went to a vw show where they did time trials and dood entered in his bus.. he almost tipped over on the raised curves!

[BColeman]

That Swift looks like it's got an older generate DSM 4G63 in it. Did Suzuki team with Mitsubishi back in the day?

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Nope, those were 'zuk's engines. Believe it or not, they make some amazing domestic market micro cars. Before the GM merger back in the day, they built all their own stuff.

[BColeman]

Wow, that's cool. The likenesses, at least in head/valve cover design are very similar. Even the location of the engine and tranny.

That's a pretty cool ride, but I'm afraid if you bid on it, the price will go more than you want it to. It be interesting to see you Auto-X it though.

[Keyan]

Toyota MR2, hands down.

And for a little more fun, a toyota MR-S; With the auto-stick function (m/t coupled to a multi-position solenoid that works the clutch and actuators that work the linkages)

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Oh gawd no. . . I bid on that and my wife would have my head on a stick in front of the house to warn all newcomers of their fate.

[BColeman]

There aren't too many times that I actually catch myself laughing out loud at peoples comments, but you Bob have qualified for one of those rarities. Thanks for the laugh, and make sure you let the wife know that I've got nothing but respect for her while she has you by the balls.

[CornbreadXD]

that swift looks really tempting, but for >5k i'd go in a completely different direction with a 58-61 mga roadster, and they can be found for $4000 or a 510 datsun. They can both easily handle the autox tracks w/ cheap mods. This would be fun to have too for $3000
http://pfmracing.com/pages/1973-Celica.php
Note* these would be for classic auto-x

[Cypher]

toyota mr2, mk3 gen (90-95?) with the turbo. BADASS little car, handles amazingly and lots of upgrades available.

orrrrrrr a miata. one of THE best handling cars i've ever gotten to drive.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I'm wondering what a Beta swapped Civic would be classed under? That sure would piss off the "Honduh pwnz all" crowd.

[Keyan]

a B-series swapped civic you mean? :eek:

[BobMs_wht2k2]

nO. . . An Elantra Beta II 5-spd swapped into a Civic hatch. So instead of 1900lbs and 100hp and 95ftlbs of torque, it's be 150hp and 145ftlbs .

[tharptroy]

nO. . . An Elantra Beta II 5-spd swapped into a Civic hatch. So instead of 1900lbs and 100hp and 95ftlbs of torque, it's be 150hp and 145ftlbs .

a k24 would probably weigh the same as the beta and have more torque.

that cast iron block is going to cost you, bob

[BobMs_wht2k2]

DUH! But any ricer out there has that swap. I'd rather piss 'em off with the Hyundai swap.

[Lts 05GT]

<$5000, how bout a 92 Lexus sc 400, or 93 bmw740i (little big ya, but nice), or more realisticaly a 318i, and of course theres always the porche 924/944turbo, or nissan 300zx tt, suby svx, 80-89 audi quattro, and any rotarty rx7, supra, 91 escort gt (laugh all you want), rabbit gti, all can be found for less than 5k. Take your pick! I think the cheapest best out of all would be the audi oldschools, quattro, 100, fox, 1000 ect.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

If I was gonna go big like a 740, I'd do a B-body Caprice. Audi's, Bmw's and porshe are just too expensive to maintain. If I did an RX7 it would have to be an LS1/T56 swap, Hell no on the Toyoduh, 300Z see RX7, SVX is an interesting idea but not much in the way of suspension, Escort is a possibility, same idea as a Geo Storm.

[mregt02]

An oldschool BMW E30, Mid 80's 325i, there's tons of parts and support for those and since there's a big enough spec series, parts can be found for good money too.

Now use the same sentence as above but replace BMW E30, Mid 80's 325i with Miata and they can be tons o' fun.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I just can't bring myself to go GErman, UNLESS it was a Catera with an LS1/T-56 swap. But that wouldn't be a cheap nor easy swap.

[xdforme22]

SVX (questionable aftermarket?), 300zx, or a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 twin turbo.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

3000GT will get creamed in auto-x. AWD, turbos and that weight against the STi's and Evo's. Not a chance!

300ZX is just too old of a platform. THe G35/new Z are decent in STX, but not as fast as others.

The SVX is cool, but that car scares me. Little known car, even less aftermarket. Probably be fun, but how much will it cost?

I like the idear of a 2.5RS, Swift GT(I) or an Accent.

[Cypher]

accent it is then!

[CornbreadXD]

beta swapped accent can go for under $5000

[Tommy]

MR2 Mk1 or Mk2, but mk2 unlikely for less than $5k in good condition. 4th Gen Celica GTS with the 3SGE, or All-trac 3SGTE.

Mk2 VW GTI 8v. 16's are fun, but too high reving, 8's have much better low end torque, plus they are the classic auto-xer

Miatas are always fun.

Dodge Neon ACR - bad *** little factory econo racer. factory adjustable suspension, DOHC engine pumpin 150ish hp i believe

B13 SE-R cant argue with a classic with sr20de reliablity and power

All the best auto-xer's for less than $5k are 15-20 years old these days. Back in the glory days of the sport compact, way too many great cheap choices in the early 90's late 80's

You dont want anything with a motor swap, youll never get to compete with anyone but yourself. Cheap, well geared, decent powered/balanced stock cars are the best to start with. Learn to drive it, then mod it when you are competitive in your class.

[Silentwolf]

Here's what you want Bob.
Drive by
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXmu_obZPcA&NR=1
LS1 equipped Miata!!!
Walkaround
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPuhA2taax4...related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPuhA2taax4&mode=related&search=)

[CaseyGT2001]

you can do what I did.....
start copying Chris Shennefield's setup in this Champion car.


you can ffind a 89-91 (89 preferred) Civic Si for <$1200, but make sure the tranny and engine are in decent shape.

then follow this guide to build a winner.... http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=12

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Yeah. . .But everyone has a chitvic. Lookin for something different. I still think a Swift has some serious potential.

[saturn]

Yeah. . .But everyone has a chitvic. Lookin for something different. I still think a Swift has some serious potential.

I rarely see good american cars used in autocross

it'd also be interesting to setup a totally sh*tty car for autocross (geo prizm, ford festiva/fiesta)

[BobMs_wht2k2]

89 Caprice. . . ..

[Silentwolf]

Bob american cars havnt been called land boats for nothing.
Think it would take a lot of work to even think an 89 caprice could be competetive and by the time that work is done u'll be in SM or STU

[CaseyGT2001]

I suppose my suggestion was tjust a proven "perfect" autocrosser for the sub $5000 limitation. Sure there may be other options, but there are a lot of things to consider. What class are you hoping to run? You can more easily get into a stock class for 5K where a car + wheels & tires + catback + struts = full prep. But if you want a competitive AutoXer in a non-stock class, it narrows the field substantially. In addition, finding those diamond in the rough cars, even if it's a an inexpensive little suzuki is going to cost a lot more to get set up right. No one has done the leg work to tell you exactly how to make those cars preform well.

The civic is very fun, economical, class winning and easy car to autocross. Plus, like it or not, it's faster than any elantra (and most other cars for that matter) in the same class be it HS or STS.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Actually, the Zuk's have been road raced for years. But the cost is higher than a chitvic.

As for the Caprice, I would fully prepare to tun it in a Prepared class. The car was "only" 3500lbs. Pull the interior, hvac, heavy bumpers (fiberglass instead), hood. Full hotchkis suspension, LS2 and T-56 (lose 100lbs over the iron 5.7/700R4) with 17x9 lightweight wheels and 275/45 rubber all around. You'e looking at a 400hp, 3000lb car with attitude.

[mregt02]

it's still a big car in the end Bob, autox doesn't favor big cars usually, dude running his 600+ hp Z06 at our autox has a hard time keeping the car in check, it's big and has sooooo much power that it's really tough to modulate the gas pedal properly. Fun to watch and I'm sure it's fun to drive but not a great autox car due to how hard it is to drive in such a format. my .02$.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I think the caprice would be a better road course car. But fun nonetheless!

[CaseyGT2001]

the people who have time, money, and commitment to find the fastest cars for autocross are listed here in last year's nationals results (http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/Combined%20Nationals.pdf) You'll find a "perfect" autocrosser make/model listed there.
actually, if you want a full-prep, fun drive for less than 5K, get a 125cc shifter and trailer.


HS results had 2 Civics in the top 12, mixed in with the swath of coopers.
STS was won by a 92 240SX which could be pretty cheap to race, but the overwhelming number was 89 civics. Notice Chris Shenefield there in 2nd with his 06 Si about .4 seconds off.

look through there and see what you can find. ultimately, agility not top speed, wins out in autoX. notice the elises wining over the Z06s in superstock.

[THE_VIC]

wow this was a great discussion...it shock me to see that the swift is such a good autox car i always see them where i live and i thought they were crappy cars....now i know better

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Time, money? What are those? :abovelol:

[hyunelan2]

Time, money? What are those? :abovelol:

I think you can get those if you saw the horn off of a unicorn.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Sweet! point me to the nearest unicorn (as I hold my trusty Swiss army knife in hand).

[mtlelantra]

$$$ notwithstanding - Prodrive P2.

There's that rally-winning woo-zuki Swift up here in Canada, wonder how well it could be modified to auto-x...?

[BobMs_wht2k2]

wow this was a great discussion...it shock me to see that the swift is such a good autox car i always see them where i live and i thought they were crappy cars....now i know better

THe Swift is a POS. THe Mk2 (first US generation) GT(I)'s were the good ones to get. THey had the DOHC 1.3 were the later Swifts had the SOHC turd.

I think the Accent SE(new) could be a real contender. But, seeing as the National winners don't run them, no one else will either. Same scenario as the SX4 from 'Zuk. Both are competant vehicles stock, but since they don't say Honduh or Subaru no one will touch them.

I know what the National winners are using. Show me something different. Something they are afraid to try,.

[Tommy]

ok, im questioning your knoweldge of the theory of auto-x at this point. its like 90% driver and 10% car. Swift / Geo LSI or whatever it was arent that bad, ive seen some guys be competitive with them, but they're hard to come by in any sort of raceable shape.

Chevy caprise is about the worst idea ive ever heard of for any sort of race car except a drag car. power would be completly wasted with that archaic car unless you were in a straight line. damn thing wouldnt even fit between the cones, you'd loose 40 sec on the saloms because theres no way it would turn that quickly.

although one of the funnier cars id ever seen run was a dude who ran a mid-90's SS impala. handled like a wet turd, but he had a blast doing it. 80's camero's are equally entertaining. who needs a lift to check out the suspension components when you can just take a slow curve at 20mph and watch the body roll 6" in the air.

[BColeman]

Do you all really think Bob is serious about a Chevy Caprice for Auto Crossing? If you do, you've been had, and you don't obviously know Bob.

Now, back on topic, Bob, what about a 1989 to 1991 Dodge Colt/Mitsubishi Mirage GT. It FWD, 2 door hatchback, factory turbo charged 4G61 motor. They are bad *** in the 1/4 mile. And I'm sure with a few stock parts off of other Mitsu cars, you can have quite a contender. It's something new too.

[Lts 05GT]

or how bout... 06 vette, race ready, fiberglass body, nothing except driver seat and 5 point harness, not street legal, 16k out the door. no worrys on longevity, ls1 and 6speed should hold up for a while ;) so why not build a audi 1000 to the hilt, bought for 1k + 4k mods = 11k left over = *** kickin machine!!

[Silentwolf]

Not going to find an 06 Vette for 16k.

[Tommy]

Do you all really think Bob is serious about a Chevy Caprice for Auto Crossing? If you do, you've been had, and you don't obviously know Bob.

Now, back on topic, Bob, what about a 1989 to 1991 Dodge Colt/Mitsubishi Mirage GT. It FWD, 2 door hatchback, factory turbo charged 4G61 motor. They are bad *** in the 1/4 mile. And I'm sure with a few stock parts off of other Mitsu cars, you can have quite a contender. It's something new too.


could be interesting. IF they could be found, i bet you could get the car and rebuild that old tired motor, rebuild the suspension, clean it up a bit and have a blast for less than 5g.

If you want some real fun, grab an SR20DE powered car (Nx2000, B13 SE-R) for like $1500, do up the suspension as best you can, rebuild the engine and trans if theyre tired, and have a blast with an extra grand or 2 in your pocket. and if you want some real fun, turbo the thing and you can pull 12/13 sec quarters and still be reliable for the drive to/from the track.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

ACtually I'd love to do a Caprice for giggles. Anyone that ever got to drive a 9C1 in the older bodystyle understands what I say when it handled better than the same year CAmaro.

We've had Crown Vics and Impalas run down the auto-x course in FS. THey are a ball to watch.

Yes it's mostly driver, but even a great driver is a chitty car will suck.

[Lts 05GT]

Not going to find an 06 Vette for 16k.

Not true, they sell them new, race ready, not street legal(no lights, 1 seat, no aux equipment, bare bones) for 15-20k

[Silentwolf]

What!!?? U gotta show me this!

[saturn]

haha yeah me too wtf? 16k vette with no useless crap in it? sounds good to me!

reminds me of the porsche GT3
its a carerra without all the useless crap in it, huge brakes, perfect car.

[Silentwolf]

But a 115k price tag :( Beautiful car tho!

[saturn]

its a PERFECT car.

video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i89-UkDfC4U

[Lts 05GT]

What!!?? U gotta show me this!

I can't seem to find any info on it, but on the show Top Gear the guy was going thru all the different race ready cars, atom, evo, ect. and one of them was a bare bones 05 or 06 vette for $16k. Like I said, no lights, no radio, no ac, 1 seat, no carpet, no panels. I know its out there, just don't know where the info is.

Edit: but I did find this, theres a few for less than 5k: http://www.thinkbling.com/vehicles/road_racing.htm

[mtlelantra]

Top Gear, 05 or 06 vette for $16k.

Seeing that Top Gear is from the UK, are you sure they didn't say 16k pounds?

[Lts 05GT]

Seeing that Top Gear is from the UK, are you sure they didn't say 16k pounds?

Might have, but thats like... $40k, I am pretty sure that he said dollars. Ill keep lookin.

[soullesselantra]

from what i hear the SVO makes a great auto-x car...as do SRT-4's

An oldschool BMW E30, Mid 80's 325i, there's tons of parts and support for those and since there's a big enough spec series, parts can be found for good money too.

Now use the same sentence as above but replace BMW E30, Mid 80's 325i with Miata and they can be tons o' fun.

hey bob, theres even local support for the e30 up in westfield, thats where i get my parts from for my 325

[Cypher]

i don't know if bob would drive a ford

[Tommy]

from what i hear the SVO makes a great auto-x car...as do SRT-4's



hey bob, theres even local support for the e30 up in westfield, thats where i get my parts from for my 325


SVO? As in ****ty 80's mustang? thats a terrible idea, handles just as bad as the caprice.

E30's are the shiznit though. Id rock one from here to next week if i had the chance.

[soullesselantra]

SVO? As in ****ty 80's mustang? thats a terrible idea, handles just as bad as the caprice.

E30's are the shiznit though. Id rock one from here to next week if i had the chance.

yeah...real ****ty handling...wanna hit the twisties against my stock 84?


SVO Development History

From the beginning emphasis was placed on handling. The projected SVO run of 10,000 units per year created many problems for the engineering team. Take the shocks for example, the entire year's SVO production could be met in less than a week. This was deemed to be too expensive. Koni who produced the shocks for the Shelby Mustangs in years past was more than happy to oblige. TRW produced the rack with special valving that gives the SVO its characteristic "on center feel". Dyken produced the clutch, as Ford had no 4 cylinder clutch that would hold up to the power and torque of the new turbo 2.3.

The SVO was to have 4 wheel disc brakes for competition high speed stops and fade resistance. The brake system was adapted form the Lincoln to the SVO. The reason for the large rear calipers and rotors? There are federal safety standards on brakes. One test is, get the brakes very hot, smoking hot, park the car on a 17 degree hill and set the emergency brake to the first click that will hold the car in place. The car must remain in place 30 minutes, if not, it fails the test.

The SVO team wanted a 17 inch tire but felt the cost would be too great, so they settled for a 16 inch tire. GM was using Goodyear "Gatorbacks" on the Corvette. However, the Gatorback was a proprietary GM pattern. Thus the NCT tire that was designed for the Porsche 928 was used until Goodyear designed the SVO its own Gatorback. The Dearborn Assembly Plant had no machinery to mount and balance 16 inch wheels. Automatic machinery was developed to mount and balance the new 16" tires. This same machinery is still used today in the Dearborn Facility for 16 and 17 inch tires.

The hood also faced many hurdles in the development stages. It seems that Ford has a test, in which a hood must be dropped from full open position, stop on the bumpers without chipping the paint. This test failed several times before the hood was reinforced and additional bumpers were added.

The 1984 Mustang SVO
In late 1983 enter the Mustang SVO. The SVO received rear disk brakes and larger front disc brakes. Stiffer bushings and spring rates combined with Koni adjustable struts, and shocks (preset by Koni to the City Ride), spindles and control arms, a larger front sway bar and rear sway bar. To round out this remarkably handling Mustang, Goodyear European NCT radials were mounted on unique 16 x 7 inch wheels. Later the SVO would receive Goodyear Eagle 225 50 Gatorbacks. The power steering was a high effort 20:1 ratio.

[Tommy]

sure, ill take a 23 year old stock suspension vs a 2 year old stock suspension any day. doesnt matter who designed it or what it was, after 23 years, its gonna be soggy anyways.

not to mention handling is more driver than machine, which is something a lot of people who start auto-xing forget. Ive tagged better times in an elantra and a 85 GTI than plenty of people in WRX's and SE-R's and Mini-Coopers.

Its not about what you have, its how you use it (right ladies :D)

I mean, the SVO might be a decent handling mustang, and it is a completly different type of setup compaired to an elantra, but all in all, its still a Fox mustang, and there's not much you can do to a design that was outdated when it was introduced. Drive a few sporty german cars of the same era and say the mustang was on par with them.

[soullesselantra]

i do every day...1985 BMW 325e, and have driven mid 80's porsches and i would still take my SVO over any of them...hell, given the choice i would run my SVO before my XD2 anyday...

[BobMs_wht2k2]

You mean like turning 5 second better times than a new RSX-S that has a couple hundred pounds and 60hp on me? Or a 1.8T AWD Audi? Or 3 civic hatches that had NO interior?

Yeah, been there got that. Now get off the soap box preaching about how it's all driver and not the car.

I've thought about a late 80's, early 90's Fox body with the trunk. Those are very fast cars with more aftermarket support than you couls shake a stick at. But those, just like the SVO's are hard to come by and when you do fine one not ragged out it'll cost you $6-10k.

I WILL NOT buy any BMW, period. Same with the neon. Just not gonna happen. I do have standards here and will not start with junk.

[soullesselantra]

hey Bob, an SVO wouldnt be too hard for you to find...mine is actually for sale :D and i know where i could find you a coupe for a decent price too

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Actually, THIS (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-Swift-GTi-Twin-Cam-5-Speed-41mpg-Geo-Metro-Clone_W0QQitemZ190134290318QQihZ009QQcategoryZ6468 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) is what I'd really like to play with.

[soullesselantra]

lol...looks like fun, but also looks like a geo...

[saturn]

mazda 323 (old one) and 89-91 toyota carolla are fun autox cars.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

lol...looks like fun, but also looks like a geo...

Exactly. How cool is it to have one of the FTD's in what appears to be a Geo Metro!!! Those 1.3's really wake up with a header, exhaust and intake. that little 1.3L 100hp turns out closer to 120hp and still weighs 1750lbs before my fat azz.

[soullesselantra]

lol...why not drop a beta in that? lol

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Why? That little 'Zuk motor can handle serious amounts of boost and push over 300hp out of 1.3L. Why would I want to add weight?

[soullesselantra]

i didnt know it was biult that well

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Remember that red one I posted on the first page? It was at 300 WHP. Stock block/heads and some dished pistons with 16psi.

[soullesselantra]

damn...makes me wonder what dished pistons and 2 more PSI would do for the SVO...its at about 240 right now "untuned"

[Tommy]

Im curious how a Neon or a BMW is junk when a Metro is your top choice.

If you want something out of the ordinary, and you like the idea of a Pinto Engine'd race car, at least go for the Merkur XR4Ti and drive something the kids on the course will have never heard of.

OR

Have some real fun with a MG or a Triumph. A midget or a TR6 would be a blast on the course, plus youll look good doin it :D

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Tommy, it's called professional opinion. I get to see what it's really like to own one of these turds after they are new. The last 6 years I've watched bmw's come in, get inspected and go right back to the auction. I've priced those parts out time and time again, knowingthat every 3-series needs both front control arms because they're bent, rear trailing arms, oil coolers from leaks. . . then there's the Neon (hi). Head gaskets that cannot seem to stay in place is enough for me to say no.

THe Swift is not a Metro. THe metro was a POS that Suzuki built for GM to their specs. The Swift was what Suzuki actually built in Japan. Small, powerful and nimble. The Swift never came to the US with a 3-cyl.

Personaly, what is there not to like about a 1750lb car with over 100hp and a stiff suspension? Seriously.

As for the Triumh's, never got into their styling and with the typical British dependability I'd spend more time trying to keep it running than actually racing it.

If it's not the Swift, I'll probably look for a non-abused Miata.

THIS (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1991-MAZDA-SCCA-MIATA-NEEDS-TLC-COLD-A-C-EXTRAS_W0QQitemZ170133925396QQihZ007QQcategoryZ632 4QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) looks nice.

[saturn]

why don't the british make computers?

they haven't figured out how to make them leak oil.

...


I've heard of a murker. I was actually thinking the other day "that'd maybe make a cool autox car"

[BobMs_wht2k2]

^^ :abovelol: That is classic! Gotta remember that one for later.

The Merkur XR4Ti was . . . an "intersting" beast.

[saturn]

it was just a ford with a turbo, right?

[BobMs_wht2k2]

It was a european Ford, brought to the US as a Merkur. THey handled good IIRC, but they weren't the pillar of dependability.

[soullesselantra]

Im curious how a Neon or a BMW is junk when a Metro is your top choice.

If you want something out of the ordinary, and you like the idea of a Pinto Engine'd race car, at least go for the Merkur XR4Ti and drive something the kids on the course will have never heard of.

OR

Have some real fun with a MG or a Triumph. A midget or a TR6 would be a blast on the course, plus youll look good doin it :D


this is for you Tommy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTlQk9AoTa0&mode=related&search=

and the XR4Ti has the same 2.3l turbo that the SVO does...

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Looks like the entire suspension for the Swift I can buy at wholesale. H&R's, Koni yellows, Bridgestone RE-01R's, braided brake lines and pads and the wheels from Discount. Total cost $1300.

[soullesselantra]

damn! that aint too bad

[Tommy]

this is for you Tommy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTlQk9AoTa0&mode=related&search=

and the XR4Ti has the same 2.3l turbo that the SVO does...

I know exactly what it is, thats why i recommended it, same engine, and i believe the suspension is actually a bit better with the independant rear suspension. For that matter, go get a Turbocoupe Thunderbird if you are set on getting a beefed up Pinto engine.

The metro/swift/firefly/forsa are identical cars mechanically. all were produced in Japan/Canada.


100hp and 1750lbs is great, but the thing's got no Tq. it runs like a honda, 83ft/lbs. HP means nothing, its the tq that gets you moving. Thats the reason i said VW GTI vs the Swift GT is because with the 1.8l 8v you get 10+hp and 32+ tq. with the 16v, the gains are even greater, and even more so with the 2.0l 16v, plus with that one you get Recaro seats from the factory. VW is also going to have better/more options for upgrades and finding one/maintaining one is going to be much easier. Id be afraid of maxing out the car very quickly with the Swift.


How about a Mitsu Starion? or Maybe a Colt GT? turbo's are always fun. Seen some Feiro's do well too, but fire suites are expensive.

[soullesselantra]

hell lookin at cars like that an Omni GLH-T would be great too

[Silentwolf]

perhaps you need to read this.
http://www.geocities.com/k_durette/torque_vs_hp/

[Tommy]

and i can say you should read this
http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/EnginePower.html

But it doesnt matter, its all relative. a car is a car, drive what ya like. Its not like auto-x is any less fun with one car vs the other. Guy hasnt even said what class or how competitive he wants to be. Not like there's one perfect car anyways. Every car has its stregnths and weaknesses.

What ive wanted to do is run racing karts on the track. club i race with allows them in a special class, usually not more than 1-2 guys running them if any, but they put down some sick numbers and look like they're having a blast doing it.

actually, another fun/viable option if you can tow the car is a Formula Vee.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Vee

They only weigh about 1000lbs, and i believe thats right at the top of the Elantra's capacity.

Ive seen them for sale in the 5-6k range, and you're race ready.

[Silentwolf]

That actually made a bit more sense.

[Tommy]

its an interesting read. whether it means jack i dunno, im not a mechanical engineer.

realistically, you shouldnt look at max hp numbers. youve gotta look at what hp/tq you are developing at what rpm. 100hp/tq at the top of the rev line doesnt mean anything if you arent driving a course that allows you to keep the rpm's that high.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Tq is great when you have a heavy car. The VW's need the extra tq because they are typically quite a bit heavier.

The Swift would probably run in STS against the Civics, IMO a perfect matchup. One light, fast no tq car against another. Civic hatches pretty much rule the roost in STS. I'm about 2-3 seconds slower in the Elantra than them. Would experience and a better setup help me catch them in the Elantra? Probably not. They've got almost a thousand pounds on me with me in the car.

The nice(r) thing about the swift is it doesn't have to get "into vtec" to make it's power, it's a gradual climb up the scale. You don't have to keep it wound to stay in that narrow band. Plus, being a hundred or so lbs lighter with the same power and lack of torque should make it a fairly close match between the two.

My choices are pretty much down to The Swift GTi, the Accent GT (97-99), Fiero GT(se). Of the 3,the swift is easier and cheaper for suspension, the Accent makes a bit more power but at a cost of weight and the fiero is just cool. All 3 are almost impossible to find in decent shape for a reasonable price.

[slyderdai]

my neigbor has a 440 volvo turbo intercooled with an auto tranny for 2500 and he also has a bmw 318 i for 1500 it needs a clutch but he has the replacement parts for it really good shape for both of em pm me if your interested i'll get you his number

[soullesselantra]

there was a Fiero down the street from me that was FS...i dont know any specifics, but can get them if its still available

[Tommy]

Tq is great when you have a heavy car. The VW's need the extra tq because they are typically quite a bit heavier.

The Swift would probably run in STS against the Civics, IMO a perfect matchup. One light, fast no tq car against another. Civic hatches pretty much rule the roost in STS. I'm about 2-3 seconds slower in the Elantra than them. Would experience and a better setup help me catch them in the Elantra? Probably not. They've got almost a thousand pounds on me with me in the car.

The nice(r) thing about the swift is it doesn't have to get "into vtec" to make it's power, it's a gradual climb up the scale. You don't have to keep it wound to stay in that narrow band. Plus, being a hundred or so lbs lighter with the same power and lack of torque should make it a fairly close match between the two.

My choices are pretty much down to The Swift GTi, the Accent GT (97-99), Fiero GT(se). Of the 3,the swift is easier and cheaper for suspension, the Accent makes a bit more power but at a cost of weight and the fiero is just cool. All 3 are almost impossible to find in decent shape for a reasonable price.

the mk1/2 GTI's weigh next to nothing. Mk1 is sub 2k lbs easy, mk2 is right about 2k. Thats both fully stock. You could shave a few pounds here and there without anyone noticing.

The STS cars that ive run against that always do well are WRX's, Mini-Coopers, 240sx's and Neons. Rarely see many civics in that class here. Infact, i dont see many civics in general. There's one guy with an integra that does really well, but i think he could probably drive anything and damn near dominate.

[TheKoreanSaab]

I am shocked by everyone and the fact no one has mentioned this car. How bout a B-series motorswapped 2nd Gen Honda CRX. Light weight, short wheel base. I see these things killing all kinds of cars in Auto-X. I believe it was the lightest car Honda has built in the last 20 years here in America. I believe they were just a little over 2000 pounds.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Well, WRX's should be in STU IIRC. A standard Impreza can compete in STS. 2k lbs is still a tick heavier than a civic of the era. so that's not a step "up" to me by any means. Mass kills on a small track.

Motor swapped anything puts the cars into "big money" classes that I just can't compete in. Buying $700 of race rubber each year on top of all the work to make it competitive is not my idea of fun.

Andy, I think I saw the one you're talking about on craigs list. It was an auto unfortunately.

I can't do anything for at least another 18-24 months because of the wife's graduate school and all available "play" money going into that. But after . . . that's another story.

I'm not sure how many times I need to say this, but I am NOT interested in european cars. No Bimmers, mercs, volvos or audis. Cost of parts alone would bankrupt me.

[Silentwolf]

Yep nothing cheaper to buy for than a rice car. :tongue:

(except ours :()

[soullesselantra]

our car isnt a rice car...its a kimchi car!

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Wait, I thought we were bamboo burners.

[Tommy]

I am shocked by everyone and the fact no one has mentioned this car. How bout a B-series motorswapped 2nd Gen Honda CRX. Light weight, short wheel base. I see these things killing all kinds of cars in Auto-X. I believe it was the lightest car Honda has built in the last 20 years here in America. I believe they were just a little over 2000 pounds.

Yea, honda motorswaps and auto-x are not a good combo for someone wanting to be competitive. Youll end up in a street mod class and have a helluva time keeping your wallet in your pants paying for all the upgrades and tires youll need to keep up with everyone else.

I believe the WRX is allowed in STS but not the STI. Those get stuck into STX i think.

[Choking Hazard]

The perfect AutoX car?

seeing if money was not an option...

an early VW GTi. 90-92 era. 1.8T swap from a 99 Passat (I pick this motor as it was one of the only years to have the big runner mani), bored over .40, stroked out to 2.2L, solid lifter conversion, GT30R compressor. Audi Quattro drivetrain swap.

Small, light, AWD. super competitive. However...the work that would go into the drivetrain swap makes is very costly. The motor swap is easy...

[Silentwolf]

Wait, I thought we were bamboo burners.

If it Asian, its rice.

[saturn]

my friend has a 99 GTI that dies on left turns for sale, $500.

[Cypher]

^ LOL that made my day.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I think I have decided what to scour the land for in 2 years. 1989 Swift GT.

Compared to the 91 Civic Si (which happens to be the STS dominating car) it is 545 lbs lighter!!!!!!!!

That's right . . . . here's the specs:

. . . . . . . Chitvic . . . . .Swift
Engine . . .1.6L SOHC . . .1.3L DOHC
Weight . . .2286 . . . . . .1741
hp@rpm. . . .110@6000 . . .103@6400
tq@rpm . . .95@5000 . . . .83@5000

545lbs less, missing only 7hp and 12ftlbs with DOHC. I think the reason they aren't used so much is their obscurity and hard to find status. There's Supsensions, headers, exhaust, PCM's. I can't imagine a 125hp N/A 1700 car. That's pushing Lotus Elise weight/power ratios.

[cclngthr]

I think I have decided what to scour the land for in 2 years. 1989 Swift GT.

Compared to the 91 Civic Si (which happens to be the STS dominating car) it is 545 lbs lighter!!!!!!!!

That's right . . . . here's the specs:

. . . . . . . Chitvic . . . . .Swift
Engine . . .1.6L SOHC . . .1.3L DOHC
Weight . . .2286 . . . . . .1741
hp@rpm. . . .110@6000 . . .103@6400
tq@rpm . . .95@5000 . . . .83@5000

545lbs less, missing only 7hp and 12ftlbs with DOHC. I think the reason they aren't used so much is their obscurity and hard to find status. There's Supsensions, headers, exhaust, PCM's. I can't imagine a 125hp N/A 1700 car. That's pushing Lotus Elise weight/power ratios.

The Elise N/A power is 180 out of the 1.8 liter I4. The weight of that is 1984 pounds. I know. A friend of mine insanely bought one for her 17 year old spoiled brat she calls a son.

[saturn]

daihatsu charade

http://thegarageblog.com/garage/wp-content/uploads/charade.jpg

they're owned by toyota now
didn't sell too well in the US due to the unfortunate name

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Finding one of those even RUNNING in the US is going to make finding a decent Swift GT look like a walk in the park!

Plus. . .anything owned by Toyoduh will not get my money again. The last yoduh was a rolling money pit.

[soullesselantra]

my friend has a 99 GTI that dies on left turns for sale, $500.

are you serious? and is it still for sale? i cant believe i missed that...

[Cypher]

buy it for me for xmas andy:tongue:

[soullesselantra]

buy it for me for xmas andy:tongue:

shiiiiit :D i was gonna buy it for me cause diesel is expensive :D

[Cypher]

damn, I need a beater.... stupid f'ing hospital bill kicking my ***.

[saturn]

are you serious? and is it still for sale? i cant believe i missed that...

the vw as far as I know is still sitting in his driveway.

it probably will need to be towed away. and $500 was what he offered to me to buy it so I don't know what he'll ask a non-acquaintance

he first thought it was a power steering issue but it wasn't, and he gave up on it. it's a salvage title. his mom was hit (head-on) but there is minimal body damage (just the grille (broken) and the hood is scratched up - had to use hood pins to keep the hood down)

PM me for his email address, not sure if he's still trying to sell it or what

[soullesselantra]

if he is trying to sell it, ill give you the 500 and come with a trailer when i finally get my truck ready to tow **rolls eyes**...(or rent a uhaul trailer there in cbus)



**edit**
is it the newer body style http://images.autotrader.com/scaler/151/91/pictures/VEHICLE/2002/Volkswagen/100003547/10737-O.jpg or the VR6 http://images.autotrader.com/scaler/151/91/pictures/VEHICLE/1998/Volkswagen/13252/10692-O.jpg ?

[saturn]

um
it looks like the red one
the headlights arent very stylized

it'll need a new grille and probably a new hood if you dont like hood pins.

and it'll need whatever it takes to get it running, not to mention an oil change and maybe some new tires.

its a 5 speed.

[soullesselantra]

once it gets off the trailer, it has nothing but time, as will i during the winter (when im not doin yard jobs in the snow in my truck) so it will probably get a completely custom grille and maybe hood too :D

[Midnightsky]

How about an AWD 2.0T Lancer Evo1? ATM I can get my hands on 1 for under $10,000 with under 100,000km on it, imported from Japan. That car has big potential on the track as a dedicated track car.

[alienman]

My festiva will be a great autocross car... cheap, light, and with my BP engine it is fast...