Rev Limitor

[jimbo3n21]

Hey guys,

does anybody know where the rev limitor is located on an '03 gt?

thanks

[only1db]

um....in the computer...

why would you want to raise the rev limiter?? there is currently no drivetrain parts available (that i know of) that would support going higher...

valves, valve springs...ect.

[kylemorg]

Don't forget lighter pistons, stronger connecting rods, stronger pins, etc, etc. etc.

Once again, Jimbo... Try SEARCH on the top toolbar!!!
http://www.elantraxd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23757&highlight=rev

[BColeman]

If you want a better tune, and a higher top speed, then your only option is a Tiburon ECU.

Thank you kylemorg, but I think we are just beating a DEAD horse with the SEARCH feature.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

You mean you can't just remove a spring or piece and the engine can't rev to 8500 rpms like a honduh? Wow. That sucks. I'm selling this pos and buying something faster.

[BColeman]

^ Hahahahahahahaha:abovelol: :abovelol: :abovelol:

You the man :bowdown: :bowdown:

[BobMs_wht2k2]

How else can I win that street race for pinks against the blown and injected camaro?

[BColeman]

Sorry Bob, but I think you forgot to take your pills this morning, you know, the Ginkoba and Ginseng ones you are supposed to take at your age:D

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Actually I DID forget to take my GLucosamine. I keep forgetting that one. THe doc told me to take it for my knees.

I wonder if we could blow our intake welds if we removed the rev limiter?

[BColeman]

No, but we might blow the welds on the passenger side floor pan, and drag that for 3 miles in a 1/4 mile race.

Not to mention, it might mess with the MOTEC System exhaust we've got, even though that company only makes ECU's. But, hey, if it's in the movies, it must be true, right?

[BobMs_wht2k2]

WHat are you trying to say? F&F isn't a documentary?

[slow 2K2GT]

WHat are you trying to say? F&F isn't a documentary?

Oh no!!!!! MY whole life since that movie has been a lie...:(

[bdiggy]

Actually I DID forget to take my GLucosamine. I keep forgetting that one. THe doc told me to take it for my knees.

Ahhh yes, the good stuff. Right there w/ you man. It really does support healthier joints and cushioning for the bones. My knees and wrists have gotten much better from taking this.
.............And now, back to your regularly scheduled worthless thread.:eek:

[Silentwolf]

No, but we might blow the welds on the passenger side floor pan, and drag that for 3 miles in a 1/4 mile race.

Not to mention, it might mess with the MOTEC System exhaust we've got, even though that company only makes ECU's. But, hey, if it's in the movies, it must be true, right?

Never did understand the reasoning behind that.

On topic:
Um redline can be raised. Just have to spend 350 for a new ECU.
"Shark Racing Performance ECU

OEM ECU is used to remap data to bring out better performance. Redline is increased to 7500RPM, and timing is advanced, to produce higher horsepower and torque throughout the powerband."

All a matter of timming, but i certainly wouldn't take it past that without balancing the block.

[saturn]

my car topped out at 128 this morning

I need nos...


http://www.talkingpix.co.uk/2Fast2FuriousComp2.jpg

[Silentwolf]

Wrong one saturn. :tongue: that quote is from FF1 ur pic is from 2F2F
Personally of all the cars in those movies so far only the Supra did much for me or that BMW M3 GT2

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Actually, I thought it was "Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwssssss"

[lcanajoharie]

This is aweful. LOL. You guys... all of you... aweful. Jimbo the engine will eventually blow up if it revs any higher.

That is all. :)

[kylemorg]

Jimbo the engine will eventually blow up if it revs any higher.

Exactly in layman's terms. The redline is there so your engine doesn't blow up; "maybe not today or tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life."


Try to stay on topic, guys...

[Jonny666]

I wouldnt put it past our rod's to live through a mild increase in RPM.
I mean, they'res guy's running serious power through turbo kits on the stock rod's (400 hp). therefore they are pretty strong.
you dont have to worry about valve float on the exhaust valves because they will never hit the piston... only the intake valves could possibly hit. perhaps some spacers under the intake valves to up the pressure a smidgen would do the trick? along with some seriousl balancing of the bottom end.
spin er to 7200 or so?

[kylemorg]

Adding horsepower on stock rods isn't as hard on them as the reciprocating mass of the pistons is on them. You're only looking at a relatively small increase in load on the rods and bearings from 400 hp versus 130 hp. However, if you take a motor designed to spin at 6500 RPM and increase that to 7500 RPM, you are drastically increasing the load on the rods and pins when the piston changes from upstroke to downstroke between the exhaust and intake stroke. You're likely to lose a piston from the rod at that point if / when the pin breaks and bounce it off the top of the cylinder.

But do whatever you want and let us know how it works out for you (and for how long).

[Jonny666]

The real problem here is our motors cant make power past 5000 rpm anyways..... so I suppose upping the rev limiter is theoretical at best

[BobMs_wht2k2]

^^???? tHAT'S FUNNY, mine pulls to the rev limiter. But I can feel it starting to drop off after 6k.

[Silentwolf]

http://www.sharkracing.com/acecart/bin/shop.cgi?action=view&itemID=remappedecu_1&cate=010403000
Its all a matter of timing.

[mtlelantra]

The real problem here is our motors cant make power past 5000 rpm anyways..... so I suppose upping the rev limiter is theoretical at best

Just because the dyno graph shows hp and torque dropoffs at whatever rpm doesn't mean you're not still putting any power to the wheels at those rpms.
When you learn optimum shifting points on a manual tranny, you know you don't shift at the rpm where the hp/torque curve starts to drop off. You need to know the gear ratios and then try to ideally torque-match the shift or shift into a higher torque value. A lot of the time the gear ratios don't let you do that and even at redline, the lower gear torque is greater than the next gear torque at the wheels.

[saturn]

you're granny shifting when you should be double clutching it!

[Jonny666]

^^^^ exactly my point!

But yeah, i do understand that. Im just saying that from the shape of most dyno graphs it looks like spinning a beta much higher would not neccicarily lead to any "gains". you would hopefully be able to keep her in the sweet spot a little longer, but its not gonna keep making more power the faster you spin it like a honda would.

[BColeman]

Well, since everyone seems to be taking this thread so seriously, I'll go ahead and repeat what I've said in at least 2 other threads regarding rev limiters. Had the OP used the search feature, and read every single thread that came up, I'm sure at least one of my responses would have been read.

Anyway, our cars can physically handle 7500 rpm in current trim. Getting there is a different story.

First of all, the weakest link in a Beta Motor is the Rod Bearings, not the rods, pistons, wrist pins, crank, top end, etc. It's the Rod Bearings.

Like Bob, I too feel power all the way to 6k, and I do begin to drop off after that, but it depends on gear, and what my CVVT decides to do.

To make use of that extra 1000 RPM, or technically, the 1500 RPM after 6K, you'll need a power adder. Namely Cams, as even boost will drop off after 6K, IN SOME CASES, not all. The cams are what allows a car to rev to a certain level, and that is inhibited by rev limiters in the ECU. So, changing out the ECU to a reprogrammed one from Shark Racing, or where ever, is okay. The fact that timing is changed will help to make more power after 6K, but there's still going to be a drop off of power at about 6800 RPM. The only way to make use of that tuning, extra timing, and extra RPM is to add the $700 set of cams from KSpec, or whereever.

It would be nice to have a higher redline, but given the Hyundai OEM tune, the fact that we are talking about econo-boxes, it isn't going to happen without a little time and a lot of investment of money to get it there.

You want to drive fast, buy a turbo or another car.

[Jonny666]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you so positive that the rod bearigs are the weakest link? with ample oil pressure the bearing material will NEVER have metal to metal contact. that would mean it's either an oil flow problem to the rod bearings or an oil volume problem from the oil pump. perhaps a rod bolt streach issue at high rpm?
and how are you so positive that a beta will handle 7500 rpm?
I'd just like to know where the info is coming from?
Have you personally spun one to 7500?

[BColeman]

Yes, I personally have spun my engine with OEM ECU to 7200 RPM in 3rd gear, very much on accident, and I have no idea how it did that (though I do have a clue), and guess what. The ROD BEARINGS on the #1 and #3 crank journal spun like crap, and journal #1 is marred for life. That's why I have to replace my motor. I have a slightly larger sized OEM rod bearing for that cylinder, as I used some lube and a emry cloth to smooth it out. I'm doing good right now, but after I add boost, a new motor is right around the corner.

As far as proof, I don't have to prove anything. This site has been around for a while, and although some of the proof is in the archives, you do a search on Yahoo! or Google and you can get to them. Your search would include Raised Rev Limiter, KDMGuy, and ECU Swap. There you'll find plenty of information regarding the abuse our blocks can take. While doing that research, also add to it the History of our motors, and find out where they come from, how the design was obtained, the material of the block, etc.

There is NO history regarding the oiling systems on the Beta motor, as it is very effective up to 400 whp. That's been recorded. The weak link has always been the rod bearings. If it weren't, places like Import Shark, Shark Racing, KSpec, they wouldn't sell aftermarket bearings for replacement. Those ones are better quality and last much longer and take more abuse.

You are still new to the site, so I'm once again going to give you a little slack. You don't know me, and I rather you didn't. But I READ everything on this site, and I retain much of the information I read. Always have, it's called photographic memory. That's how I'm a straight A student all the way through college. And I happen to retain the very pertinent information, the information I need for my future endeavors with my car. I tend to remember prices, parts, locations, etc. of what is necessary to take one system or another to the next level.

[Jonny666]

there should be a layer of pressurized oil protecting the bearings at all times.
Check this article out
http://mototuneusa.com/circular_logic.htm
you may have an oil pressure problem to those bearings due to wear etc.
basicly what we have established here is:
if you spin your motor to 7200 rpm you may start to spin rod bearings.... which may or may not be the bearings fault.
It could also be that the aftermarket bearings are a little more oval than the factory bearings which would give more clearance for high rpm.

[BColeman]

Yes, I agree about the aftermarket ones. I do believe that in addition to being a better quality metal, they are a slightly different shape for oiling purposes.

As far as what happened in my case, in addition to already having weakened bearings, I do believe I have an oiling issue. I think I've had the oiling issue for the entire time I've owned the car, even after the supposedly replace the short block at 4K miles. This is another reason to replace the entire motor, to make sure I do not have these problem further.

It's kind of weird too, as I spun mine at a relatively higher RPM than normal, yet KDMGuy can do 400whp on a predominately stock block, all the way to 7500RPM, and not have this issue. But I don't know if he's had this issue or not, as he's never discussed it. Then again, he also has aftermarket rod bearings, so it may not be an issue for him.

The oiling system tends to be somewhat of a mystery to me. I understand pump, sump, baffles. I'm clueless as to where the locations of the runners for the oil are in the block to get to the head, etc. I'm still going through a learning process on this. Amazon.com just shipped me 3 more books I needed, and one of them, though it's not a Hyundai oil system, still instructs on an oil system and how it all works. Hopefully, through that education, I can better formulate some ideas I've had on this systema and a couple of others on the Beta motor.

[CornbreadXD]

jimbo....you ask sooooooo many ?????'s about different things. what makes you want to raise the rev limiter? Then you'll have a whole slew of questions on why your car doesn't run.

[ArunSenior04]

Better to ask questions than to jump in and mess something up.

[WytchDctr]

I love it when people say the beta doesn't make power after 5k rpm... its peak hp is at 6k. :confused:

w/ a few mods
http://www.velocide.com/images_old/12-10-04_dyno_tune_small.JPG

stock auto
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v162/Keyan/EXD05/stockdyno.jpg

yes torque is starting to slide off a little after 5k but compare the HP at 5k and 6.5k. At redline it's still making more horsepower than it was at 5k rpm. I want someone to meet me at the track, shift at 5k in every gear, and Ill throw some money on down (unless they are spraying) saying Ill win that race. I run 1st until just before fuel cut, 2nd i shift a little earlier, and 3rd takes the car across the line.

On the subject of our engines spinning past its redline:

I agree with those that say your not going to see much of a gain buy crossing the stock redline. Even if I think the beta is still making good power at 6.5k rpm with the way the torque curve is dropping it wouldn't take long before the hp curve will follow and it starts making less power than what it can generate around 5-6k. An ecm isn't going to fix that problem and anything that does is going to shift the power band away from where it is now and make it a torqueless wonder (Cams, massive intake manifold, etc)

Another problem with our cars spinning past redline is our stroke. Its not a honda motor. Our pistons pass the 75fps mark at 7200. The 1.8 for example doesn't pass that point until 8500rpm. Once a piston is moving that fast its going to stress everything. Not to mention valvetrain issues with stock parts.


"The size of the loads generated by these motions is proportional to the rpm of the engine squared. For example is the engine speed is increased threefold, the inertial load will be nine times as great. The action of the piston’s being pulled (forced to accelerate) to a stop at top dead center and then pulled down the bore toward the center stroke will put a tensile inertial load into the con rod/piston assembly. " Corky Bell

The amount of load on the engine goes up a hell of alot faster with higher rpms than it does if you where to add more air/fuel. That and when you force air in its an additional compressive load and not a tensile load like with higher rpms, especially on the exhaust stroke.

[BColeman]

^ That makes sense now. Thank you for posting up that information, including the quote.

I feel by the seat of my pants that there is more power there. Just requires some tuning to get there. But it makes sense too that the torque curve would move if tuning was adjusted too much to get to that higher redline.

Now a good question would be: The addition of forced induction, namely turbo charging, Would that keep the torque curve down low, while still giving the opportunity to go to a higher rev limit? And that's based on increasing the rev limiter and adding the parts to make it reach that limit.

[Silentwolf]

I still think better timing would help both curves.

[slow 2K2GT]

After adding boost I noticed that I have a slightly modified torque curve, it starts at about 5psi and goes all the way to 17psi...sorry I contributed nothing here, I cant even provide a dyno sheet yet. Carry on...

[Mobius1]

I've had my car on the "re-mapped" ECU for a little over a year and I push it hard every time I get on the high way. I've had RPMs at 7500 and once when my girl was driving she put it at 8 with no problem (meaning nothing blew up and still runs like new). The stupid thing basically asks for more so I give it more. No problems, just regular oil changes (synthetic) and wash the car is all I do with it. I'm not saying by any means that everyone is wrong. Just stating my results have been flawless thus far. So if you want to up the rev limiter then spend the money and do it, to me it was worth it. It also gets rid of the speed limiter if you wanted to know and yes the car will do 140 or more if you wanna push it. So what you have to ask yourself is, do you feel that going from 6500 to 7500 rpms is worth the 350 bucks?

[WytchDctr]

Id say thats a testament to hyundai building a good engine or your car was built on a Wednesday or Thursday. :D

[BColeman]

^ That's funny :abovelol:

Mobius, I'm glad you chimed in. To be honest, I've never read about anyone having used the remapped ECU. And since you are the first I'm aware of, I have some questions for you.

1) How is the power down low, the same or improved?

2) You say you've taken it to 7500 RPM, what mods do you have done?

3) It was remapped to the mods you have done to your car right?

[WytchDctr]

With just an ecm change it should be the same or better down low. Big cams, huge intake manifolds, etc. That shifts the power. Without them Id love to see how much hp a beta is actually making at 7500.

[Jonny666]

Heya BColeman,
Here's what you need to know about the hyundai oiling system to diagnose your problem.
A) oil comes from the block to the main bearings... from there it goes into the crank and comes out on the rod journals.
Therefore you need a oil pressure gauge on the block preferably where the stock pickup for the stock oil pressure sender unit is. if your pressure is good.... and your main journal that connects to that particular rod is good... but the rod journal is foobared... you have a problem with the internal passage in the crankshaft. probably clogged with something. Or you have too much side clearance on the connecting rod journals causing a localized low pressure.

[rush6432]

spinning rod bearings is usually due to lack of lubrication..... also hammering on it with boost and high revs with this engine and its already long stroke isn't helping anything and does smash down on the top halfs of the bearings pretty harshly over time. Wtchdctr is right, once you pass a certain piston speed your really pretty much at a 50 50 chance weather or not its all going to keep together. Then again people have shown that stock internals here take definatly take a beating. honestly id be intrested in someone taking the stock rods and crank out of a junk block and sending them to a metalurigst and seeing what they're made out of... you never know, some internals are forged from the factory or have a nice hard nitride coating on them to make them stronger. this might give us alot more info and insight into the block and its internals. If i recall i think one hyundai motor had all forged internals stock (accent ?) as for the oiling system, watch the pressure, when it gets hot it usually drops a little bit. After beating on it really hard (with boost or nitrous or just na with hi revs) check the pressure and see where it stands at a hot idle, if its gotten lower over a period of time then you know its time to drop the pan and check the bearings with plastigauge and such and maybe replace. basically an oil pressure gauge will tell you the condition of your rod bearings as THEY are whats creating that pressure pretty much. the larger the clearances in your bearings the lower your oil pressure will be.... An external oil cooler + fan on the cooler with temp probe to activate the fan isn't a bad idea. Cooler oil isn't thinned out from heat and there for you'll have slightly higher pressure

this thread just die??

[FirePenguinz]

It also gets rid of the speed limiter if you wanted to know and yes the car will do 140 or more if you wanna push it. So what you have to ask yourself is, do you feel that going from 6500 to 7500 rpms is worth the 350 bucks?


well put. the faster you get your rpms going, the closer you are getting to driving Ricky Bobbys wonderbread mobile. Just remember that that high pitch whine you may subliminally dreaming of is at 16000 rpm, not 8000.

And the car being about to hit 140 seems like a sure thing! I did 110 a few days ago and the tach was at 3400 RPM!

[only1db]

if the limitor is not there you can make it to 140....

as soon as i get my hands on a tib computer i'm putting it in...should bolt right into place and have no issues....

[Mobius1]

Alright sorry for the late late response. I just got back from the honeymoon. Now mind you I have yet to find a dyno so please keep the "you can't use the butt dyno" crap down.

Low end power is improved. can't say how much but I would say a lot better than stock. The mods I have down are; CAI, NGK plugs and wires, 4-2-1 header coupled with EF cat-back (no cats just muffler and resonator), slave cylinder mod, throttle coolent bypass mod and I use Mobil 1 synthetic. I feel like i'm forgetting something else but i'm sure its not that important since I can't remember it.
I bought the ECU from a guy who had part for part the same thing, only difference is its in my car now and I changed over to the CAI instead of SRI. So to answer your question yes it was tuned to what I had done to the car. Other wise the only thing you are getting for your money is just a tin box that tells your car that redline is 7500 and to pump more fuel to burn. All in all with all the driving I do its fun still and I get 30 mpg almost every where I go.

You know come to think about it I think in my manuel it did say something about the car being build on a thursday or something. Forgot to say that anyone can PM me with whatever questions if you don't feel like surfing this thread or anything if it gets really huge.