Crappy dealership experience

[ricerrx7]

I now remember why I work on my own car. I'm between jobs (have an interview tomorrow), and didn't want to do my oil change on my back, and have to worry about where to dump the oil. But it was over due, and I hate going over on oil changes, so I took my car into the only Hyundai dealership out here. I figured I would be a hypocrite by not following my own advice (i.e. take it to a dealer or trusted shop, not jiffy lube).
Got home after the oil change, and just had this nagging feeling to check my oil level. Turns out they over filled it by about a half quart! Is it really that hard to check the oil level after you fill it up, and fix your mistake? I know I've corrected the level when I've accidentally over filled a customers car, because I care about doing a good job, and them not having to take time out of their day to remedy such a stupid problem. They even asked if my car was canadian to figure out why it only took 3.5 quarts instead of 4. And they kept saying "it's only a little over filled". To which I replied "over full is over full". Anyway that's my rant. Everyone should do their own oil changes from now on (or come out here and have me, a caring technician, do it for you).
Argh.

[evan938]

weak flame. sorry

i always put 4q in both of my XDs and never had a single problem. infact, i beat the **** out of the old one and it still ran strong as an ox

[ricerrx7]

Whether or not it would have caused a problem, it was above the full mark, and that's careless. I take pride in my work no matter what I'm doing, I expect the same, esepcially with something as easy as an oil change.

[BColeman]

I see the problem as a Hyundai Tech was in too much of a hurry and didn't take the time to let the oil drain out completely. While I'm at work, when I do oil changes, I undo the plug, make sure all the oil is going into the barrel, loosen the filter, and walk away. I walk to the back room, look up the filter number, grab it, light a cigarette, and make my way back to the lift. By the time I get there, it's just a dribble. Throw the plug back on, take of the filter, let that drain for a minute or two, put my cigarette out, put new filter on, and voila, time for new oil.

But that's just me. If I was doing my vehicle, I'd let it sit for 10 minutes or more. I don't really like the idea of having too much old oil mixed with the new, so I want as much of it to come out as possible.

Sucks though ricer, cause you then had to take the time you didn't have in the first place to correct their laziness. I feel for you.

[only1db]

we had this arguement before on the old forums...i believe its technically 3.8 when removing the filter...

i personally do four its easier...but again its been discussed...the concensus was 4qts....

[ricerrx7]

Every time I've done my own oil change, it's been 3.5 to fill it to the full line. So, are you leaving customer's oil overfilled?

[hyunelan2]

What's the problem if it is overfilled?


I've never touched the plug on my car. Dealer serviced from the get-go. $6.95 oil changes (everything included: filter, oil, plug) for the life I own the car.

[cclngthr]

My XD was about 3.5-3.6 quarts to fill.

[Keyan]

overfilling the oil can have the crank splash in the oil and airrate (sp) the oil making it dangerous to the motor.

I also put like 4qt in and that's a little bit over the full line. i need to quit wasting oil and put the correct amount in.

[ricerrx7]

What's the problem if it is overfilled?


I've never touched the plug on my car. Dealer serviced from the get-go. $6.95 oil changes (everything included: filter, oil, plug) for the life I own the car.

Like keyan said, aeration of the oil. There's a reason that there's a full mark...

[Keyan]

You know what pisses me off?

When I do an oil change and put enough oil in to have it in the "safe range"

and then 20 mintues later have the customer complain to my service manager that the oil level isnt AT the full mark.

ITS IN THE SAFE ZONE YOU ****ING IDIOT THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR CAR.

Ok now I feel better. :)

[hyunelan2]

Just went out and read that somewhere else, but most things I saw said you'd need to have a quart or more extra before that came into play; unless you have a 4-cyl VW - they are sensative.

[ricerrx7]

I always leave it a little below the full mark for safe measure.

[only1db]

hell we had somebody fill the car twice!! it didnt hurt it...just smoked a little..he saw his falter...and emptied it...

will 4.5 qts hurt...yeah more then likely...but the little amount that you are suggesting...not really.

[ricerrx7]

I never said that the little bit that was overfilled would harm the engine, I'm saying it was careless on behalf of the "tech" (I'm using that term loosely here).

[KeWLKaT]

I agree with ricer here.

only1db I'll remember to not go down to your dealership if I ever move to FL so you won't overfill my oil, rad fluid, and torque my wheels to 347 ft lbs.

[only1db]

we have a machine that puts the proper amount of coolant in without bubbles and i use a torq stick so every lug is a perfect 80lbs....

[yamaha]

I overfilled the tiburon by a quart last oil change, and had the issue of getting oil in the spark plugs where they bolt down into the head, lesson learned.

[NovaResource]

1/2 a quart is not a big deal. Stop whining on 2 different boards.

[ricerrx7]

^Careless work IS a big deal. Don't worry, jesus will forgive me for whining.

[hyunelan2]

I don't see it so much as "careless" as "within an acceptable tolerance range"

[ricerrx7]

The dipstick gives you the "acceptable tolerance range". If the level is above that, then it's not acceptable anymore.
http://www.2pass.co.uk/oil.gif

[06elantra]

i am in agreeance here - full is full - its that level for a reason.

and a hyundai tech / dealership should have the exact specs right in front of him or her when it comes time to put the correct amount back in.

i know that a couple of 'other' dealerships in town here - inc hyundai dealership, will charge out and use the oil to the nearest litre / half litre.

ie, required 4.3L to fill inc oil filter, theyl charge out and use 4.5L coz its a nicer number to put into the computer and have show on the customer invoice.
(i choose 4.3 as my example, as thats the exact amount required when i changed the oil in my ltd to bring it up to the full mark)

also, they probably dont let it run thru to the sump for long enough to be able to get the correct level reading.

[only1db]

hma reads....

3.7 w/out filter

4.2 with filter...

so what happened was whoever did it did not let it drain all the way....then added his 4 qts....

lets not also forget that a 1/4 of a quart over the surface area of the pan is...maybe a 1/16 of an inch in height...you would have to severly overfill to damage anything.

[ricerrx7]

http://www.elantraclub.com/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=888
Check again Derek. I've done several oil changes on my car. 3.5 quarts with filter change. And have you not read any of the posts in this thread? I've stated several times that the problem is not that I thought that it would do harm to my engine, it's that the tech was extremely careless. Regardless of how much oil is supposed to go in there (and it's 3.5 quarts btw), check the dipstick when you're done, and adjust the level if you need to. I've done it.

[cclngthr]

http://www.elantraclub.com/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=888
Check again Derek. I've done several oil changes on my car. 3.5 quarts with filter change. And have you not read any of the posts in this thread? I've stated several times that the problem is not that I thought that it would do harm to my engine, it's that the tech was extremely careless. Regardless of how much oil is supposed to go in there (and it's 3.5 quarts btw), check the dipstick when you're done, and adjust the level if you need to. I've done it.

When I had my XD, I did ALL of the changes and used 3.6 quarts WITH a filter. My HD uses 4.3 quarts with a filter.

I notice that there is a difference in quantity and rather than double checking the year of car and amount, they go with the most recent data. Even though the block is the same, there is about a quart more of oil in the HD vs the XD.

[only1db]

http://www.elantraclub.com/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=888
Check again Derek. I've done several oil changes on my car. 3.5 quarts with filter change. And have you not read any of the posts in this thread? I've stated several times that the problem is not that I thought that it would do harm to my engine, it's that the tech was extremely careless. Regardless of how much oil is supposed to go in there (and it's 3.5 quarts btw), check the dipstick when you're done, and adjust the level if you need to. I've done it.

perhaps you have a defective dipstick :rolleyes:

hopefully this works...straight out of hma...:bowdown:

SERVICE MANUAL
Applies to: Elantra 2001-2003
GROUP
Engine Mechanical System Lubrication System



CHANGING ENGINE OIL
CAUTION
Be careful not to burn yourself, as the engine oil is hot.

Run the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature.
Turn off the engine.
Remove the oil filler cap and the drain plug (on the oil pan). Drain the engine oil.
Install and tighten the drain plug to the specified torque.
Tightening torque


Drain plug : 35-45 N.m (350-450 kg.cm, 25-33 lb.ft)


Fill the crankcase with fresh engine oil through the oil filler cap opening.
Capacity


Drain and refill

Without oil filter : 3.7 liter (3.91 U.S.qts., 3.25 lmp.qts.)

With oil filter : 4.0 liter (4.23 U.S.qts., 3.51 lmp.qts.)


CAUTION
Do not overfill the crankcase. This will cause oil aeration and loss of oil pressure.

Install the oil filler cap.
Start and run the engine.
Turn off the engine and then check the oil level. Add oil if necessary.

[ArunSenior04]

Nice. Its pretty much 4 quarts either way.

[ricerrx7]

perhaps you have a defective dipstick :rolleyes:

hopefully this works...straight out of hma...:bowdown:

--------------------------------------------------------

CAUTION
Do not overfill the crankcase. This will cause oil aeration and loss of oil pressure.


Did you even check the link I provided? IT'S A TSB CORRECTING THE INFO YOU PROVIDED!

And did you not see the part you copied saying "Do not overfill the crankcase."?

[moonlite5hadow]

Did you even check the link I provided? IT'S A TSB CORRECTING THE INFO YOU PROVIDED!

And did you not see the part you copied saying "Do not overfill the crankcase."?


someone just got :owned1:
gotta love those TSB's!

my auto tech instructor strongly advocates careful work (i.e. proper amount of oil) as opposed to ease of work (i.e. filling to the nearest whole qt.)

[only1db]

either way....and if you do not have the corrected (longer bolt) its still 4qts...

just because there is a TSB does not mean that its a recall...and everybody has to have it done....which means that if you did not specifically go back to the dealership for this you dont have it....and the amount would be the same...

i am aware of stripping oil pans...i have done one or two myself...

[cclngthr]

either way....and if you do not have the corrected (longer bolt) its still 4qts...

just because there is a TSB does not mean that its a recall...and everybody has to have it done....which means that if you did not specifically go back to the dealership for this you dont have it....and the amount would be the same...

i am aware of stripping oil pans...i have done one or two myself...

TSB says it is a correction of the manual. 3.5 quarts rather than 4.2 quarts.

I've had bone dry, fresh Beta 2 rebuilds and used 3.5 quarts. They were full with that abount..

How can you determine whether the engine must have 4 quarts in it?

[ricerrx7]

either way....and if you do not have the corrected (longer bolt) its still 4qts...

just because there is a TSB does not mean that its a recall...and everybody has to have it done....which means that if you did not specifically go back to the dealership for this you dont have it....and the amount would be the same...

i am aware of stripping oil pans...i have done one or two myself...

You do NOT need to be working on people's cars. The TSB had multiple parts. Do you really think that adding 5mm of drain plug is going to decrease the oil capacity over half of a quart? You've got to be kidding me! And if you really want to get specific, my build date was 07/07/01, putting in the middle column of the table, meaning that I already had the 17mm drain plug.
And where the **** did I say that a TSB was a recall, or even mention the drain plug? You have a lot to learn dude.

[cclngthr]

You do NOT need to be working on people's cars. The TSB had multiple parts. Do you really think that adding 5mm of drain plug is going to decrease the oil capacity over half of a quart? You've got to be kidding me! And if you really want to get specific, my build date was 07/07/01, putting in the middle column of the table, meaning that I already had the 17mm drain plug.
And where the **** did I say that a TSB was a recall, or even mention the drain plug? You have a lot to learn dude.

The only way to decrease oil capacity that much is a different oil pan and/or oil filter that is smaller.

On a STOCK filter, it is 3.5-3.6 quarts. We know to use those right??

[evan938]

just to make it clear, my cock is bigger than every one elses here

you guys are all dumb to be arguing over something so minor. ricer- if you want 3.5q in your car, do your own f'in oil change. if derek wants to fill his **** up until he cant fit anymore down the valve cover, let him do it. obviously both cars are still running, so it obviously didnt make THAT much of a difference.

[ricerrx7]

OMG! Evan being a dick? What has this world come to? You've always been so nice and sweet in the past...:rolleyes:

[05xd]

This thread is still goin on? woosah.........woosah

[only1db]

just to make it clear, my cock is bigger than every one elses here

you guys are all dumb to be arguing over something so minor. ricer- if you want 3.5q in your car, do your own f'in oil change. if derek wants to fill his **** up until he cant fit anymore down the valve cover, let him do it. obviously both cars are still running, so it obviously didnt make THAT much of a difference.

nuff said....

i'm done arguing...i will put my info out there and back it up with official data....you can do what you want.

[evan938]

nuff said....

i'm done arguing...


you should have stopped right here if you really wanted to end it

[ricerrx7]

nuff said....

i'm done arguing...i will put my info out there and back it up with official data....you can do what you want.

So the TSB I provided wasn't the official data? What you provided is outdated. I feel bad for your customers.

[Silentwolf]

This thread is still goin on? woosah.........woosah

:abovelol:
"Dam the woosah captain!" :D

[bdiggy]

Silly argument, maybe, but it goes right along w/ the crappy dealership experience perfectly. And people wonder why I say I can't wait to be done w/ the dealership for good. They're certified morons! Every last one of them!

[Silentwolf]

Not all are. Cocoa dealership i deal with are cooperative and somewhat knowledgable.

[bdiggy]

I have yet to hear of compitant Hyundai tech's anywhere in CT and there are 6 within 20 miles of me.

[only1db]

^ sucks to be you...

[Nyck]

oh boy...3.5 quarts? i think i used 4.5 last night...i better check that before i leave work today....There's no way i could of put that much in there....but now i can't remember...

[only1db]

did my wifes oil change last night....the oil was drianed completely....and it was at full on the top part of full with 4 qts...and she has the updated drain plug...

[ricerrx7]

Dude, do you really think that the volume that 5mm of drainplug takes up is equivelant to 1/2 quart? And what year is your wife's elantra? Did you not read the freaking bulletin? Remember, the class was called "reading AND comprehension". You've got the reading down, now we just have to work on the comprehension.

[05xd]

Silly argument, maybe, but it goes right along w/ the crappy dealership experience perfectly. And people wonder why I say I can't wait to be done w/ the dealership for good. They're certified morons! Every last one of them!

Way to be a complete a$$hole there buddy.It's customers like you that make me hate dealing with people

[only1db]

^ i agree...i treat people how they treat me....

ricer...please dont insult my intelligence...

i am well aware...i'm just offering my .02...dont like it?? tuff ****!!!

[jalmir]

only1db you are really anoying here ... ricer said his car is full with 3.5qt, every bit of "official data" WILL NOT change real life facts, and that is : ricer's XD needs 3.5qt AND the tech didn't checked the oil level.

So the tech was careless, ricer is not trying to say his engine would've blown or something ... man I have to agree with ricer, you sure read but doesn't look like you understand what he's saying!

[ricerrx7]

ricer...please dont insult my intelligence...

I can only believe about you what you lead me to believe. If I show you official data in the form of a TSB, which corrects the "official data" that you provided earlier, then claim that 5mm worth of drain plug would cause a 1/2 quart difference even when the TSB states that my car originally came with the updated drain plug, then contradict yourself by saying that another car with the updated drain plug took 4 quarts, then stated that I had a defective dipstick (nice attempt at sarcasm by the way), then what am I supposed to believe about your intelligence? The only thing this thread leads me to believe is that you're ****ing up paying customers cars, and that you're a careless lube tech.

[hyundaitech56]

only1db's wife has an 04 xd
Here is an excerpt from the Korean Global Service Way web site.
Refill with engine oil filter.
A. Clean and install the oil drain plug with a new gasket.
Torque :40 ~ 45Nm (400 ~ 450kgf.cm, 30 ~ 33lbf.ft)
B. Fill with fresh engine oil
CapacityDrain and refill :W/Oil filter change : 3.85l (4.1U.S.qts, 3.4lmp qts)W/O Oil filter change : 3.55l (3.75U.S.qts, 3.1lmp qts)
I have done plenty of those pans from careless quick lube shops overtightening and found that 3.5qts was not enough to fill to the full mark.
I believe the orignal thread post just had a (careless/in a hurry) lube tech.

[bdiggy]

Way to be a complete a$$hole there buddy.It's customers like you that make me hate dealing with people

That had nothing to do with you. I was reffering specifically to the Hartford CT Hyundai dealership. Now, unless you personally can tell me they have some guys there that care about what they do and take pride in serviceing my ride, you can shove that statement^^. I've had crappy service there time and time again! And for the record, i've never been a disrespectful customer. I've never even said anything to them. I sit in that crappy little waiting room for an hour and a half for a freaking oil change. It's complete BS.

EDIT:Actually, I partially take that statement back. The service manager there is good to me and even remembers my name. To bad he doesn't work on the cars.

[05xd]

^^^totally misunderstood your statement and I apoligize for that

[BobMs_wht2k2]

hma reads....

3.7 w/out filter

4.2 with filter...



Without oil filter : 3.7 liter (3.91 U.S.qts., 3.25 lmp.qts.)

With oil filter : 4.0 liter (4.23 U.S.qts., 3.51 lmp.qts.)



did my wifes oil change last night....the oil was drianed completely....and it was at full on the top part of full with 4 qts...and she has the updated drain plug...



Ok Derek, which is it? Because you're masterful buddy gave a different number than the 3 you posted:

only1db's wife has an 04 xd
Here is an excerpt from the Korean Global Service Way web site.
Refill with engine oil filter.
A. Clean and install the oil drain plug with a new gasket.
Torque :40 ~ 45Nm (400 ~ 450kgf.cm, 30 ~ 33lbf.ft)
B. Fill with fresh engine oil
CapacityDrain and refill :W/Oil filter change : 3.85l (4.1U.S.qts, 3.4lmp qts)W/O Oil filter change : 3.55l (3.75U.S.qts, 3.1lmp qts)
I have done plenty of those pans from careless quick lube shops overtightening and found that 3.5qts was not enough to fill to the full mark.
I believe the orignal thread post just had a (careless/in a hurry) lube tech.

I hate to say this, but Evan's right:
you should have stopped right here if you really wanted to end it

[hyundaitech56]

hma reads 4.0 with filter. hmc reads 4.1 with filter. .1 qt isn't going to make a difference. 3.5 would show in the lower end of the safe zone. In any event, it wont be overfilled.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I've been using 4 in both my 02 and my "other wife" 01 GLS. Both read top mark full. But this is one of those debatable deals where different people have different experiences.

[KeWLKaT]

How about this.

I fill it up until it reaches the top notch.

That's it.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Or you could fill up to the rim with Brim. . .

[jalmir]

How about this.

I fill it up until it reaches the top notch.

That's it.

don't you get it ... you HAVE to pour 4qt in there ... no matter what your dip stick say!!!! :hammer:

/sarcasm ... :)

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Huh. . . I sense tension in the air and it's involving the SAME person it USUALLY involves. . . huh. . . . we may be on to something here! :abovelol:

I think this is one of those topics that's been debated since the XD was introduced in 01. I definately remember heated debates on the old forum. IIRC we came to the same conclusion then we have here. . . 3.5-4qts, opinions may vary.

[ricerrx7]

hma reads 4.0 with filter. hmc reads 4.1 with filter. .1 qt isn't going to make a difference. 3.5 would show in the lower end of the safe zone. In any event, it wont be overfilled.

That's great that they don't update the main info. Check the bulletins.

[hyundaitech56]

I check for bulletins every morning when I get to work. I think I would abide by the new service manual info rather than a bulletin that came out in October of 2002. When it really comes down to it, I fill with ~3.5 qts, start the engine, shut if off and check, then adjust as needed.
Personally, I think the lube monkey that changed your oil was distracted or in a hurry. Have the service manager make a note in the computer to have the lube tech be more accurate. We have several customers with special notes that automatically print on the repair order when they come in. ie set tire pressure to 30 PSI or Use Synthetic Only or my personal favorite Tech 56 Only!!

[ricerrx7]

You shouldn't have to make a note of "don't overfill the customers engine".

[hyundaitech56]

I agree.

[only1db]

You shouldn't have to make a note of "don't overfill the customers engine".

if you only knew...

[BobMs_wht2k2]

With you turning wrenches, I believe we do :rolleyes:

:abovelol: You should see the soon to be ex-employee we have now. Cannot do squat. But thinks they are God's gift to the automotive world. What's worse, they know absolutely NOTHING about how a car works or the simplest diagnosis procedures. They are a "Do this, do that" person.

[only1db]

believe what you want....

i know what i can do and thats all i need to know...i have had very few come backs...

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I wish we could say the same about this "person". . . I tried to tell them that the ball joints they destroyed were part of the knuckles and the bearings had to be pressed in/out. Didn't listen. Knuckles came in and they were dumbfounded about how to install them. Ended up busting a bearing on one and a hub on the other. . . . If they didn't run thir mouth CONSTANTLY and listened to a few things here and there they might make it. But they don't, so they won't.

They won't be the first hack come and go, and I'm sure they won't be the last.

Some days I am SO glad I don't work the other side of this wall. Between all the Service Advisors, service maagers, techs and porters I've seen come and go in the last 6 years, it's amazing anyone STAYS in this business. I may not make the most money in the building, but it's the most consistant and it's by far not bad money.

[ricerrx7]

if you only knew...

How long have you been working in dealerships?

[BobMs_wht2k2]

A year? 18 months maybe? He's still learning. . . and he's got a lot to learn. Give him time I guess. While his demeanor and at times know-it-all attitude are EXTREMELY annoying, we were probably in the same boat at that time in our lives too. . . sad to say it. I just wished someone had kickedme in the nads a few times before I opened my trap back then. Maybe I woulda learned more.

[only1db]

i have been in this dealership for 2 months....i'm sorry if i come across a know it all...but when i'm right i know it and i stick to my guns...

annoying is YOU constantly ripping other people apart...

[Munky]

...i'm sorry if i come across a know it all.

Don't lie..you aren't the least bit sorry. If you were, you wouldn't be acting like the prick you are.

[hyundaitech56]

Found something odd. Here is a section of the 2006 XD 2.0 service manual on the Korean web site that has yet another set of numbers. I checked the same section in the manuals all the way back to 2001 XD 2.0 with exactly the same capacities. See screenshot.

[only1db]

screen shots and evidence doesnt seem to matter...

look at the chassis thread...

[hyundaitech56]

I was just showing how inconsistant the printed documentation is. Bottom line is, the lube tech should have checked the level before he/she released the car back to the customer.

[ricerrx7]

I was just showing how inconsistant the printed documentation is. Bottom line is, the lube tech should have checked the level before he/she released the car back to the customer.

Thank you. I'm glad we have another intelligent tech on the boards.
And Only1db, I only rip people apart if they need to be ripped apart.

[yamaha]

So, lesson of the day. People aren't perfect and make mistakes.

[only1db]

^ thats an understatement.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Found something odd. Here is a section of the 2006 XD 2.0 service manual on the Korean web site that has yet another set of numbers. I checked the same section in the manuals all the way back to 2001 XD 2.0 with exactly the same capacities. See screenshot.

Since you've been around awhile, you'll remember the "old" parts/service system. I cannotfor the life of me remember what we called it, but finding the correct parts was a crapshoot, especially body orders. You needed VIN, pro-date and a list of options/accessories and a crystal ball.

It almost seemed like HMA didn't even know what they had installed on the cars, especially pre-99. Such a headache!

[hyundaitech56]

I remember the microfiche system with the projector. That was a real pain to look up parts.