Traction tips

[chillbro1]

Okay...

I have run 3 events...

Due to my mods I am in STS and I am getting my arse handed to me.

The one thing I notice after 3 events is that the level of grip I get is terrible.

In the last 3 events I have been about 3 seconds off the mid pack STS cars.

So what I am wondering is, what is everyone else doing to get more grip in AutoX. Has anyone changed camber settings, what tires are you running, what pressures....

Heck...any tips are greatly appreciated!


Peace,

[Cypher]

how bout some info about your setup for proper help?

[cclngthr]

What mods do you have?

[BColeman]

Check out some of Bob's threads regarding what he does in Autocross. He's got some good, very valuable information that you could use.

[chillbro1]

I am running 205-40-17 Yokohama AVS ES100 tires (which I think are part of the problem)

My wheels are fairly heavy (Konig Imagine)

I have the Eibach Pro Kit lowering springs installed

I have the Tib 19.2mm sway bar installed.

I have camber bolts on all 4 corners...

I am thinking about dialing about 2 degrees negative camber into the front...to try to get the front to bite more.

Of course...the trunk is totally gutted, and I try to run with one-quarter of a tank of gas at events to keep the weight bias towards the front...

Anyhow...sorry about the lack of info in the first post...

[BColeman]

Suggestion, the wheels. There's problem number one. Those are Dress wheels, not racing wheels. They are a beautiful wheel though, just throwin' that in there.

Also, camber bolts break, so be careful. Have you seen the Ingalls rear lower control arms on the Ultrarev.com web site. You'll need 4 of them, totaling about $250 or so, but you'll get toe and camber adjustment out of it, lighter weight, and strength in the rear. Just a thought. (also the direction I'm heading someday soon)

And your tires sir, that is the last problem, which you've already stated. They are a "dressy" tire too, not really that sticky for auto crossing.

But again, talk to Bob, and some of the others. I'm not that well versed in AutoCross, but I do know products and some of the things it takes to be competitive. I just don't know what level of mods you can do and in what classes.

[cclngthr]

I am running 205-40-17 Yokohama AVS ES100 tires (which I think are part of the problem)

My wheels are fairly heavy (Konig Imagine)

I have the Eibach Pro Kit lowering springs installed

I have the Tib 19.2mm sway bar installed.

I have camber bolts on all 4 corners...

I am thinking about dialing about 2 degrees negative camber into the front...to try to get the front to bite more.

Of course...the trunk is totally gutted, and I try to run with one-quarter of a tank of gas at events to keep the weight bias towards the front...

Anyhow...sorry about the lack of info in the first post...

A lot of autocrossers use a smaller diameter wheel/tire combination and tweaking the air pressures to gain better times and traction. I only tried it once, but when I did it, my XD was pretty much bone stock including tires. I recommend using a stock sized alloy (light weight) with an Azenis or comparable tire. A 17 inch rim is a bit much I think.

I advise against 2 degrees negative camber because that is a bit much (creates an unstable condition). I personally would not mess with that any, but with a stock sized tire, I would play with the tire pressure between 35-45 psi in the front and 32 in the rear. I had better results when the front tires were set at a higher pressure than the rear.

[chillbro1]

Suggestion, the wheels. There's problem number one. Those are Dress wheels, not racing wheels. They are a beautiful wheel though, just throwin' that in there.

Also, camber bolts break, so be careful. Have you seen the Ingalls rear lower control arms on the Ultrarev.com web site. You'll need 4 of them, totaling about $250 or so, but you'll get toe and camber adjustment out of it, lighter weight, and strength in the rear. Just a thought. (also the direction I'm heading someday soon)

And your tires sir, that is the last problem, which you've already stated. They are a "dressy" tire too, not really that sticky for auto crossing.

But again, talk to Bob, and some of the others. I'm not that well versed in AutoCross, but I do know products and some of the things it takes to be competitive. I just don't know what level of mods you can do and in what classes.


I appreciate any input...

I think your are right about the wheels for sure...

The tires...err uhh...yeah...I know...but when I bought them they were good deal...and they sold me a bunch of wolf tickets on performance. At the last event...I couldn't even get them to heat up...

Anyhow...thanks for your input...and I gladly appreciate any others...

Peace,

[jrod13]

Ok I run STS in my Elantra and am in mid pack, and last event was only 2 seconds off the leader who had a 44 second time. I messed up bad and still came out with a 46 with no cones. So I am fairly confident my setup is in contention for first.

First get rid of those tires. Try running the Falken Azenis RT-615. They are summer only, and after a while are sketchy in the rain. However if you want to be competitive in STS that is what you will need. I run 40 pounds front and rear in my car. I have a 22mm adjustable sway bar that is set to the stiffest setting in the rear.

I also have camber bolts at all 4 corners. I have a-2.08 in the front and -1.90 in the rear.

I have the Koni yellow single adjustable inserts for the Tiburon in my car with Tiburon lowering springs. This allows me to play with the rebound valving.

Can you describe for us more what the car is doing. ie pushing, oversteering, or are the tires just getting greasy and not gripping at all after a while?

[chillbro1]

A combination of two things are really frustrating me...

Car understeers quite a bit, making it hard to setup for slaloms after a bit of a sweeper and decreasing radius turns. Even with a bit of left foot braking to try to get weight over the front wheels...the car still pushes like a S.O.B.,

I am happy with the amount that the rear slides around when I get it to...nothing real drastic happens which is good in my book.

And the tires feel real greasy and they don't grip well after the 2nd to 3rd run.

I really think it is a combination of tires, camber settings and tire pressures...

I think I might give your camber settings a try Jrod...and see how that works for my season ender in a couple weeks.

And then over the winter...time to get some new tires for sure...

(Anybody know anything about these new Bridgestones...they are all the rage here...but I really haven't read too much about them...)

Thanks for the input!

Peace,

[jrod13]

I know everyone in Minnesota runs the Falkens. Those are what I know work, and what I suggest. I haven't heard anything about the new Bridgestones.

You might really want to try a rear sway bar before you go crazy with an alignment. My alignment chews through tires at a decent pace, but I live with it because of the benefit I get out of it.

try running more pressure in the rear then the front. Don't go more then a 3 psi difference though I wouldn't think. Making more pressure in the back will make the backend a little bit more loose. Which sounds like your goal at the moment. It'll make you have to pay a bit more attention, but it is definitely containable.

I guess the next thing I could use to give you advice is to get your mod list.

One more thing. To maybe help combat the greasy tire issue is to bring a spray bottle with water in it to cool the tires down between runs. Also you might want to check pressure between runs. When the tires get hot they build air pressure. Which will make them slide more.