UH OH.

I thought this up today... I wonder how hard it would be to modify the cowl area on the driver side into a cowl induction setup that feeds air directly into the lower part of the stock airbox ?

hmm... I figure all you really have to do is cut a hole into the upper part of the firewall and then fabricate some kind of duct to feed air into the stock airbox ... the stock airbox will have to be modified to accept the air from the new duct but that is really easy to do.. just cut a hole in it on the back side and cover up the original intake hole..

what does everyone think of this idea ? and better yet, who is willing to try it first ?


_____________
UPDATE: Just wanted to add the concept picture here....

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/cowl_induction_1_fordfasterr.JPG

Ford.... i think you just volunteered

Just curious...which is better? Cowl Induction or RAM Air?

Axel

I did this on my car. It helped lower air temps.

I did this on my car. It helped lower air temps.

you did ? why didnt you tell us earlier? Can we have some detailed pictures please ?

He owns a Focus (I'm 99% sure) and he just joined the site, that might be why he hasn't told us yet.

But, we'll want pics anyway.

But Ford, why not just use a CAI?

why not just use a CAI?


your from NoVA. try living down in the hampton roads area. it floods here every other day. i would love to have a CAI but i live in a flood zone and its not worth the risk to me

The cowl setup is really only going to be a benifit when the speeds are sufficient to create an area of high pressure at the bottom of the windshield or cowl and make for an area of cool air that is easier to route to a intake manifold that uses a filter on top of the engine as opposed to the piping required to come from the front of the car. Going from the cowl to the stock airbox and then into the engine will not yeild much. The stock filter location just isnt setup to take advantage of that system.

No, but IT IS a cool idea.......

The cowl setup is really only going to be a benifit when the speeds are sufficient to create an area of high pressure at the bottom of the windshield or cowl and make for an area of cool air ....


untrue, this is still a cold air intake. event at low speeds when the vacuum is not high, it will provide cold air ... also, as an added benefit, once you bring up your speed a little bit, you get all that extra pressure to help feed the engine.

I have some ideas about how to proceed with this mod, and it seems like it might be worth a try.

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/cowl_induction_1_fordfasterr.JPG

Instead of cowl why not fab something right above the intake box. Similiar to how the WRXs/Cooper S have the Duct right above their intercoolers. Then figure out how to get a proper seal when the hood is closed. You could probably also put a cone filter in there as well

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/Ram_induction_2_evil247.jpg

well, that wouldnt be cowl induction anymore dude... it would be ram air.

Instead of cowl why not fab something right above the intake box.

You don't say??

Ford, have you seen the factory air intake system from a 99 Neon? It attaches to the firewall. I was wondering if you could modify that.....

i'm not familiar with it.. can you locate some pics and post them on here ?

Ill see what I can do. I used to have a Neon repair manual, but I think I threw it out when I traded the car, but ill look....

Unless you seal the intake up near the cowl from the air inside the engine compartment, it will be warm air until you get up to speed. And with all the complex bends your design has, it wont be worth it with the stock air box. An air filter actually placed where you have the red boxy thing going straight into the manifold would work better.

That looks really tight. I'm not sure you have enough room to work with. What size tubing would fit? Also, you would have to tap the bottom of the airbox correct?
Here's my Focus set up. The tube running from the cowl is attached to the intake box resonator, which flows through to the bottom of the intake box.
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/6/web/282000-282999/282212_34_full.jpg

I have a newer set up that removes the resonator, using a cone filter with a cold air attachment to run the hose out of the airbox top to the cowl. I will be using 2" piping, since that's about a big as will fit.

So basically what a cowl induction is, is that the air is provided by that *cowl* by the windshield instead of say the wheel well? I think that would be kinda cool if you add like some kinda little scoop that *catches* the air and forces it down. I don't know if that will mess with the wipers or what not and .. prolly will create lots of wind resistance *i don't know*

Threw the Neon book out Ford...sorry

that red engine bay pic up there shows what i'm talking about.

but on the elantra, the wiper motor is in the spot where the hose comes from, that is why my original concept image has the various bends in it to locate the funnel slightly more to the center of the cowl area..


and in respose to the idea of the scoop.. there is no need for a scoop in the cowl area, the pressure that forms there automatically FORCES air downward without the need of a scoop.

have you wondered why the air vents push air into the car when you set it to fresh air with the a/c off ? it pushs more air as you go faster, and the blower motor is not even on.

:)

you'd be tapping right into the fresh air intake for the HVAC system. might not affect heat or a/c (if you run it on recirculate) much.
technically it's not cowl induction, which isn't to say it won't work. i've seen a number of turbocharged V8 drag cars draw fresh air from this location (either drive or passenger side), but they don't have HVAC or run in the rain.
you'd still be limiting yourself, in an absolute sense, to the stock airbox.

ok, here's my question . . . what about rain???

the cowl area has a drainage system built into it. that is how the system prevents water from coming out of your vents when you use the vent system which draws its air directly from the cowl area.

also, when you cut the opening on the firewall for the duct, be sure to cut the hole at least 1/4 inch above the lowest level of the inner colw area... that way, any water that accumulates will not automatically drain into your airbox.

also, the stock airbox has 1 small drainage hole built into it from the factory which will allow any small amounts of water to drain out without getting sucked up into the motor.. also, you would have to fill the entire airbix all the way past the filter level to actually get any water to go into the intake...

:)

Hey Ford, why don't you do it and tell us how it works! ;)

I already explained why I dont want to do this mod at this time.


:) but thanks for asking.

:confused: I just looked through twice and I didn't the reason why you don't want to?

ok well what about this . . i want to move the CAI to the front of the engine bay by the grill seeing as how i think this would be the best placee for it to get cold air in the bay . . . what about rain though? im worried about it even thoughit would have to take like a massive rainstorm blowing water into the grill to cause a problem but i just want to be sure
although, what if i had a scoop thingy like the wrx lets say and put the filter up there . . what do these guys do when it rains? im sure there's some kind of system that protects it but i cant fathom it . . ford? any ideas? anyone else? it boggles my mind . . help

what if i had a scoop thingy like the wrx lets say and put the filter up there . . what do these guys do when it rains? im sure there's some kind of system that protects it but i cant fathom it . . ford? any ideas? anyone else? it boggles my mind . . help


Actually the WRX air filter is in the passenger fender well. The hood scoop is only to draw cool air across the intercooler.

--NY

looking through old threads.........the wrx sti filter is actually right below the hood scoop. i was also wondering if there were any more developmental ideas for this idea?

i have agreat idea, maybe not, what i would do is use the plastic arm on the stock intake(or some of your own piping for 01-02 xd's) that comes off the tb and detach it from the rest of the intake assembly, chuck the rest of the assembly, and modify/turn the pipe upwards at an angle and have it come out of a hole you made in your hood, lol, and then put one of those cone style filters on it with the hole in the middle(if you want to), and on pretty summer days when its dry and hardly any bugs out get that sucker up to about 70, and you will have yourself a "naturally boosted engine"
http://x11.putfile.com/12/34403455531-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=12/34403455531.jpg&s=x11)
http://x11.putfile.com/12/34403451018-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=12/34403451018.jpg&s=x11)
i would be willing to give it a try on another car but not mine, i am actually seriouse about this one, if you could buy a scoop and use it to your advantage then this could be really cool

haha, that is an excellent picture...! I think that I'll just stick with my CAI though. Thanks.

yea,thats like all of the body dropped s10's out there got a sri sticking up out of the hood with no cover on it.Imagine if you are out driving and it starts to rain

rain and snow would scare me too much for a pipe to be sticking out of my hood :eek:

Brad

I'm a big physics nerd. I dont think you would have a whole lot of wind resistance because it would be an open scoop. As long as the scoop is relatively small to moderate size. If you put one on that is huge, yes there would be more air flow but with more surface area contact comes more resistance, especially at higher speeds.

looking through old threads.........the wrx sti filter is actually right below the hood scoop. i was also wondering if there were any more developmental ideas for this idea?
Are you saying that the hood scoop feeds the intake on a WRX? Have you actually seen under the hood of one?
I have, and NorthernYankee is right- the scoop is for the intercooler. It's not a ram air scoop or anything... it's a turbo- doesn't need it.

you guys have seen the video with the leaf blower on the dyno right? i wonder if you got an air compressor and shot some compressed air into the intake if it would add some extra horses?

Threw the Neon book out Ford...sorry

Ford

Dont worry about it, i had a 98 neon and the factory intake system was probably the worst configuration ever! The intake scoop ran over the engine to the air filter box located in the rear engine bay (near the firewall). However, the air filter box was located above the exhaust manifold!!! Not only is the engine heating the air with having the scoop, but the exhaust manifold as well.

Gregster

i have agreat idea, maybe not, what i would do is use the plastic arm on the stock intake(or some of your own piping for 01-02 xd's) that comes off the tb and detach it from the rest of the intake assembly, chuck the rest of the assembly, and modify/turn the pipe upwards at an angle and have it come out of a hole you made in your hood, lol, and then put one of those cone style filters on it with the hole in the middle(if you want to), and on pretty summer days when its dry and hardly any bugs out get that sucker up to about 70, and you will have yourself a "naturally boosted engine"
It's called ram air, but you don't get much from it, really. There was that body modded civic that was posted on ebay about 4-6 months ago (?) that had the filter sticking out of the hood. It was fugly as sin.

Get a short ram intake and run with no hood....

This seems complicated with no real benefits. Why not get some kind of woorking hoodscoop some spacers for the hood and then get a short ram that way your coolong the underhood temps and your getting more air into the engine.

Also, there is no such thing as "Ram air" its a marketing gimik. No car will go so fast that it will cause air to "ram" into the engine.

Also, there is no such thing as "Ram air" its a marketing gimik. No car will go so fast that it will cause air to "ram" into the engine.
unless you have no filter and a trumpet designed to funnel air into your intake...lol

Also, there is no such thing as "Ram air" its a marketing gimik. No car will go so fast that it will cause air to "ram" into the engine.

Actually, it does help to pressurize the air box, creating denser air for the engine to feed on which, in turn, creates a slight gain in power. Why do you think EVERY SINGLE supersport motorcycle in the past 10 years has used some sort of ram air induction? Sportbikes are all about getting the most power from the lightest package. If it didn't help, they'd leave it off to save weight.

Actually, it does help to pressurize the air box, creating denser air for the engine to feed on which, in turn, creates a slight gain in power. Why do you think EVERY SINGLE supersport motorcycle in the past 10 years has used some sort of ram air induction? Sportbikes are all about getting the most power from the lightest package. If it didn't help, they'd leave it off to save weight.

I dont really know much about the small 2 stroke engines, but the way our cars get air into the intake is when exhaust air is forced out the cylinder in the exhaust stroke and then sucked in when the piston is in its intake stroke. It doesnt matter how fast your going your never going to be able to force that much air through the intake that it will actualy compress when the piston is in its downward stroke.

Notice I didn't say anything about pressurizing the cylinders, just the large volume airbox. This creates a DENSER charge of fresh air for the engine to pull into the cylinders, and as we all know, denser air creates more power - hence the popularity of the CAI, because colder air is denser. I think this mod has some potential. Give it a try and let us know how it turns out, Ford. I'm looking forward to seeing if it would give any appreciable gains.

my friend has a subaru wrx sti and yes if you look down the hood scoop you will see an air filter. that is stock.

my friend has a subaru wrx sti and yes if you look down the hood scoop you will see an air filter. that is stock.

Are you saying you see an exposed filter element that's exposed to dirt, rain, snow, bugs and other crap?
No offense, but you're confused about what you're looking at. I've been under the hood of a 2004 and a 2005 model, and what you see is the "grill" of the intercooler.
Hell, here's a picture... That silver box top center with the STI symbol on it that's "fed" by the scoop, yeah, that's the intercooler. The black box in the lower left corner, that's the stock filterbox. *sigh*
You can see the wide air intake "scoop" just to the right at the bottom.

you may be right but when i looked down i am pretty sure i saw a k&n filter right there.