Gauging Interest in making turbo manifolds...

[Mahonroy]

Hello, I had been wanting to build turbo exhaust manifolds for a while and had a couple questions... First off about the manifolds, I'm going to make them out of thick gauge steel, and they are going to be a style similar to this:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODQ0MTEzNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
Main thing I'm going for here is an inexpensive reliable solution for people who want to turbo there cars, as I'm going to sell them cheaper than other manifolds that are on the market.

1. Would people be interested in something like this being available?

2. I need ideas for what kind of a turbo will be compatable with the manifold. I want a turbo that is geared for more power than most peoples (get to around 300whp at moderate boost levels (like around 16psi), but also have the expandability of exceeding those horsepower ratings if people upgrade there engine and fuel system down the road.

The main drawback is that the elantra engine bay doesn't have much room. So option one is the largest turbo that will fit in the engine bay without having to remove the fans. And option two would be the largest turbo that will fit with the fans removed. I know for example a gt2871R turbo will fit in the engine compartment barely with the fans removed.

If I can get some of these going the next thing I want to do is produce some water/air intercooler kits that can go along with this style of a turbo setup. Nice thing about that is they work well, and it should bolt right in with little modification, rather than most FMIC kits you have to modify quite a bit to get them to fit.

So anyways yeah let me know what you guys think.

[Silentwolf]

What about for the more common T25?
If your going for a introductory price then start with the initial turbos.

But thanks for posting, now i remember who makes the IC piping kits :tongue:

[Mahonroy]

I really don't want to stay geared towards the smaller turbos, though I meen a lot of turbos do use the T25 flange (I think mitsubishi TD04 turbos, and GT28 turbos both use that flange).
I personally think that the larger turbos with more turbo lag are more fun to drive. Lots of factory turboed cars are fitted with a turbo thats too small in my opinion, and alot of those turbos such as the 15t, 13g, 16g, etc. fall into that ballpark.
Since these are strong engines, even with a decompression plate, I would rather have these turbo exhaust manifolds fit larger air flowing turbos. Also, turbos that flow a lot aren't really that much more expensive, if you stay away from the ball berring turbos for example. They are all generally about the same price until you start getting really big.

[SilverElantra]

not to go off topic at all here, what about the 70mm throttle bodies? whats up with those? pm me plz.

[bmxdad]

A T3 flanged manifold ... what are thinking of charging?

[Mahonroy]

Probably around the 250 range.

[usarmy88m]

Hey if you make them i would possibly be interested, would there be an external wastegate flange on the manifold I have a T3T4 turbo

[Silentwolf]

Probably around the 250 range.

$250?!? ****! (but still would you be willing to put a t25 flange on there instead?)

And yes what about waste gate would one have to have an internally gated turbo?

[bmxdad]

Probably around the 250 range.

If someone needed one, when could they get it ... like what would the turnover be.

Paypal to door stop kinda thing ... just wondering.

[Mahonroy]

I'm "planning" on having a few made in advanced just sitting on a shelf waiting for someone to want them.

I was also thinking, what about the t3 flange for a super 60 turbo? Will that turbo fit alright in the engine bay? Seems you can get a lot of power out of those turbos and they are inexpensive compared to most.

[dmdicks]

I would offer a "base" flange of a T25/T28. That opens up a vary wide array of Turbo options including the excellent GT28RS "Disco Potato". Then from there charge extra for different flanges like T3, T4 or Mitsu style.

[BColeman]

The T3 Super 60 fits okay with a log type manifold. I do have one suggestion though, because it's a very close call to the block using a log manifold and this type of T3, that you angle the flange away from the exhaust ports about 5 degrees or so. This way there will be about another inch or so of clearance to the block, and will not interfere with the stock fans at all. This information comes from experience with struck1481's ride, in which he had the log style manifold and a T3 Super 60. I had originally suggested the angled flange to him, but he changed his entire set up instead.

[RotaMan99]

That manifold doesn't look like it would be very efficient at spooling a turbo quickly or getting the most boost.

Can you direct the runners more toward the turbo instead of toward each other?

[Mahonroy]

That manifold doesn't look like it would be very efficient at spooling a turbo quickly or getting the most boost.

Can you direct the runners more toward the turbo instead of toward each other?

Your talking about things that are very miniscule with reguarding to performance. Maybe if you had a 500hp vehicle you might care more about the turbo manifold design and want to buy a expensive one to squeeze a couple more horses out of it. But for my intentions it gets the job done just fine for people who want to start boosting there vehicles, and its inexpensive. I could produce some excellent turbo manifolds with good flow and have to charge a lot for them and probably never sell any... not worth it in my opinion

[BColeman]

You are on the right track Mahonroy with this log type manifold. I say do it, because I am interested in one. I visit your website quite often, and have it bookmarked for parts when I am ready to build.

And I completely agree, if you aren't shooting for high horsepower numbers, this is a perfect, economical manifold, and will compliment almost any turbo like a T25, T28, T3, etc. And those turbos are good turbos too, and work real well with a log manifold.

Just keep in mind what I suggested though, about angling the flange about 5 degrees away from the exhaust ports/block, similar to the Honda one pictured above.

[RotaMan99]

Your talking about things that are very miniscule with reguarding to performance. Maybe if you had a 500hp vehicle you might care more about the turbo manifold design and want to buy a expensive one to squeeze a couple more horses out of it. But for my intentions it gets the job done just fine for people who want to start boosting there vehicles, and its inexpensive. I could produce some excellent turbo manifolds with good flow and have to charge a lot for them and probably never sell any... not worth it in my opinion

Understood. Just wanted to make sure you knew thats all. I havn't looked but is there room to throw th eturbo down near the bottom of the engine at all without it getting killed? I don't know how long the pipe work would be.

[rush6432]

The only problem with mounting the turbo low is the oil return. When i had my DSM t25 turbo setup on an obx manifold with a t3 to mitsu adaptor plate, i was LITERALLY as low as you could go down with the turbo without having oil return problems. the return line had come out of the turbo drain flange into a 90 degree AN fitting and then loop towrds the radiator and back around (180) just to achive some sort of slope to get it to drain correctly via gravity into the pan.

HUGE P.I.T.A

Anyway....

Im in for the manifold, as long as i can get an INTERNALLY GATED t3 or so sized turbo to fit without cutting or relocating anything and i have room for a 2.5 downpipe to run down past the alternator to meet up to the stock location of the catback/stock downpipe. If you sold some sort of setup that could mount t3 turbos with 5 bolt exhaust flange or vband flange and a downpipe as a kit id jump on it. Im sure others would as well. someone needs to produce a good bolt on kit minus the engine managment.

Actually i found that OBX makes a top mount turbo setup for the 1.6 on ebay and i figured maybe we could try using a setup like that. have the piping go down and then 180 up to a flange and have the turbo sit on top.... could give more clearance and more turbo options maybe...

[bmxdad]

How hard would it be to extend the log style to look like this:

http://www.elantraxd.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7494&stc=1&d=1206735091

Just wondering ... the mini ram is getting to be very popular.

[BColeman]

Something like that shouldn't be over complicated to fabricate. However, it lowers the turbo quite a bit, so you have to take into account your oil return line, making sure gravity will be able to do it's job and let the oil drain back to the pan.

On the other hand, a design like that, reversing the turbo to sit on top of the manifold, would be an absolute dream. But that would be even more complicated to make for that price range he's shooting for.

[Keyan]

i guess that design would work but the turbo has to be located to the right a little for large downpipe clearance of the alt, so the invidiual tubes wouldnt be equal length

[rush6432]

agreed on mounting it to the right. id say at the #3 exhaust port or so is about right where the flange should be.

Honestly im intrested in a log style and if you decide to make one, please put me on the list as ill be instaling it a.s.a.p. Id like to get a maifold made WITHOUT the turbo flange welded on to the log header or a hold drilled for it or anything. Im intrested in experementing with placement of the turbo (flange facing down or at an angle or straight out tword the radiator) Put me on the list and ill definatly test one out for ya if your intrested in a guinea pig.
my only request is that the runners are short and the log portion of the manifold is pretty close to the cyl head. you can always offset the flange at some sort of angle to get the turbo to clear the block and water pipe and crank sensor and such. From there you can rotate the CHRA and make it so that it'll sit properly to drain back the oil.

[Mahonroy]

Alright so finals are done and had some time to work on this. Got the parts CADed up on my computer, waiting for more of the materials to arive at my house then I should be able to start producing some. Still trying to figure a good source for the turbos so I can consistantly get the same ones inexpensively hopefully.

[Cypher]

whatever happened to your intake manifold ideas Matt?

[mayollo072R]

you should try a top mounted manifold like the obx available for the hyundai/kia 1.6 dohc engine. I can be the guinea pig. Even if you choose to modify this one.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/mayollo072R/TH10987202.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/mayollo072R/TH10987203.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/mayollo072R/TH10987204.jpg


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-Turbo-Manifold-Downpipe-Hyundai-Kia-Rio-Avante_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ010QQi temZ200225472031QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW



With the OBX manifold I have been able to install with both fans and a lil modification to the fan housing a Turbonetics T3/T4B and a made in china T3/T4E 9this one is bigger but the angle on the turbine side alows the turbo to stay away from the engine bell housing. Also both downpipes will be differrent cuz of the turbine angle.

Using an externaly gated wastegate will free up some room close to the alternator besides a dump pipe can be routed in the downpipe anyways.

[BLK02XD]

Yes, topmount, we need an affordable top mount.

[Mahonroy]

whatever happened to your intake manifold ideas Matt?

Those will be my next project for sure

[Mahonroy]

Flanges are getting waterjetted so now I'm working on the rest of the stuff. Decided to go with the TD05 Big16g's (evo 9 versions, flow a little more, weigh less, and have a slightly bigger wastegate port to controll boost better). Also going to be using the 18g's as well which will bolt up to the same flange just with a bigger compressor housing.

The discharge flanges for those turbos look like this:
http://i5.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/e7/f7/2496_1.JPG

I was thinking of getting some custom ones made which have a thicker flange, and has the small wastegate hole missing, but milling the back like this:
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Catalog%20Images/Flanges/Steel/ATP-FLS-042_450.jpg

That way I don't have to weld up every downpipe with a seperate wastegate tube (even though its better, its way to time consuming and difficult to produce those like that). But if the back of the flange is milled enough then there will be enough of a hole for the wastegate gasses to pass by no problem.

[Mahonroy]

So you think this would work good enough or no?

[mayollo072R]

I think that they would work just fine for low power application (160-200 whp) since the area where the flapper is going to open will give a restricted flow to the wasted boost resulting in a bit of turbulence. It is also for evo style turbos, right? A divorced dump pipe will flow free creating less turbulence hence resulting in more power.

[Keyan]

plus a divorced dump pipe = possible open wastegate dump = sounds amazing :)

[Mahonroy]

Decided to do it the right way, here is a portion of the downpipe tell me what ya think...

http://www.elantraxd.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7907&stc=1&d=1215462172

[mayollo072R]

Now that is a good flange for internal wg.

[Cypher]

Hey matt, I sent you a pm. check it man!

[Keyan]

too bad you didnt build that peice, its a dump pipe available for 4g63s.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z58/gdmbat85/upgrade/pics032.jpg

note identical part laying on box at friends house who is finishing up his upgrades

[NY2002ElantraGT]

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaamn! lol

[Mahonroy]

Yeah I can get the built version close to what it would cost me to build it myself and the quality is good

[Mahonroy]

Got some pictures of the prototype, fitment is perfect, so going to knock some of these out:

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/emanifold_1.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/emanifold_2.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/emanifold_3.jpg

http://www.jattus.com/Performance/emanifold_4.jpg

So what do you guys think so far? Got more info on them on my page too: http://www.jattus.com/Performance/emanifold.htm

[i8acobra]

Sorry... doesn't look like a $400 manifold.

[rush6432]

Sorry... doesn't look like a $400 manifold.


agreed, 150-200 bux TOPS at best for that.

[Mahonroy]

Yeah I wanted to keep it as cheap as possible, but unfortunetly it cost money to make these, the flanges I have to get custom made for me, which ends up being about 50-60 bucks. And if you ever look up the cost of the weld elbows and weld T's, they are expensive. Ontop of that the TD05H flanges, and the amount of time it takes to cut everything, weld everything, michine the flange so its perfectly flat, etc. There is no way in hell I could ever sell it to everyone for that cheap. And if you look at other manifolds available to us (which isn't much, unless you want a cheap ebay one that its a roll of a dice if it fails or not), thats the same price range as those. Sure it doesn't look like the maintek or seoulfull racing manifold, but those cost upwards of a grand to buy. I want to make an inexpensive, yet reliable manifold for people, and I'm pretty sure thats what I did.

[rush6432]

Yeah I wanted to keep it as cheap as possible, but unfortunetly it cost money to make these, the flanges I have to get custom made for me, which ends up being about 50-60 bucks. And if you ever look up the cost of the weld elbows and weld T's, they are expensive. Ontop of that the TD05H flanges, and the amount of time it takes to cut everything, weld everything, michine the flange so its perfectly flat, etc. There is no way in hell I could ever sell it to everyone for that cheap. And if you look at other manifolds available to us (which isn't much, unless you want a cheap ebay one that its a roll of a dice if it fails or not), thats the same price range as those. Sure it doesn't look like the maintek or seoulfull racing manifold, but those cost upwards of a grand to buy. I want to make an inexpensive, yet reliable manifold for people, and I'm pretty sure thats what I did.

Not trying to knock your product, but i can get a mild steel td05 flange for probably 12-15 bucks, header flange for another 30-35 (YES custom made...) and the log manifold kit for a honda off ebay (which you cut and weld yourself) for another 100.

obvioulsy you have to make profit but not 250 worth of profit.... thats enough to make 2 more manifolds....

[Mahonroy]

I'll believe the 30 bucks for a exhaust manifold flange when I see it (I called around and researched a lot, and its all double that price). Anyways, there is no way anyone would spend the amount of time building a exhaust manifold to make 50 bucks profit on it, you would make more money working at McDonalds. Don't want to discuss price because more than likely it will be different anyways, and people always want stuff cheaper than what it sells for, and want something for nothing, so its a waste of time to discuss it. (and I would rather discuss something like that with someone who actually builds manifolds and knows what they are talking about, not someone who just thinks how to make them)

[rush6432]

I'll believe the 30 bucks for a exhaust manifold flange when I see it (I called around and researched a lot, and its all double that price). Anyways, there is no way anyone would spend the amount of time building a exhaust manifold to make 50 bucks profit on it, you would make more money working at McDonalds. Don't want to discuss price because more than likely it will be different anyways, and people always want stuff cheaper than what it sells for, and want something for nothing, so its a waste of time to discuss it. (and I would rather discuss something like that with someone who actually builds manifolds and knows what they are talking about, not someone who just thinks how to make them)

No need to get butthurt im just posting my opinion.... calm down...

i think everyone can see its not worth 400 bucks. rather than try to start ****, why dont you do somthing to make it worth the 400 or drop the price. just suggestions.

[i8acobra]

You need more experience doing TIG before you can charge that price. The welds aren't very pretty. For $400, I want either one-piece cast or stainless tubular with pretty TIG's. I'd pay $600 for a really nice manifold before I'd pay $400 for a welded steam pipe manifold. This is why you don't see anyone selling cheap custom made manifolds. The cheap one's are mass produced and the custom ones are expensive because they're very high quality. I think you'll find there's little market for a questionable looking custom manifold at a cheap price.

[Mahonroy]

The tig welder I'm using has a feature on it that pulses a frequency, I haven't messed with it much, but do you think it would give better looking welds? (e.g. the stacked dimes look). I've heard of some people who weld manifolds that they say you want to do a root, then a cap, but was unsure of what that ment exactly. I also looked at a couple and it seems that they go over it with a weld first just to seal everything up (maybe being the root). Then afterwards they go over it again to make it nice looking (cap maybe?). Definetly would like to know how to make them look better for sure. I mean another option would be to provide a heat shield to go over it, but don't know...

[Denisst99]

you need a steady hand, back purge kit,quality filler rods, quality tungsten and a steady hand
for those kind of peice i don't use the pulse

pulse is mainly used for straight pieces or automated welding

[i8acobra]

I've heard of some people who weld manifolds that they say you want to do a root, then a cap, but was unsure of what that ment exactly. I also looked at a couple and it seems that they go over it with a weld first just to seal everything up (maybe being the root). Then afterwards they go over it again to make it nice looking (cap maybe?).


You bevel one (or both) edges you're going to weld. you then drop a weld in the groove to join the pieces. Then you lay another cosmetic weld over the top. I do this alot when I weld heavy steel to get good penetration.

[Mahonroy]

Ok that makes sence since when you buy the weld els, that they are already beveled so you can get a good weld.

[TSmooth8403]

$30 bux for an exhaust flange please let me know. I paid upwards of $175 for a custom cut flange. For that price I need a new supplier. Good job Matt for being an innovator and going out and spending your own money on stuff for this community. Yea, it might not be the most perfect manifold in the world but its functional.

I saw someone talking about top mounts. Top mounts are very expensive, especially if your using the schedule 10 pipes. They are some very expensive small pipes. I know! Matt I'm not sure who is supplying your flanges or if ur custom making them but I might be able to help you out with one of my suppliers.

[bmxdad]

You guys need flanges, try this guy. I had him create the flange from a stock gasket ... he can do stainless steel too.

http://www.davesport.com/cgi-bin/davesport/DFBETA2MS.html

[rush6432]

$30 bux for an exhaust flange please let me know. I paid upwards of $175 for a custom cut flange. For that price I need a new supplier. Good job Matt for being an innovator and going out and spending your own money on stuff for this community. Yea, it might not be the most perfect manifold in the world but its functional.

I saw someone talking about top mounts. Top mounts are very expensive, especially if your using the schedule 10 pipes. They are some very expensive small pipes. I know! Matt I'm not sure who is supplying your flanges or if ur custom making them but I might be able to help you out with one of my suppliers.

found a link for a guy out of canada somewhere on homeadeturbo.com that you send him a gasket and he makes a flange. last i checked (3-4 months ago) it was about 35 bucks or so for an exhaust header flange...

ill see if i cant dig up the link.

[FirePenguinz]

how much would it cost for you to make a manifold that would fit the Mitsubishi TD05 16G big turbo?

[rush6432]

how much would it cost for you to make a manifold that would fit the Mitsubishi TD05 16G big turbo?


he already makes this manifold except he uses an evo3 16g in his own kit. i believe he sells it for $399