Another turbo project

[bmxdad]

Below is an excerpt from a thread I have on the Streetkiaz forum. I'm showing this part, because of the fitment issues I had today. Do the Elantra's and Tiburon's have that much more room, or is adding a collector causing that big of a problem ... just read and it will make since ...


Progress ... finally, and it was a little eye opening too...

After taking off the old manifold, we test fit the turbo to help build the manifold, and instantly had fitment issues. The Turbo is a Garrett TBO357, which is a .57 trim T3. Its new in the box ... never been mounted, so when I dropped it down where the old manifold was, we saw some issues with clearance from the wastegate actuator and the down pipe.

Why are not the other people having this issue? Alpine ... they were using an MHI turbo. Theses are actually have a smaller physical body then the Garrett's and use smaller actuators. Does my problem come from using a small collector like below.. The OBX tubular, Alpine log and the Korean manifolds have no real collector. The four runners simply dump into the T3 flange, not like mine which has a collector.

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11653.jpg

As you can see there is not a lot of room (see below), so the passenger side radiator fan was removed. If its an issue with the air conditioning or engine over heating I'll re-mount it in front of the radiator.

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11650.jpg

With the radiator fan out of the way there was room, but because of the large actuator I couldn't move the turbo over far enough, for what we thought was room to sufficiently clear the alternator and its wiring; so we rotated it ... more room :-D

So after several test fits we had the first runner almost done. Ricky E., the owner of SpeedFactory does some nice work ...

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11654.jpg

This should give you an idea of the tight fit and the twist I mentioned earlier. There are several sensor where the actuator goes along with a coolant line.

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11655.jpg

A few extra pictures after the first runner is tacked into place.

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11656.jpg

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11657.jpg

One last thing (see below)... see the nut just above the middle stud? Its needs to remain ... its an oil gallery plug! When I had the flange made, there was no need for the hole. I was told it was a manufacturing hole ... right. Luckily it was an easy fix.

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11652.jpg

Will update midweek ... knock on wood ... knock ... knock, and show some more pictures. Had to get a new HD put in my laptop, which is fixed now ... so will be going on the dyno next weekend to do the N/A tuning and familiarize myself and my dyno tuner with it. Almost done!!! :-o

[Denisst99]

you could get the turbo much closer to the engine by using a different (smaller) actuator and mount it front of the compressor housing (where the inlet is) instead of on the side like in your picture or simply go with an external gate

[BLK02XD]

^^what he said, also if they're building a manifold, why not make it a top mount, or flip the turbo around so they don't have to run the outlet piping across the exhaust. also civic radiator and front mount the fan, that clears up alot of room.

[mnstrmech]

:bowdown: awsome!

[bmxdad]

you could get the turbo much closer to the engine by using a different (smaller) actuator and mount it front of the compressor housing (where the inlet is) instead of on the side like in your picture or simply go with an external gate


I don't want an external gate, and I did try a different location , but there are two sensor in the way. Anyone know what they are??

Just wondering if the space problem is caused by the use of the collector ... any pictures taken from underneath?

[KeWLKaT]

bmxdad:

the obx header, if you pay attention doesn't go 90 deg towards the bottom. it has a weird curve, and that is to allow the turbo to seat more towards the top.

Do that.

Or, do a topmount, that would be nice. if you're getting a custom manifold, might as well go all the way.

[Keyan]

the 2 sensors are oil pressure and crank position.

[Denisst99]

the actuator and bracket you're using are to obulky
you need a smaller actuator and a bracket that will mount the actuator on the inlet side of the compressor housing

[bmxdad]

Thanks for the info Kenyon ...

.... are the other turbos positioned higher then those two sensors?

A top mount is an extra 2-300 bucks, and I'm running out of money. (I have/had $3000 set aside for this), so its not an option ... but I did ask!


the actuator and bracket you're using are to obulky
you need a smaller actuator and a bracket that will mount the actuator on the inlet side of the compressor housing

The two sensors mentioned above are in the way ... they sit in front of the compressor.

This is what the OBX looks like, now just add a 2.5" collector and you see the problem ... fixable, just never seen it ...

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11675.jpg

[Denisst99]

nah, it can be done,
actuator will stand between the compressor inlet and the transmission case

[KeWLKaT]

Also... Another potential problem... check to see if the turbocharger will be sitting too low where the return line will not have sufficient space to go ''down'' in and be curved up, I saw this on someone's setup on nt.com.

[dmdicks]

Like Denis said...get a different actuator. You can get one and mount it like the lancer evo's. They are mounted underneath the compressor and connect to the wastegate diagonally.

[bmxdad]

Hmmm ... never thought of that, and its a moot point, should be done today :)

[dmdicks]

Did you get it figured out?

[bmxdad]

yep ... will show the result at the end of the week. It'll work out good I think.

Thanks guys ... :clap:

[bmxdad]

More manifold info ...

Well, after being pushed to the back of the line so many times ... its finally getting done. Should be ready this weekend, and at cost!! Less then an OBX manifold ;)

Only two more pictures ...
This shows the jig made to keep the flanges from pulling when welded. Also, notice the back purge setup and bolt clearance ... this is going to be a free flowing mini-ram.

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11783.jpg

Closeup of welds ... this is going to be a free breathing mini-ram.

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11784.jpg

[dmdicks]

nice welding! I would have them put a brace from the outlet flange to the manifold flange for extra protection against the weight of the turbo cracking it.

[Denisst99]

and a brace from the turbo to the engine
a brace from the downpipe to the engien is also a nice addtiton ;-)

[bmxdad]

Almost done ... one runner left .... five new pictures.


Front View ...
http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11796.jpg


Side View ...
http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11797.jpg


Bottom View ...
http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11798.jpg


Head flange view. There still needs to be some blending done. Looks worse then it is because of the camera angle
http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11799.jpg


Top View, Turbo flange is flat on the floor.
http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11800.jpg


Will be test fitting the 2.5" down tube this coming week.

[KeWLKaT]

Wow, going to be fun welding the inside part of the last runner, lol.

[dmdicks]

Nice Work!! Props to the welder!!

[bmxdad]

Quick update ... manifold is done, 2.5" down pipe and mandrel exhaust is next ... enjoy the pictures ...


http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11909.jpg

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11910.jpg

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/11911.jpg

[KeWLKaT]

A little tall, but looks good! Now if you get it Jet Hot Coated it would be the bomb!

[bmxdad]

Jet Hot wants $200 for a manifold like mine. That includes shipping and the 1300 Sterling finish good to 1300 degrees.

For the Extreme, it's $50 more and good to 1700 degrees ... $250

There's a place called Performance Coatings (http://www.performancecoatings.com/index2.html), 30 minutes from where I live that can do a 2000 degree ceramic coating for $110. I just might do that.

[NY2002ElantraGT]

looks great, and cant beat the price!

[Denisst99]

nice work ;-)

[bmxdad]

Little update ... Fidenza Flywheel is on the way. $320
http://www.fidanza.com/Images/Alum_Flywheel_big.jpg


Looking to buy the clutch ... some kind of Stage 3 or 4 this weekend. So far have narrowed it down to a South Bend Clutch ... the DXD-B Series Stage 4 (http://www.dxdracingclutches.com/home.html) $349
http://www.dxdracingclutches.com/images/ofe_street.gif



or ... a Spec Clutch ... SY873 Stage 3 (http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=113_927_947_949&products_id=6297) $349

http://www.034motorsport.com/oscthumbwm/w/550/h/413/q/95/f/jpg/fltr/wmi|phpThumb/watermarks/034watermark|C|20|0/hash/b33689f852a4531101d8f7965e8ab14a/src/images/SpecStage3Kit.jpg


If you know of something better at those prices ... let me know.

Going in for the new Exhaust, down pipe and all piping ... then intercool mount up ... should I run the intercooler without a Turbo?

Hell no...

After flywheel and clutch show up, new tranny is installed ... then the new Turbo ... Merry Christmas Greg :multiples

[Denisst99]

avoid the spec..
i heard good stuff about southbend
but i still prefer ACT

[bmxdad]

I've heard good things on ACT, but can't find anyone who has them ... where are you guys getting them for a 2006 Beta II?

[slipkknotfan]

if you cant find it for the elantra, search for the tib with same motor. it will be the same clutch but,sometimes companys dont list them for the elantra.

[bmxdad]

Yea, I know ... but nothing for a 2006. They all stop at 2004 or 2005, and I'm not spending $350 for something that might not fit. Anyone with a 2006 that has an ACT stage 3 clutch?

[cbogg]

04-06 should be EXACTLY the same. How's the top one in your pick spin the tranny? not seeing a center hub on that one, it might not work so good lol

[bmxdad]

There just showing the twp different materials that they use ... and there not the same ... pilot bearing is supposedly different, Well ... so I've been told ... :confused:

[mayollo072R]

What kind of t3 are you planning to use? Will you dare to do a top mount for me? :D Nice weldings. Were did you find the materials (piping and head flange)?

[bmxdad]

Its a 57 trim T3 Garrett. I had the head flange made at Davesport.com (http://www.davesport.com/cgi-bin/davesport/DFBETA2MS.html) ... thats my template he used, which is a factory steel gasket.

The piping is:

THIN-WALL 304/304L SS BUTT-WELD PIPE FITTING, 1-1/2"PIPE SIZE, 90 DEG LONG RADIUS ELBOW, SCH 10

You can get it from http://www.mcmaster.com/

My next one will be a top mount ...

[mayollo072R]

Looks like it will be 340 on materials only for a top mount unpolished. I will check the gasket size for the new 1.6 hyundai engine and compare it to the beta II one. It might be posible to change the flange on the OBX top mount one.

[bmxdad]

$340? Mine was well under $200 and that included the collector?

Davesport also has the TD8 flange ... if that helps

[mayollo072R]

What happens is that your type of manifold only need four 90 degree bends (40) and two 45 degree or so (45), four 6" straight pipe (40) and the flanges (80). For a top mount you need twelve 90 degree bends (120), two 36" pipe (120) and the flanges (80) if your making it header type if not you'll need less straight pipes but the bends remain to be 12.

Thats the difference but still is a greta price. ;)

[bmxdad]

Clutch update:

Fidenza Flywheel will be here Friday ...

South Bend Clutch will be here Monday. Talked to Andy Pyfer for a while and seems to be pretty good on clutches ... been doing it for, I think he said 30 years!!. Anyway, getting the DXD-F series but with the B series disk ... lots more drivable. Good deal at $345 ...

http://www.dxdracingclutches.com/images/DSCF1447.JPG

He also warned me of the Fidenza's friction surface. Seems they should be skimmed before being used ... Alan said that the countersinks for the hold down bolts have raised edges that really give problems with engagement (chatter) and disk lifespan. Anyone hear of this???

Before installing it I'm going to check the flatness, and if necessary, get a clean skim before using it ... :D
Can't wait ...

[dmdicks]

I love my DXD Stage 5 clutch. Engagement is really smooth, no chatter. I also installed a new friction surface on my flywheel. No issues so far.

[bmxdad]

Can you say Oooooooo .... 7lbs of rotating $$$

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/12562.jpg


Still waiting on the Clutch!!!

[bmxdad]

The South Bend DXD-F Pressure Plate, Cermic 4 puck sprung disk and a Fidanza Lightweight Flywheel ... can you say hook up ... but how long will it last????

http://www.streetkiaz.com/streetkiazx/uploads/photos/12591.jpg

KIA called and the new transmission is in ... hopefully it goes in Monday ... going to see Batman tonight!!!

Clutch/Flywheel price was $750 shipped ... installation is free, since they're pulling the transmission anyway ...