Air Filters

[LAMRONH]

Came across an odd fact yesterday while checking out K&N prices.
Apparently the 07-08 Spectra uses a larger box filter than the 07-08 Elantra.
Spectra uses the K&N 33-2201, Elantra uses 33-2380.
Size is 10" x 6.8" x 1.188" vs. 8" x 7.5" x 1", or 68 vs. 60 sq. inches.
Pre-07 Elantras use the same filter size as the current Spectra, which I suppose makes sense since that's the current Spectra platform.

Wonder why they went to a smaller filter? :confused:

[CornbreadXD]

maybe cause they want the kia brand to be geared towards a younger audience so they might try to give it a little better performance but that really wouldn't make too much of a performance difference 1% maybe

[kylemorg]

^ I agree.

The size is based on slight differences in the under-hood layout of the air intake system between the model years. The 60 sq. inches is enough for the amount of air to meet the stock engine needs.

Interesting info, though.

[RotaMan99]

Just a FYI. K&N filters are no better than stock paper filters with a stock or slightly modded engine.

[2003GT]

Wait what so I would be wasting my money if I put a K&N in my Air box with the resonator and airbox removed. BOB

[RotaMan99]

Wait what so I would be wasting my money if I put a K&N in my Air box with the resonator and airbox removed. BOB

This post confused the hell out of me....

Putting a K&N air filter in an airbox will yeild little to nothing in performance.

The restriction in the intake is not the filter, but the box and snorkle its self. So, to answer your question, yes.

[Cypher]

^ correct. If you were to take a hydrometer to different points in the intake tract then you'd see the restriction is in the baffling, snorkel, and all those bends.

[RotaMan99]

Unfortunatly there is a big misunderstanding when it comes to performance gains between the stock paper element and a K&N or other high flow filter on low performance engines.

Here is a site that has some testing done between 5 air filters. Including K&N and a Napa Paper Element.

Now the smaller the filter the more of a restriction it could pose but think of how much CFM our little tiny make-no-power-even-after-moddifications engines consume. Not including Forced Induction. Thats a whole different world.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

Its not really the best testing since the guy has not listed any CFM. There is another site im looking for with much more accurate results.

[KeWLKaT]

^ correct. If you were to take a hydrometer to different points in the intake tract then you'd see the restriction is in the baffling, snorkel, and all those bends.

A hydrometer? What would that do to you as far as air flow goes? lol

Wikipedia: A hydrometer is an instrument used to measure the specific gravity (or relative density) of liquids; that is, the ratio of the density of the liquid to the density of water.

You should use somehting that measures mass flow, such as a Pitot Tube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitot_tube)

And Rotaman, the way I look at it is this:

K&N filters are re-washable, so in the long run, you save money. We all know how cheap Hyundai drivers are.

[kylemorg]

I understood what he meant -- a differential pressure gauge.

[KeWLKaT]

Well the Pitot tube is exactly that ;)

Or you could measure with restiction-type meters like venturis and V-cones, bla bla bla

[Cypher]

you can use a hydrometer to test it. I'll quote directly from my book when I get home since I'm at work now.

[RotaMan99]

K&N filters are re-washable, so in the long run, you save money. We all know how cheap Hyundai drivers are.


I don't know about you but I replace my air filter once every two years or so. Even a dirty filter compaired to a clean one has little gain.

you can use a hydrometer to test it. I'll quote directly from my book when I get home since I'm at work now.

Its called a Manometer. I knew what you were talking about. Manometers are the only real accurate way to test for pressure drops.

[kylemorg]

Its called a Manometer.

My wife tried to use a Manometer once when I was around. It was aways at the maximum value when I was near it, LOL! :)

[xdforme22]

:hand::stupid::kick:

[RotaMan99]

My wife tried to use a Manometer once when I was around. It was aways at the maximum value when I was near it, LOL!
:hand::stupid::kick:

Huh?


Some information on Manometers
http://www.dwyer-inst.com/htdocs/pressure/ManometerIntroduction.cfm

[Qyn]

She must be using a defective one.

[KeWLKaT]

Yeah probably a manometer. If the guy actually said that in his book, I would question the thing in its entirety.

Also, Rotaman, it's for the engine longevity. Simple things that matter. Clean air filter every year, especially here where we use a ****LOAD of salt in the winter is very recommended, so spending 25$ on a k&n instead of 9$ a year, you save in the long run after just 3 years ;)

[RotaMan99]

If the guy actually said that in his book, I would question the thing in its entirety.

What guy and What book?

Also, Rotaman, it's for the engine longevity. Simple things that matter. Clean air filter every year, especially here where we use a ****LOAD of salt in the winter is very recommended, so spending 25$ on a k&n instead of 9$ a year, you save in the long run after just 3 years

If longevity is what your looking for than go with the Amsoil filter elements that will capture lots more than a K&N will. Reusable but pricey. Paper elements are better at filtering fine particles than a K&N as well. The engine will fail from a cracked head before it fails due to micron particles entering the intake stream.

Im in NH so there is tons of road salt as well. $9 / year is nothing. I get that in just pocket change for the year.

[2003GT]

Rota Man what I meant to say was the air box goes right into my fender. The snorkel and resonator in the well are gone. I might just get a cheap 20 cone and throw it on the end of the stock tubing to get a SRI or just make my own SRI out of piping or Black ABS. :) BOB

[RotaMan99]

The air box is more restrictive than the filter. So throwing on a cone filter will do nothing for performance gain.

[KeWLKaT]

I was referring to Cypher saying he was going to quote it from his book.

I know 9$ a year is nothing, but still if you do the math you save, lol. Also, I am not aware of amsoil filters, actually, can pretty much say i've only heard about amsoil on the internet, never seen any of their products on an actual shelf around here.

[2003GT]

Rota man how does that make sense. If I take the air box out of the equation then there is less restriction. BOB

[kylemorg]

^Yes, Bob, you are correct. If you replace the tubing with smooth-wall aluminum or similar and put a cone air filter on the end, the only significant restriction is at the cone filter.

A lot of the pressure drop on the factory system is from all the bends and the changes in air volume / chamber diameter from tubing to air box and back to tubing. The ribs on the plastic piece right by the throttle body don't help with air flow any either.

[Cypher]

man, I don't know where I got hydrometer from LOL I had the image of the thing in my head but I guess I forgot the name. Its a water manometer. Again, my misssssssssstake.

[tharptroy]

Its called a Manometer. I knew what you were talking about. Manometers are the only real accurate way to test for pressure drops.

a pressure transducer sending a signal to a DAQ would probably be better, since you cant really hold an engine at WOT unless you're on a dyno.

[RotaMan99]

a pressure transducer sending a signal to a DAQ would probably be better, since you cant really hold an engine at WOT unless you're on a dyno.


You can run a line into the car and have a friend watch the meter while you are at WOT. People do it all the time with great success.

Rota man how does that make sense. If I take the air box out of the equation then there is less restriction. BOB

I thought you ment you were keeping the airbox and ducting it into the fender. IF you don't have an airbox then you don't have that restriction anymore. But if you do than the airbox is more of a restriction than the filter.

I know 9$ a year is nothing, but still if you do the math you save, lol. Also, I am not aware of amsoil filters, actually, can pretty much say i've only heard about amsoil on the internet, never seen any of their products on an actual shelf around here.

Its personal preference I suppose but I just wanted to let others know that replacing the paper element with a K&N in the box won't help performance.

[tharptroy]

You can run a line into the car and have a friend watch the meter while you are at WOT. People do it all the time with great success.


you said that a manometer was the only way...maybe what you meant to said was that it was the cheapest way and has reasonable precision even if the accuracy isnt the best.

[2003GT]

I went to Autozone and bought one Of the Spector High Flow with the secondary input in the end of the filter. I was wondering what that box is Right after the ribbed tubing that is connected to the intake tract. I am also having problems holding the damn thing up until I get more rigid tubing. Hey for 25 its not that bad and its Washable. I also Love the way it sounds. Re set the ECU so I will have to see if it does anything. BOB

[RotaMan99]

You seem to go for sound more than anything Bob.

[2003GT]

Why is this Filter bad. Also I like the sound its what get attention. I was driving around today and with the filter on I had more head turns then without it. I would like to hear it with someone else driving it though. BOB

[RotaMan99]

WOW! Just WOW. Really, stop thinking about what everything else likes and starting doing what you like and what would actually make the engine perform better.

What you just said is the ABSOLUTLE WRONG way of modifying a car.

I never said anything about the filter being bad.

[2003GT]

I like the sound I like the attention. With the exhaust I am not going to go ricy and fart can with a big *** muffler hanging out because everyone else has one. I want to have a nice mellow sounding exhaust that when I get on it it sounds nice. BOB

[RotaMan99]

I like the sound I like the attention. With the exhaust I am not going to go ricy and fart can with a big *** muffler hanging out because everyone else has one. I want to have a nice mellow sounding exhaust that when I get on it it sounds nice. BOB

Im glad you do. Don't do anything only for the sound though. You will get more respect from reputable car owners/tweakers if you do something that is right and actually performs the way it should.

I hate to come off sounding like an a-hole but I guess thats just my nature sometimes :(

[Qyn]

Dude, you drive a Hyundai. People aren't looking at the car, they're looking at the guy who think's he's hot **** driving one.

[2003GT]

HAHAHAHAHAHA I know it I drove it to schools yesterday and got **** on by everyone. Dont worry Rota Man sometimes you have to be a dick to get your point across. I cant wait to get some tinting done. I hinted it to my mom for a Graduation Present. :) then they wil only notice the car. BOB

[RotaMan99]

Dude, you drive a Hyundai. People aren't looking at the car, they're looking at the guy who think's he's hot **** driving one.
:abovelol::D:bowdown: