i think i might be going with a SC....

[only1db]

i have been doing alot of reading over the last couple of days and i think i am going to be going with a sc from alpine.....for autocrossing i think it just makes the most sense to have more grunt down low and you have to love the way it sounds!

any thoughts on it??

[NorthernYankee]

I have to agree I like the low-end grunt of a SC a lot better then the Hi-end power of a TC.

--NY

[SWortham]

Yeah it would be nice in some respects, especially since it's a roots-type supercharger. A twin-screw supercharger would be nicer for efficiency, but oh well. Any positive displacement supercharger is great for low-end... it'll make your 4 cylinder feel like a potent V6.

But whenever I look at their site, I tend to have a lot of questions.

Do you have any idea how much power to expect? And isn't it designed for just 4 psi of boost?

And I can't make sense of this dyno for the old Tiburon 2.0L:
http://www.alpine-developments.co.za/super/std_sup_k.gif

159 kw = 213.1 HP
117 kw = 156.8 HP

What 4 cylinder Tiburon made 156 HP stock?

[th003g]

i've also been looking into possible forced induction applications for my GT hatch (auto) was heavily leaning toward s/c from alpine and emailed them... got a 2 line reply a few days later saying they did not make a system for my 2.5...? i was like who said I had a 2.5l engine... I had explicitly stated my beta 2 setup and asked for an explanation of the dyno graph seen above... none was given...

seeing that I have an Auto (lazy... live in the Ny metro area... LAZY) I was leaning toward superchargers to begin with, yet a low pressure quick spooling turbo like a t28 would do me well or so I think...

I''ve been on Rdtiburon.com, newtiburon.com, speed-factor.com, hp.com and hyundaiaftermarket.com to read up on possible turbo kits....
Gude turbo kit: wont fit without moving fans (per fordfasterr)
Speedfactor turbo kit: Nobody has one installed on a beta II yet seems to be a viable option if only I could get a reply from tim about our returnless system
Realengineering.com: parts and kits/ecu avail but not sure if they fit in elantra (they did the elantra turbo seen at SEMA.... yellow/black sedan)
Alpine: not liking the 5th injector setup and unsure about cost per hp ratio of either kit.... someone on Rdtib has an Alpine turbo kit for sale for the tib...and she around me ....2g's not bad....but not set on it since i cant get any concrete answers...

people interested in kits should get on newtib.com and show support for the betaII to rippmods who already makes a kit for the tib GT v6 that makes a ton of HP to see if they would look into making a s/c kit for our cars....

its getting frustrating...
i've got a good chunk of money in the bank and I'm not amking any interest on it
it used to be I didnt have the ballz to do it and I did have the money....
now I have both and am yearning to Force some air down my Gt's throat yet dont know who to go to...
i also figure I can go to level10 to build up my tranny in the meantime....

[only1db]

the fifth injector is not that bad...its a complete kit...plug and play! if you want to upgrade to larger injectors you can you just have to get the unichip reprogrammed...from what i have read is a pain the a$$ but well worth it...its the only piggy back unit that can mess with our timing with out throwing a CEL.....i would also look into getting some type of intercooling in there....maybe a liquid to air ....but i have to do more research!

from what i have heard is that.....the kit is set at 6-7 pounds of boost...i could be wrong

i also remember reading (i think autobot) saying that they offer a three warranty with their kits! ....so whatever you void with hyundai.....they take over...you cant beat that!

[th003g]

the supercharger from alpine does not come with an intercooler, the turbo does but the turbo comes with a mitsubishi turbo.... te04 i think... how is that compared to the t28 or t30 ar60

[only1db]

dont have a clue about the turbo...i am inquiring about the SC...i know that they dont have an intercooler....but i would create one some how.... :eek:

[evan938]

ill let you know about the speed-factor kit once i get it installed and complete...might not be till spring though...well see what comes my way money-wise

[only1db]

is it a supercharger? if so what kind is it?

[OdessitPashka]

I wouldnt go with alpine s/c, the best someone was able to get out of that kit was 200whp with around 5gs invested into the kit....
Just go with a small turbo, t25 will start spinning at less than 2000rpms and by 2500 it will be at 7psi giving you about 160-175whp.
Or you could get ball bearing turbo, those will spin almost instantly, but a lot more expensive :)

[only1db]

yeah it seems that a sc just wont work....there just isnt enough power for the money...but a turbo is going to be a PITA to install!!

one of the reasons i wanted to go with a supercharger is for the mere fact that i could do some NA mods and then slap the supercharger on there....but i might as well just save money and come next year go turbo....but there are a bunch of kits coming out and i dont have a clue which one to go with! .....o well...time to do some serious reading!

[silet]

dont have a clue about the turbo...i am inquiring about the SC...i know that they dont have an intercooler....but i would create one some how.... :eek:

The V6 Alpine SC has a water to air intercooler around the intake runners. On the I4 there isn't enough space to do the same and air to air intercoolers work mostly on TC and centrifugal SC not roots type...

[only1db]

um....after looking at this i might just go with the alpine turbo :bowdown:
Alpine turbo install (http://www.newtiburon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21817)

[OdessitPashka]

wouldnt suggest go with alpine turbo either, too many people had problems with the chip...

[2GTS]

wouldnt suggest go with alpine turbo either, too many people had problems with the chip...
Please show me some one because I don't remember anyone having problems with a properly installed kit.

[th003g]

maybe?5th injector (http://www.rdtiburon.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=449&highlight=alpine+turbo)
ohh hell just go to rdtib and the power added forum...

[2GTS]

Ok it looks like one guy had a problem and fixed it, another had a problem and just got a different supplemental injector controler and one guy is trying to fix a problem at this time. Still seems alot better than the alternatives for a complete kit. I might be a little biased since I go to a shop that specializes in Unichip tuning.

[Guess]

wish rippmods would do a vortec for our cars.

[SWortham]

Heck, even better, give me a Whipple twin-screw supercharger anyday. :)

[vabeach_03]

Just remember you'll be talking about a HUGE class change if you put any type of forced induction on your lantra. unless street mod isn't that bad by you. but by me it is a killer class. i would hate to ever have to run in it

[OdessitPashka]

is it hard to run with those cars?

[vabeach_03]

is it hard to run with those cars?



in SM there are almost no rules. you can have CF everything, engine swaps, turbos, and SCs. in STS (the class i'm guessing he's running) there is about 10 pages of rules(or what you can/can't have) in SM there is like 2. just says what you can't have.

[OdessitPashka]

so, you can run against some freaking mosters, but its not always really good to have too much power for auto-x

[only1db]

i dont know what class i would be in...i'm starting next season....when i have a real job and my weekends off...autocrossing would be just for fun....having forced induction for me would mean taking on anything that i wanted to without being embarssed!

[slow 2K2GT]

I was thinking about the Alpine SC as well for ease of install and full power band grunt. The turbo kit well it doesnt come with plumbing so that is another thing I dont like. Though from talking to DMDICKS he has had nothing bad to say about his kit, he also says he has gotten huge power gains from it, who know though.

[OdessitPashka]

s/c will barely give you 40hp, its not worth it!

[dmdicks]

I have the Alpine turbo kit on my BetaII Tiburon. It works great. I installed it myself and have had Zero problems. The turbo is a modified Mitsu TD05h 14b. It will spool to 20psi without much efficiency lost. The base BetaII kit is set for 11-12psi and with a good exhaust system will put down about 220WHP on stock internals.
currently I have the kit running reliably at 15psi with absolutely no lean conditions present. I don't have a unichip programmer close buy so to get the added power I added the 290cc sonata main injectors and a AFC to control them. Works Great!!

[only1db]

um.....that is mighty good....just might look into it...i just dont know!

[th003g]

i guess the main issue now would be if the manifold/turbo/charge pipe combo would fit in the elantra engine bay which is smaller than the tiburon engine bay ( area in front of engine and behind fans....)

[mrgrunt99]

Hey dmdicks, what are settings at with the 290cc injectors and the AFC to run reliably at 15psi ?

[only1db]

i guess the main issue now would be if the manifold/turbo/charge pipe combo would fit in the elantra engine bay which is smaller than the tiburon engine bay ( area in front of engine and behind fans....)


thats why i think i might be going with the SC!...there just isnt enough room...plus alpine has yet ot commment on wether the piping for the tiburon will work with the elantra....i remember reading that people were having issues with the plumbing :confused:

[SWortham]

i remember reading that people were having issues with the plumbing :confused:

I think it's just going to take somebody who's determined to make it work before anything gets done as far as that's concerned. Custom piping may be involved. But if you're timid about cutting & repositioning stuff, then it's just not going to happen. That's partly why I'm not doing it. ;)

[dmdicks]

Alpine does sell a turbo kit that uses a air to water intercooler. No piping problems there. They also have sold several BetaII Supercharger kits that are on Elantras. Best thing at this point is to call and talk to John Conchie, he's the owner of Alpine. I talk to him at least once a week. Nice guy. 714-379-8066

[only1db]

I think it's just going to take somebody who's determined to make it work before anything gets done as far as that's concerned. Custom piping may be involved. But if you're timid about cutting & repositioning stuff, then it's just not going to happen. That's partly why I'm not doing it. ;)


word....simplicity!!!

dm...thanks i will give him a call at some point...thanks!

i wonder how hard it would be to make an intercooler for the supercharer?? i wonder how much more power that would give the supercharger??? cant you basically run something around the runners of the intake to cool them down? :phone:

[silet]

A water to air would be very difficult and expensive. You'll need aluminum half shells to form tight seals around the runners, so you have no leaks... Big $$$$. You can't put an air to air intercooler to a roots type SC, only centrifugal (Vortec) units.

[SWortham]

Alpine also sells this for the 2.7L V6...
http://www.alpine-developments.co.za/news/pic01.jpg
http://www.alpine-developments.co.za/hyundai_tiburon_2.7.htm

You should ask them why they don't include an intercooler with the Beta2 kit. We can sit around guessing, but until you ask you may not have the insight that they get from developing these kits. It could be a clearance issue... or it could be that it doesn't need it for the amount of boost it's pushing.

[only1db]

yeah there is no room from what i heard...but i will have to email or call or something and ask them!! ....damn!!

my uncle is a machinist so he could possibly do it...i could do it up in CAD and then give him the plans...dont know :confused: