Presidential Debate II

[faraco3]

Anyone watching it?

WTF is McCain doing walking around everywhere in the background while Obama is talking?

[sciphi]

Being senile? Maybe he forgot where his seat is...

And Obama jabbering away I'd want to run away too.

[Deviant]

Anyone watching it?

WTF is McCain doing walking around everywhere in the background while Obama is talking?

Ha yeah I noticed that. He is so old, he is like everyone's embarrassing grandpa.

[cobase]

I dunno. Looks to me like McCain is doing better this time; he made a good first impression directly addressing the first questioner while Obama sounded scripted. Obama is more halting and nervous-seeming like he's still thinking about how to phrase things, McCain is smoother at these off-the-cuff answers, maybe his 26 years in the senate there.

They're both going way over their time limits and annoying the host, and they're both like "I know the American people don't want bickering but...he said X, voted for Y and he would do Z!... But let's get back to the issues..."

[Tx_boy]

I wonder how drunk you will get if you took a shot everytime McSame said "my friend"!!!!! LOL

[smileymattj]

Anyone watching it?

WTF is McCain doing walking around everywhere in the background while Obama is talking?

Free publicity!:D


I wonder how drunk you will get if you took a shot everytime McSame said "my friend"!!!!! LOL
That might gain him votes, referring to the people as his friend people might start opening up to him and liking him, producing a vote for him.

[slyderdai]

WTF is McCain doing walking around everywhere in the background while Obama is talking?

Ha ha He's off his meds lol. Goin all crazy on us.

[cobase]

I didn't think McCain did bad, but he didn't win me over with the "$3 Million overhead projector for a planetarium in Chicago," pork remark. That's the worst example he could find, eh? A science education project? Yeah, 'cause we wouldn't want any more of our kids getting excited about science when we're so short on lawyers and stock brokers. McCain -10 right there for me.

[judys01GT]

McCain kept on throwing out republican rhetoric and... oh wait there's a Hyundai Genesis commercial on..

ok, I lost my train of thought, oh well its late

I think Obama did better than McCain and I still haven't made up my mind yet.

Bob

[exdtuner]

I havent watched it yet cause it will be replayed but I did hear on MSNBC that McCain pretty much lost. I personally don't know though so don't kill me. I will watch it.

[ArunSenior04]

I liked Obama's "McCain is using a hatchet, while I want to use a scalpel" line.

Obama also kinda referenced Hyundai. He was talking about how we need to make the next generation of fuel efficient cars here in America, and not in Japan or S. Korea. I was like "Oh SNAP!" lol.

And the "Goodies" line from McCain had me dying laughing. Reminded of Golum.

[silversharkXD2]

I havent watched it yet cause it will be replayed but I did hear on MSNBC that McCain pretty much lost. I personally don't know though so don't kill me. I will watch it.

MSNBC is the most liberal station out there. They are worse than CNN

[CornbreadXD]

yeah +1 on msnbc, and when Obama said the line about having usa cars and not ones from s. korea, i was thinking about what domestic cars i'd be interested in buying and the only ones I want are over 10 years old, the new ones I can't afford Corvette,GT500, and Opel GT....err..Daewoo G2x....err..Saturn Sky RL.
The foreign car makers have plants in the USA though so they are providing jobs anyway, seemingly more secure too but im not sure how the foreign companies compare to GM and such w/ regards to benefits and stuff.

I wish they would have had more questions from the public though, the questions Brokaw had were recycled over and over. I like the questions like "What don't you know"

[03GT]

Anyone watching it?

WTF is McCain doing walking around everywhere in the background while Obama is talking?

he has to keep the blood flowing or rigor will set it. lol

I only saw parts of it, but wasn't impressed either way. Just more rhetoric, bleh.

[hyunelan2]

Foreign car companies putting jobs in the U.S. is a good thing, but the big picture still puts U.S. money going to foreign lands, where the companies are based. I guess I'd have to see how much money Ford and GM keep in the U.S. vs. spending outside of the U.S. and how much money foreign companies make here and keep here, vs. what they send to other parts of the world.

As far as "U.S. cars" I'd be interested in, I like the new Malibu [Kansas], the 2010 Ford Fiesta [Mexico] (aka Verve concept) and Pontiac G8 [Australia].


On the topic of Media, from 'Left' to 'Right'

MSNBC | CNN | CBS | NBC | ABC | FOXNews

[Silentwolf]

yeah +1 on msnbc, and when Obama said the line about having usa cars and not ones from s. korea, i was thinking about what domestic cars i'd be interested in buying and the only ones I want are over 10 years old, the new ones I can't afford Corvette,GT500, and Opel GT....err..Daewoo G2x....err..Saturn Sky RL.
The foreign car makers have plants in the USA though so they are providing jobs anyway, seemingly more secure too but im not sure how the foreign companies compare to GM and such w/ regards to benefits and stuff.


Aye, some of those car makers built plants here cause it saves on import fees n such.
As for good domestic cars, he was refering to economical (hybrids, et all)
I want to see what Ford turns out in the next couple of years with their eco-boost engines.
GM needs to get off the ethanol train and devote the research to other means.
Chrysler can go under

[03GT]

I wonder how drunk you will get if you took a shot everytime McSame said "my friend"!!!!! LOL

wanna have more fun, take a shot each time either of them say....


"Fundamental"

[CornbreadXD]

-
Yeah, most of the hybrids seem alright but the designs suck imo. the Tesla Roadster however is one I would look at, but that is because im a fan of Lotus and small roadsters. but that car is awesome. $100k though but if they made something less exotic and more affordable i'd be even more on it.
http://www.treehugger.com/tesla-roadster-charging001.jpg

[i8acobra]

I like the Tesla cause it's pure electric and can actually get out of it's own way. People who own them are less likely to be mobile traffic cones, like Prius owners.

As I said on another board... Obama's talking about cars made here, not cars made by US companies. The Sonata and Santa Fe are both made here.

[Spectre]

I havent watched it yet cause it will be replayed but I did hear on MSNBC that McCain pretty much lost. I personally don't know though so don't kill me. I will watch it.


MSNBC is the most liberal station out there. They are worse than CNN

First, I think Mccain really had Obama the first hour of the debate but he lost some momentum in the half hour. I think Mccain won the first hour and Obama won the last half hour. Overall, I think Mccain is the winner this time.

MSNBC? Man, I hate that channel. So does many other americans as they have the lowest ratings of all the news stations. Speaking of ratings Fox News has better ratings than CNN and MSNBC combined! CNN and MSNBC have polls showing that Obama won, but they do have more democrat viewers. Fox News on the other hand had a poll that said 86% of people thought that Mccain won, 12% Obama, 1% undecided. Of course, it always comes out this way because a lot of republicans watch that channel. But again, more than MSNBC and CNN combined? 86% of the people? With what? 30% of people on MSNBC thinking that Mccain won? Hmmm. More people thought Mccain won than we think.

I think Obama had the best line of the night. When Mccain talked about speaking softly, Obama was ready for him there when he mentioned Mccain singing about bombing Iran, in which Mccain claimed that it was a joke. Still, you don't sing about that stuff especially if you are in office. I was waiting for Ayers to come up but it wasn't appropriate for Mccain to bring it up that debate anyways.

[hyunelan2]

IMO, it was another tie. Obama supporters say Obama won, McCain supporters say McCain won. The small fraction that are independents are what matters. However, when you look at this morning's Gallop poll (an actual scientific poll, not the crap on Fox or MSNBC) - Obama has increased his lead over McCain by 1, now 52 to 41. That would say to me that Obama won last night's debate, as he has gained ground over McCain.

[silversharkXD2]

IMO, it was another tie. Obama supporters say Obama won, McCain supporters say McCain won. The small fraction that are independents are what matters. However, when you look at this morning's Gallop poll (an actual scientific poll, not the crap on Fox or MSNBC) - Obama has increased his lead over McCain by 1, now 52 to 41. That would say to me that Obama won last night's debate, as he has gained ground over McCain.


yes but wasn't Mcgovern leading in the polls as well

[BobMs_wht2k2]

GM needs to get off the ethanol train and devote the research to other means.


Sometimes I think you live under a rock! :tongue: Gm has been making E85 vehicles, CNG, hybrids, soon to be plug in hybrids and Hydrogen fuel cell. What else can they do?

[03GT]

Sometimes I think you live under a rock! :tongue: Gm has been making E85 vehicles, CNG, hybrids, soon to be plug in hybrids and Hydrogen fuel cell. What else can they do?

make something other than crap, that'd be a start. haha.

Seriously though, buyers these days are buying foreign cars because all the bad press they've heard over the years from their parents. Member, their parents were around in the really bad american motor years (late 70's - early 90's) These days, IMO the american stuff is just as good as the foreign stuff and should be considered as potential purchses when shopping.

[hyunelan2]

yes but wasn't Mcgovern leading in the polls as well

The overall picture of who is ahead by how much is not what is important here. We are just looking at change from before and after the debate to determine the debate's 'winner'. Since Obama gained a point, that would be an indication that he won over some people (or McCain lost them) as a result of last night.

[silversharkXD2]

could just be a margin of error. Polls are just samples

it was meant as a sarcastic joke anyways

[cobase]

The two largest polls (n=3000) now have Obama leading by either 6% or 11%...which means one of the is wrong because the margin of error isn't that big, but also that Obama has a pretty big lead. More importantly, the electoral vote estimates have Obama winning 264-163, which is pretty landslide-ish.

Personally, it was hard to watch because I'm getting burned out and it's not like I don't know who I'm voting for already. McCain was on the offensive, and I thought he was a smoother speaker in this format, but Obama had some good come-backs McCain didn't or couldn't respond to, like the "bomb Iran," comment, and the "I don't understand things, like why we went to Iraq," reply.

[03GT]

the other thing about polls, is by selectively selecting those whom you "poll" you can get any answer you want.

Polls mean dick. Just ask Gore and Kerry.

[Spectre]

IMO, it was another tie. Obama supporters say Obama won, McCain supporters say McCain won. The small fraction that are independents are what matters. However, when you look at this morning's Gallop poll (an actual scientific poll, not the crap on Fox or MSNBC) - Obama has increased his lead over McCain by 1, now 52 to 41. That would say to me that Obama won last night's debate, as he has gained ground over McCain.That increase is within the margin of error so who knows? Polls are don't mean anything as they are just samples. In 2004 the polls and the news networks were predicting a very close race. Both parties were very nervous but Bush absolutely clobbered Kerry in both the popular and the electoral vote. I think that Mccain will win this race. Why? The same reason why Bush won. Christians are going to hear the word "liberal" associated with Barrack Obama.(In which we know that Obama is liberal.) The Evangelicals are probably going to show up on voting day and vote for Mccain. Evangelicals make up a very significant number of americans. They are the ones who helped Bush and if they show up at the voting boothe, I will not be surprised to see Mccain edge out a victory on Obama in electoral votes.

[silversharkXD2]

what made me sick was when obama said this is the worst economy since the depression. Even left wing media occasionally says that it's just barely a recesion. If it's so bad, why did my dad's company go from 21 mill last year to 40 mill this year?


the other thing about polls, is by selectively selecting those whom you "poll" you can get any answer you want.

Polls mean dick. Just ask Gore and Kerry.

very true

[03GT]

what made me sick was when obama said this is the worst economy since the depression. Even left wing media occasionally says that it's just barely a recesion. If it's so bad, why did my dad's company go from 21 mill last year to 40 mill this year?



very true

Is the democratic "boogyman" argument just as the republicans use terrorists as their boogyman.

[hyunelan2]

f it's so bad, why did my dad's company go from 21 mill last year to 40 mill this year?


Probably because in 2008 dollars, $40mil is less than $21mil in 2007 dollars :abovelol:.

Seriously though, one company making an increased profit has nothing to do with the economy as a whole. I have a feeling a lot of companies are going to make money this year - they are called repo-men. ha.

[silversharkXD2]

we do insulation in the industrial field only. We are doing so well because plants are being built, plants are expanding and there is lots of money for plants to update insulation. If we are in a depresion like obama says, why are people expanding plants to keep up with production demands.

Think about it before you talk more ****:D

[hyunelan2]

The problem with that is the industrial production sector, which you mentioned, is very little of the U.S. economy currently. We are built on finance and technology - which are getting their asses kicked.

You cannot honestly be saying that the economy is fine right now? If you do think so, please send me some of the sand you are burying your head in, because I would like to be as optimistic. (btw, the DOW is currently down 1501 points since last Thursday).

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Location and state budget/condition play a bigger part in this whole "crisis" ( I might scream if I hear that term one more friggin time!). If you live in a state that hasn't had a balanced budget in decades (like IL) you are going to feel the effects of it. If you are in a state that is ahead of the ballgame and is focusing on the right stuff (like IN) we're not feeling anything but the gas prices.

Again, look at the local gov't of most of the states in trouble, and then look at the ones that aren't.

[silversharkXD2]

The problem with that is the industrial production sector, which you mentioned, is very little of the U.S. economy currently. We are built on finance and technology - which are getting their asses kicked.

You cannot honestly be saying that the economy is fine right now? If you do think so, please send me some of the sand you are burying your head in, because I would like to be as optimistic. (btw, the DOW is currently down 1501 points since last Thursday).

I never said it was fine, i said very clearly that we are not "in the worst economic situation since the depression" as obama clearly said. Read my post. I said we are not in a depression.

whats your address...I'll send you some sand :D

[hyunelan2]

So, in your opinion, what event was the "worst economic situation since the depression?"

[BobMs_wht2k2]

1979-1981. No jobs. No money. People did not go places, they did not buy frivolous things. They stayed home, they did squat because of the high inflation and 14-19% interest rates/

[silversharkXD2]

we have never been as bad as that period. That is why it is called "The Great Depression"


1979-1981.

somewhat



there aren't hords of middle class people selling pencils on the street corner yet, are there

and to argue again...our economy is built on consumerism and capitalism...so you are telling me that the industrial sector has no effect on our economy

[hyunelan2]

Right, but nobody said we are as bad as the depression. Obama said it was the worst "since" the depression - meaning the depression was the worst, then since then this was the next worse.

The January 1980-November 1982 recession would probably get my vote as the worst, but we are only at the start of this one - it could be much longer. Or not.

[silversharkXD2]

Right, but nobody said we are as bad as the depression. Obama said it was the worst "since" the depression - meaning the depression was the worst, then since then this was the next worse.

The January 1980-November 1982 recession would probably get my vote as the worst, but we are only at the start of this one - it could be much longer. Or not.

thats my point!!!! it's not the worst since the depression. there have been worse recessions

that has been my point in every post. You just agreed with me -

"The January 1980-November 1982 recession would probably get my vote as the worst"

[hyunelan2]

Agreed that it's not the worst... yet. There are many "economic people" - whatever their actual titles are - that are saying this is going to last longer than recent recessions. We've actually been kinda lucky so far that it's happened so fast. Even though we fell pretty, far pretty fast - the downturn's only been going on for, what, about a year so far?

EDIT: Posted before I finished my thought

Other than seeing some empty houses for sale, there is nothing different in my neck of the woods than I've seen in Indiana or Missouri. State's may have some budget crunches, but this hasn't been going on for long enough for anything to become apparent.

As far as this not being the worst recession, I just read this after the close of the markets today:

The weak close left the Dow down nearly 35% and the S&P 500 down 37% from the peaks of Oct. 9, 2007. The anniversary of that peak is Thursday.

35% drop in a year is HORRIFIC.

I was trying to find a market indicator for what happened to the market in the early 80s, but have only found this so far:


The Federal Reserve's extremely tight monetary policy intentionally plunged the American economy into a deep recession.

The unemployment rate in the U.S. reached 10.8% in December 1982—higher than at any time in post-war era. Job cutbacks were particularly severe in housing, steel and automobiles. By September 1982, the jobless rate reached 10.8%. Twelve million people were unemployed, an increase of 4.2 million people since July 1981.[5] Unemployment rates for every major group reached post-war highs, with men age 20 and over particularly hard hit.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Agreed that it's not the worst... yet. There are many "economic people" - whatever their actual titles are - that are saying this is going to last longer than recent recessions. We've actually been kinda lucky so far that it's happened so fast. Even though we fell pretty, far pretty fast - the downturn's only been going on for, what, about a year so far?



You mean the same people that thought it would be a great idea to offer risky mortgages to low income, low credit rating borrowers? Yeah, I'm going to listen to them. :rolleyes:

[silversharkXD2]

You mean the same people that thought it would be a great idea to offer risky mortgages to low income, low credit rating borrowers? Yeah, I'm going to listen to them. :rolleyes:

:abovelol:

[hyunelan2]

You mean the same people that thought it would be a great idea to offer risky mortgages to low income, low credit rating borrowers? Yeah, I'm going to listen to them. :rolleyes:

Worked out great for those people. They made a ton of money, then had the Gov give them billions more when people stopped paying their bills. Then, they all went to a spa in California.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Yep. . . but didn't do anything for anyone else.

[hyunelan2]

Hence, the need for regulation on things where runaway greed can screw the majority of us.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Here's the problem, the gov't is the one that promoted it. So there goes that theory.

[CornbreadXD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4&feature=iv&annotation_id=event_597487
Hey I saw this pretty cool video on youtube that someone told me about, i knew alot of the info in it already because i looked stuff up but it had names I didn't know. I know it won't change your minds if its made up because nothing will EVEN if Obama was to say that Louis Farahkan(sic?) will be the VP instead of Biden.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Don't even get me started on farakahn. . .

[Jlivan]

Ha yeah I noticed that. He is so old, he is like everyone's embarrassing grandpa.

A creepy grandpa, in some of his wandering arounds I thought he was going to sit on timmy's lap. What was with him calling everyone "my friends"?

[cobase]

FactCheck's article on the second debate is far more critical of McCain's statements than Obama's:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_debate_no_2.html

"McCain's" mortgage plan isn't really his - it's part of the bailout bill, and Obama supported it 2 weeks earlier.
McCain said his healthcare plan called for a $5000 health insurance tax credit for "every American," when it's actually half, $2500.
McCain left out the part where he voted to cut funding to force an American withdrawl from Somalia.
McCain's claim on Obama's "94 votes to raise taxes," includes many bills that would actually cut taxes for those making under $1 million.
McCain's claim that Obama is proposing $800 billion in new spending omitted that, in the end, his own budget proposal yields almost the same budget deficit.
McCain's boast that he killed a corrupt defense contract is true, but omits ethics questions about McCain's involvement.
McCain's claim that Obama voted for tax breaks for oil companies... the bill had more tax hikes than cuts, so that's misleading.
McCain's claim that we're buying $700 billion of oil from hostile nations is off - the total is now $500 billion and includes oil from Canada, Mexico and UK, not just hostile nations.
McCain said he argued against sending troops to Lebanon, but he wasn't in congress yet when it happened. He did oppose it once in office.

Obama claimed he could lower health insurance premiums by $2500, which is unsubstantiated.
Obama said he is in favor of nuclear power, but recently he's been very reluctant to embrace it.
Obama's figure on the Iraqi surplus was off by a factor of 2 or 3.
Obama's claim that oil companies are "not using" 68 million acres isn't totally true, they are being explored somewhat.
Obama mentioned computers were invented recently by the US government, which is wrong - but the internet was.
Obama's accusation that Bush increased the debt from "about 5," to "over 10 trillion," is almost true... 5.76 to 10.025 trillion.
Obama's claim that earmarks account for only $18 billion is essentially correct, estimates range from $16.9 to $18.3 billion.