Beta2 Alpine Supercharger...

[FordFasteRR]

well... it all depends on the price he offers it to me @.

I am certain that the stock pistons can handle 10 + psi of boost with a slight drop in compression.

:)

[OdessitPashka]

I believe the head spacer is only 2mm thick or so, and one on kspec is 3mm and they say that it will drop compression to 8.5 so with 2mm it shouldn't be that low.

I sent you PM ford :)

[Dweet]

The head spacer lowers the compression by the same amount as the pistons so it wont make a difference except no matter what anyone says, the head spacer totally f*cks up the burn rate and squish areas. Pistons are the way to go.
+1 work arounds are pointless, i dont believe in them when properly tuning a vehicle

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... pick two because you can have all 3

[only1db]

^ what?

[tharptroy]

yeah, that'll definetely **** the quench pad clearance.

dont worry about it only1db, he meant to say "cant" have all 3....the moral is:if you do half-assed mods to your car, you'll get half-assed results.

[only1db]

trust me i know! that is one thing that i think i have prided myself on with my xd...no half ***....thats why i want to get all the facts before hand! i think its cool that ford is the quinea pig...beause he will be able to figure everything out

[shovel_it]

Im the new kid on the block...I will be purchasing a supercharger kit! I've spoken with Ford! I wnated to go with the SMT6 instead of the unichip because it is tunable!

[only1db]

good luck with it.....lets know how it goes

[OdessitPashka]

Well, I think alpine wouldn't be selling their spacer if it wasn't workin. Many people used it and I've never heard of a problem. Yes pistons are way to go, but in Fords case he doesn't really need them because he can only go so high with boost.

did you get my PM man?

[slow 2K2GT]

in fords case he is looking for an overdrive crank pulley and an underdrive blower pulley (if im not mistaken) so perhaps pistons may be the way to go, just in case. There always seems to be a **** storm of problems when you least expect it and well I would really hate to blow something that is of great importance (ie piston or con rod). My friend just blew a rod and it made a mess of his block.

[Elantra2.001]

Many people used it and I've never heard of a problem.

I havent heard of Alpine specifically, but i have heard of head spacers creating a hot spot in the engine that resulted in detonation so bad and so quick that the rod shot through the piston and created destruction for several seconds at 6000 rpm and resulted in a serisously mangled block.

[OdessitPashka]

wow, could be true, but I honestly never heard anything bad from people that use alpine. ford should ask DMDicks, I think he's using one.

[Elantra2.001]

Yeah its possible nothing will happen, but the spacer makes you lose horsepower. You will never see a head spacer on a race car because you lose horsepower due to the changed burn dynamics. In fact its not even likely that something like that will happen. Its just that i dont like band-aid solutions like that.

[FordFasteRR]

well, dmdicks is using the alpine head spacer, but he is also using the 5th injector setup... remember folks... that tb injector acts as a cooling agent for the FI system... its like having an alcohol injection kit except its using regular pump gasoline.. the result is STILL a reduction in intake charge temps...

I will be happy to use the unichip...

also, as far as the comment on the SMT 6... that is WAY overkill for a simple blower setup..

if you plan to build the bottom end AND spray some nitrous. .. then you should consider something so radical as the SMT-6...

otherwise, you are wasting money for no real gain in power...


:)

[only1db]

but for 10psi it would do....anything over that and any type of crazy boost...i would go pistons....i dotn know its a fine line

[OdessitPashka]

so ford are you gonna buy my head spacer or not?

[slow 2K2GT]

so ford are you gonna buy my head spacer or not?

Now thats a sales pitch, straight to the point, you should be in retail.

[OdessitPashka]

I pmed him and asked this question here, but he's just ignoring me, so I figured I'd ask him so he can definitely see it.

[only1db]

Now thats a sales pitch, straight to the point, you should be in retail.
:abovelol: :abovelol: :abovelol: :abovelol:

i believe he is keeping the system as is for now and then redoing some of the things....

[FordFasteRR]

OD... I'll skip on the spacer at the moment.

However, if I need it in the future i'll ask you if you still have it.


:)


also, let me give you guys a quick run-down of what I plan to do..

#1. install the blower "AS IS".
>>>>. If I am not happy with the results.. IE: at least 15.00 1/4 mile then I will do the following.

#2. Install a smaller blower pulley from NextGen.
>>>> If this does not yield the 1/4 mile performance that I want..

#3. then I will install the water / alcohol injection kit...
>>>> If this still does not get me where I want... then..

#4. I will have Next Gen make me a custom over size billet crank pulley and the matching smaller size idler pulley ( you need to alter the idler pulley because if not there may be some un-wanted contact, However Once the bigger crank pulley is made, I will test-fit to see if the stock idler interferes... )

>>>>> If at this point I am not getting the power than I want.. I might just sell the kit and get the turbo... :)

[2GTS]

I would think that with a smaller blower pulley, water / alcohol injection and a larger crank pulley you would be happy with the output. Well atleast for a while untill you decide to really go crazy.......

[FordFasteRR]

hmm... crazy...


I'll tell you what sounds crazy.. but fun...

combinining the blower & the turbo kit from alpine on the same engine..

of course... this would be all forged internals & low compression pistons... forget the head spacer... :)

[shovel_it]

That does sound crazy...The only reason Im goinh with a supercharger and not a turbo is that I've aleady invested in headers and 2 1/2 inch exhaust...Don't want that money to go to waste. I would have to change it out going turbo!

[OdessitPashka]

alright man, just let me know cuz I will let it go for cheap to u

shovel it, how much did you spend on your header? $200? I'm sure you can afford to get it off and sell it for $100 and your exhaust will be just perfect for turbo setup!

[shovel_it]

Every cent counts...Got it from teamSR for $250.00. But I bought exhaust wrap...did that to keep the engine compartment cool since I dumped the heat sheild. Are you running both Turbo and Super...???

[OdessitPashka]

Did the exhaust wrap help?

I'm kind of against superchargers that are currently being made for our cars and find turbos a whole lot better, but its a different topic and it's been discussed a million times before.

I'm turboing my car :)

[shovel_it]

Exhaust wrap is great...defintely keeps the heat contained! Good Luck with the Turbo..I've looked at it and it seems a lot more modification goes into that route. In addition the delay from acceleration is a real problem!

[OdessitPashka]

thanks but if you dig though the discussions that we've had you can find that turbo lag can be almost eliminated with proper mods :) and then the sky is the limit with the power that you can make!

but ford is not seeking what I do, so supercharger should be perfect for him :)

[Elantra2.001]

A properly set up supercharged engine will out accelerate a turbocharged engine. Porshe proved it with tests they conducted. This is assuming equal wheel horse power. Now, the thing that makes the turbo better, is that since its more efficient, its easier to make the turbo car reach that horsepower level than a supercharged car. But back to the discussion at hand, have you considered for the 5th injector, aiming the injector against the air flow since it sits outside the runners? I have heard and seen evidence that an injector done this way can result in better atomization and more even distribution of the air fuel mixture to the cylinders. Some people are trying the same thing with N20 and fuel mixtures.

[FordFasteRR]

......... have you considered for the 5th injector, aiming the injector against the air flow since it sits outside the runners? ........


Yes, i've read about that technique.. but since the alpine 5th injector is a blow-through setup (on the supercharger setup) then it really doesnt matter since the air/fuel mixture is going to be compressed by the blower.

ALSO, since there is not as much pressure on the intake side, that injector might just end up puddling all the fuel on the air filter since there isnt enough vacume to push the fuel in the other direction like with a turbo setup...

So for a blower setup, it makes more sense to face the 5th injector directly towards the TB.. :)

[techcontib]

On my kit the 5th injector is behind the TB on the turbo kit its in front of it.
P.S. the unichip can also control nitrous as well. :D

[FordFasteRR]

On my kit the 5th injector is behind the TB on the turbo kit its in front of it.....:D

Understood, but it is still BEFORE the supercharger itself...

Therefore, it could be a problem spraying it the other way... :)

Thanks for the input on this since you actually have it lol.

UPDATE:

I just got off the phone with TC from Next Generation Motorsports...

We discussed the idea of trying the Mafterburner & bigger injectors to tune my car after we baseline it with the Unichip...

In other words... after I install the kit from Alpine (AS IS) I will dyno it and get it dialed in so everybody will know what the increase is...

Then, I will get a set of bigger Injectors... at this point, I have settled on the sonata injectors, but if that is not enough, then the 03 Ford Cobra Injectors are an easy upgrade that only requires splicing the connectors & adding a rail spacer.. but they flow 409 CC @ 43.5 psi.. and 440 CC @ stock XD fuel pressure levels... + the Mafterburner & eliminating the 5th injector...

I thought about the ford cobra injectors because I saw one up close at the track this friday and the injectors looked VERY MUCH like the hyundai injectors and When I asked TC about it he said that those are the ones he uses.. :) !!!

IF the mafterburner setup yields more power, then I'll stick with it.. otherwise, i'll go back to the stock injectors & the Unichip and thats that.


In the mean time, I'm going to go back to the dyno this week and tine the cam sprocket... !!! :)

[tharptroy]

ford, I heard something about it washing the lubricant off of the bearings if you spray in fuel before the blower (that is the way the alpine is setup, correct?).

I'll look into what they had to say.

this is what he had to say "Plumbing gasoline through the blower's a whole different ballgame because it'll wash the grease out of the rear case bearings, which aren't sealed."

someone else mentioned that it might eat the coating off of the rotors.

I guess the real question is: is the tib setup the same way? who has the most miles, and has anyone had any problems?

[FordFasteRR]

Damn you are making a good point..

I dont think that the any of the v6 guys have the unichip since their setups use a fpr to boost the fuel pressure...

Also, the turbo guys that have the unichip dont apply since they are not using a blow-through setup.

[only1db]

^ yeah that went over my head....what is he talking about?

[2GTS]

TC confirmed the MAFterburner will work on a MAP based system? I assumed that it would be MAF only based on the name of the product, but we all know the saying about assuming things.

[tharptroy]

it just works by altering the maf reading to the ecu, you could similarly alter the map sensor with the same device

[2GTS]

If the output is from the MAF and MAP are compareable. I don't know if they are and that's why I was asking if this is proven to work or just speculation.

[tharptroy]

they are both 0-5v sensors, 5v being the peak amount of loading (and subsequently, fuel)

[dmdicks]

The Stage II V6 Supercharger uses the Unichip to adjust timing and control the 7th injector for added fuel.

[FordFasteRR]

ok, I did not know this.

however TC is checking with the manufacturer of the mafterburner to find out if is compatible with the map based XD's...

Let it be known that the mafterburner that TC sells is specifically designed to alter the MAF signals of the v6 tiburon ... the standard over-the-counter mafterburner is designed to work with FORD engines only.....

UPDATE:

I had a long talk with alpine developments today about the blower...

They are almost done with whatever they were doing with it and if i'm lucky it will ship out this week...

I asked him a ton of questions and I got some interesting answers...

Q. Is the blower manifold cast or billet ?
A. Cast.

Q. Can you send me a silver colored blower instead of flat black?
A. Yes.

Q. If I change the blower pulley to a smaller one, how can I adjust the fuel mixture to compensate for more boost?
A. Just add the 2.4L sonata injectors, the stock ecm will trim them in closed loop without a fuel tuner and then it will dump a lot more fuel in open loop (WOT) to compensate for the boost... however you still might need some tuning (that is where my SS fuel tuner comes in).

Q. Can i retain my heat spacer?
A. No, the supercharger brackets are made to fit without a spacer, it will need to be removed.

Q. Does the blower setup use the factory lower manifold brackets?
A. No, they are eliminated.

Q. Will I be able to keep my OEM tuscani strut bar ?
A. YES, the new manifold designg places the blower 2 inches lower and further back than the original design... thus allowing strut bars to fit perfectly :)

:) OHH YEAH !

[SuperGLS]

Good news. I can't imagine how waiting for this is killing you, because it's killing me and I'm not even getting one, haha.

[FordFasteRR]

I know.. I cant wait..

He also mentioned to me that they are working on a blower for the CVVT engines... they are actually testing one at the moment in their shop... but its on the kia ... still has the 2.0L cvvt xd2 engine :) LOL

[only1db]

Good news. I can't imagine how waiting for this is killing you, because it's killing me and I'm not even getting one, haha.

yeah same here!!! this is killer!! but you are sure getting some good info ford! you da man!

[Phiber]

Man Ford.. Can't wait to see how this turns out. :)

[OdessitPashka]

are you gonna sell your heat spacer? is it the one that carbonman makes?

[FordFasteRR]

well, yes I'm gonna sell it but a few of my personal friends get first bids on them.. If they dont want it then i'll put it on the forum :)


Thanks for asking.

[only1db]

anything??......patients is not one of my virtues!!!

[Guess]

Ford any news on when the kit is going to get there ?

[slow 2K2GT]

Ford...this is no time to give us the mushroom treatment!

[FordFasteRR]

I spoke to alpine on monday or tuesday last week, I did not call them back because i didnt want to seem too pushy... however I will call them on Monday in the afternoon.. remember I am in FL and theya re in CA so its like 3 hours difference...


I'll update this thread once I speak to them.

They all know me by name now lol (my real name). lol :)

[shovel_it]

This is the new kid on the block again...Where do you guys tap into the ecm control wires to access the signals for the piggyback. The wiring loom is kinda tight! Any suggestions would be appreciated. I intend to use in-line tap connetors!

[FordFasteRR]

well,
it depends on what device you are trying to install.

can you start a new thread in the NA section and specify the product you are trying to install, and the sensor you are trying to tap into...

Then we might be able to help you a little more .


Thanks ! :)

[jeffv1970]

Ford,
What is the projected horsepower increase with the SC?
With your current mods what will that put you at?
Do you think that a auto tranny could handle it if it's not romped on alot?
If we manage to pull off a meet in central Ohio, you need to bring it out.
:bowdown: :bowdown:

[FordFasteRR]

ohio ! HAHAHAAA projected power gain is like 60 hp... I hope ! Either way, i'm gonna put a smaller blower pulley on it to up the boost !! :) I want MORE POWAAAH !! DO IT NAAAAOOOOW !

I live in SOUTH FLORIDA DUDE ! !

Holly wood FL which is just a skip (5 miles) away from Fort Lauderdale. :)

[Guess]

you know ford I'm so looking foreward to when you get it that you would almost swear I was getting it lol .

[jeffv1970]

I had to try Ford just wanted to see it up close.
Will just have to wait for the install and dyno runs.
Heres hoping it turns out to be everything you expect. by looking at you ongoing post you've really thought it through. Once i see how it does i'll porbally splurge for one.

[FordFasteRR]

Did i mention that I had them get me a blower case that is silver instead of flat black ?

yes :) It will match the car ! :) LOL

[only1db]

thats awsome...now all you need are the pics!

[FordFasteRR]

well, i'll be taking lots of pics as soon as the kit comes in :)

I hope i can still retain the factory engine cover with the blower... I think it'll look very cool with this type of setup :)


http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/new_cover_1.jpg

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/new_cover_2.jpg

[OdessitPashka]

It would be the best sleeper man!

[Pumbaa]

Ford, I can't wait to see the results. I've been dying for a SC for the XD. Here in Seattle we have 2 of the first Alpine SC'd Tib v6's and one currently has 244whp. And having a ride in it once I have come to the conclusion that the SC is the way to go. Quint's Tib has the Unichip in it. My dream plans for my GT is to get KONI Adjustable struts with Azenis Tires using the bolt on SC. That is my autocross dreams. I also agree that if the SC works with the stock engine cover it would look awesome.

[FordFasteRR]

well, even if it doesnt quite fit.. .I can always trim it ...

[techcontib]

I hope it ain't the same silver color that mine is or your going to hate it. I wish mine was black.lol I think all your going to have to do is a little trim work. Hurry up and get he damn s/c.lol I would like to see the new gains. :D

[sed]

Ford, come on dude, Ohio is only like 23 hours away from us at 85mph....

we could do it!


uhm 2.12999 for regular x 23 hrs of driving = sorry ohio no s/c show for you

shawn :)

[FordFasteRR]

sed... comes out of the shadows... :)

I just spoke to alpine again..

They told me that they are working on relocating the bypass valve to the front of the blower now that their new setup locates the blower much lower than the old models... with this relocation of the bypassvalve (blow off valve) on the front of the blower it will prevent any impact with the firewall which apparently was some sort of problem on the older model blowers..

He asked me to follow up with him on friday after TG.

ohh well :)

We wait...........................

[Elantra2.001]

Is it a recirculating bypass or atmosphere releasing bypass valve?

[FordFasteRR]

from what i've seen its a recirculating bypass valve, however I think it can be modified...


in that case I might try to play with it and see how it turns out :) HEHEHE

[Elantra2.001]

Well since its a MAP sensor, it doesnt matter how you do it.

[dmdicks]

the roots blowers in the alpine kits don't have a BOV. They have a bypass valve that only opens under low load condtions.

[azwildfire]

i am with DMdicks... a Bypass valve is NOTHING like a blow off valve. what a bypass valve does is stop air from going INTO the supercharger while under light load *vacumme* conditions, when you put the engine under load the bypass valve closes, and makes the air go THROUGH the supercharger *thus being compressed* before it goes into the intake. this is also often why you will hear chatter from the roots blower while idle... the screws are turnning but there is nothing in there to compress so they wiggle around a little bit because of lack of load. this is normal and healthy

If you are hoping for a PPPSSSTTT sound, i hate to tell ya, but you will be disappointed .
you could configure a centrefugal SC to work with a blow off valve though

p.s. yes i had an alpine supercharger kit on my car so i know what i am gabbin about :P

[Elantra2.001]

Guess im still stuck in the turbo mind set, where the ARE very similar.

[FordFasteRR]

well, depending on the type of bypass valve that it uses.. it may be either modified or replaced with a different type ... that might yield some cool sounding results..

however i dont really care for modifying the kit that quick.. i want to install it "AS - IS " and then work on the tuning and then go from there....

:)

update: let it be known that I have acquired the Split Second PSC1-001 digital fuel tuner with built-in 2 bar map sensor...

I'll be using this to fine tune my blower setup once I upgrade to the higher boost pulley and bigger injectors :)

Ohh yeah !!!

Here is what it looks like:

http://www.splitsec.com/products/psc1/PSC1.jpg

I got it from ncspecv for $65 !!

retail price is $265 !!

YEAH !!!

[only1db]

damn my ignorace....this is just going to tuen your air/fuel ratio right?? how does it work?

[techcontib]

The only problem with the previous models was the idle bypass valve/silinoid for the previous gen tibs. Don't know if the Beta II uses this or not. You can see it right on the back side of mine in the pics.

[dmdicks]

The BetaII engines do not use the external idle bybass valve like the BetaI engines use. I hope Alpine took this into consideration when they built the BetaII supercharger. I'm 99% sure they did though.
Nice score on the controller Ford! Please let me know how it works for you. Also once you get the S/C you should port the TB opening and slap on a BBTB... :-)

[ilanpro]

Did you getthis yet?? is going on 2 months

[FordFasteRR]

well, they assured me that the blower comes with a bypass valve and that on the new models it will be mounted on top of the blower instead of in the back against the firewall...

and about the 2 month comment... I agree.. its a long wait... but it'll be worth it.. once they clear up all of the production issues then they will be selling this kit in full force just like the tiburon v6 kits that they have had so much good luck with...

:)


TO answer the question about the PSC digital tuner..

it is basically the same thing as the SAFCII except that it has some unique features...

#1. it has a built-in 2 bar map sensor that can be used instead of the stock unit...
#2. it can be programmed to work as a signal generator that works off of a static map instead of using any map sensor at all.. ( i dont need this feature however it can do this).
#3. it can be programmed to simulate any 0-5v sensor on the car such as the MAP, MAF or TPS sensors based on a 3d map..
#4. it can work as a signal intercepter just like the SAFC so it can modify the stock map sensor readings ....
:)

[FordFasteRR]

This is one long *** thread...

now 1 post longer ;)


thanks for whoring it up for us :)

[azwildfire]

Hey Ford,

does that split second item come with the equipment to laptop program it also?

i would be interested in buying one. can you PM me details n such?


Thanks!

[only1db]

well that is cheaper then doing a safc...i still dont know what it does though....

[FordFasteRR]

well that is cheaper then doing a safc...i still dont know what it does though....


it does the same thing as a safc.

and yes, it comes with the software for the laptop computer so you can program it.

The major difference between this device and the safc is that this unit includes a built-in 2 bar map sensor ... and you do not get a heads-up display ... so to the safc is better in regards to " ease-of-use" because you dont need laptop for it...


:)

[only1db]

so you would need a laptop to work this thing?? ...that sucks!

[azwildfire]

ppsssttt ford... i dont have a PM yet!!!

btw wouldnt this thing be similar to doing this mod with the SAFC http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119890

[FordFasteRR]

yes, except this retains the tps input.

so you get boost, tps, rpm inputs to tune by...

if you do the safc mod, you lose the ability to monitor tps levels... but you gain the ability to control fuel via boost........ which is better.

:)

update:


I just spoke to alpine... they said the kit is completely ready to ship out.. they will be packing it this afternoon... He said that I will have it by next week.

:) !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OdessitPashka]

great news!!!

[only1db]

OMG!!! i cant wait!!

[slow 2K2GT]

about time this thread is 18 pages long and we have gotten next to nowhere. :D

[OdessitPashka]

hopefully we will get some pictures this week!!!!

[only1db]

hopefully...this as been long and coming....and we are not even getting it ford is!!

[th003g]

seems like just yesterday me and ford were discussing the pro's and cons of s/c vs turbo... its been over a month lol...

[FordFasteRR]

well, if the turbo was as easy to install as the blower then I would have the turbo ! LOL


:)

[dj4monie]

I posted some info on the Focaljet boards almost 2 years ago and guess what?

They are getting over 200hp at the wheels from their Zetec JRSC kits based around the earlier Eaton M45 supercharger.

I would suggest you go over to the Focalject Forum and read the JRSC FAQ they had over there.

To get more than say 10psi you might need to change both your blower pulley and crank pulley. Both Foci and Hondas have to do this, I don't see what would make the Elantra's Beta engine any different.

The extra heat isn't that much of an issue under 12psi with the M45. If Alpine kit is using the newest 4th gen design, then it could be a higher threshold.

I know at least 4 people with either a ported blower housing or water injection under boost get 14psi from the M45 and well over 200hp with a free flowing exhaust, stock head and camshafts.

So everybody can speculate all you want, the fact remains this blower doesn't come alive until you push on it. If you run it under 10psi without any help from the engine like a ported hear or more aggressive cams, you'll be disapointed.

That's based on what I have seen with engine all around the same output and displacement. Only GM's DOHC/Quad 4 is larger at 2.4L and the results are about the same.

If you wanna make power with this blower, throw away the stock pulley....

As for the fuel system -

Doesn't REAL offer reprograming???

You can install a larger Walbro 190lph pump and larger injectors for MAP controlled cars

For MAF, just get a larger MAF sensor, fuel pump and injectors, pretty simple

You can use a Super AFC, but it doesn't detect boost and their in lies the "Rub"

I would spend a little more and go with a solid state solution rather than piggy-backs if I was going to increase boost more than the stock fuel system can handle.

I don't see why you can't make at least 220-230hp with the blower, bolt-ons, stock bottom end....

Good Luck on your Blower install Ford..

[BlueRush]

How is the blower install going anyway Ford

[OdessitPashka]

I don't think he's got it yet.

[FordFasteRR]

I just got off the phone with them..

They are still sorting out some problems.

Apparently, they did not realize that the 03 xd has the air temp sensor built-into the map sensor unit... this creates a major problem because of their placement of the map sensor...

since they place the map sensor on the boost side of the manifold, it will read boost & the heated boost air charge... that in turn will result in the ecu trimming fuel & timing... that is not a good thing..

So they are designing a work-around to correct the problem, such as wiring a J2 elantra air temp sensor and placing it on the intake side and then splicing it back to the stock harness..

They also had another major problem...

When they fitted the idle control valve onto the blower manifold, it interefered with the TPS. So they had to fabricate a spacer plate that relocates the IAC valve at a different angle so that it does not interfere with the TPS.

Anyhow, they promised to send me pics of the blower mocked up on a spare engine they have... Hopefully that'll keep me out of their hair for a few more days / maybe a few more weeks :(

DARN IT !

[CTele02]

So how much are paying for them to f-up this much?

[Keyan]

You would think when they put a part up for sale, that's it's READY.


It's like they're still designing the freakin thing.

[FordFasteRR]

alot.

but when they are done... i'll be boosting 8 psi and making 200 hp :)

[CTele02]

And when it does work youd better post a DIY cuz a lot of us would want 200hp as well :)

[dmdicks]

In my experience dealing with Alpine they tend to step in the mud before checking how deep it is. Part of the problem is that the BetaII supercharger kit was designed and fabricated in South Africa but it was never actually installed on a working engine, so bugs were not worked out, which is bad.
Ford, your basically the first person in the US of A to soon get a working prototype of the kit. The IAT problem is interesting due to the fact that in my Turbo charged setup it doesn't seem to be causing a problem. That may be due to my air being intercooled though, so the temp increase isn't as high.
I know you talk with John and Allister a lot so you know they are stand up guys and I'm 100% positive you'll be satisfied with your results. Another problem is that US Alpine consists of like 5 people total, so they stretch themselves too thin sometimes.
Oh, one last thing. In SEMA Alpine had discussions with Perfect Power to start offering their SMT-6 line of PiggyBacks as a substitution for the Unichip. Unichip was supposed to have a new model coming out for the past several years but it hasn't materialized. Something you may want to mention when you talk to them next. :-)

[only1db]

that would be badass to get the smt-6!!

[FordFasteRR]

I'm getting kind of tired of waiting..

Now i'm having 2nd thoughts... Should I just have them ship me the turbo kit instead ?

What do you all think ?

[Keyan]

If you back out of the supercharger now...

You might have to have the entire process repeated again.

So close to it being done Ford, don't give up now! :)

[FordFasteRR]

i know, its so close... but the thought of double the power from the turbo is sooooo tempting !

also, I have devised a way to run the oil return back to the valve cover without drilling the oil pan LOL

It will take me just a few hours to install it with minimal effort... lol

[mrhoaf]

I guess you need to go back through the reasons you went for the SC in the first place.... weigh the pros and cons again....

I know you good reasons you picked the SC before... see if they still apply... don't just cave in and regret it later....

[OdessitPashka]

NO. stay with supercharger!!!!! You are not allowed to back out this time!!! thats it!!!

[ilanpro]

Now thats bull you dish out 3K and they make you wait this f%$# long. The hyundai curse strikes again

[FordFasteRR]

well I for now i'm gonna stick with the blower idea...

we'll see how it goes. :(

[OdessitPashka]

ford, I really want you to get that thing make 200whp instantly like a sc should work!!! just go for it man!!!

[CTele02]

well 3k for about 40-60whp is the best deal you can get besides a turbo that is more likely to fail or nos that'll last you a minute... Getting that power increase is already tough enough when going N/A. I mean you currently have 130whp (a 15-20whp gain) abouts and how much money and time did it take? By the way a S/C functions i think it is a "safer" way to boost the engine that wasn't meant to be boosted..

[FordFasteRR]

........ By the way a S/C functions i think it is a "safer" way to boost the engine that wasn't meant to be boosted..


turbo has a slower onset of boost than blower.. so it will produce less stress on the engine at low rpms..

however, a blower kicks in fast and loads the engine more..

a turbo can produce MORE BOOST than a blower so it will put more stress on the engine at mid - high rpms than a blower..

the blower doesnt make peek boost until like 4000 rpms or more... because boost is a function of engine rpm .. on a turbo, peek boost is reached at like 3500-4000 rpms and stays there until redline...

lol... crazy tossup ! LOL

[Elantra2.001]

Screw the supercharger and buy my turbo!

[SWortham]

The low-end boost curve of a roots blower is much more impressive than a turbo or a centrifugal supercharger. Ford, you said it's going to make peak boost at 4K rpm's? I thought it would peak much lower than that.

[FordFasteRR]

i dont know exactly what rpm the peek boost will come in...

but boost comes in fast on a blower setup...

again, the boost is a function of engine rpm since the blower is driven by the crank...

a 3000 rpm launch will be almost full-on boost launch.. talk about tire shreding ! LOL

[ilanpro]

So what is Alpine saying about the fact that they lied to you when the said it was shipping??

[SWortham]

i dont know exactly what rpm the peek boost will come in...

but boost comes in fast on a blower setup...


OK, the reason I asked was because of this:
The roots type supercharger is known for its ability to produce large amounts of boost while spinning at very low speeds. On an automotive application, a roots type supercharger can often make it's full (peak) boost by 2000 engine rpm. This characteristic has contributed to its success and popularity on the top fuel racing circuit and has made it ideal for use on smaller 4 and 6 cylinder engines that traditionally struggle in the lower half of the rpm range (and is why Jackson Racing uses a roots type Eaton compressor).
http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=22

[FordFasteRR]

So what is Alpine saying about the fact that they lied to you when the said it was shipping??

I have not confronted them about that.

I don't want to get on their bad side when I don't even have the blower yet.

[CTele02]

Well as long as the thing works and lasts I'd be satisfied. But take note on any malfunctions, in completeness or "cheapness" being sold to you. And you can bring that up with them if you ever want a refund. Because I'm sure they don't want bad feedback on one of their first elantra s/c. Since how could someone trust them with $3k to make any other performance product if they are selling it while it is incomplete and not tested... But who knows... they should be trained engineers in this department, more so than any of us. So still give them a "buffer" zone to screw up until you actually receive it.

[2GTS]

So what is Alpine saying about the fact that they lied to you when the said it was shipping??
I think that saying he was lied to is a little much. Remember this is basically a prototype for the Beta II. The way I see it, Alpine tried to meet the ship date they provided and discovered a problem and instead of just shipping it anyway they are fixing the problem before providing the kit to a customer. That sounds like pretty good service to me, not sure why some of you guys are getting the panties in a bunch. I'd rather have the product come late and work instead of getting it on time and dealing with the problems for a couple weeks after an attempted install.

[FordFasteRR]

i was under the impression that they have already prototyped but apparently not.

my kit will be the prototype. ... hahaha

[Keyan]

So basically, you funded them the money to attempt to build a blower for the XD. :)


For all that you've been waiting, they should come to your house, install it, and warrenty your entire engine for life! haha! :)

[azwildfire]

on my 2001 rodeo that had an alpine S/C kit, peak boost was 6 psi... it would hit 4 PSI at 600 rpms and hit full 6 PSI around 1800 RPMS and stay there till redline

just my 2 cents

[SWortham]

on my 2001 rodeo that had an alpine S/C kit, peak boost was 6 psi... it would hit 4 PSI at 600 rpms and hit full 6 PSI around 1800 RPMS and stay there till redline

just my 2 cents

That's more like it. :)

[ilanpro]

on my 2001 rodeo that had an alpine S/C kit, peak boost was 6 psi... it would hit 4 PSI at 600 rpms and hit full 6 PSI around 1800 RPMS and stay there till redline

just my 2 cents

what year rodeo you have??

[SWortham]

what year rodeo you have??

Umm.... 2001 ;)

[ilanpro]

:redface: I missed that

[FordFasteRR]

WOW !

I wish my blower setup will be like that !!

HAHAHAA

[only1db]

yeah ford no backing out of this!! you MUST get it!!

[azwildfire]

www.azwildfire.com/isuzu

i was the first US alpine customer :P

in some of the photos you can see the first supercharged hyundai they did and the first turboed hyundai they did after they installed the kit on my car

my website was down for a while *cusses at yahoo* but it is all better now

[ilanpro]

www.azwildfire.com/isuzu

i was the first US alpine customer :P

in some of the photos you can see the first supercharged hyundai they did and the first turboed hyundai they did after they installed the kit on my car

my website was down for a while *cusses at yahoo* but it is all better now
How hard was it to install???

[FordFasteRR]

Well i'm gonna hold out for the blower.


:(

[azwildfire]

if you read any threads on any boards about people who have installed supercharger s... typically they are only as hard to install as removing and re installing your intake manifold...

the rest is just tuning and such... unichip comes pre tuned, but i personaly dont like the idea of a chip you have to take to a special magical dealer to tune

[FordFasteRR]

if you read any threads on any boards about people who have installed supercharger s... typically they are only as hard to install as removing and re installing your intake manifold...

the rest is just tuning and such... unichip comes pre tuned, but i personaly dont like the idea of a chip you have to take to a special magical dealer to tune



agreed. That is one of the reasons that I chose to go with a blower instead of a turbo.

____________________

update:

I just wanted to point out something else that alpine told me... I dont know if i posted this earlier but here it is anyway..

Their custom manifold locates the stock map sensor on the boost side. They encountered a problem with this setup because the 01-03 map sensor has an integrated temp (IAT) sensor. When the boosted air goes past the IAT the ecu will think its extremely hot and it will pull fuel & timing.... THIS IS NOT A GOOD MIX FOR A BLOWER SETUP !! LOL


so they are devising a way to correct the problem by installing an 01 i4 tiburon / elantra IAT sensor. Basically they will clip the wires on the stock iat sensor and patch in the beta 1 iat sensor and place it on the non-boost side of the blower... I dont know if it'll end up on the tb side housing or if they will expect me to mount it directly to my intake but either way it will fix the problem and keep the ECU running nice and rich ! :)

[cclngthr]

Wouldn't it be easier to put the existing MAP sensor on the non-boosted end?

[NorthernYankee]

No you need the MAP to detect the pressure after the S/C

[FordFasteRR]

No you need the MAP to detect the pressure after the S/C


exactly.

the map sensor output signal is actually intercepted by the Unichip fuel controller..

this allows it to monitor boost levels & clamp the signal output so the ecu never reads boost ! :)

NO CEL as a result ! :)

________________________________
update:

I just got off the phone with alpine...

They gave me an updated and I asked about the IAT sensor mod they were doing and they said they fixed the problem another way and that it works fine at this point... :)

I suppose they used the unichip to tune out the fuel cut & the timing reduction wouldnt really hurt because that just makes it run more reliably under boost... :) ( less chance to ping ) ...

:)

___________________________
update:

People, check this out... this i4 tib owner turboed his ride.. its an automatic...

with 5 psi of boost he went from 118 whp to 160 whp... not bad !

http://www.newtiburon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28564

Also, there is lots of interesting information on this thread, & I posted some boost math that will really get your boost juices flowing ! :) HAHAHA

[2GTS]

More interesting info about the guy boosting at 5psi on NT.com http://www.newtiburon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28768

[FordFasteRR]

wow, his motor blew up at just 5 psi..

I dont know the details ( they have not posted it yet ) but I also don't know what this guys fuel system upgrades were..

to run boost you definately need to have the system tuned properly... That is why reading those boost books help you so much because they teach you how to design a fuel system capable of supporting the modified engine under boost...

I guess time will tell... :)

I'm not sure but I think this guy had a speed-factor turbo kit ?

Anyhow, i went back and read the thread... he said his engine grenaded, parts flew out of it in every direction..

There is definately SOMETHING wrong with his tuning for this to happen...

[ilanpro]

Check this out

http://www.theautochannel.com/N/N/news/2004/10/19/257049.2-lg.jpg

The add-on was designed and plumped in by Alpine developments, a southern California based turbo and supercharger specialist, whose South African president, John Conichie, has spent thirty years in the business. He explained that the kit wasn’t too complicated to install and could even be further enhanced. The blower raises the output of in-line four cylinder DOHC unit from 138 bhp @ 6,000 rpm, developing 136 lb-ft. @ 4,500 Torque to approx 200 horsepower and 175 ft.-lbs. of torque. Of course the car felt much more responsive through the gears than the normally aspirated Spectra 5. The power delivery was smooth and constant right up to red line, although once up there it is a little noisy and harsh.

Eaton MP-45 Supercharger running 7 psi
• Unichip fuel management system
• Custom stainless steel catback exhaust
• Approx. 200 horsepower and 175 ft.-lbs. of torque


I know for a fact that they used the 5th injector on this set up

[CTele02]

That guy got :owned: Well I think he did go "custom" on his setup, while you're using an already tested product so you'll be fine (as long as you're insured... probably impossible with a boosted car) or does Alpine have a warranty?

[2GTS]

He did it pretty half assed, doing some of the install himself, some by a shop. He drove the car untuned for a bit. If you read about all the stuff he did it's pretty clear he didn't really know what he was doing and should have just bought the Alpine turbo kit.

[FordFasteRR]

I think that people who plan to do a turbo project on their own should spend a long time planning even more time reading about how the turbo works and how to tune it properly...

this kind of problem can usually be avoided with proper knoledge & tuning, however there are cases where the engine is just weak and the turbo finishes it off quickly ( regardless of how well its tuned ) ..




my theory on what happened to his motor...

#1. his old turbo blew up, spewed a bunch of oil into the intake and that oil went down into the cylinders... it hydro-locked one or two of the cylinders and bent his rods...

#2. he replaced the defective turbo and then tuned the car properly on a dyno via a shop..

#3. after a few days of boosting, the damaged rods gave way..

voila, blown motor.

[SWortham]

It could be what you said.

But it seems like the root of this kind of problem is frequently related to the ECU. Sometimes the ECU doesn't react how you'd expect to your fuel tuning devices. And you drive the car with a little too much confidence thinking everything is fine... but the engine has occasional hiccups. Then one day the engine detonates in a big way. This is why carbureted engines are better. :tongue: j/k.

I'm thinking you shouldn't have to deal with this problem with your supercharger, Ford. The fuel delivery should be a little more reliable from a designed & tested kit.

[cclngthr]

Carborated engines are much easier to tune and alter the fuel/air curves than injected cars, but, injected cars will respond better to the boost if the ecu is programmed right. On my truck, which has a boosted engine, I do not get the rapid throttle response if I had it injected, since it has dual quads on it. It is quick, but there is a slight delay on the throttle response.

I still recommend a full rebuild to keep the engine stable. Forged pistons, rods and bigger cams and crank will make it last.

As for the Hyundai ECU, the trick is to get it retuned or replaced.

[FordFasteRR]

........

As for the Hyundai ECU, the trick is to get it retuned or replaced.



nonononono.

the alpine system uses a stand alone fuel management system.

it does not depend on the oem ecu to adjust fuel curves...

it controls fuel on its own based on tps, rpm & boost pressure.

it has been dyno tuned and tested for extended intervals and there should be no unexpected problems....

and even if there is... i dont think it will lead to catastrophic failure.........


:)

[cclngthr]

However, does this standalone fuel management system have any compatability issues with the stock ecu? I have heard they can be some problems with compatability and having the system read things incorrectly. If the ecu reads the exhaust gasses as incorrect and throws a CEL (which will cause the ecu to go into limp home mode) the engine will not be able to operate at peak performance.

I think by replacing the ecu with one that has the tuning for a boosted engine is better than piggybacking. Once you alter the fuel and air mix, you do alter other things in the engine (particularly exhaust gasses).

[techcontib]

The Unichip is a Piggy back. But it one of the best piggy backs you can get. The main draw back of course is a qualified distibuter(spelling) is able to tune them. Thats why not many people use them. It does use it own maps during open loop. If I remember correctly I might have that backwards. And if I remember correctly it also can control ign timing. I have no issues with the Unichip no cel's or anything. Its been over a year know.

[cclngthr]

The problem with piggybacking is if it can control the fuel well enough to keep the ECU happy which also controls the emission control system, which the piggyback unichip does not have anything to do with. You have 2 separate systems which must have the ability to work identically/same. If the fuel management system is unable to get the mixture right and the ecu can't get the emissions at stock level, problems will occur, both in drivability but also mechanically (a bad running engine does not last long).

[th003g]

did ya get it yet?! dang.... lol

[FordFasteRR]

did ya get it yet?! dang.... lol



NO >:(



.

[jeffv1970]

Ford,
I think they owe you something for this long azz wait.
I know they are trying to fix things on it. But damm didn't there R&D think of these things. They are starting to make me thing they the engineers from nasa that can build a shuttle or boosters. You have been more than patient with them, and for that i give you mad props. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[DocRxGLS]

Have they at least given you a new time frame yet Ford?

[FordFasteRR]

Have they at least given you a new time frame yet Ford?


they give me a time frame every time i call... they just failed to meet their estimates...

I'll keep everyone posted on the next update I get.... I think they are very close to shipping it out.

_____________________________

update...

I'm getting tired of waiting...

I might have to just cancel the order and ask for a refund.. lol

I don't know for sure.

[Keyan]

Or ask for a big-*** discount...

I mean, your money out-of-pocket that you didn't have access to, but you didn't get anything? ("I could have just given you the money now instead of 2 months ago but I still wouldn't have it...I should get something over someone else paying now would get!!")

[FordFasteRR]

Or ask for a big-*** discount...

I mean, your money out-of-pocket that you didn't have access to, but you didn't get anything? ("I could have just given you the money now instead of 2 months ago but I still wouldn't have it...I should get something over someone else paying now would get!!")


I have not fully decided yet.

I'm gonna think it over for 10 minutes and let you know. lol

:(

[tharptroy]

man, looks like I might have to pick it up if ford backs out...someone needs to get one of these damned systems

[FordFasteRR]

ok i just got off the phone with alpine ...

they are almost done working on it now and they assured me that it will ship out next week..

So i'm gonna wait another week and see what happens :)

[CTele02]

But aren't they based in south africa?.... so if they ship week... you'll see it prolly 2 weeks after that with regular mail.

[ilanpro]

the better overnight that **** to you man

[mrhoaf]

AH.... Patience Grasshopper........

I know it sucks to wait, but at least you know you're dealing with a company with a good reputation that will deliver the product to you, and not some guy making it in his own garage that could "dissapear" with your money.

I think your patience will be rewarded...... but it sure does suck to have to wait...

[ilanpro]

I hope it sounds as good as the V6 tib

[FordFasteRR]

their manufacturing facilities are in SA, however they are developing my kit in their California facility :)

[Gomez]

You can't blame Alpine for taking a long time. They're protecting their interests. If Ford gets his S/C and it doesn't install and work properly, or at worst ruins his car, then Alpine probably just screwed themselves out of anyone else on this site ever buying a S/C from them. If it works great then Alpine may have 3 or 4 more sales from EXD members.
I would be frustrated with the wait, but at the same time encouraged that it will install and work without incident. Although if it takes any longer I would start to worry, it's been two friggin' months for christ's sake.

[KeWLKaT]

Yep, I agree. It's Ford's dyno sheets (which I'm SURE he will run) that will definately make me cut the line between buying myself either a S/C or a turbo... :) You go, Ford!

[FordFasteRR]

Yep, I agree. It's Ford's dyno sheets (which I'm SURE he will run) that will definately make me cut the line between buying myself either a S/C or a turbo... :) You go, Ford!


You can bet your life on it.

:)

[KeWLKaT]

wait... I just noticed. They're ''developping'' your kit? As in, it's the first one ever to be made?

[FordFasteRR]

wait... I just noticed. They're ''developping'' your kit? As in, it's the first one ever to be made?


yes.. i thought they had already developed the kit when i ordered it but i was wrong.

they've actually designed some new technology in the process of making my kit which will be incorporated into future supercharger kits...

I cant get into all of the details until I get the kit and take pics of it but you guys will be surprised :)

Lets just say that the efficiency on this kit is so high that they had to slow the blower down because it was making so much boost due to their manifold design... :)

its gonna ROCK !!!!!!!!!

[only1db]

yeah its been awhile...but if they had to slow it down...that means when you get it you can speed it back up!!

[FordFasteRR]

exactly... In the future, when I decide to up the boost... I can use the decompression head gasket & then run the smaller blower pulley and hit 10 + psi without even pushing the blower !!!


:)

& at 10 psi I should be near 220 + whp !! :) SHWEEET ! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[only1db]

10 psi!! damn....that is going to be sweet

[KeWLKaT]

nice. i will surely want to hear news about this one

[slow 2K2GT]

10 PSI should make 220+HP, by this you dont mean WHP right? Dmdicks is boosting 15PSI and hitting 250, I imagine that 10 PSI should get you to 200HP. But that is just me, im a "the glass is half empty" guy so I dont get let down by high hopes. But dynos will tell the whole story

[tharptroy]

ford, chew on this....based on basic calculations, at TDC, the piston forces 494cc of air/fuel into an area that is about 49cc.

removing relatively little material inside the combustion chamber in the right places will not only yield lower compression, but it will also allow you to maintain tight quench clearance...giving you the mechanical octane you need to stop detonation. I think thats your best bet if you arent replacing your pistons.

not to mention the fact that your head will flow better when its done, giving you a source for more power =)

[FordFasteRR]

ford, chew on this....based on basic calculations, at TDC, the piston forces 494cc of air/fuel into an area that is about 49cc.

removing relatively little material inside the combustion chamber in the right places will not only yield lower compression, but it will also allow you to maintain tight quench clearance...giving you the mechanical octane you need to stop detonation. I think thats your best bet if you arent replacing your pistons.

not to mention the fact that your head will flow better when its done, giving you a source for more power =)

head will flow better ?

do you mean by porting ?

Elaborate on this for me... :)

[2GTS]

I don't see how the head will flow better if you're just working on the combustion chambers and not changing the valves or porting the whole head.

[tharptroy]

well...of course you're going to have a valve job done....and they might as well work the ports a little while they're at it =)

I guess I thought you guys were reading my mind... if I were doing it, I would be having the chambers re-worked as a part of head porting...shouldnt run more than $1200

[ilanpro]

Alpine needs a SC on their operations :D :owned1:

[only1db]

i would rather have it done right then get it not have it work right!....but hey thats just me

[tharptroy]

damn ford, Im looking at my head, and I dont see many places to remove material without affecting the quench pads

[FordFasteRR]

damn ford, Im looking at my head, and I dont see many places to remove material without affecting the quench pads

then I suggest you leave the bowls alone... spend your time working on the intake ports.

Even alpine has complained to me about the small size of the beta2 head.. i've been told that the inlet port diameter is even lower than from the beta1...

I say, knife-edge the divider on each inlet port & port the opening itself to half of the distance to the gasket... then, measure it to match up exactly with the intake manifold (hopefully that has been ported too)... dont forget to remove the " HUMP " on the inlet ports of the cyl head :)

Take lots of pics .. before & after ... :)


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GTtuner]

Is there anybody you trust for head work to our cars in the Broward area?

[FordFasteRR]

hmm... I say , take it to Next Generation Motorsports.

They are just a few minutes from my house and they are trust-worthy.

Also, if you bring me the head, I can do the porting for you :)

[tharptroy]

I donno ford, I dont mind messing with manifolds at this point (since I have 3 including the one on my car) but I'll have to have the valvejob done by a professional anyway, almost makes sense to have them do everything.

[FordFasteRR]

I donno ford, I dont mind messing with manifolds at this point (since I have 3 including the one on my car) but I'll have to have the valvejob done by a professional anyway, almost makes sense to have them do everything.


i dont think a 3 angle valve job will make much diff ..

I say, for the most affordable power mod, keep the stock valve guides & seals..

What I plan to do is easy..

plug the ports on the inlet side to prevent any porting debris from getting stuck in the valve guides or seats..

Then, mask tape the valve springs to keep any dirt from getting between the springs / tappets / seals..

port out each inlet port & remove the hump, knife edge the port divider and then clean it up with a finer grit wheel.. then hand sand it until its nice and smooth..

remove all of the tape & paper ... use brake parts cleaner to remove any possible remaining debris and then install the head onto the car..

I would say, that is the easiest way to go about a quick and easy performance head port job..

:)

[tharptroy]

"The most important areas to work for flow are all in the valve seat area. You can make damned near any port flow 90-95% of a fully worked configuration, by doing only the chamber, the seats and 3/4" into the ports. The ports' entries and exits may be the easiest stuff to reach and slick-up, but those parts really don't mean anything when it comes to flow."

I think you'll find that most head porters with flow benches would agree with this.

[FordFasteRR]

dammit.. i think you are right.

but i can see that at least a 1 to 5% increase in power just by doing what I described above...

from doing a full bowl job and all the other nick-nacks you can most likely see an additional 1to 5% increase in power...

[dmdicks]

I have my spare cylinder head at local port/polisher right now. He hasn't worked a Hyundai cyl head before but he is giving it a try. He's mainly done Mitsu, Honda, and BMW heads. He's a nice guy with a clean shop. He recently worked a BMW Mini Cooper S head and that car is now putting down 246WHP! Out of a 1.6L..
Included in his price is a complete before and after digital pic album with before and after flowbench numbers. On top of that he guarantees at most a 1.5wk turnaround time. As soon as I get the head back I'll post his pics and flow numbers. Then I'll install it and dyno my turbo'd tib which has a current baseline of 242WHP & 281WTQ. :D

[only1db]

do you have lsd in that thing??? if not you better get one!!

[FordFasteRR]

do you have lsd in that thing??? if not you better get one!!


good idea if he could beef up the synchros.. i've read that if you add an lsd to a stock trans it will speed up the wear on the synchros and the trans will not last anywhere near as long as it would without it..

:)

however, i dont know of anyone who has used no on a beta trans so i'm talking out of my butt here. :) :phone: :redface:

[slow 2K2GT]

Lets rename this thread to "Hopes and Dreams" because thats all Alpine is giving us.

[mtvslick]

who sells this unit?

Mark,

[2GTS]

who sells this unit?

Mark,
Read the first 22 pages and all your answers will appear.

[only1db]

you can always get your syncros cryo'd!....then it would almost be indestructable! muahahahamuhahhh

[FordFasteRR]

you can always get your syncros cryo'd!....then it would almost be indestructable! muahahahamuhahhh

WOW ! I didn't know that you could do that to synchros ! LOL

Well, I say... " IF " it will help to make them last under the greater load of a higher power diff then by all means..

but we are talking about a full tear-down & rebuild of the trans.. just doubled the cost of the LSD.

[Elantra2.001]

Synchros arent nearly as weak as the diff. Onpol was running 350 horses with stock axles, diff, and tranny. The diff blew on the line, sent all power to one axle and snapped that. 5th gear is really the only concern.

[FordFasteRR]

I just got a call from ALPINE !! WOO HOOO !!!

The boss-man himself called me, he said that the kit is shipping out this week and that he is sending me pictures of the blower on a mock-up engine that they have in the shop..

I'll be sure to post the pics up when he sends them hopefully tomorrow !!!

[Keyan]

Hey ford, is this a complete bolt on system or are you gonna have to rip open the head to lower the compression ratio...and if not, will you have to do it when you decide to up the boost?

[FordFasteRR]

Hey ford, is this a complete bolt on system or are you gonna have to rip open the head to lower the compression ratio...

This is a 100% bolt-on system that requires no internal engine modifications.


....and if not, will you have to do it when you decide to up the boost?


If i want to up the boost, I have many options to make the system work properly..

A. I can use bigger injectors.
B. I can add a water / alcohol injection system.
C. I can install lower compression pistons.
D. I can install the head spacer from alpine or a thicker head gasket.
E. I can combine any / and all of the items above.

:) :abovelol:

[Keyan]

Lol, sorry, just needed to refresh my memory, it's been what? 23 forum pages and 3+ months in real time? God, and to think it was only supposed to take 2 or 3 weeks.

[evan938]

This is a 100% bolt-on system that requires no internal engine modifications.





If i want to up the boost, I have many options to make the system work properly..

A. I can use bigger injectors.
B. I can add a water / alcohol injection system.
C. I can install lower compression pistons.
D. I can install the head spacer from alpine or a thicker head gasket.
E. I can combine any / and all of the items above.

:) :abovelol:

if you use lower compression pistons and a head gasket, wont that lower the compression too much? if you wanna boost high, i think forged low comp pistons would be more than enough

[techcontib]

How many times they said there going to send it sometime this week.lol If John called you himself its probably a good sign.

[Keyan]

Well Ford, was it shipped by the 8th like the boss-man said? :rolleyes: ;)

[FordFasteRR]

I dont know for sure, no tracking #'s or e-mails yet.
and no pictures.

[Pumbaa]

Damn this is taking to long. Feels like KORE or SR situation. LOL I'm getting the same issues with my KONI suspension R&D... Damn I hope you get it soon, I want to see this supercharger work.

[dmdicks]

I'm working with Alpine to get this kit shipped as fast as I can. It appears that there are a TON of differences between the BetaI and II Intake systems as well as a lot of differences between the Kia BetaII and Hyundai BetaII Intake manifold. I talk to John, the owner, regularly and I thought he told me it was shipped last week but I talked to him again last night and they ran into another snag with the Intake Manifold support brackets so they fabbed some new ones up for the kit and he assured me it will be shipped this week.
Trust me guys, I'm pulling every string I have with Alpine to get the ever patient Ford his kit. The main problem is Alpine thought the BetaII S/C they designed for the Kia Spectra would bolt on to the XD. It does not...so they are having to re-prototype the whole kit for the XD setup.

[cclngthr]

I'm working with Alpine to get this kit shipped as fast as I can. It appears that there are a TON of differences between the BetaI and II Intake systems as well as a lot of differences between the Kia BetaII and Hyundai BetaII Intake manifold. I talk to John, the owner, regularly and I thought he told me it was shipped last week but I talked to him again last night and they ran into another snag with the Intake Manifold support brackets so they fabbed some new ones up for the kit and he assured me it will be shipped this week.
Trust me guys, I'm pulling every string I have with Alpine to get the ever patient Ford his kit. The main problem is Alpine thought the BetaII S/C they designed for the Kia Spectra would bolt on to the XD. It does not...so they are having to re-prototype the whole kit for the XD setup.

I notice that Hyundai and Kia use one-off engines (so to speak). It appears the engine is a specialty item for each car. Instead of using the same block for several cars, Hyundai/Kia use an engine designed only for 1 car. The 1.6, 2.0 and 2.4 liter engines used on Hyundai's are made from separate block designs, which complicate performance mods quite a bit.

Only if they used the same design on engines...

[CTele02]

The main problem is Alpine thought the BetaII S/C they designed for the Kia Spectra would bolt on to the XD. It does not...so they are having to re-prototype the whole kit for the XD setup.

The REAL main problem is that they made a S/C for the Spectra before the Elantra !!!!!!!!!! :mad: :bang: :angryfire :wtf:

[dmdicks]

The BetaII engines in the Kia and Hyundai are identical. The only difference between the two is the Intake Manifold design. Kia seem to be more abundant in South Africa due to the price, so that's what Alpine did its initial prototyping on thinking since the engines were the same the IMs would be the same.

[cclngthr]

The BetaII engines in the Kia and Hyundai are identical. The only difference between the two is the Intake Manifold design. Kia seem to be more abundant in South Africa due to the price, so that's what Alpine did its initial prototyping on thinking since the engines were the same the IMs would be the same.

However, from what I've seen, there are enough differences in the engine to make it a one-off. This includes the intake and exhaust manifolds.

[Pumbaa]

LOL, me and Jay were just discussing this on my KONI suspension topic. KONI is now working on developing adjustable struts for the Kia Spectra5. They recieved struts from Kia of Canada. They will be using those struts and the Tibby inserts to test fit the Elantra GLS/GT. Kinda sucks because KONI says back in Sept, that they never even considered the Elantra. I think what is comes down to is the manufactures. Hyundai has a car they are marketing to the tuner market. The Tib. Kia doesn't have such a beautiful car so they are marketing the Spectra5. So we get shafted in turn by our own manufacturer. But we get lucky because of the cross over of the 2 other vehicles.

sorry off topic. :mad:

[ilanpro]

I say Fordfasterr Get your $$ back and get some interest on it, while they build this kit, Or just go buy a Turbo Kit, that is already in the market. I hate the Run around crap. :lame: just my .02

[FordFasteRR]

I just spoke to alpine... they are now fixing the injector angle.. apparently their test manifold had the wrong angle on it because their test car was the kia.. anyway.. they sent the manifold to the machine shop to have the injector bosses re-drilled to the right angle..

Also, Alpine will be sending me both the 8 psi pulley and the 10 psi pulley :)

sweet. :)

[ilanpro]

Did they give you a time frame??

I hate to see you wait like this.

[cclngthr]

I think if Ford waits a bit longer, he will get a product with no problems. Since Alpine appears to be ironing out the problems while they have it, they want to sell a product that works without having a slew of issues after they produce it.

Once I see how Ford does his engine, I plan on doing a similar mod.

[Keyan]

Ever notice they only find ONE problem with it before shipping....then when they fix that, suddenly there's ANOTHER SINGLE problem with it?

****, I just want them to give you the WHOLE LIST of what's wrong with it.

[cclngthr]

I think it is good that Alpine is taking the time to figure out the issues regarding a product they are selling before anyone gets it. This way, they won't have problems later on.

[FordFasteRR]

I think it is good that Alpine is taking the time to figure out the issues regarding a product they are selling before anyone gets it. This way, they won't have problems later on.

That is exactly what Alpine tells me on the phone. They will not ship the kit until they are 100% satisfied that the kit will fit properly and work properly..

Did you guys know that the test car they fitted the blower on currently has the alpine turbo kit ? thats right...


dual forced induction ! hahaha

[KeWLKaT]

It makes you wish their test car was yours... :D

[oregun]

Did you guys know that the test car they fitted the blower on currently has the alpine turbo kit ? thats right...
dual forced induction ! hahaha

I was just wondering if Alpine and considered/ tested this!!

[OdessitPashka]

you should get a turbo kit afterwards!!!

[techcontib]

That is exactly what Alpine tells me on the phone. They will not ship the kit until they are 100% satisfied that the kit will fit properly and work properly..

Did you guys know that the test car they fitted the blower on currently has the alpine turbo kit ? thats right...


dual forced induction ! hahaha

i think I have seen that car. It had a water cooled intercooler instead of a FMIC. They are giving a 8 psi and 10 psi pullys. How sweet is that. See if they will throw in a head spacer. the one that comes with the turbo kits. Unless you plan on running lower comp pistons.

[FordFasteRR]

i think I have seen that car. It had a water cooled intercooler instead of a FMIC. They are giving a 8 psi and 10 psi pullys. How sweet is that. See if they will throw in a head spacer. the one that comes with the turbo kits. Unless you plan on running lower comp pistons.


I will not be running the low comp pistons or the head spacer... There will not be enough boost to require lowering the compression...

However, If I end up using the 10 psi pulley, I might add a water injection system just to be on the safe side...

Lucky for me, there is a unichip tuning shop in north miami.. very close to where I live, so If i up the pulley, I'll take it to them to re-tune the unichip and thats it.

:)

[dmdicks]

That's one thing I'll give Alpine is that they try to be as thorough as possible, sometimes at the expense of delayed releases. Another thing to remember is the longer they take to ship something the less money they make.
I've talked to John about their dual setup and he wants to get around 450WHP outta it with new pistons and rods. Should be the fastest street driven Kia in the US.

[techcontib]

That's one thing I'll give Alpine is that they try to be as thorough as possible, sometimes at the expense of delayed releases. Another thing to remember is the longer they take to ship something the less money they make.
I've talked to John about their dual setup and he wants to get around 450WHP outta it with new pistons and rods. Should be the fastest street driven Kia in the US.
He asked me if I wanted to do that to my car all I would of have to do is buy the turbo kit. He would of tuned it for free. I didn't have a spare 3k sitting around.lol
I will not be running the low comp pistons or the head spacer... There will not be enough boost to require lowering the compression...

However, If I end up using the 10 psi pulley, I might add a water injection system just to be on the safe side...

Lucky for me, there is a unichip tuning shop in north miami.. very close to where I live, so If i up the pulley, I'll take it to them to re-tune the unichip and thats it.

:)

I am leaning more to running my NX kit to lower temps.lmao Just a few items I need first. I already have a NX kit at home collecting dust. ;)

[FordFasteRR]

He asked me if I wanted to do that to my car all I would of have to do is buy the turbo kit. He would of tuned it for free. I didn't have a spare 3k sitting around.lol


I am leaning more to running my NX kit to lower temps.lmao Just a few items I need first. I already have a NX kit at home collecting dust. ;)


do you mean you want to spray into the engine ? or over the intercooler ?

remember, using nitrous will NOT reduce your chance to detonate if you mix it with boost !!!!!!!!!!!!

[techcontib]

do you mean you want to spray into the engine ? or over the intercooler ?

remember, using nitrous will NOT reduce your chance to detonate if you mix it with boost !!!!!!!!!!!!

I am going to use it in conjuction. Right now the bracket that is used with mine I can not use a smaller pully cause it will cause the belts to touch. Unless John comes out with a bigger crank pully or John makes a different bracket for me. I am stuck at 4psi. But what I have talked with John about is using my nitrous for extra power. If I remember correctly my unichip can control nitrous as well which would be nice to run as a progressive system. Of course I would be using bigger injectors and better fuel pump and removing the 5th injector and better pistons cause I know these piston could not hold a 35 wet shot and 4psi at least not very long. ALthough I would like to try it once or twice on the dyno at Alpine. :D I know about not using as for eliminating detonation and am not that newbish. :) All of my tuning will be done by Alpine since there only 30 mins away lol. I just need to hurry up and get back to the states so I can cont. my project.

[FordFasteRR]

sweet @ just 30 minutes ?

why dont you swing by there and take some pics of my blower kit so I can finally see the damn thing ? LOL

[eLantrabumb]

it took me three days to read this entire post with all the replies. dang. good participation. I'm not a very fast reader. haha :( :tongue:

[techcontib]

sweet @ just 30 minutes ?

why dont you swing by there and take some pics of my blower kit so I can finally see the damn thing ? LOL
If I was in the states I would.lol You could probably email Jaws from Rdtiburon he doesn't live to far away either or even Fixer.

[only1db]

damn both pulleys uh?? thats good stuff...i wonder if they will give everybody else two pulleys! LOL

[FordFasteRR]

damn both pulleys uh?? thats good stuff...i wonder if they will give everybody else two pulleys! LOL

I suppose if anyone else has to wait 4 months for the blower he might...

:) :redface:

[only1db]

maybe they will give you the option and have the cpu pre programmed for the one you want.

[FordFasteRR]

I just got off the phone with alpine..

They are going to ship the blower tomorrow...

Allister also said he will be e-mailing me some pics of the blower mocked up on an engine they had... lets see if the pics finally get out to me ! LOL

[mrhoaf]

WHOO HOO!!!!! The countdown is on.... assuming it actually goes out tomorrow.....

[FordFasteRR]

here is a pic they sent me... thats the only one they said they have.

notice this engine has the blower & the turbo on @ the same time ! LOL

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/Hyun%20SC%20Beta2%20Mods%20006.jpg

[yevRPS]

could this be any more of a teaser picture?!

[jeffv1970]

Here's hoping you get it this time ford. It has been a long time coming.
You are most definetly the man when it comes to having patience.
Hey evan better get your turbo ready.

[OdessitPashka]

Finaly!!! those pictures look goooood :)

[techcontib]

There using a different bracket. My braket attaches with the motor mount. Notice a while back people talk wanting to know if there was enough space for an aquacooler. As they can see nope there sure isn't. How long Ford once you receive it are you going to be up and running.

[FordFasteRR]

There using a different bracket. My braket attaches with the motor mount. Notice a while back people talk wanting to know if there was enough space for an aquacooler. As they can see nope there sure isn't. How long Ford once you receive it are you going to be up and running.


I plan to install the blower the weekend immediately after it comes in.

Let me ask, what blower do you have ? can you take pics of it and post them on this thread please ?

Give me more details about it, what car do u have, when did you buy the blower, how much boost, how much power, dyno chart.. 1/4 mile times.. all that :)

[ilanpro]

here is a pic they sent me... thats the only one they said they have.

notice this engine has the blower & the turbo on @ the same time ! LOL

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/Hyun%20SC%20Beta2%20Mods%20006.jpg
How do they manage a timing belt??

[sed]

knowing ford about 10.3 seconds ^^

shawn :)

[FordFasteRR]

How do they manage a timing belt??


The timing belt goes in its normal location, its just that in that pic, it looks like there is no room for it but there is..

lol

[techcontib]

Its funny you seem to think I am lying but ok.

Do you need me to repost for the thousand time from differant boards and this very thread of the same pics over and over again. Or do need me to condense it to one post instead of a scattered post from differant pages.

[FordFasteRR]

Its funny you seem to think I am lying but ok.

Do you need me to repost for the thousand time from differant boards and this very thread of the same pics over and over again. Or do need me to condense it to one post instead of a scattered post from differant pages.


I dont think your lying you t3rd.. lol

The only person that I know of that has an alpine blower was a girl from england or something with an RD tib..

I didn't know that anyone with an XD had the alpine blower ? Maybe if I did come across a post about your blower then I just forgot completely..

sheesh.


so, out with the details... :phone:

[cclngthr]

I dont think your lying you t3rd.. lol

The only person that I know of that has an alpine blower was a girl from england or something with an RD tib..

I didn't know that anyone with an XD had the alpine blower ? Maybe if I did come across a post about your blower then I just forgot completely..

sheesh.


so, out with the details... :phone:


I know who she is, talked to her several months ago, but forgot her screen name. She was having a hard time getting the engine to produce 200 hp.

[FordFasteRR]

I know who she is, talked to her several months ago, but forgot her screen name. She was having a hard time getting the engine to produce 200 hp.


exactly.. she had the older model eaton supercharger & she had the old beta 1 manifold design...

that could attribute to some of the lower #'s...

she was also only boosting like 4 psi or something like that...

[pjc6281]

is the oil self contained in this blower or are oil lines needed??

[cclngthr]

She told me that she was boosting about 5 psi and was having a lot of trouble with the power and having it get consistant. We figured that her bottom end was leaking so the fuel wasn't being burnt efficiently.

I would hope the blower has oil likes going to it.