Beta2 Alpine Supercharger...

[FordFasteRR]

is the oil self contained in this blower or are oil lines needed??


eaton blowers use self-contained oiling systems.

:) no lines.

[techcontib]

She is using the same blower. Xorro is her name. Look up her name on HP.com or RD.com then check out her website in her sig.. Shes list the amount of pain she went through. M45 4 gen is used on all the s/c kits for the beta's that I was aware of. Unless Eaton changed the gens between 1997 and now then it should be the same blower. M45 gen 4 is what you said you where getting right?specs (http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/superchargers/M45.asp)

I think Random still has some uninstall and install pics on his comp at his home. If he does then those would be alot better detail of the kit cause he takes alot pictures when he is trying to document stuff. I don't have any current pics other than the ones I have posted. The pics I have floating are before I went back to using the Unichip and a 5th injector. Pre Unichip I had about 143whp when the reflashed ecu felt like working properly. After a month of Alpine retuning the kit with the unichip I am now at 163 whp with 15+wtrq. The dyno sheet is at my house. I still can't find it where I posted on HA.com. But it was a written all over anyways and need to go again when i get back. My fastest(5th time ever down a real drag strip) was 15.5 but don't have the slip to scan it and post it(its in my glove compartment back in the states). The average of the 4 runs is 15.7 with the s/c pre unichip. http://www.hyundaiperformance.com/images/members/car/imgs/car233_5.jpg
I have no current time slip with current s/c setup running good. :( .
All tuning was done by John the man himself. Really good guy just hard to understand what he says sometimes with that south african accent. :phone:

The only diff from the kit I can see other than intake manifold is the brace and there is not a vacume(speling) port on the passenger side of the mani. I use mine for when I was checking to see if my boost guage worked. The bracket for the pully will be diff do to the differant engine bay.
I think that about wraps it up in a nut shell.

Ford they do have stuff to help prevent memory loss.lmao
P.S. My fingers hurt.

[FordFasteRR]

..........

Ford they do have stuff to help prevent memory loss.lmao


well, john himself told me that this is the newest production of the 4th gen eaton blowers and that its not exactly the same as the ones on his older kits.. he specifically told me that the newest blowers are more efficient and make more boost with less heat @ the same rpms...

anyway... I am currently running 15.5 NA so hopefully if the blower adds at least 50 + whp then i'll be running in the 14's or so..

I just hope the thing does what its meant to do... lol .. I want to gain at least 75 whp or more from it.. but only time will tell if that happens.

[techcontib]

well, john himself told me that this is the newest production of the 4th gen eaton blowers and that its not exactly the same as the ones on his older kits.. he specifically told me that the newest blowers are more efficient and make more boost with less heat @ the same rpms...

anyway... I am currently running 15.5 NA so hopefully if the blower adds at least 50 + whp then i'll be running in the 14's or so..

I just hope the thing does what its meant to do... lol .. I want to gain at least 75 whp or more from it.. but only time will tell if that happens.
I was unclear on the gen types wasn't 100 percent on the anwser.
You lucky mofo. I might have to change mine out then if it has the same bolt on pattern and if yours show better results. (Crossing fingers) Going to have to pay a visit when I get back. I can garantee you will be putting more hp than me. My 15.5 was the 5th time ever racing at the strip and 143whp the thing just had no oooomf at high rpms. the reflashed ecu was just ****ty. Thats all better now though just never been to the track since then.

I forgot to mention my performance mods. This included Random CAI and custom cat-back. Stock everything else.

EDIT: Specs on the 4th Gen incase someone was interested.
M45 4th GEN (http://www.magnusonproducts.com/mp45.htm)
I should of done a tad bit more google search before posting about the 4th Gen. The pictures shown though look exactly like mine. I think maybe mine is a 4th. I will send an email to John havn't talked to him in a long anyways.

[FordFasteRR]

i currently have 133 whp .... eaton says the blower can typically add 40% power increase..

so 133 whp + 40% = 186 whp.

thats not that bad for daily driver whp ...

I'll just have to wait and see how much the actual power gain will be...

:eek:

[Jmontigny]

Not sure if this has been discussed in this thread but I know the Alpine supercharger really did nothing for the Beta motor a couple years ago when it was on Randoms Tib. I should ask Random what the best hp they got out of his car was when they had the supercharger strapped to it. I believe it was only good for about 20-30whp however if I remember right. I believe the biggest problem was programming and dealing with the stock ECU.

[FordFasteRR]

well jay, lets hope I can get more than 30 whp. lol

sheesh...

[Jmontigny]

Spike, your right but Alpine actually had Randoms Tib for months and had the SC on it to try and get it to make some power but were never able to get any. Then they put the turbo back on and finished tuning that. I am actually very surprised that they are even trying the SC again.

Too bad Yam spent all that money for the Alpine SC before he realized he could get just as much power from Evofusion stuff. :D

[techcontib]

Not sure if this has been discussed in this thread but I know the Alpine supercharger really did nothing for the Beta motor a couple years ago when it was on Randoms Tib. I should ask Random what the best hp they got out of his car was when they had the supercharger strapped to it. I believe it was only good for about 20-30whp however if I remember right. I believe the biggest problem was programming and dealing with the stock ECU.
That would be my car.lol Forget not every body knows or has been around long enough to know.
According to this I am using a 4th gen.
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/bypass.htm
If you guys want I can go through the whole history of the pain Random went and I went to get the kits retuned. Random went through more pain than I actually did cause i was overseas while he had my car.lol Yam did even want to mess with it after he saw the intial dyno numbers.

[cclngthr]

I hope Alpine figured out the ecu tricks that they didn't when Xorro had hers installed. Since they've had time to do that with the subsequent redo's, I hope they figured it out by now. Since they have had luck with the V6 Tib S/C, they should be able to pull this off.

[FordFasteRR]

I hope Alpine figured out the ecu tricks that they didn't when Xorro had hers installed. Since they've had time to do that with the subsequent redo's, I hope they figured it out by now. Since they have had luck with the V6 Tib S/C, they should be able to pull this off.

me too.
hehehe

_____________

I have more pics !! WOO HOO !!


http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/blower_top_view.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/blower_rear_view.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/blower_side_view.jpg

[Keyan]

Wow. Are you gonna have to lift the engine to get that thing on or can you work around the pipes and crap in the engine bay? That support bar on the bottom makes me question.

[slow 2K2GT]

no that will be easy its just like a manifold swap whic ford has done many times so this install will be easy

[FordFasteRR]

Wow. Are you gonna have to lift the engine to get that thing on or can you work around the pipes and crap in the engine bay? That support bar on the bottom makes me question.


it is all easily bolted on.

:)

[OdessitPashka]

wow! looks great and clean!!!

[cclngthr]

I like the black finish. Goes well with the engine covers.

[evan938]

man...makes me want to sell my turbo kit and get somethin clean lookin like that

[seraph0503]

hey that looks like one of the 03+ engines...hehe maybe i do need to jump on this. hopefully now that fords is done they will be able to get these out to mass production. if nothing else it's clean. and it's gonna sound so good.

[FordFasteRR]

the pics that are shown were taken this afternoon, the kit is still @ alpine and they are still fooling with the unichip tuning....

the engine its bolted to is an 03 beta2 from a tib.. it also just happens to have the alpine turbo kit on it .. so its basically dual FI ..

anywho..

looking at this pic, I can clearly see that they fabricated an inlet for the IAC valve... however, I still cant see the location of the map sensor port...

also, the 5th injector is right there on the blower inlet, its the silver looking thing with an NPT fitting on the end. .. you can see the injector socket on the bottom side of it.. sweet :)

lets see exactly where it ends up when I get the kit ! LOL


http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/blower_top_view.jpg

[ilanpro]

So is this for an 04-05 with the MAF??

[FordFasteRR]

So is this for an 04-05 with the MAF??

no, this kit is specifically for the 01-03 xd and the 03 map based tibs.. :)



also, I really like how they mounted the supercharger bypass valve on the FRONT of the blower instead of on the back.. that will allow me to see if there is any problems with it ... & at the same time, it gives more clearance between the blower & the firewall !!!!

[ilanpro]

they do have the kit for MAF in stock right??

[FordFasteRR]

they do have the kit for MAF in stock right??


I dont know :(

You'll have to call & ask them.

[ilanpro]

Man I'm broke, Soon as I land this military Job I can start looking for 1, my faith on a SC is in your hands Ford. lol

[techcontib]

If you look in this pic right next to the vacuum line port you can see it. I think thats where it goes never seen your guys MAP sensors. So not sure. But there is a hole and i see one hole for a bolt.
http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/blower_rear_view.jpg
Edit : By the way that definatly looks sexy. I think I am going to have to paint mine now. Mine is horrible grey color. I also like how they put the silinoid on the opposite side. Make sure John scan a copy of the dyno for yea. He tends to forget things. :D

[FordFasteRR]

If you look in this pic right next to the vacuum line port you can see it.........

all i see on this side are two holes for the throttle linkage or something...

I dont see any map sensor hole... lol

[techcontib]

In between the bottem of the s/c and the beginning of the runners there is a little vacuum nipple Just to the left of the nipple there is a hole about 1 inch in diameter

[FordFasteRR]

OK, I see it now...

it looks like it might be the right size... but I cant be 100% sure...

I guess that would be the right place to put the map sensor since it MUST read boost in order to accureately sense load...

the unichip intercepts the ouput and clamps it as necessary so the ECU does not go into stupid mode... :)

Thanks for pointing that out.. lets see if it is the exact position when it comes in ! :)

______________________________

I Just got a reply from alpine, I asked them what size the 5th injector was...

and guess what ? its a 65 lb.hr injector !

that means that the engine can support an additional 120 bhp with just that 1 single injector ! NOT BAD ! :)

hehee

[dmdicks]

Yup, that's the same injector that comes in the turbo kit. It and the OEM injectors got me to 230WHP without a problem...

[EVOXD]

Ford im excited for you. That looks amazing. Im gonna start saving and mabe by the end of next summer i can buy one. By then you should have all the kinks worked out and should make it easier for all of us. Cant wait!

[FordFasteRR]

I spoke to alpine a few minutes ago..

the kit will ship today or tomorrow... lets see if they come through !

[KeWLKaT]

Good luck. I was thinking about it, and I've always seen you as a pioneer for the Elantra scene. Keep it up man, keep it up.

[jaws021]

wow... didnt think alpine would ever think about supercharging a beta again after the first disaster.

BTW,

Xorro owns the supercharger in the UK. She has done almost every possible NA mod, with no luck of reaching 200whp. She has actually increased the boost with the help of a local company, but still has had no luck.

Tech does have s/c that came from yams car (that was sold to random) and was the r&d car for alpine.

Random bought yams old s/c car and brought it back to stock. I almost bought the s/c, but ended up buying the turbo kit instead. I did help random remove the s/c... which was then sold to tech.

Seeing as the BETA I and beta II are almost identical... i would guess that you will put down a bit less than tech.

Tech was fortunate enough to be able to drive to alpine for tuning,... retuning... more retuning.. and more retuning...

So he got a lot more attention then the average joe.

Im sorry... but i dont see any beta breaking the 170whp mark with the alpine s/c alone. Squeezing some nitrous might be the only way to pass the 200 mark.

Nitrous will be another story... cause it wont be easy... tech knows..

Sorry guys..

[slow 2K2GT]

OUCH! That post hurt.

[FordFasteRR]

wow... didnt think alpine would ever think about supercharging a beta again after the first disaster.
..........

Sorry guys..


sheesh.

I guess only time will tell what happens :(

I'll be sure to post the dyno Sheet & 1/4 mile times after Its installed.


Jaws, do you remember what boost level these individuals were running and how much they dynoed respectively ?

[cclngthr]

I think any engine can be supercharged. It depends on the design of the blower itself and how well the ecu management tuning has been done. While Xorro was having trouble initially with hers, she was able to get 200 whp, which translates to about 250 crank hp from the engine.

Keep in mind though Hyundai uses ecu mapping that requires the engine to run clean. It is not that easy to get the engine to have a lot of power and still run efficiently. Once the power goes up, the emissions do suffer because you have more fuel to mess with.

[slow 2K2GT]

**** emissions! We wanna go fast and get there faster! Yank the ECU and do stand alone. All you need is music and HP! Take out the power windows and get cranks, lower em and theres the AC. Heat well you dont need heat in Florida.

[slow 2K2GT]

Agreed. There isnt nearly enough attention paid to Hyundai though any major company. Though the market isnt as big as say for Honda im sure there is some money in what we do...I hope that Jaws is wrong and Ford can hit that magic 200whp mark. I am really starting to hate the perfomance abilities of our verhicles. Koreans need to share some secrets with us...or perhaps its their slit eyes, they just think they are going fast. (NOT A RACIST REMARK)

[cclngthr]

**** emissions! We wanna go fast and get there faster! Yank the ECU and do stand alone. All you need is music and HP! Take out the power windows and get cranks, lower em and theres the AC. Heat well you dont need heat in Florida.

You know damn well that won't happen. It is a privilege to get to drive; you must have a license and submit your vehicles paperwork to the state to see if it is safe and allow them to license it. It is up to the states to determine what can be allowed on the roads. My truck, which is supercharged is conditionally licensed, but if it were newer, it would not be licensed because it does not comply with the federal and state regulations because of the modifications to it.

[techcontib]

Jaws is not wrong in his post he is stating facts. The only thing also I forgot to mention didn't think of it till now. Was ALpine did install a new pully on my s/c as well. Actually two times. A smaller one than what Yam had. I think when Yam had the kit it was only putting out maybe 3 psi. But he never checked it as far as I remember.
But most of the long time of tuning was do to using diff type of methods for the ecu. Rick from Real tried to do a reflash which did work but threw eeprom erros do to the rd's crappy as ecu. Plus like I said half the time my car would feel good other times it run like crap. Didn't matter if I had the eeprom CEL or not.

So after couple weeks of tuning with the unichip, John finally gave me the beast I have today. Luckly I didn't have to pay for the tuning I could only imagine the amount that would of cost. I am sure Ford will bust Xorro current 200BHP. Just not with 4psi.
Good thing Ford is getting smaller pullys. ;)

[OdessitPashka]

technotib, I'm thinking about getting my ECU reprogrammed by Rick. what was wrong with yours?

PM me if you get a chance.

sorry for off topic

[techcontib]

technotib, I'm thinking about getting my ECU reprogrammed by Rick. what was wrong with yours?

PM me if you get a chance.

sorry for off topic
PM sent.

[FordFasteRR]

PM sent.


hey I want in on the info too !!

Sheesh ! :phone:

[techcontib]

hey I want in on the info too !!

Sheesh ! :phone:
PM sent but without porn pics this time.j/k

[FordFasteRR]

If I don't hear from alpine today i'm gonna be so damn pissed.

I already asked them to send me the turbo kit instead, but they called me right away and convinced me to wait for the blower just 1 more day ...

so I'll stick with the plan ... but the clock is ticking.. :)

_______________________________

udpate:

From looking closely at the new placement of the TB ... I feel that it will locate the intake pipe too close to the brake resevoir to allow proper fitment of the CAI pipe.. not to mention that it moves it almost 4 inches to the right..

I'm just got a shiver down my spine when I realized this...

[sed]

looks like we are swapping intakes again ;)

shawn :)

[techcontib]

You better go get a tape measure. And do some damn good gestamation from pic. If they use that big block of uglyness your tb might be right over your damn MS. That is a good question to ask John for sure. But if he is tuning on his dynopack you would think that would be installed in a car. When John builds these kits he goes mostly for OEM fitment.

[FordFasteRR]

You better go get a tape measure. And do some damn good gestamation from pic. If they use that big block of uglyness your tb might be right over your damn MS. That is a good question to ask John for sure. But if he is tuning on his dynopack you would think that would be installed in a car. When John builds these kits he goes mostly for OEM fitment.

well, from what I can see, the original blower plenum was modified by adding a spacer that allows the installation of the beta 2 idle control valve... the spacer is the problem.

I was able to eliminate the need to use the stock tbs idle bypass port on my car when I was testing with the airram manifold... i was able to fabricate an adaptor for the idle bypass and then just connect it to one of the larger size vacume ports on the back of the intake... I think john will have to do the same thing if he plans for the tb to fit with an intake pipe ...

[slow 2K2GT]

You know damn well that won't happen. It is a privilege to get to drive; you must have a license and submit your vehicles paperwork to the state to see if it is safe and allow them to license it. It is up to the states to determine what can be allowed on the roads. My truck, which is supercharged is conditionally licensed, but if it were newer, it would not be licensed because it does not comply with the federal and state regulations because of the modifications to it.


I was only kidding take the knot out of you panties, and clean the sand from your ovaries!

[jaws021]

i think zorro was pushing somewhere between 6 or 7lbs of boost.

The only thing i can recommend....

Once you get your charger.. upgrade to four larger injectors and retune the dam thing. Ok.. so what do you do with the 5th injector? Ok mr nitrous world.. here is where you will impress the whole dam hyundai world.
Go wet..
Start small..

I expect, almost guarantee.. with a small little 35 shot.. you will gain about 50-70whp or tq.

Why? well.. that charger heats up... A LOT.. I MEAN A LOT.. those air temps are not koo..

My only worry is a nitrous backfire.. so please start small...

Another thing to keep in mind..
LIke tech said.. rd ecus suck donkey d1ck, thats why we usually just go haltech... to avoid future headaches.

You might have a shot since your ecu is a lot friendlier than ours. I still think that s/c sux with our cars though..

BTW.. you guys do know that Chris from FX treme is selling his old supercharger...
It was one out of three rimmer chargers. It came with 4 larger injectors, and i think he passed the 190 mark with no other NA mods. I think he was selling it for about 800. Dont know much details about it..

Although.. if any of you have ever seen a vid of a loud *** supercharged rd tiburon... its him (i think the vid is on hp.com right now in the off topic forum).

Good luck guys..

[techcontib]

RIMMER SC vid is insane

:cool:

Agreed. I need to make my own video in a parking lot somehwre but the wife prob kill me. :eek:

[jaws021]

its ok man.. sneak out and i can video tape you and you can video tape me....

umm...

That didnt sound right..
lol

[cclngthr]

i think zorro was pushing somewhere between 6 or 7lbs of boost.

The only thing i can recommend....

Once you get your charger.. upgrade to four larger injectors and retune the dam thing. Ok.. so what do you do with the 5th injector? Ok mr nitrous world.. here is where you will impress the whole dam hyundai world.
Go wet..
Start small..

I expect, almost guarantee.. with a small little 35 shot.. you will gain about 50-70whp or tq.

Why? well.. that charger heats up... A LOT.. I MEAN A LOT.. those air temps are not koo..

My only worry is a nitrous backfire.. so please start small...

Another thing to keep in mind..
LIke tech said.. rd ecus suck donkey d1ck, thats why we usually just go haltech... to avoid future headaches.

You might have a shot since your ecu is a lot friendlier than ours. I still think that s/c sux with our cars though..

BTW.. you guys do know that Chris from FX treme is selling his old supercharger...
It was one out of three rimmer chargers. It came with 4 larger injectors, and i think he passed the 190 mark with no other NA mods. I think he was selling it for about 800. Dont know much details about it..

Although.. if any of you have ever seen a vid of a loud *** supercharged rd tiburon... its him (i think the vid is on hp.com right now in the off topic forum).

Good luck guys..

When I spoke to Xorro, she was at 5-6 psi with the stock internals and injectors (which was last summer). Talking with my engine builder, who specializes in boosted engines, we think her engine is leaking somewhere. She also doesn't have an intercooler either. She should get at least 260 chp to begin with. A 300-350 chp should be possible.

On using nos, that can cause more headaches if you don't calculate things right. I would not advise it with an engine with the factory compression ratio. It would be too easy to detonate the fuel charge with a boost. I suggest a CR of 8:1 to do that safely.

The beta 1 ecu should be similar to the beta 2 ecu. Only difference is the maf/map sensor that comes to mind.

[ilanpro]

Fordfasterr Just listen to that SC

http://www.elantraxd.com/forums/showthread.php?p=60445#post60445

[techcontib]

its ok man.. sneak out and i can video tape you and you can video tape me....

umm...

That didnt sound right..
lol

Your just plain sick.
Someone needs to make a nice little GIF with parts of that vid of the one Chris did..

[FordFasteRR]

oK, I just spoke to alpine again...

They are going to compromise with me on 1 thing...

They will send me an original un-modified beta1 supercharger throttle body manifold ... and they will also send me the one they custom made for my car...

if for some reason the one they custom made does not work, I can revert to the beta1 inlet but there is 1 catch.

I have to swap to a beta1 throttle body and then custom-mount the idle control valve using the same method that I used when I had to rig up the kspec airscam manifold...

Either way will work fine as far as idle and dirvability is concerned, but I am more concerned with proper fitment.

He assured me that they test-fitted it on their own car and that it was fine.

SO i'll take their word for it..

also, he is not sending me the 10 psi pulley.. i asked him about it and he said their 10 psi pulley was a test pulley and it uses all kinds of spacers and junk and he doesnt want to send me that , but that he ordered some 10 psi pulleys and he could send me one when they come in later on..

he also told me that the supercharger is shipping out today for sure.

:)

[dmdicks]

Yippie!! Have him call you with the tracking number when it does ship!!

[techcontib]

At least you caught it in time. About that possible problem. So your not stuck for another potential week.

[cclngthr]

It should work, but my question would be if the beta 1 manifold would work with the map sensor.

I would think the beta 2 version should fit. If the TB is closer to the brake master cylindar, it should be easy enough to fab up a intake tube that clears it.

[techcontib]

The old manifold will not work hence why they made a new one. If I had a good memory, John told me why he had to change the design. Probably something to do with fitment issue within the engine bay..

[2GTS]

It should work, but my question would be if the beta 1 manifold would work with the map sensor.

I would think the beta 2 version should fit. If the TB is closer to the brake master cylindar, it should be easy enough to fab up a intake tube that clears it.
A beta I manifold would not be used, a beta I TB would be used if needed.

[jjos1]

I don't know if this has been asked before (too many posts to read) do they have any plans of making an aqua cooler or some other form of cooler for it, because won't the unit make more heat a higher boost levels?

[FordFasteRR]

I don't know if this has been asked before (too many posts to read) do they have any plans of making an aqua cooler or some other form of cooler for it, because won't the unit make more heat a higher boost levels?

it is always possible to have a shop custom fabricate a new intake manifold with an integrated aqua-cooler but the cost would be prohibitive.

for the low boost that the mp45 will be set @ .. ( 8 psi ) , it will not make enough heat to ping on pump gas...

:)

[mbv2001]

you prolly already answer this question....do you plan to NOS your car?

[FordFasteRR]

uh oh !

I just got the MARCH 05 issue of Sport Compact Car and guess what ?

right on page 124 there is a picture of a v6 tiburon alpine supercharger kit, and right below it, the caption reads:

" Alpine Developments makes supercharger kits for the Hyundai Elantra and Tiburon " ...

lol..

:)

I wish !!

[NorthernYankee]

Yeah I saw that last week and I had a nice chuckle too.

--NY

[FordFasteRR]

Update.... I just verified with Alpine that the kit has shipped...

they did not have the tracking # on hand but they will e-mail it to me shortly.

:)

[CTele02]

...Time to pull out my 3 black civics with green neon and get that tracking number before you!!!

[mrhoaf]

Update.... I just verified with Alpine that the kit has shipped...

.... and there was great rejoicing... YAY!!!

[sed]

winter turned to spring, spring to summer, it completly skipped fall and turned right back into winter.

And we had to eat sir gallahad's minstrels. and there was great rejoycing.... yaaay.

[mrhoaf]

thanks for picking up on the reference Sed.....

and it seems like it's taken that long for this thing to become a reality....

[Red2.0Tib]

Been following this thru NT.com Ford....just thought I'd hop in to watch this. FF, is Alpine actually going to mass produce this? I had contacted them multiple times about it, but they kept telling me it was coming, and nothing ever happened.

[Pumbaa]

Yes it is coming, now we'll see what the fruits of alpines labors will produce. I have my fingers crossed on the 200whp mark. I will want this baby if it works.

[techcontib]

Yes it is coming, now we'll see what the fruits of alpines labors will produce. I have my fingers crossed on the 200whp mark. I will want this baby if it works.
Its not coming with 200whp from Alpine. Ford is going to make go 200whp.
If anything it will make 200hp at the flywheel from Alpine.

[FordFasteRR]

it will need to add 67 hp to make me get to 200 whp... since i've already got 133 whp...

:)

[OdessitPashka]

it will need to add 67 hp to make me get to 200 whp... since i've already got 133 whp...

:)
more, since you are loosing your ported and polished IM

[FordFasteRR]

more, since you are loosing your ported and polished IM


the new manifold is equivalent to a ported IM since its been casted for performance :) LOL

_______________________


I got the tracking # 's.... weight is 53 lb...

scheduled delivery is FRIDAY ! :)

SWEEEET !!!

[EVOXD]

so are you putting it on this weekend? and if so are you going to dyno it this weekend also. i hope you make it to 200whp

[FordFasteRR]

so are you putting it on this weekend? and if so are you going to dyno it this weekend also. i hope you make it to 200whp

If i put it on this weekend, I wont have time to dyno it until next week...
:)

[sed]

looks like we got ourselves a project this weekend ;)

[Keyan]

Ford, we, as a community webboard, will STAB YOU IN THE FACE if you don't take pictures during the install :)

lol.

[FordFasteRR]

trust me, I will take pics.

I plan to pick up a miniDV camcorder this week to take some videos too.

Also, I just got back from the junk yard.. I picked up a beta 1 TB and 2 spare TPS sensors just in case the intake spacer fuxors up my fitment...

I don't know if some of you were reading the earlier posts on this thread but I have a feeling that the TB spacer that alpine made for me will cause a fitment problem with my CAI because it moves the TB about 3 inches to the right of its stock location... Alpine said they tested it on their I4 tib and it was fine, however I'd rather be the judge of that...

so they sent me one supercharger inlet plenum with the tb and iac spacer , and they sent me a stock one with just the regular beta1 TB bolt-pattern.

If the beta2 plenum with spacer does not fit, i'll use the beta1 TB I just bought and i'll adapt the IAC using the same quick-steel dual vacume port adapter that I made back when I was testing the AIRRAM manifold since it did not have a provision for the beta2 IAC ..

so.... thats it for now. :)

[cclngthr]

Ford, what you can do is have a custom intake tube made up. It should be easy enough to find a 3 inch section of pipe and have that mandrel bent up to your specs. That is probably what I'm going to do once I find out more information on the reliability of the s/c setup (from you) on the Beta 2 motor; which I plan on getting a kit as well.

The only difference I plan on doing from your design is I plan on building an engine that has the forged parts and the pistons designed for a boosted engine. I've already got the block and heads sitting in the corner.

[FordFasteRR]

...........
The only difference I plan on doing from your design is I plan on building an engine that has the forged parts and the pistons designed for a boosted engine. I've already got the block and heads sitting in the corner.

sweet... maybe I'll have you build me one of those stout short blocks & ship it to me for a reasonable price in a few months ?

:)

[cclngthr]

I am building a long block. I got a couple heads in case I mess one up, which can happen. I want to make sure it will be done right. I'm thinking the CR will be around 8.6:1, to be on the safe end of things, in case I decide to spray the thing.

What I would like to do is figure a way to adjust the timing through a laptop computer (which the timing on these things are controlled electronically). This way, I can manually adjust the timing according to the boost level.

[tharptroy]

cclngthr...its sure a good thing you're going with a blower...you're stuck on terribly low compression ratios. do you think its your big V8 roots holding you back?

you'd have to spin the **** out of that blower to make enough boost to require 8.5:1 pistons unless you plan on spinning it hard and not cooling the charge

[FordFasteRR]

I am building a long block. I got a couple heads in case I mess one up, which can happen. I want to make sure it will be done right. I'm thinking the CR will be around 8.6:1, to be on the safe end of things, in case I decide to spray the thing.

What I would like to do is figure a way to adjust the timing through a laptop computer (which the timing on these things are controlled electronically). This way, I can manually adjust the timing according to the boost level.

I am currently aware of only 1 company that makes a timing adjuster that would work on our cars as a piggy back..

its made by SPLIT SECOND... the price is about $ 500 and it has not been tested on any beta series hyundai ecms..

however, they do have one that works on SIEMENS ECM like the beta2 ... but again, nobody has tried one on a beta yet.. I am not willing to dump $ 500 into another experiment... considering that I already bout the MSD DIS-2 and that has an adjustable timing retard feature built in... primitive, but at least it has it..

MSD makes a slightly higher cost MSD unit that will give you a programmable retard function based on boost from a MAP sensor... You could also go that route :)

[Choking Hazard]

Ford, we, as a community webboard, will STAB YOU IN THE FACE if you don't take pictures during the install :)

lol.
I 2nd the motion. And opt to change it to KILL YOU IN YOUR FACE.

all in good fun my friend, all in good fun.

[cclngthr]

cclngthr...its sure a good thing you're going with a blower...you're stuck on terribly low compression ratios. do you think its your big V8 roots holding you back?

you'd have to spin the **** out of that blower to make enough boost to require 8.5:1 pistons unless you plan on spinning it hard and not cooling the charge

The normal supercharged engine CR is between 8:1-9:1 for any engine, whether it is 4, 6, or 8 cylindar. I chose 8.5-6:1 to be on the safe side in case I can't figure a way to retard the timing very much, if at all. Usually, you need to retard the timing to 20-30 BTC to make the engine run right and have the power where you want it. I also hadn't planned on installing an intercooler either, but that could change. Using the lower CR also enables you to run a octane rated gas below 92 as well. In my area, we have high test gas with an octane rating of 92, and the lower grades being 87 and 90. Since I can't get octane higher than 92, I want the engine to run on fuel that is lower than that figure to be on the safe side.

My trucks boost is at 10 psi, which is on the high side. On the elantras engine, I could go as high as 12-15 if I wanted to, but I probably will be running about 6-7 psi to start out. If I do decide to add a bottle to it, the lower CR will help out when nos is added (IF I decide to do that).

[FordFasteRR]

hey ccl...

I was thinking about something... not too long ago I read a post on NT.COM about a guy who said he wanted to retard the timing on his NA v6 motor ... he said some other guy did the same thing and gained some power on the dyno...

I was having trouble comprehending why someone would gain power by pulling out some timing on an NA motor..

Yesterday I was doing some reading online and I found out that engines that have very short strokes like the beta & the delta have a specific problem which is why they tend to have problems making power at higher rpms than other engines..

it has to do with the rod / stroke ratio... a motor with a short rod and short stroke will have much higher piston speeds (as some of us already know about our beta engines), and the problem with excessive piston speed is that at high rpms, the piston moves away from TDC very fast, and if the rpms are high enough, the piston will actually accelerate faster than the combustion process and therefore the combustion cant push the piston down faster than its already spinning so you end up with no top end power !!!


ok... for those of you who understand that... here is my point.

if the guy retards his timing, then the explosion within the cylinder happens slightly farther into the combustion process and then applies more force to the piston as its accellerating away from TDC and therefore yields a slight gain in power.

get it ?

[slow 2K2GT]

huh, that would be a dyno trip for you ford, put that new MSD unit to good use.

[FordFasteRR]

huh, that would be a dyno trip for you ford, put that new MSD unit to good use.

unfortunately I cannot allocate any more funds to dyno tuning until AFTER the blower is installed.

So, it looks like the NA MSD RETARD MOD will have to be done by someone else !!!

:)

[dmdicks]

I'm currently in the process of installing the Perfect Power SMT-6 on my BetaII Tib. Alpine says it will control timing just fine. I'll let you all know the results.

[FordFasteRR]

sweet !!

is the smt-6 like a very powerfull piggy back ? or is it more like a stand alone ?

[BobMs_wht2k2]

the NA MSD RETARD MOD
:)

That just looks funny!

[FordFasteRR]

That just looks funny!

super funny. hehe

[sed]

wow, you guys are saying funny ****

[mrhoaf]

Ford, did you get a tracking number on the kit? When is it gonna be there? Did I miss that post?

[FordFasteRR]

yes, i got the tracking #... it is scheduled for delivery on Friday .

:)

[Jmontigny]

sweet !!

is the smt-6 like a very powerfull piggy back ? or is it more like a stand alone ?

It is more like a stand alone since everyone just leaves it alone since they can't get it to work with a Hyundai.

[FordFasteRR]

It is more like a stand alone since everyone just leaves it alone since they can't get it to work with a Hyundai.


bwaaahahaha

well, then, Dicks... I wish you good luck ...

from what i've seen, Dickerson is a smart guy... resourceful... lets wish him luck with all good intentions ! :)

:bowdown:

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Hey FF, post the tracking number so we can all watch it make its way across the US!!

[FordFasteRR]

Hey FF, post the tracking number so we can all watch it make its way across the US!!


ahh... sorry.. can't post the tracking # ... security reasons.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I know, it was more of a joke than anything else.

[OdessitPashka]

It is more like a stand alone since everyone just leaves it alone since they can't get it to work with a Hyundai.
very not true! I know a bunch of people that run SMT6 on their tiburons and accents and it works great :)

it's still a piggy back, but one of the best piggy backs outthere!

I can't wait man!!!!

[FordFasteRR]

very not true! I know a bunch of people that run SMT6 on their tiburons and accents and it works great :)

it's still a piggy back, but one of the best piggy backs outthere!

I can't wait man!!!!

ok.. so Dickerson says that the SMT-6 can control timing..

if its a piggy back.. then it would need to tap into the sensors that the ecu uses to set timing..

that would be the crank position sensor in the case of our timing system...

I would like to verify with Dickerson that the smt-6 does in fact have crank position sensor input wires... :)

[Jmontigny]

very not true! I know a bunch of people that run SMT6 on their tiburons and accents and it works great :)

it's still a piggy back, but one of the best piggy backs outthere!

I can't wait man!!!!

Last I checked into this they were able to control fuel no problem but having problems getting control of the spark for advance and retard. Has that issue been solved finally?

[OdessitPashka]

ok.. so Dickerson says that the SMT-6 can control timing..

if its a piggy back.. then it would need to tap into the sensors that the ecu uses to set timing..

that would be the crank position sensor in the case of our timing system...

I would like to verify with Dickerson that the smt-6 does in fact have crank position sensor input wires... :)

Check this page out :) Link (http://www.locustom.com/smt.htm)

Unless timing system is different on beta1 from beta2 it has been worked out and works perfectly great :)

[sed]

can't wait.... beer and g/fs and supercharger this weekend!!!!!!!

shawn ;)

[FordFasteRR]

holy crap holy crap holy crap..

the smt 6 does have it... the instructions say you have to tap into the cam sensor & add a crank position sensor, but our cars already have one so all we have to do is tap into the stock ones...

here is a pic of a crank position sensor that they RIGGED onto some car... so sweet !! !
This is what I was talking about doing a long time ago similar to the way the FORD mustang uses a crank based timing adjuster from steeda...

looky:

http://www.locustom.com/images/installs/v6_magnets.jpg

__________

now all we have to do is find out how they modified the balancer to have the magnetic pickups so we can do it to our betas and get full timing adjustment WITHOUT the smt-6.

just relocate the stock flywheel crank trigger to the balancer instead !

SWEET !! TALK ABOUT DIY PROJECTS ! HAHAHA

[OdessitPashka]

ford you have too much time in your hands. just buy the SMT6 :)

[FordFasteRR]

well, I could buy the smt-6, but then i cant say that my car is tuned using the FordFasteRR MODS... :(

this is a picture of the crank sensor wheel ...

http://hmaservice.com/xml/graphics/ed/edkb444e.jpg

if I can get ahold of one of these guys, I might be able to attach it to the crank pulley and then re-locate the crank position sensor on a bracket that will allow me to move it to get the desired timing adjustment that I want..

the timing ring comes off with a screw driver... check it out:

http://hmaservice.com/xml/graphics/ed/edda028c.gif


i think the toughest part of this DIY project would be tearing the crank out of a junk beta engine ... you have to fully remove the crank to get the timing ring out !!!!!!!!

[seraph0503]

ford when i get enough cash i'm gonna ship my car to you on a trailer and let you have at it for like 6 months. **** maybe u can get it to run faster than the 350z....

[sed]

FORD YOU DUMBASS

what about the junk motor you will be having sitting in your front yard in a couple of weeks?

jeez you have the attention span of a hamster sometimes

shawn :)

[FordFasteRR]

FORD YOU DUMBASS

what about the junk motor you will be having sitting in your front yard in a couple of weeks?

jeez you have the attention span of a hamster sometimes

shawn :)


good point dude... I gues it'll be smarter to wait for your old engine and i'll strip it of its guts :)

Thanks !

[sed]

:) glad to keep you on the ground ;)

shawn :)

[Pumbaa]

Ok, I'm mechanically ignorant to the most part, all the internal crap is still a learning experiance to me. But what I've learned with my dad's miata and timing issues have come to attention. So this smt-6 thingy(ignorance 'member) is suposed to use the stock sensors to adjust timing. In the terms that our motor has short pistons means it has to turn faster to get the power out. With the smt-6 we can get a slight gain by advancing the timing for the high end. Correct? In turn does this hurt the low end performance? I'm guessing no, because of the timing adjustment. I know with the Miata advancing the timing on a stock motor will give you a small gain and prevent pinging at the higher rpms while using 92 octane rather than 87 octane.

[OdessitPashka]

yes, it will give couple horses if you advance timing. and 93 gas will be a must!

[cclngthr]

Sometimes if you retard the timing, it can add some hp as well. Short stroke engines do have a problem of the piston going down too fast and the spark ignites the mix too late.

[Elantra2.001]

Ford, i have a spare crank...

[FordFasteRR]

Ford, i have a spare crank...

i'll be getting a timing ring from SED's engine...

so thanks for offering :)

[sed]

not the new one though!

:)

[DAILLESTWUN]

Sooo are we still on for Saturday...Ford, Sed???

[FordFasteRR]

Sooo are we still on for Saturday...Ford, Sed???

I'll call you on friday to confirm WHEN the blower comes in :)

[dmdicks]

is the shipment still on time for delivery tomorrow?

[FordFasteRR]

it says re-scheduled but still on time for Friday.

[H5N1]

Man, I can't way to seee this....

[slow 2K2GT]

OK Ford its friday let see this ****!!!!! WOOOOOHHOOOOOOO!!!!!

[sed]

Ford is right now pacing in his living room lol

shawn :)

[NorthernYankee]

Ok go hunt down the fedex or UPS guy and get this thing installed:D

[tharptroy]

today will be the day that the delivery man is late...

you order something, the UPS guy usually shows up at noon....but this time he doesnt get there till 5:00pm

[FordFasteRR]

status update:


Jan 28, 2005
6:30 A.M.


HOLLYWOOD, FL, US


OUT FOR DELIVERY

[slvrsleeper]

Further bulletins as events warrant......LOL Stupid brown truck!

[KeWLKaT]

Good luck on this man, let us hear about it.

If it doesnt work out, I`m going for the tibby 6 conversion with that thing' alpine s/c :D

[sed]

Sweet Dude!

[FordFasteRR]

I have the blower now.

:)

[sed]

and I have a woody now!

shawn :)

[BobMs_wht2k2]

I have the blower now.

:)
:worthless

[FordFasteRR]

i'll take pics after this meeting is over in my office. hahah :)

[BobMs_wht2k2]

3 ,months and 650 posts later, it's actually here!

[mrhoaf]

i'll take pics after this meeting is over in my office. hahah :)

you didn't take off from work today??????

come on, how dedicated are you.....geez....

I'm dissapointed..... :nono: LOL

[FordFasteRR]

you didn't take off from work today??????

come on, how dedicated are you.....geez....

I'm dissapointed..... :nono: LOL


I had to be here to get the damn package you jackass :) HEHEHE

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Quit arguing and take some pictures!!!

[FordFasteRR]

Status: Delivered
Delivered on: Jan 28, 2005 10:44 A.M.

[Keyan]

PiICTURES YOU BASTARD! lol

[FordFasteRR]

PiICTURES YOU BASTARD! lol


I already told you jackasses that I'm in a meeting in my office and I can't even get the box in here until a little later ...

sheesh.

if everything goes as planned, this blower will be installed and functional by tomorrow .. :) so chill it. I had to wait 3 months, you can wait a few hours. hehe

[sed]

hell yeah it will be, or my name isn't pablo!

[slvrsleeper]

Wait a minute your name ISN'T pablo!? C'mon Ford the hopes and dreams of ninety EXD members who can't afford the blower are riding on you! I have no doubt that you and your evil apprentice will burn the midnight oil putting that puppy in this weekend. Have fun and for gods sake do a good DIY!

[FordFasteRR]

pablo, are you washing your ess ?

[tharptroy]

ford...you should certainly start a new thread once you start taking pics, etc. this one is so cluttered that its worthless

[sed]

lol clutter!

shawn :)

more clutter, more more more

[OdessitPashka]

Finaly man! Did you even get a chance to look at it?

[BobMs_wht2k2]

Man, you could cut the tension in this forum with a knife.

[FordFasteRR]

check this out:

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010064.jpg

[felixr]

that plugs into the ashtray right?

[sed]

::drool:: so much drool, erection forming, need to go to hollywood and see blower

must see blower... must see blower

[BobMs_wht2k2]

MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't that installed yet?

[FordFasteRR]

MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't that installed yet?



i'll be taking dozens of pics during the install.. so thats that :)

[OdessitPashka]

looks nice :) when are you installing it?

[ilanpro]

does it look easy to install??

[FordFasteRR]

it looks so damn easy to install that you cant even imagine it. lol !!

[slvrsleeper]

Ford you dirty dirty tease! Why for you tempt me with the XD porn? Screw that gimme nitrous! Immediately, if not sooner.

[FordFasteRR]

dammit...

:(

weather forecast:
Saturday 29th...

Rain showers in the morning becoming more intermittent in the afternoon. High 74F. Winds E at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 60%.


f_cking mother nature. hehe

[SuperGLS]

Good stuff, this is a good day in EXD history, all of you better not forget it, ha.

Now, let's hope everything goes smoothly.

[hyunelan2]

.....lost for words.... examining credit card limits.... lol.

Well, now I know my weekend will be dedicated to checking for updated pictures.

[FordFasteRR]

ok, here are few more pics now that I got this thing out of the box @ home...

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010065.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010066.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010067.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010068.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010069.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010070.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010071.jpg

[oregun]

Good stuff, this is a good day in EXD history, all of you better not forget it, ha.


Couldn't have said it better my self. You will all remember when you saw post 665 of this thread with your own eyes. You will tell your childern and their childern about it!

I think we should to declare some sort of special holiday or an award that is given on 1/28 of subsequent years for the most kickass development for the XD.

I don't know what we should call it. The first thing that comes to mind is the "Ford Award." but I cringe at the thought of putting the word "ford" in anything special or honorary. (I'm a chevy guy)

Any suggestions

[FordFasteRR]

............ (I'm a chevy guy)

Any suggestions


ohh no. no you didn't.

not on my supercharger thread !

YOU MUST DIE !

[NorthernYankee]

Mopar Baby!!!

[slow 2K2GT]

Well Ford im glad that after 680 posts that thing is here, now all this HP stuff weve been discussing can be put to bed, hopefully to sleep and not on the wrong side. I wish you good luck with that my friend, I know the dyno machine has your name on it soon.

[oregun]

ohh no. no you didn't.

not on my supercharger thread !

YOU MUST DIE !

Ha-Ha!!!!

I was just checking if you were installing the S/C like you should be, or messing around on your computer - wasting time.

Anyways, give it up - Have you seen the new Z06?

[OdessitPashka]

looks great man :) put a rain-coat on and install that thing tmrw!!!!

[FordFasteRR]

....

Anyways, give it up - Have you seen the new Z06?

have you seen the new 05 shelby mustang ?

550 hp.

05 shelby stang vs. 05 z06 = z06.go.slow.

[oregun]

Wait until Lingenfelter gets ahold of the Z06!!

[BLK02XD]

nice, you can drive up here and use my garage

[ilanpro]

Steve you cannot let a little shower ruin the HP party man

[sed]

we should call it the jewban award ;)

shawn :)

[cclngthr]

Looks good. Now, all I need to know is how the thing works with the engine.

[FordFasteRR]

Looks good. Now, all I need to know is how the thing works with the engine.

I'll let you know how it goes during the install tomorrow :)

Keep an eye on this thread, and I plan to open up another thread with just the SC pics that I hope will become a locked sticky... we'll see :)

[KeWLKaT]

weeeeeee install dat shizznit and prove me that it's better than a turbo :D

[cclngthr]

I'll let you know how it goes during the install tomorrow :)

Keep an eye on this thread, and I plan to open up another thread with just the SC pics that I hope will become a locked sticky... we'll see :)


I'll have my AIM on my cell phone so we can discuss this. I am going to a meet tomorrow afternoon, and a lot of people are also interested this install.

[tharptroy]

you'd better be awake and outside by now, ford!

[Keyan]

I think this topic is so big that super should make a main-page post about it to celebreate.

[seraph0503]

696 posts and everyone is awake waiting for the install. we have issues.....

[ilanpro]

How is the install going??

did sed make it there?

[tharptroy]

damnit man, we need an update!

lol

[dragonfighter60]

I've been silently lurking in this thread for all 3 months waiting for this day to come. Wish you the best man. but for the sake of all members here UPDATE!!!! (seems like we are more ancy than ford is about it. lol)

[mrhoaf]

i'm hoping no news is good news...... if he was having trouble, he'd be on here *****ing about it.....

[hyunelan2]

^^^ Yea, if I had a working supercharger recently installed, the last thing i would do is leave it sitting in the driveway while I played on the compuer.

[joeypasta]

If I could chime in my opinion; I would rather FF spend time doing this right, then posting updates. It is a pain in the rear to turn a few screws wash your hands, take a picture, post a picture and caption; then run outside and do that whole process over again. Also, you can lose your vibe for what you are doing, and that's when mistakes happen. I wish you luck FF! Take your time, do it right; then post detailed details.

[FordFasteRR]

blower installed.
had a few problems.

but its in and running.

i was unable to wire the unichip due to inadequate wiring diagram for it...

i will be installing the split second pcs1 tomorrow and then dyno tuning it on monday with the spec v stock injectors..

i did a few short runs in the parking lot just to see how it runs... it pegged the o2 sensor guage all the time so i know they can most likely handle full bost...

SED was @ my house since 8 am... we finished the main install around 4:30 pm ... we ran into problems and had to pull the bracket off to grind it ... we had to cut a bunch of shizzle cuz the tb spacer was too far to the right and nothing fit.. i had to rig an SRI on there just temporarily.. brake booster vacume line had to be hacked ....

it was just a pain... but its done !

here are some pics:

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010001.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010002.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010003.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010004.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010005.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010006.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010007.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010008.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010009.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010010.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010011.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010012.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010013.jpg

[tharptroy]

sweet, cant wait to see what it'll do

[slow 2K2GT]

WOOT WOOT!!!! Whats the butt dyno say?

[FordFasteRR]

butt dyno says lots of torque in the mid range... tons :)

but we'll just have to wait until monday for the dyno :)

[EVOXD]

looks good dude.

[sed]

ok for everyone's reference.

This kit is 100% not a one man job. THERE IS NO WAY that one person alone could have done this job as succesfully as we did.

There are a couple of problems that we encountered: There is not enough room for a CAI because of the intake manifold inlet.

The Brake booster vacuum line had to be modified.

The main charger bracket had to be cut down significantly to make clearance for the AC belt.

The support bracket on the back of the blower that goes to the block doesn't fit because of a High Pressure AC line.

uhm The Piggyback unit couldn't be installed because we got no wiring diagrams, only connecter with tape on them that said, Map sensor, tps sensor etc, but no color codes!

lol, i hope Ford appreciates the ****,
it wasn't a super hard install, but this not for your average joe

Have a great night people, I am going to drink some Jager and go to sleep

shawn :)

[FordFasteRR]

we also had to drill out 2 of the TB holes with a 3/8ths bit to fit properly on the 4 tb studs...


lol


we had to chop the spacer on the pass side engine bracket too..

lots of extra work.. we had to grind a 1/4 inch off of the blower pulley bracket to clear the a/c belt as shawn said...

tricky sucker... and dont even get me started on the unichip...

[Nyck]

Congrats guys!!!! Now i know where to take mine when i need it installed :):) 3 hour drive down south :)

[dragonfighter60]

:drool: Thats some sweet stuff there. Can't wait for the dynos. :D

[ilanpro]

Looks great Ford, How is the sound??

Compared to NO2, is it ridiculously fast??


For the CAI do you have a 90 degree elbow there?? did it come with the kit??

You should address Alpine with all the setbacs you had for them to fix them

[Tricked]

So I guess it was designed without using AC. :thumbsdow
On the other hand, looks like lots of power. :thumbsup:

[CTele02]

So since you had to do all these extra fitment modifications, do you think that the Alpine guys SHOULD HAVE done all these things before? And maybe you should tell them about all these little things you had to do or alter, so that if they make more they can give the next lucky guy an easier time, thus making their kit more "bolt on" and less hassle. Well in the end the dyno will tell!

[rckozma]

Sweet, well I am glad to see that sed (shawn) was able to get up since he was both wasted and up late last night - haha. Good job both of you.

[cclngthr]

I think the unichip will solve the o2 sensor issue and possibly you should have more power then. Did the Beta 2 tb fit? Man, that is real close to the brake master cylindar.

Edit:

I think there is a different way to redo the brake booster vacuum line. Instead of having it do up, you can put a elbow going down by cutting off the portion where it goes up, and redo it that way, which is what I would do.

I think the intake I have would fit. It has a fairly tight 90 degree bend where it slides onto the TB.

[hyunelan2]

This is probably one of the most beautiful pictures I've ever seen of an elantra:
http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010013.jpg

Congrats, and keep up the good work. Good luck on that unichip, and at the Dyno.

[seraph0503]

she's so beautiful.... so how do i get to hollywood from tallahassee. anyone ready for a FL meet?

[OdessitPashka]

congratulations man!

[tapehands]

so when're you guys opening up shop to do installs for the rest of us? :D hahaha

[NorthernYankee]

Hey Ford do you have a close-up pic of the TB installed so we can get a reference of how you modded that area.

Man that is one sweet lookin engine bay!

--NY

[sed]

lol, I don't ever want to do that again with the same kit. If alpine fixes all the bull**** problems, then the whole install with unichip and everything Ford and I could do in 2-4 hours. BUT Because we had to modify so many things, and because we have no unichip diargram.

You guys also need to know that we orignally wired the 5th injector on a WOT switch to just dump fuel at WOT. WAY too much fuel, she bogged then flooded.

We aren't going to the the 5th for right now, he has the upgraded Sentra SPEC V injectors on there and he still stays rich. There is of course going to be a lean spot somewhere on the torque curve, but we can fix that @ the dyno when we install that 3d fuel mapped.

all in all it was a great day, we had fun, got to hang out with my friends, and installed a supercharger! And i had like 15 beers, so 10/10 for yesterday :)

shawn :)

[joeypasta]

Great job guys! In my opinion, Alpine owes you big time for help in developing their product. When they ask you how the install went, and how they can improve their product, then I would tell them; "What's in it for me?"

[dmdicks]

What size is the Spec V injectors again? How much boost is the blower pushing?

Ford what I had to do to make a diagram was take the diagram Alpine sent, which was of a 2000 Tib and used webtech to map what wires go to what Pins on the OEM ECU. Kinda of a pain but works fine.

And yes you should call John on Monday and tell him of your pains to at least get some cash back.

[FordFasteRR]

i am told that the specv injectors are 310 cc.

I have no way of testing them so I dont know... however, its safe to assume that they are at least 280 or 290 cc...

perhaps since our cars run @ 50 psi... a 290 cc injector will flow like 311 cc...

that explains why its so rich..

now I have to get out there and tune my fuel curve. .. the trick is to get the short term fuel trim to cancel out when compared to the value of the long term fuel trim..

say the short term fuel trim is -15 and the long term fuel trim is -20...
so together they are giving you a 35% value, that is way too rich and the ecu is working too hard to pull fuel...

instead, what I need to do for a good idle base map is to alter the map input in a way that the stft is like -10 and the ltft is like +10 and then they cancel out to zero, i've read that its almost impossible to get it to actually perfectly balance out.. but the idea is to get them as close as possible to get a good idle with bigger injectors :)

[ilanpro]

So how is the sound and the response

[FordFasteRR]

So how is the sound and the response

it sounds neat.. just like any other SC sound ...

i just did some tuning with my ARC1 fuel tuner and i seem to have it almost perfect... I just want to take it to the dyno so bad just to be sure ! LOL

So I have not yet installed the 3d map based fuel controller...

but I will if it comes up with lean spots on the dyno...

______________

damn... its running so good now... I used my obd2 interface to set the fuel trims to almost perfect !!

i looked closely at the o2 sensor ( I know, narrow band) but thats all i have to work with until monday for a basic tune..

the transition from idle to WOT is instant rich on the guage...

the long term fuel trims are at -20% which is 20% richer ...

the short terms stay at around 15% while cruising .. so that is almost perfectly balanced out ...

I have to say... the spec-v injectors are perfect for this thing !!!

damn the torque is so sweet, I did a quick 1-2-3 pull to 6500 in each gear. .. it felt like it did the 1/4 mile a lot faster than stock !!!

I guess after I dyno tune, I'll be going to the drag strip !!!

:)

[sed]

thats great news!

now, get to the dyno tomorrow and tune that ***** up :)

shawn :)

[ilanpro]

Steve for old time sake do a g-tech run

[2004ElantraGLS]

This is great. I'm really happy for you, now that everything seems to be coming together. This has been greatly anticipated by all of us. Income tax is right around the corner, and I'm starting to wonder if I have the willpower to keep myself from investing in the Alpine Blower.

If I do decide to get it, I'll be using the information gathered here to make sure all the errors are corrected before they send me the unit. Again, that is a big IF. $2900 for the blower is all well and good, but I'm looking at some injectors, a clutch, and some form of fuel tuner as well, so things will add up quickly.

Again, great job man!!!

Just curious...where did you get the Sentra injectors, and how much did they cost you?

Regards,
Axel

[cclngthr]

I wonder if the stock injectors plus the 5th injector would work fine? Since the Sentra injectors have a larger CC level, I doubt you will need to hook up the 5th injector.

[FordFasteRR]

I wonder if the stock injectors plus the 5th injector would work fine? Since the Sentra injectors have a larger CC level, I doubt you will need to hook up the 5th injector.

well, the 5th injector is a 65 lb.hr unit.. that is enough for 125 extra hp..

however I am not even using it at this time, i'm only using the spec-v injectors on the stock returnless fuel system with stock fuel pump... apparently the 50 psi stock pressure is enough to keep the system running rich under full boost ..

the fuel tuning is minimal... and it only took me 2 minutes to fine tune it with the obd2 scanner & the air/fuel guage.

I plan to fine-tune it on the dyno and if that fails to work then i'll just install the 3d map based fuel tuner that i already have instead... but it will still rely on the spec-v injectors and I wont even need the 5th one for anything.


I'm currently on the hunt for a good elbow to replace the one I used now... once i get that sorted out i can re-install my CAI and be a happy boy.

:)

[sed]

lol i'll answer your question Axel!

he got the injectors from a local spec-v owner who upgraded his for 25$...

shawn :)

[FordFasteRR]

here are more pics.

unfortunately the 90 degree intake elbow that I was using was too big...

I had to give in and do something that totally hate... I had to buy a 2 1/4 inch ID pvc pipe from home depot ..

lucky for me, it fits perfectly and all I have to do is spray-paint it black to hide the give-away-white-plastic color...

and finally.. the CAI is installed and fully functional.

SO SWEET !

here we go:

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010014.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010015.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010016.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010017.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010018.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010019.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010020.jpg

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/p1010021.jpg

[OdessitPashka]

looks great! Can you record some videos? I wanna hear it :)

[FordFasteRR]

looks great! Can you record some videos? I wanna hear it :)

I have to look into getting a camera from someone..

my brother in law has a digital cam but it only has a ieee1394 interface & my pc only has USB 2.0 interfaces...

damn :(

i think SED told me something about his dvd player can burn dvds on the fly or osmething so i'll look into this ...

:)

[DubyaO]

Ford...TOTALLY cool! So, I'm driving down this spring to Tampa, I'll swing by and see if you can help me install an SC too. PLEEEEEASE?! :-)

[civictypr]

Can someone please give me the website for this alpine SC? Im intrested in one for my 04 gls auto! Smething that will help move the car out fo the way yeah know!

[rckozma]

Ford...TOTALLY cool! So, I'm driving down this spring to Tampa, I'll swing by and see if you can help me install an SC too. PLEEEEEASE?! :-)

You will have to drive another 5 hours south to get to him, he is close to Miami, but it would be worth it.

[sed]

yeah ford, just like I told you and you forgot obviously my dvd burner has a DV input, hook a digividieocam to it and it'll burn dvds all day

i tell you, you'll forget your head if it wasn't for me

and i met paul o'neil and alice cooper tonight so i ****ing kick ***

shawn :)

[techcontib]

Good install Ford. To bad you had so many problems with install. Well if your not going to use the 5th inector you can always use that port for water injection.hehe. Can't wait for your dyno results with some tuning. I predict 173whp. ALso can you hook up a boost guage to see what psi your running and at what rmp. Mine hits 4.5 at about 3800 there abouts. I used a sears boost guage it has a 0-10 psi reading also has vacuum and you can use to test fuel pressure too. Anly cost 20 bucks. Good looking s/c though glad you like it.

[FordFasteRR]

i just drove to work this morning... car runs fine, no bucking, hesitating, stalling, flat spots, surging...

runs great !

I reset the ecu last night after re-installing the CAI ... and i observed the process by which the ecu re-learns the fuel curve with the big injectors & the fuel tuner ...

it takes about 5 miles and about 20 minutes of idling for it to smoothen out completely...

but after that, its runs like a champ !

I can't wait to get on the dyno @ 11 am today and see how the air / fuel curve is on the wideband !

WISH ME LUCK ! !!!

:)

(Thanks for all your help SED & DAILLEST ) You guys rock !







I also thought i'd throw some more info @ the readers of this thread..

I have set the msd to pull 2 degrees of timing after 4000 rpms.
and I also set the soft rev limiter to 6500 rpms to make sure it kicks in before the oem fuel cut at 6650.. :)

SWEET !

[Keyan]

Ford, this is amazing what you've done. Inspired many :)

I think you should grab sed's DVD recorder and a camcorder and video tape the dyno.

[sed]

you are welcome my friend. :)

now, we just have to lower the compression and up the boost :)

[cclngthr]

Exactly.

[Keyan]

Just want to make note that this topic has over 2000 more views than the entire off-topic forum.

you're one lucky guy Ford.

Do us all a big favor and don't blow your pistons.

[OdessitPashka]

It's after 11am.... where are the results????

Keyan, where's the tiburon????

[Keyan]

Yeah, I want the results too :)

*offtopic*It's going away, OP. http://www.elantraxd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5676 */offtopic*

[FordFasteRR]

ouch.

only 14 whp gain & only 13 ft.lb torque more @ the wheels :(

The fuel curve is spot on as you can all see from the dyno sheet... I guess i'll be having a chat with alpine today. Cuz I paid $ 215. per horsepower gain...

http://nitrousworld.com/images/alpine_blower/alpine_blower.jpg

[yevRPS]

ouch :-/

[mrhoaf]

wow.......

[sed]

he doesn't even say that i was with him, huh

no respect it tell you, no respect

shawn :)

[NorthernYankee]

Ouch is right.

--NY

[techcontib]

Did you happen to see what boost your running at. Something is wrong with that. I suspect not running the right amount of boost. Also you said awhile back you have the cam advanced is it still that way?

[FordFasteRR]

alpine says that the reason i'm seeing such low boost.. approx 4.5 psi at 2000 rpms and it drops to about 2 1/2 at redline is because i still dont have enough back-pressure on my exhaust system.

their test cars all had cats and slightly smaller diameter exhaust pipes...

he siad the easy way to do it is to use a flange between one of the exhaust connectors with a smaller diameter hole drilled in it than the id of the pipe itself..

i guess thats what i'll have to try :)

[sed]

**** man, now we have to unbolt the exhaust system? That does make sense though... why didn't we think of that?

[techcontib]

Its still doesn't seem right but then again your running better stock headers than me. I am running 4.5 psi all the way through. I only have a custom catback 2 1/4 exhaust. Maybe those stock headers flow pretty good afterall. You should at least be at my whp level. The 5th injecter also adds as air cooling agent. I hope you get the issues worked out. But you are at about the same hp I had with no 5th injector and running a real custom ecu.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/305000-305999/305770_16_full.jpg
I know you know this already but it is possible the bypass valve is staying open a tad as well.

[FordFasteRR]

I just spoke to alpine... they said that they will provide me with the unichip wiring diagram and that it should make a big difference too..

they said that the unichip has a great timing re-map on it that actually brings up the timing on the high rpms and that really wakes the motor up..

they are gonna send me the correct wiring diagram for the unichip, so i'm gonna give that a try :)

[ilanpro]

Ouch man!!!!! I was hoping for at least 185WHP

[techcontib]

I just spoke to alpine... they said that they will provide me with the unichip wiring diagram and that it should make a big difference too..

they said that the unichip has a great timing re-map on it that actually brings up the timing on the high rpms and that really wakes the motor up..

they are gonna send me the correct wiring diagram for the unichip, so i'm gonna give that a try :)
I really hope that fixes the issue. Cause if not I would get my money back or replace with the turbo kit. I know how you feel man. I was bummmed when I first saw my hp figures then very happy after the unichip was back in.

[FordFasteRR]

well john said the boost is dropping because the belt is slipping on the pulley... he said i should tighten it a little more and see if it helps too :) hehehe

[tharptroy]

if the torque (150-lb ft)stayed there until the redline, you would be at 185whp

I sure hope you pick that up in timing and (HOPEFULLY) the belt is slipping.