Computer people, CPU question

[hyunelan2]

Ok, first here's my current setup

AMD Athlon 950
ECS K7VZA (pcb 3)
Crucial 512 MB PC133
ATI Rage Fury Pro 32MB (My GE4 TI 4200 isn't cooperating).

History: I woke up one morning and the computer wouldn't boot. After narrowing down possibilities I removed my GeForce 4 TI4200 and replaced it with my older ATI Rage Fury Pro. It then would boot fine, so I assumed the video card went bad and moved on with my life.

Yesterday I received my new CPU (Duron 1.3GHz @ 200FSB) - even though the Ebay ad said it was an Athlon -grrr. Anyway, I put in the Duron and I had no boot, and no video. So I took out the Duron and put the Athlon 950 in and still no video. I removed the video card and replaced it and it booted fine. So I pulled the Athlon and tried the Duron again with no luck. Everytime I try booting with the Duron the drives will fire (unlike booting with no CPU) but there is no video and the system does not boot.

My question is this: WTF? Is the new Duron chip I received bad? Is there a problem with it because it's a 200FSB Processor and my memory is 133 only (can't turn it down to 100) - i.e. do I need the 266FSB CPU? Or do I have a problem with my board? I don't know exactly what the problem is at the moment, and would appreciate suggestions.

Oh, and I should mention the K7VZA does not have manual jumper settings for BUS speed, it's an autosensing board.

Thanks guys.

[TNT4ME]

It could be as easy as resetting the CMOS (jumper) so that it "Learns" that it has a new chip. Can't hurt to try. Set the jumper to reset, power up for 30 secs, power down, put jumper back to original, power up.

[hyunelan2]

Good idea, I'll put that near the top of my list of things to try tonight.

[CuddleBug1899]

umm. control alt delete. :confused: lol sorry

[ButterBean]

Also, you would want to pull the CMOS battery (just to be on the safe side) when you pull the jumper

[archywills]

:crash_com I'm with cuddles on this one.

Did you try taking the battery out, running around the building 20-30 times and then putting it back in? My office dell went nuts one time (most likely not the same issue as your having). Aafter spending hours and hours on the phone w/ tech support with no luck, it's what we did that kinda made it all better. Worked fine after that.

[TNT4ME]

NOOOOOOO...IF you pull the battery you better have some flash software handy, some computers lose everything if the battery is removed and need to be "flashed" , causing even more problems.. The jumper keeps the flash software but will discover new devices such as chip, hard drive, etc, etc

Also if it was your RAM (I don't think it is), most computers start beeping because it reconizes that the RAM is incorrect.

Lastly, where a static wrist band. ($2). Chips and cards are VERY sensitive to static discharge. (you should do this anytime your inside the computer working)

[tapehands]

try getting the most recent bios for your motherboard...sometimes, motherboards can't physically recognize newer revisions of processors until they've got the bios to match it...

here (http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWeb/Downloads/ProductsDetail_Download.aspx?DetailID=186&DetailName=BIOS&DetailDesc=K7VZA(3.0)&MenuID=45&LanID=0) is the page for your motherboard..

it also may be a good idea to make sure that your bios is already the most current (that way you aren't flashing into the same bios...this would save time...)...ahhh...probably going into bios would tell you that...it's been too long since i've messed with that stuff to tell you exactly, though -X haha

and as an edit, yeah. pulling the cmos battery won't do you a bit of good -P that's what reset jumpers are for X_x
if anything, i think they say to turn the psu off/pull the power plug when you're doing that? yeah. can't remember, yet again...if you check your manual, they should tell you exactly what to do in that case....haha

[Hyundia_90250]

:crash_com <----thats what I would recommend......

[BlackElantraGT]

If all else fails, considering your current setup is very outdated, any of the sub $100 packages on sale at Fry's every week would be a major upgrade to your system.

[JuMpMaN6235]

Your mobo Does accept Duron right?.... there are many that accept athlon, that dont accept duron, same with athlon xp

[hyunelan2]

Yea, the board accepts duron and athlon processors, as well as Athlon XP (if the board was made after the 40th week). It is outdated, but does what I need for home use (surfing, burning CD's, Word). I was trying to avoid the new MB/CPU route so I didn't have to buy new memory (current uses PC133). I figured picking up an extra 350MHz for $30 would be a good option.

We're buying a new laptop next summer, but that's mainly for my wife to use for work... this is my music/internet computer, which is also why I didn't want to spend a ton on it.

[SWortham]

It seems like you need to be running the memory at 100Mhz.

For example,
If you set it at 133 and you have a 200MHz CPU the system will not post!!!
http://www.duxcw.com/dcforum/DCForumID5/311.html

Is there a setting in the CMOS or as a jumper for your motherboard which will let you select 100 or 133MHz?

Nevermind, just read your first post again. I guess you'll see what happens after you reset the CMOS settings.

[hyunelan2]

The additional confusing thing is the Athlon 950 processor currently working in the system is also a 200FSB, the same as the Duron. I have that working fine with the 133Mhz Memory speed (my crucial PC133 memory cannot operate at 100Mhz).

The part you quoted was about clock speed, not memory speed. I read down a little further and found this:
PC133 memory should run OK on a 100 Mhz FSB

[BlackElantraGT]

Just like some other folks have suggested already, my first suggestion would be flashing your BIOS to the newest one (I'm assuming you have another computer to download the newest BIOS). After reflashing your BIOS, reset your CMOS. Before turning your computer back on, make sure you have the right clock AND multiplier settings. The problem with the duron and athlon xp processors was that they were named for their comparable P4 speed such as Athlon XP 2000+, but the processor was only running at say 1.6 ghz. I haven't fixed computers lately so I am kind of out of it at the moment, but I hope this helps.

[SWortham]

Interesting... somehow I thought there would be an incompatibility with the memory / FSB speed but it's been awhile since I've done this stuff.

[hyunelan2]

Here's some supporting detail from the Mobo's Manual:
The board has three DIMM sockets for the installation of 168-pin,
3.3V non-buffered DIMM memory modules. The DIMM memory
modules use SDRAM memory chips. The K7VZA mainboard
supports a memory bus of 100/133 MHz. When the processor is
running at 133 MHz, memory only operates at 133 MHz: when
the processor is running at 100 MHz, memory can operate at
100 MHz or 133MHz.

[mrhoaf]

One thing still bothers me with all of this...... what about the video card that just stopped working..... have you tried it again to make sure it isn't working? You may have a motherboard that is acting up.... and ECS boards aren't know for their outstanding quality....

One other thing to try is what I like to call Therepudic Dissasembly. It may sound stupid, but I have fixed computers simply by taking them apart, and putting them back together. Over time, expansion cards and other connections can work themselves loose and cause problems. This is a great way to make sure everything is properly seated and connected... and with the age of your system, I think it would be a good idea. Plus, it a good chance to grab a can of air and clean the system out really good.

[Jlivan]

umm. control alt delete. :confused: lol sorry

Same here! :abovelol:

I agree that beating the computer might not solve a whole lot but it sure will make you feel better. :D

[hyunelan2]

Ok, F this computer. I cleared the CMOS and that didn't change anything, the computer still wouldn't POST. The new thing that's pissing me off is that it won't update the BIOS. Even after I cleared everything (and it's not protected, I checked). I tried the Award Bios update program (boot disk) and it encountered "unknown flash type" errors. I tried winflash and it failed on 1%, verifying. I currently have BIOS 3.3b. I tired to flash 3.4, 3.6a, and 3.7 - which are all the updates listed on ECS' site.

SOOO... now what? I don't want to spend a whole lot on a new mobo/cpu/mem combo. I will try my GeForce 4 TI 4200 on my brother's computer to verify if that is dead or my board went gay. I'll put that Duron back on Ebay. I guess I could also sell my current mobo/cpu/mem when I get a new one too...

Any suggestions on a good (cheap/reliable) combo? Keep in mind, I'm an IT guy, but I don't need cutting edge power at home - that's what my work systems are for. I would like to retain as much of what I currently have. Here's what I've got:

Adaptec SCSI card (mainly for my external SCSI drive)
SIS RAID ATA/133 controller
GE4 TI4200 (4xAGP), and my older backup ATI Rage Fury Pro
typical PCI modem, and PCI network card
52x CDROM
4x48x52 DVD+RW
Maxtor 30 & 60 Gig ATA/100 hard drives.

... and of course, the K7VZA (ver 3, week 43), Athlon 950 (200fsb), 512mb Crucial PC133... and the Druon 1.3


I would prefer My new system have at least 512MB of RAM. Time to search...


EDIT: By the way, I'm using the computer right now with the Athlon 950, and it works just fine.

[BlackElantraGT]

Didn't they open a Fry's Electronics recently in the Chicago area? I'd say check with them, because they always have some weekly deal on an entry level mobo/cpu between $69-100. It's usually an ECS board with some kind of Athlon XP processor.

When updating BIOS, I've always used DOS. Boot into DOS mode, pop in your disk, and reflash BIOS.

[ButterBean]

Here you go, everything but an OS and a monitor, and for $199 pretty freakin good.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1169566&Sku=N52-3015%20H

Sorry my bad, didn't notice the rebate, it's $439.00 - 240.00 rebate = $199.00.
But you can look at a whole barebones system, probably not much more expensive than just getting mb/cpu combo and with the newer components you'd probably be looking at a system that would last a little bit longer.

[XWRed5W3]

I'm sure you want to trash your stuff, but a quick suggestion/question before you do.

You replaced the thermal paste every time you changed the processor, right? The Duron does run hotter at that speed, and if you had a shutdown temperature set in the BIOS, it might be exceeding it every time you turn it on. Meaning it'll never get to POST.

And is your Ti4200 done, or not? I'm confused.

[hyunelan2]

^^^Dunno about the Ti4200 yet... I thought it was done, but now suspect that it may be ok and it was the Mobo giving it problems.

I should have mentioned that I dislike intel, and hate Celeron, but thanks for the barebones link at tigerdirect. I'll probably look into some AMD barebones systems just for fun.

Does anyone know much about Biostar Motherboards? I've had MSI and ECS boards in the past, I liked ECS better, but can't say I've been thilled about it. I was also thinking, if I'm gonna go, might as well go for gold. I'll probably do a 400fsb Athon XP 3200 setup, with 512 of DDR400 for about $200 (best so far). I like the Biostar m7ncd for a mobo at the moment, but I have more to look at. Before I buy anything, I want to raise some more funds. As long as the current Athlon is running, I can wait a couple weeks.

[KeWLKaT]

Sorry, beats me! Modding PC's isn't as easy as modding cars :D

[BlackElantraGT]

Any idiot with a screwdriver can mod a PC. It's not that hard at all if you just opened up the computer and look at what's inside.

Hyunelan2, I haven't kept up with the market lately so I don't know what's hot or not, but Biostar has never been what most would consider to be a top motherboard manufacturer. If you want to shell out more money for the name brand, you probably want to look at Asus or Abit.

Go check out http://www.anandtech.com if you want info on all that kind of stuff.

[SWortham]

Asus has been good for a long time and it still is. MSI makes good motherboards as well.

[XWRed5W3]

Well, if you're going for the gold, you should do an athlon 64 setup then, NOT an XP. It's just not upgradeable anymore past the 3200.

Athlon 64 3000+ - http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80699-R - $147

Epox 8KDA3J - http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-123-219&depa=1 - $75

same pc3200 ram you were gonna get - priceless.

[hyunelan2]

I thought I had heard that the 64 bit processors had trouble running some of the 32 bit applications? Maybe not, but I did hear that before, which was why I was leaning towards the XP, over the 64. I'll need to research more.

[XWRed5W3]

The only trouble I'm aware of is with Service Pack 2, but everyone has trouble with that.

[hyunelan2]

OK, I'm deciding on what to buy right now. There are 2 choices really. Both of these would run a single chip of Crucial PC3200 memory, 512MB.

A. Athlon XP 3200+ (2.2GHz @ 400FSB) on Biostar M7NCD ($176 + RAM)

B. Athlon 64 2800+ (1.8 GHZ @ 1600FSB) on ECS 755-A2 ($186 + RAM)

[SWortham]

Athlon 64! :D

[hyunelan2]

Well, I'm doing better on selling on EBay than I anticipated. Now I'm leaning towards an Athlon 64 3000, with the FIC K8-800T Mobo.

[mrhoaf]

A few things I'd like to suggest.....

I wouldn't even recommend purchasing from Tiger Direct to a ricer.... I've been ripped off by them and know a few people personally who have had bad dealings with them. I've been doing business with Newegg.com for over a year and they've been great.

Stick with top name motherboards.... I built a PC for a friend a couple years ago on the cheap. He had trouble with it from day one until last month when I replaced the CPU, motherboard (an ECS) and memory. It's worth the few extra bucks to buy a Asus, Abit, Aopen, or MSI board and avoid the headaches of a cheap board. And you don't have to buy the best of the best either, but quality does matter. I've used Aopen boards for the last few systems I've built, and I've had Zero issues with them.

With memory, I say don't buy the cheapest, but you don't have to go far up the ladder to get something good.

As for CPU, go 64 if you can. M$ will release 64-bit windows later this year, which will really show off what these CPU's can do. And keep in mind that a OEM CPU is usually warranteed by the vendor for 30 days or so, and a retail packaged one comes with a heatsink/fan and a 3 year warranty, that's why they cost more....

If you have any questions or want specific suggestions, feel free to IM or PM me...

[XWRed5W3]

I still like my combo better. (Epox 8KDA3J and Athlon 64 3000+). The FIC board has firewire, but it only supports two sticks of DDR running at PC3200 speeds, not 3. It also doesn't have Gigabit ethernet. The Epox board also has a digital LED display that shows errors in hex code, with corresponding definitions in the manual. I think Epox is a better brand anyway, and the nVidia chipset will be much faster once they get some bios updates out. I'm not sure which qualities are more important to you, but that's just my two cents.