Older Elantra Headers

[Phiber]

I looked! This has been discussed before, as well. What year Elantra header was the one Ford and others were using? Also, performance vs. other headers? Yea, this is the cheap way; I am looking for opinions and facts. :) Thanks!

[FordFasteRR]

hmm...

i do not know of anyone else on this forum or any other that are using the old elantra header...

However, I would like to point out a few things.


The 1.8L header is not a direct bolt-on to the stock mid-pipe..

you actually have to replace the entire mid-pipe to make it fit... OR you can cut the flex section off of the 1.8L header and then mate it to the stock XD flex pipe...

also, the 1.8L header is very badly welded at the factory and will require some mild porting to " clean up " the nasty welding ...

for example, the 4-2 collector in the middle is so badly welded that almost 1/4 inch of the opening is blocked ... I corrected this by porting the welding material completely off, then having the muffler shop re-weld the OUTSIDE of the flange to keep it from falling off... this is not a big deal, and when I get my welding machine ( hopefully this week or next week) i'll be happy to do this kind of work for you at a low cost...

Also, I cleaned up the main ports of each runner at the main flange...

Also, These headers, when combined with a full exhaust & some kind of intake... will yield a slight power & torque gain of about 10w hp & 5-10 wtq :)

[Phiber]

Hmn. What is the best way to go, then? New midpipe or just cut and weld? I'd be happy to send you the header when you get your welder, if everything turns out to be cheaper. I dunno yet. I might be able to find a header for 300 to 400 beans. In that case all I need is a new O2 sensor hole. :)

[GTSTISL]

My mom has a 2000 elantra. Idk if that's old enough but i can check the specs on that if u need me to.

[Phiber]

It seems to me that it will probably be cheaper and more cost effective to go with a new, better header. What I would do anyways would be to go and buy a new one, anyways, and then have the proper mods done to it. :)

[FordFasteRR]

I agree... get yourself the forza header... :)

[Phiber]

I agree... get yourself the forza header... :)

Link? I did a mild search but could not find the Forza header listed anywhere for sale. :)

Uh, apparantly they are the same as OBX? ???

[2GTS]

Forza and OBX are the same.

[FordFasteRR]

well the only forza header that i saw does not look like the obx...

lets get some links / pictures posted on this thread please... anybody ?

[jrod13]

are the OBX ones decent at all i was looking at the hotshot one opinions. plus i would like to learn more about the forza as well

[Phiber]

The OBX look pretty nice. And for around 350 it's a decent deal. :) I've got this here project in the works...

[2GTS]

OBX quality is no where near that of Hotshots. For $350 I hope you're getting the Hotshot header and not OBX. You can get the OBX for $165 or less off ebay.

[Phiber]

O_o How much can you obtain a Hotshot for, then? BTW, I hate @ ebay.

[oregun]

A Hot shot header can be had for right around $335. They are ceramic coated and (from everyone I've asked) more or less bolt right up to the stock mid pipe. This is the easiest solution for a header. However, the collector is 2", which is a bit small for my taste, and the 4-1 design isn't going to help me 95% of the time.

I'm going with the Kspec Header. And there's a group buy going on:
http://www.elantraxd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2791

After looking around (literally for 5 months) I've decided on this header (and was deciding between RPW, Hotshot, and Kspec) for the following reasons.

1) Nice Thick SS tubing = less buzzing (compared to OBX/ SSautochrome)
RPW is mild steel and so is the one sold on HP.Com
2) It comes with a new flex pipe that is 2.5". Seriously, this is worth the extra money. *see discussion below
3) Price. The group buy is a really good deal.

I'm going to install a 2.5" hi-flow cat after the header system, then everything behind that will be 2.25 inches.
______________________________________
Okay, my random babble and thoughts on exhaust system design. No offense to anyone.

I read a lot of posts and realize that some of the exhaust systems being purchased and or being made from universal parts are not being integrated properly to create the best results.
The biggest example I will point out has to do with pipe diameter and the transitions between different components.

Here are a few points to keep in mind:

1) The biggest restriction of any exhaust system is the Cat converter. Stock or modified. With a completly custom/ free flowing exhaust system, the engine will hardly "see" anything behind the Cat, except a stock muffler
2) The stock muffler is the second biggest restriction.
3) 2.25 - 2.5" is about as big as you want to go unless you have a turbo.

So. If your only component was a Hotshot header (bolted up to the stock flex pipe) - you have a 2" collector mated to a 1.875 inch midpipe - this makes sense, as you want the biggest piping towards the engine.

Now, let say you install a header and a cat back system (which means the stock midpipe and cat-converter stay on the car). Now you are running a 2 inch header into 1.875" piping and converter and then transition to relatively large 2.25-2.5 inch piping and finally a low restriction muffler. Well, unless you are going for looks, the same gains can be had with simply replacing the muffler (which is the actual restriction). Take home message: for cost vs. power benifits, just replace the muffler (yes, there is an argument for the tiny restriction due to the crush bends, but in terms of pipe diameter, remember, the weakest link in this system is you mid-pipe and cat.)

Now, you are going all out - replacing everything from head to tail.
Well, here the hot shot header might not be the best thing to install because you are obviously going to use something bigger than 2" for the rest of the system. In doing so, the biggest pipe restriction would be in the first part of your system. So, by using for example the Kspec or RPW header, which has a 2.5" collector, you will get better performance from the entire exhaust system. Then you can stay 2.5 inches all the way out, or, like me step down to 2.25 inches after the cat. I am going with this route because
1) the engine will hardly " see" anything behind the cat.
2) at this point in the exhaust system, the gasses will have cooled a bit, and will take up less room
3) I *believe* that it will yield more power by keeping the exhaust gas velocity higher.
4) It will weigh and cost less.

The take home message is to utilize the bigger piping towards the engine. Using free flowing pipe at the end of the system is totally negated if you have a restriction in front of it.

[Phiber]

o_o Alright. KSpec it is. I have already a high flow cat and full exhaust from there back. All I am missing is the header.

[Jmontigny]

Why are you all still convinced a header is actually worth putting on an Elantra?

A header offers no proven HP gain on the Elantra.
You WILL loose torque. (expect about a 10ft/lb loss)
You void the powertrain warranty.
The exhaust will make lots of ridiculous noise.
In some cases people are cutting up a $1200 flex pipe assembly.
Most people get a constant check engine light.


So why the big need to spend $150-600 for something that does so many negative things to your car?

[GTSTISL]

Wow, good points Jay. that really makes me not want headers. :bowdown:

[FordFasteRR]

132 whp sae corrected ???

hmm... thats like 10 hp more than stock sae whp right ?

it cant be from the short ram ... I tell you what. :)


lets pretend the header gives you no gain in tq or hp... then how did I end up with a gain ?


just the gutted cats & cat-back ?

[oregun]

Jay- As "weird" as Bradley's dyno day was with the cat back, he got 11 HP and 14 ft lbs. of torque out of their 4-2-1 header. http://www.evofusionusa.com/TeamSR/dyno/01elantra-headerdyno.JPG

Yes, he is trying to sell a product. But that is a totally respectable and expected gain from a 4-2-1 header.

Also, my theory on the CEL - too much heat is lost from the exhaust gas before it gets to the Cat. People with ceramic coated headers don't get the CEL - and my headers are getting shipped straight to Jet Coat.

[Jmontigny]

You can have 130-132 sae whp with the stock exhaust manifold easy. And yes the short ram is probably the reason for your gain. In order to achieve the 130-132 sae hp you only need to change the intake setup and change the exhaust after the stock exhaust manifold. Plus you played with fuel a little to achieve the 132 right? That was my next step because I really feel that proper fuel and timing adjustments are worth an easy 10hp and 10ft/lbs.

You NEED the stock exhaust manifold with cat intact, not gutted, to maintain 130+ ft/lb of torque.

Removing the second cat and using a high flow muffler seem to add about 2-3hp.

Remember that I dynoed with a 60mm exhaust at 131 sae whp. On one runb we installed the silencer which only lets the motor breathe through a 1 3/8" tailpipe. The hp only dropped 2hp and torque was also about a 1 or 2 ft/lb drop.

Someone should do the calculation for the amount of air that is going into our 2.0L motor spinning 6000rpm vs the needs of a 2.0L turning 8000rpm. Honda's can actually ingest huge amounts of air that will benefit from headers on the exhaust side. The Beta head is what is holding the normally aspirated people back. Torque is the Beta motors strong suit and adding a header does not benefit that based on every dyno I have seen from a Beta using a header.

Jay- As "weird" as Bradley's dyno day was with the cat back, he got 11 HP and 14 ft lbs. of torque out of their 4-2-1 header. http://www.evofusionusa.com/TeamSR/Hyundai/01elantra-header.html

Yes, he is trying to sell a product. But that is a totally respectable and expected gain from a 4-2-1 header.

Also, my theory on the CEL - too much heat is lost from the exhaust gas before it gets to the Cat. People with ceramic coated headers don't get the CEL - and my headers are getting shipped straight to Jet Coat.

Not even going to open up the Bradley can of worms again. :rolleyes:

You have an excellent point about the heat. Could be a big reason for the problems.

[oregun]

Yes the exhaust side of the Beta head was designed by a 2 year old. But *any* engine will benifit from a header. Especially, in our case, where you get rid of a cat.

It dosen't have to do with flow/ pipe diameter/ restriction. It's more about the scavanging effect. And that - will definately help on the exhaust side of the engine. Not to mention that it improves the intake side of the engine during valve overlap.


Oh - Jay is completley correct on the Noise. It will be much louder. Even more so if you use a crappy, thin unit like the OBX or SSA. I, for one, cannot stand noise (it interferes with the enjoyment of my stereo)

However, since the whole exhaust will be replaced in my case - I'm installing a 30 inch resonator (maybe 36 if it will fit).

[Jmontigny]

Well that all sounds good in theory but I have yet to see anything that proves that with an Elantra. I have been watching people try to tune a Beta motor since 1998 and have seen quite a few respectable dyno runs that fail to show a header making any more than a couple hp. At the same time all the dyno runs seem to show a decrease in torque. In some cases a significant drop in torque is evident.

With the stock cams and the pathetic exhaust port a header is not helping. Change the cams and modify the exhaust ports and it may be a different story however.

[Phiber]

o_o; When you say modify the exhaust side of the heads.. :) How?

[oregun]

o_o; When you say modify the exhaust side of the heads.. :) How?

Jay is referring to having them ported and polished.

[Phiber]

Oh. Haha, right. Not enough gains for that type of money. I'd use a dremel before I spent that kind of money.

[Jmontigny]

You would need to have a machine shop try to rework the exhaust port on the cylinder head. It is not a job a rookie should tackle. There are coolant veins that are at an unknown depth that you need to make sure you don't hit. There are a couple people trying to have heads reworked but I have not heard the results as of yet. I know they have it figured out in Korea already. Your best bet is too find a spare head for a machine shop to do the work on and then you don't have to worry about the head on your car being ruined. Expect a reputable quality shop to charge from $500-800 for that kind of job which would also include some bowl work and valve work.

[Phiber]

You would need to have a machine shop try to rework the exhaust port on the cylinder head. It is not a job a rookie should tackle. There are coolant veins that are at an unknown depth that you need to make sure you don't hit. There are a couple people trying to have heads reworked but I have not heard the results as of yet. I know they have it figured out in Korea already. Your best bet is too find a spare head for a machine shop to do the work on and then you don't have to worry about the head on your car being ruined. Expect a reputable quality shop to charge from $500-800 for that kind of job which would also include some bowl work and valve work.

That's not so bad. Where do you think I could picka head up from? :)

[tharptroy]

carbonman may have one...

it would be neat to see what a properly made header would do for the beta, but the gains would probably still be negligable.

[XDGT03]

I agree about the heat.

oregun, where are you getting yours coated at and how much?

Head sucks. What happened to Carbon's flow testing? Gave up on it all I guess.

[oregun]

I am going to use Jet-Hot. I talked with them and if 10 items get sent in, they will give us 30% off (even if we don't get 10 - there is a 10% discount). I invited the guy I was talking with to officially offer the group price and he will sign up on 12/15 to do so (when he gets back from a show).
Normally it's $165 for a 4cyl header - double coated, inside and out. ($110 for an intake manifold and $90 for a turbo manifold incase anyone else cares.