My exhaust project

[2004ElantraGLS]

There are like 6 or 7 of these Posts floating around here...notice that? lol

Anyway, I've got a Header(4-2-1) coming in about 10 to 14 days. After the downpipe I'll be using a High-Flow cat, relocated O2 sensor, a Magnaflow Resonator, and a Dynomax 3-chamber muffler.

I went to a shop today to get an idea of how much they'd charge me, and the dude told me $607....plus tax. I pointed out that I would be providing the Header, and installing it as well. He nodded and told me $607....plus tax. I went on to say that I don't need any of the components to be chrome or have a polished finish, and he again said $607....plus tax.

So I said, "Ok, do me a favor and break it down for me...one piece at a time." This is what he tells me...

High-Flow Cat: $199
Magnaflow Resonator: $59
Dynomax 3-chamber muffler: $130
Pipes: $68
Labor: $150

Turns out the pipes they use are crush bent....I want a mandrel bent system. Long story short, there aren't any shops in this damn city that do mandrel bends. Not one . So I tell the guy that I could find all of the parts much cheaper, and all I'd need them to do is supply the pipes and labor. The price then came down to $218. Much more managable, but still I think it's a little high. That's the problem with living in Tallahassee. All these businesses cater to students, most of which seem to be rolling around in their parents money so everyone ups their prices. :mad:

In any event, I'll be ordering the cat and resonator tomorrow. I've already found a Dynomax muffler for $34.99 at the autoparts store ;)

One piece at a time. I'll keep you updated, and hopefully, I'll figure out how to post pics when it's installed. Hoping to get this done before January....keep your fingers crossed.

Axel

[OdessitPashka]

crush bent sux as$. go ask them what mandrel pipes they will need to fabricate the piping for you and just order them.

[oregun]

crush bent sux as$.

OD - no offense to you. Seriously.

This gets said all the time and I am so sick and tired of this god damn RUMOR going around. There is nothing wrong with getting a crush bent system. People are going from a 1 7/8 inch system to 2 1/4 or 2 1/2. By the end of the exhaust, where the actual "sharp" bends will be located, it won't matter a bit.

Where it matters is before the cat. And most headers that you buy that include the flex pipe have mandrel bends.

[OdessitPashka]

oregun, I have crush bent on my XD and it sux as$. I'm talking from experience. and those bends near your rear wheel will hurt it a lot! Those bends made the pipe very small and with wrinkles.

[FordFasteRR]

High-Flow Cat: $199
Magnaflow Resonator: $59
Dynomax 3-chamber muffler: $130
Pipes: $68
Labor: $150



This is completely bull****.

why do you need a high flow cat ? your are in florida... no emissions testing .... forget about that.

resonator ?

Why do you need a resonator with a 3 chamber muffler ?

168 labor ? for what ? 30 minutes ? they charge $236 per hour of labor ? **** THAT !

those people suck, and be sure to let them know that they suck. lol

[OdessitPashka]

damn ford! did you come out of a closet? you sound very mad!

although you are right on many things.

[oregun]

OD - What diameter crush bent do you have? Honestly - unless you are making 200whp, your engine won't know the difference between 2 1/4 crush or mandrel. And even if it was more than 2 hp, the difference in cost could easily be used to for a different modification that would produce more power.

Don't you also have the obx headers? What muffler do you have. Stock cat? I doubt it's the pipe. (Unless someone just did an absoultly crappy job making your bends) A good crush bender -i.e. one that can bend 14 guage stainless steel - will do an absolutely fine job making your pipe. Especially if you go with softer alumized steel which would be fine in Florida.

As the shop if they can bend 14 guage stainless. If they say "no, thats tough, we'll crack the piping" go somewhere else.

Oh and a good places to buy exhaust stuff are:
fle-online.com and www.usdieselparts.com

[OdessitPashka]

I have 2 1/4 aluminized steel with OBX 4-2-1 header and a high flow cat and a straight through muffler.

I've driven auto xd with the same setup as mine and a real exhaust and I felt a huge difference. The whole exhaust will offer you 5hp max, so those 2hp is a lot!

[BlueRush]

When you say "real exhaust", what do you mean?

I currently have an Evo Fusion 2.25" cat back exhaust and that's it. I don't plan to turbo, and if I do stray from NA tuning, it'll be a mild(5-7psi) boost supercharger. So will an OBX header and 2.25" high flow cat be alright? Would that be a "real exhaust"?

[2004ElantraGLS]

Thanks for the input guys.

Ford, their are two reasons why I want to go with a High-flow cat. One being the fact that I don't feel like looking at a CEL, and the other is the fact that I'd like it to help me get the proper exhaust note. This is also where the resonator comes in. I'm affraid that if I go with just a Header, pipe, and a Dynomax, it'll sound like ****. Most people here seem to be using a Resonator to eliminate this problem.

About the CEL issue. The guy at the shop said he's seen some Mustang drivers using...I think he called it an "MIT Eliminator"? Basicly it's a resistor that goes inline with the O2 sensor and prevents the CEL from coming on. But I haven't seen anyone else here use one and I don't want to spend money on it and it not work for the Elantra.

Do you guys think I could reuse the stock cat? I don't plan on Super/Turbocharging my engine....as much as I'd like to. The most my engine will ever produce is probably 130hp.

My goal here is to end up with an exhaust system that flows freely with just enough backpressure to keep my engine happy....and a nice exhaust note. None of this stuff has to be Stainless steel or polished.

I'll wait to order any parts till I get some more input. Keep it comin, guys.

And thanks!

Axel

[BlueRush]

BTW 2004ElantraGLS, I love my cat-back exhaust from Evo Fusion. I know $400 is alot for a cat-back, but it's a perfect fit, it sounds mellow, but when you get on it, it opens up into a throaty sound.

or you could try something along these lines:

www.summitracing.com

High flow cat 2 1/2" in - 2 1/2" out - CTO-2506R - $58.99

Ractive SS turbo muffler - 2 1/2" in - dual 3" out - TCN-MT226 - $139.95

Headers - $155 - 400

Labor - 1-2 hours - $80

Total - $300 + header

add headers and get a local shop (ie.. not Midas unless you know someone there) to plumb it together w/ the header of your choice.


My OBX 4-2-1 header is on it's way

[2004ElantraGLS]

BTW 2004ElantraGLS, I love my cat-back exhaust from Evo Fusion. I know $400 is alot for a cat-back, but it's a perfect fit, it sounds mellow, but when you get on it, it opens up into a throaty sound.

It's just too expensive. If all I wanted was a Cat-back, I could get one custom made for less than half the price, I'm sure. I know the Evo Fusion is a high quality system, but I really have no need for all that polished steel. Besides that, I don't like those types of mufflers. There are so many Hondas in this town with those mufflers that I damn near gag everytime I see/hear one. I'd prefere mine to be hidden in the stock location. Thanks for the input though, and I'm glad you're enjoying it. Now how's about topping it off with an Evo Fusion 4-2-1 Header? I think I've seen them for about $245 on Ebay.

Axel

[BlueRush]

LOL

I know what you mean about the honda's, and mine will be hidden after the body mods, or atleast not hangin down under the car like it now.

My OBX is on the way. I was editing my previous post but you beat me!

A buddy of mine has that same Ractive muffler on his Dodge intrepid he's workin on modin, and it's sounds so SWEET! I was jealous for so long hearin him across the street in the garage workin on the damn thing.

[deillest1]

which shop you went to because they driving me crazy out here too

[OdessitPashka]

I was talking about evo fusion exhaust. no cats, no resonator, sounded like an airplane, but was powerful!

[2004ElantraGLS]

Well, like I said...I've got the OBX coming, and I bought a Dynomax muffler today for $34. Now all I need is a High-flow cat and a Resonator, unless someone talks me out of it.

Also, I've been thinking about this whole Mandrel vs. Crush-bent issue. I think oregun has a point. Our engine probably don't make enough power to benefit much from a Mandrel-bent system. I know, 2 HP is a lot when talking about our engines, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. The way people around here do crush bends is with one single indentation...no more than 1/4 of an inch at the most. They don't bend it with all those wrinkles in there. So I think even having 2 inches in the bends, maybe 2 and 1/8 isn't that bad.

Axel

[BlueRush]

Yeah, the Evo Fusion exhaust removes the factory resonator, and I am going to leave it off when I do the header/cat swap, I think that'll give it enough backpressure while freeing it up in the higher rpm range.

And as you said, you'll not be going all out, so I would say crush bent 2 1/2" would be almost equal to 2 1/4" mandrel bent which is what I have now.

[2004ElantraGLS]

deillest1, I'm talking about Sulvey's Automotive on Capitol Circle, just past the Airport before you get to Hwy 20. I've also gone to Mighty Muffler on South Monroe and they are pretty steep too. And they all look at me like I'm crazy....like they've never heard of a Performance Exhaust System before. Irritating, that is.

By the way, we need to meet up sometime, man. Hit me up with a PM and I'll shoot you my Cell #

Axel

[OdessitPashka]

if you'll increase size of your exhaust by 1/4 or 1/8 of an inch.... you might as well stay with stock exhaust!

[BlueRush]

That cat from summit is what I'll be using with my header, only in the 2 1/4" version as I will be NA tuning primarily.

and he'll be increasing it 1/2" correct, as stock is 2" crush bent. Am I correct or no?

[2004ElantraGLS]

if you'll increase size of your exhaust by 1/4 or 1/8 of an inch.... you might as well stay with stock exhaust!

Your point is noted, OD, but I think that 2 1/2 is a little big, even in a crush-bent setup. I might be wrong, of course, so let's see what others have to say.

Axel

[OdessitPashka]

I went with 2 1/4 for my crush bent and I think 2.5" would have been a lot better for crush bent.

[BlueRush]

Like I said before, because it's crush bent, it'll bottleneck a little here and there, so it's more like a mandrel bent 2 1/4" than a 2 1/2".

[oregun]

if you'll increase size of your exhaust by 1/4 or 1/8 of an inch.... you might as well stay with stock exhaust!

The difference in flow between the stock (1 7/8) and 2 1/4 inch piping is 44%. This is not trivial.

[NorthernYankee]

I went with a 2 1/2 crush bent witha Dynomax SuperTurbo muffler

[BlueRush]

no cat huh.

good deal though, hope you enjoy it!

[OdessitPashka]

The difference in flow between the stock (1 7/8) and 2 1/4 inch piping is 44%. This is not trivial.

where are you getting these numbers from?
and it's not gonna be 44% if it's crush bent from mandrel bent.

[2004ElantraGLS]

I've been doing some more thinking today.

If the stock exhaust is 1 7/8 inches in diameter, the bends are probably about 1/4 inch less, bringing it down to 1 5/8 inches.

If I upgrade to a 2 1/4 crush-bent pipe, I'll be gaining 3/8 inch. That's quite a bit, even though in the bends it will go down to 2 inches.

I'm not math-wiz, but maybe someone here could do the math and determine the flow difference?

Axel

[OdessitPashka]

Isn't the stock exhaust mandrel bent?

[NorthernYankee]

nope...

[oregun]

First, let me say that I am not discouraging anyone from getting mandrel bends. I would personally like to have a mandrel bent system. I live in Chicago - the third largest city in the United States and NO ****ING BODY has a mandrel bender in a 200 mile radius. My posts within this thread are to alay the fear and anxiety of those owners who cannot find someone to mandrel bend their piping. I know it is uber frustrating, and just keep in mind that it is okay.
Even though I would like a mandrel bent system - I am mindful that the difference won't be 2-4 horsepower. It would be more like 0.5 - 1, if that, and you wouldn't be able to show any credible gains on the dyno. It would simply be for the piece of mind that I did everything possible to maximize power.


The formula for the surface area of a circle is approx 3.14*radius^2
Becasue the surface area depends on the square of the radius (which is half the diameter) small differences in radius make big differences in how much flow a pipe can support.

For instance, going from 2 inch to 4 inch pipe is doubling the size of the pipe - BUT the pipe will flow 4 times the amount.

In calculating the difference between stock and 2 1/4 pipe:
Stock = (1.875/2)^2 * 3.14 = 2.76 sq inches
2 1/4 = (2.25/2)^2 * 3.14 = 3.97 sq inches

flow difference % = 3.97/2.76 = 1.44 which is to say that the 2 1/4 inch pipe has 1.44 times the flow, or 44% more flow than stock.

2004EGLS: If you want to know the difference between the bends of the stock vs. 2 1/4 inch piping (and you use the assumptions of 1 5/8 and 2 inches for the effective radius at the bends) the difference in flow between the stock and 2 1/4 inch pipe is 42%. At the bend, the 2 1/4 inch pipe is going to flow 14% more than the stock straight sections.


_____________________________
And time for another rant:

It is easy to catagorize of exhaust bends as mandrel vs. crush, with mandrel being the gold standard and crush as a cheap substitute. But as I previously mentioned, there is a contiuium of quality for crush bends from absolute crap to "I can't tell the difference between mandrel."

[BlueRush]

AMS is a tuner in the Chicago area. I KNOW they have a mandrel bender as they make some sick one off Japanese tuner cars.

so in the bends it'll flow 58% more than stock?

[oregun]

I'll call them, but I bet money they don't have one. They take pre bent tubing and weld it together.

[seraph0503]

dude did you talk to some of the tuner clubs around here. there are a few guys who can do mandrel bends. hell that bp on lake bradford and stadium has a guy that does mandrel bends. go talk to the guys at nrg. i think i saw a bender in there too. there are ppl in tally that do u u just gott find em man.

[2004ElantraGLS]

dude did you talk to some of the tuner clubs around here. there are a few guys who can do mandrel bends. hell that bp on lake bradford and stadium has a guy that does mandrel bends. go talk to the guys at energy. i think i saw a bender in there too. there are ppl in tally that do u u just gott find em man.

The guys at R&R, a local tuner shop, told me there were no Mandrel Benders in Tally. They were also a couple of stuck-up assholes who think their **** don't stink :mad: . When I drove up into the parking lot with my Elantra, they looked at me like I was crazy. Needless to say, Tuner Shops have left kind of a bad taste in my mouth. Something about the local Honda crowd just irks me.

Anyway, I guess I'll do some more looking then. I leave for Pensacola again tomorrow morning and I'll be gone for another 10-day stretch. Looks like my Exhaust will have to wait till sometime in January :(

Axel

[seraph0503]

**** the honda crowd. chill with the nissan guys over at nrg...i'll give u some more info when i get back in town. i'm telling u there are back yard benders. ppl who wknd race dirt and tracks and ****. they'll hook u up if u can find them.

[FordFasteRR]

........ When I drove up into the parking lot with my Elantra, they looked at me like I was crazy. Needless to say, Tuner Shops have left kind of a bad taste in my mouth. .............

This always happens to me. However, i have not been beaten by any stock civic in years in any of my hyundais.

I've also beated plenty of modded civics with the non b-series engines... I havent had a chance to race stock/close to stock si .. however I did race an rsx-type s (bone stock) with a bad driver and I beat him bad in the street. lol

the point is, those brand- X tuning shops out there usually dont know what the F_ck they are doing. You can learn more about your car on this & other select forums than any of those shops know put together...

if you want to beat b16, b18's and the newer rsx type s hondas you must have some form of forced induction otherwise you cant compare to their power levels.

[oregun]

dude did you talk to some of the tuner clubs around here. there are a few guys who can do mandrel bends. hell that bp on lake bradford and stadium has a guy that does mandrel bends. go talk to the guys at energy. i think i saw a bender in there too. there are ppl in tally that do u u just gott find em man.

Yeah. I've posted and called and bothered and annoyed etc. . .
I've been on sport compact, hot rod, and truck fourms.

I am totally positive nobody has a mandrel bender in Chicago land.

I went to AMS today and sure enough, they don't have one. They can weld up mandrel parts, which is what most people do.

A good, useful mandrel bender costs upwards of 200k. An average crush bender costs 25k and a nice one costs 40k.

By the way. Those of you who have a headers - Did you re-use the stock exhaust gasket?

[FordFasteRR]

yes.

you can reuse the stock exhaust gasket provided that it is not physically damaged...

avoid bending it in any way after its removed...

also, you can use high temp rtv sealant on the actual exhaust manifold gaskets to force a good seal, however most of it will burn off.. I still have red rtv visible between my gasket & cylinder head so it has not burned off in 6 months. lol

:)

[2004ElantraGLS]

Ok, figured I would write an update since I went to the muffler shop yesterday.

I had them fabricate a cat-back exhaust with 2.25 pipes(crush bent). I was going to use that 3-chamber dynomax turbo muffler, but decided to try the Flowmaster 60-series instead. They are specifically designed to give 4 and 6 cylinder engines the deepest tone possible, and it comes with a 10 year warranty and is stainless steel with a black powdercoating. Goes nice with the black car. I had them weld a dual DTM style tip onto the muffler.

I drove it home and fell in love! The tone was amazing, and I could definately feel a difference. Smoother acceleration, faster revs. :bowdown:

I then drove the car on a set of ramps and let it cool for about an hour. Then, my brother and I went about swaping out the stock manifold and dp with the OBX 4-2-1 unit. The swap went much faster/easier than either of us anticipated. :D

So I reset the ECU(had the bat cable unhooked for the swap) and started it up. WOW!!!! It sounded SO awesome at idle. Loud as hell and very deep. So I gave it a little gas and almost jizzed on myself. I gave it more gas and realized that the Header had created a loud buzz. Kinda figured this might happen... :(

So I drove it back to the shop and had them listen to it. We discussed using a resonator, so they installed an 18 inch unit. He only tack-welded it in place and started the engine, then gave it some gas. The buzzing had decreased by about 35%. So they did away with the 18 and installed a 30 inch resonator. That took about 98% of the buzzing away. In fact, there is only a slight buzzing when at WOT. And I do mean slight.

The car drives great. I'm very happy with the performance gain. However, 20 miles after the Header went on, my CEL flickered to life. This strikes me as odd, since I had them weld the first O2 bung in the same location that jrod13 used. He's gone over 2,000 miles without a CEL. Very weird. Not sure if I'll live with it or try out an O2 simulator.

Am I completely happy? Not sure. I'll drive it like this for a while. I might go back and have them swap out the Flowmaster for this Dynomax I have sitting here. Maybe then I can go with a shorter resonator. At this point, though, I'm just glad to have it all together finally. :rolleyes:

Regards,
Axel

PS: I'd like to thank everyone who has written previous exhaust Posts. :bowdown: I have read over them extensively and found them to be very helpful. Special thanks to jrod13 and FordFasterR. :) :bowdown:

[OdessitPashka]

post some pictures of your muffler.
Do you have any cats?

[slvrsleeper]

Don't worry too much about the CEL. I was throwing one about every 2500 miles for the first 10,000 miles. Usually the code was "Slow response from O2 sensor" I have had my complete system for a little over a year and 30,000 miles now and haven't seen a CEL in at least seven months. It won't hurt the car to run with the CEL on while the computer figures it out.