Supercharger with this stuff..

[Onelove5683]

hey guys whats everyones thoughts on the using the alpine supercharger with evofusion header and evofusion catback?

im hoping that the 2.5" catback will be efficient.

btw, Alpine is done with all the stuff for the xd tc and sc kits..the unichip is all programmed and ready. the kits include EVERYTHING needed. they will utilize a 5th injector.

[Guess]

Where did you hear they had finished the SC kit last I heard it was going to be some time in Aug. If its sooner then that they I'm all over it lol .

[Onelove5683]

from a distributer...

[Guess]

I see well then they need to get there butts in gear and start posting about it on there sites I wanna see it . :cool:

[SkizziK03elan]

well, that would be great if the evo fusion cat back was 2.5' .....buts its not, its just under 2.25, or so i was told by Team-SR

[Elantra2.001]

Even that should be fine unless you want over 250.

[FordFasteRR]

hm.. the supercharger kit uses the 5th injector setup?

so it sprays fuel into the TB then it gets squished by the supercharger blades before it enters the cylinders?

If that is the setup ... then....

thats really stupid.

[Onelove5683]

hm.. the supercharger kit uses the 5th injector setup?

so it sprays fuel into the TB then it gets squished by the supercharger blades before it enters the cylinders?

If that is the setup ... then....

thats really stupid.


yeah i think i was reading the thing wrong, that might be the turbo charger kit only

my other question was can i use the evo fusion headers with the sc?

[Elantra2.001]

Yeah with NOS or supercharging, you can use what ever header makes you happy.

[tharptroy]

as I understand it, the supercharger is worth 20whp. and certainly not worth $2900

[Onelove5683]

i thought it was like 50-70

im considering nos instead now...but id rather have something like tc or sc...

i just dont want to have to change EVERYTHING to accomodate a tc

[Mahonroy]

Usually you can set superchargers to whatever power level you want. If you replace the wheel that connects to the belts with a bigger one, less power because it spins slower, if you put a tiny wheel on it, its gonna spin fast, thus more power, just depends on if your car can handle it and if you can keep it cooled or not.

[SkizziK03elan]

i don't know, my feelings on SC's are blah anyways...the only 4 cyl SC car i ever really liked was my 91 VW Corrado G60. theres just soo much more potential in a TC setup on 4 bangers.

[Elantra2.001]

Only supercharger i would do is a lysolm screw type or centrifical.

[BobMs_wht2k2]

According to the alpine site, The tib they tested went from 118HP to 213HP, and from 142lbs-ft to 183. That looks like a little more than 20 horses! Even a 70HP gain would be worth that much money. I know you can do nitrous for around $600, but this power is always there, no need to refill a bottle.

[Josh K]

Something's not right with those numbers - the torque and hp gains are way out of proportion which leads me to believe that the HP number is inflated. What's the site's address? Do they have any dyno graphs?

[OdessitPashka]

i believe its alpine-developments.com

SC are not really efficient on 4 cyl cars, yes you can make adjusments to it, but it will never be able to support as much power as TC, on the other hand if you want constant power throughout the whole powerband, SC is the way to go...

[BlueGT]

According to the alpine site, The tib they tested went from 118HP to 213HP, and from 142lbs-ft to 183. That looks like a little more than 20 horses! Even a 70HP gain would be worth that much money. I know you can do nitrous for around $600, but this power is always there, no need to refill a bottle.

Hold on. Something is not right. Is that for Tibby V6? Then HP # is ridiculously low. But if it is I4, then torque # for stock is too high.
:conf:

[Elantra2.001]

SC are not really efficient on 4 cyl cars, yes you can make adjusments to it, but it will never be able to support as much power as TC
OD, come on now, superchargers can be extremely efficient on any engine, it depends on the setup.

[Onelove5683]

i believe its alpine-developments.com

SC are not really efficient on 4 cyl cars


dude, sometimes the comments u make do not contain truthful information.
maybe u should put "imo" so that all the newbies dont believe every opinion out there.

[OdessitPashka]

you still wont be able to get as much as you can from TC! superchargers are limited to the ceratain amount of hp! they will work at the certain speed and then they wont be bringing anymore power... although you can get power through out the whole power band and there is no lag....

how many s/c we see instaled on OEM cars? a few? how many TC are there that comes from factory? tons of them! now make your own conclusion out of it, and read some info!

[2GTS]

With the poper setup you can get the same hp from a supercharger as a turbo.

[OdessitPashka]

you will never get same power out of sc as you could from TC!!!
SC can only spin at speed of 50,000rpm, and it's not recomended to go over this number, while TC can spin a lot faster and deliver much more air!!!

[2GTS]

How fast the compressor spins is not the only thing that determins the hp out put of a tc or sc.

[WytchDctr]

The fastest things on the planet do not have a tc.. if you are talking about 1/4 anyway ;) Topfuel Dragsters run s/c.

[OdessitPashka]

fastest car in the world is also automatic... but how much money were put into that tranny? and how much money were put into that SC? for a street setup TC is the best way to get extra horses, as for other things it's up to you. and be prepared to spend more money to get that extra hp out of sc....

[Josh K]

Hey Odessit, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this. Lots of factory cars come with superchargers. Mercedes SL55, E55, CL55, Ford Lightning, etc. Even many respected tuners use superchargers (Lingenfelter, Saleen, Carlsson, etc.). Turbo's are good, but so are superchargers, and depending on what kind of supercharger you use (centrifugal, roots, Lysholm/screw type) you can achieve equal powergains and in many cases larger power gains.

Additionaly, the different types of superchargers available will allow you to get power where you need it. For example, a car lacking torque would greatly benefit from a roots style blower, while one lacking midrange/topend would benefit from a centrifugal s/c (essentially a belt driven turbo). Because of their spool up nature/design, turbos aren't very good at adding torque when compared to a s/c.

I'm currently in the process of supercharging my other car after a lot of research and consideration of a custom turbo, and my previous car benefited greatly froma supercharger as well.

That being said, the Alpine kit looks pretty crappy. The design looks decent but I'm very skeptical of their dyno graphs as the baseline graph looks nothing like a baseline motor torque/hp curve.

[OdessitPashka]

Well, I'm going to stick with TC, and still think that unless you put sh*t load of money into your SC system it will never work as well as a TC :)

[Rdubois]

Well either can be very good depending on what you do with them. But between the Alpine SC and TC units I think the TC has better reviews and numbers but every kit is different.

[Elantra2.001]

OD, i could run 45 psi with a lysolm screw type supercharger but its harder to find one that suites our application and to have the parts needed fabricated. Turbo is easier and the compressors are more efficient, but that doesnt make them better. A supercharged engine can accelerate faster than a turbocharged engine. Because of the parasitic drag, the turbo will make more horsepower, but over the rev band its superchargers all the way.

[OdessitPashka]

I know the privelage of SC that it give you power through the hole rev band, but once turbo is at full boost its unstoppable (sp). and once again, its a lot easier and cheaper to turbocharge your car!

[Josh K]

Again, odessit, the power and expense are both relative to the kind of car you're working on. I will grant you that in most cases it's cheaper to turbo a 4 cylinder simply because more kits are available. It would be completely feasible, however to supercharge a 4 cylinder using a small A-Trim Vortech and have all of the plumbing fabricated for under $3-4 grand. Because it's a centrifugal blower, the power gains and performance characteristics would be similar to a turbo.

As for expense on other cars, I looked into turbocharging my Mercedes and Mosselman (the only turbo tuner I would trust with my car) was quoting upwards of $10-12k for a custom turbo setup which they estimated would give me about 100 horses at about 9 pounds of boost. I'm ending up going with a Vortech w/ Greddy Blowoff valve, and intercooler for about $7k. This will give my V8 a rear wheel gain of about 125 horses at only 5.8 pounds of boost (dyno tested on the exact same car), so in this case the pricing/performance worked in favor of the s/c.

And as far as it being easier to turbo a car, when using a centrifugal blower (one that doesn't replace the intake manifold and sit on the engine) it's just as easy to supercharge a car as it's simply a bolt on process (a little easer, actually as there's no need to change the exhaust manifold(s)).

I don't think anyone's disputing the benefits of a turbo, but you should probably stay away from making such sweeping statements when they're obviously not true in every case. :0)

[OdessitPashka]

well I would never put 12gs down for 100 hp! thats just ridiculus! it would take a lot more money and hassle to SC your car instead of TCing it! I plan on builing my own kit for less than $1500 which should yield 70whp or so! and if I wanted to SC my I would never be able to do so for such a low price!

and its not a big deal that you have to change your exhaust manifold (s), with SC setup you have to chane your intake manifold.... and i still say that its a lot cheaper and much more efficient for a buck to TC your car!

[Rdubois]

Ok this is going no where just admit you are both right. For OUR cars, XD OP is right. For the money it is better and easier to go turbo because there our more kits out there for it and is better bang for the buck. Joch and Elantra our both right in the fact that alot of other cars work better and easier with a SC over a TC. It really just comes down to the car and what is currently available for it. I'm sure out of hundreds of cars out there each one has either a SC or TC that is cheaper and performs better than the other one. So your all right. There is everyone happy.:)

[OdessitPashka]

Alright, I'm done arguin and Rob is right :)
now let get some love for each other and have a drink!
:luvlove: and :smiley_ab

[Josh K]

Ok this is going no where just admit you are both right. For OUR cars, XD OP is right. For the money it is better and easier to go turbo because there our more kits out there for it and is better bang for the buck. Joch and Elantra our both right in the fact that alot of other cars work better and easier with a SC over a TC. It really just comes down to the car and what is currently available for it. I'm sure out of hundreds of cars out there each one has either a SC or TC that is cheaper and performs better than the other one. So your all right. There is everyone happy.:)

That's all I was trying to say, RDubious :0) you hit the nail right on the head. I even said in one of my posts that it's cheaper in most cases to t/c a 4 cylinder car ;0)

[WytchDctr]

fastest car in the world is also automatic... but how much money were put into that tranny? and how much money were put into that SC? for a street setup TC is the best way to get extra horses, as for other things it's up to you. and be prepared to spend more money to get that extra hp out of sc....

there trans is about as close to an automatic like yours as my left nut. The are alot closer in relation to a stick.. because they use clutchs.. lots of clutchs. Only gear in the car is the final. They just lock in more as they gain speed.. after they cross the 60ft 1 disk is down and lets 2000rpms make it to the diff.. then a second clutch now 3000rpms can make it.. etc. and it keeps going untill its turning the full 8000rpms into the final. I wanna say its something like 6 plates. From start to finish the engine sits around 8krpms.. never shift. They have to change those things after every run if im not mistaken. Im sure they are burnt to hell.. actually I watched a crew pull them after the car had time to run then get parked. They were still smoking. BTW those numbers are aprox. not exact. Sence ive never driven or built one. I have no idea when the disks lock or how many rpms they can transfer. I think that depends on track conditions.
The money I beleive comes more from the engine build up than the s/c. Its a standard roots type. Im sure some R&D goes into its shape etc. The head design, pistons, trying to get around rules to pull better times, etc cost a hell of alot more than that egg beater sitting on top. ;)

[OdessitPashka]

so, it does work like automatic because the driver doesnt do anything, does he?

w/e im done arguin, I have my own opinion and everyone is allowed to have their own!

[WytchDctr]

neither does the transmission :D

[Elantra2.001]

OK ok, back on topic.

[SkizziK03elan]

i don't think OD ment TC were better than SC in general, i'm pretty sure he ment on a 4cly setup, you were going to get more from TC.....and which ever one of you said true top drag cars use SC only or somethin, your wrong, at ford fest there were plenty 1000+ hp BOOSTED mustangs, with turbos the size of basketballs probably pushing somewhere close to 80 psi. running low 9's, some 8's. if thats not a true drag car...i don't know what is.

anyways, YES, the stock torque number listed is high as ****, should be closer to 118-120, but not 140 something. but, its not like this is the first or last after-market company to say their **** gives more power than it really does, never exspect to get the gains they tell you you will.

[WytchDctr]

i don't think OD ment TC were better than SC in general, i'm pretty sure he ment on a 4cly setup, you were going to get more from TC.....and which ever one of you said true top drag cars use SC only or somethin, your wrong, at ford fest there were plenty 1000+ hp BOOSTED mustangs, with turbos the size of basketballs probably pushing somewhere close to 80 psi. running low 9's, some 8's. if thats not a true drag car...i don't know what is.



:rolleyes: I was talking about topfuel drag cars.. those who run 4secs.. Read what I wrote before you jump on me.

[OdessitPashka]

please no flame here! we are all friends and should stay that way!

[tharptroy]

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/22838/index.html
-thought you might like that, OD.

I stopped by his shop and talked to him about supercharging the XD. He told me that tuning was much more critical with a supercharged engine (Obviously his case is extreme). His car runs 17psi off of idle (IE-when you hit the gas at idle, 17psi of boost is in the manifold =O ) so, essentially the fuel system and tuning has to be spot on so that he does not run lean. and yep, OD..thats a 1.6 pushing close to 500hp while supercharged. pretty nasty if you ask me
and I have to ask that you cut down the use of exclamation marks. I find it hard to take your sentences seriously when I see them all followed by exclamation points. =P

[2GTS]

So what did he say about supercharging the XD?

[OdessitPashka]

yea, thats pretty impressive, but how much money he put into his car and SC intself?

sorry about exclamation points, its just something natural that comes when i type :)

[WytchDctr]

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/22838/index.html
-thought you might like that, OD.

I stopped by his shop and talked to him about supercharging the XD. He told me that tuning was much more critical with a supercharged engine (Obviously his case is extreme). His car runs 17psi off of idle (IE-when you hit the gas at idle, 17psi of boost is in the manifold =O ) so, essentially the fuel system and tuning has to be spot on so that he does not run lean. and yep, OD..thats a 1.6 pushing close to 500hp while supercharged. pretty nasty if you ask me
and I have to ask that you cut down the use of exclamation marks. I find it hard to take your sentences seriously when I see them all followed by exclamation points. =P

talk about some nice burnouts :D

[SkizziK03elan]

ok ok, sorry wytch, i didn't see that you ment stupid fast cars. my bad, you sexy thing you.