kspec intake group buy SUCKS !

[FordFasteRR]

ok, this is in response to this thread: http://www.elantraxd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721

it is the one with the group buy on the kspec intake manifold.

first of all....

thanks to
rckozma
Super Moderator for locking the thread before I could reply. You know i'm the only person on this board who threw $600 into the garbage and you LOCKED the thread so i could not reply... very smart thinking there dude.

next...

this intake DOES NOT WORK on an XD. since you need to custom (RIG) your idle air control valve using ****-steel to actually have some (bullshizzle) level of functionality...

next... you DO NOT GAIN ANY horsepower with this intake... actually ... YOU WILL GO 1/2 a second SLOWER than stock.

YES. THIS IS PROOVEN. and you can ask (SED) who raced me after i put it on and he actually BEAT ME... which i was beating him by MORE than half a second in the 1/4 mile before I Installed it...

then I thought i was smart and intsalled a bbtb from evofuxion and guess what ????

I went another 2 tenths SLOWER and he beat me even EASIER....

my point is...

please copy and paste this reply into that thread for EVERYONE on this message board to read the truth and not be tricked into buying this POS that does not work with a (stock) engine in any way whatSOEVER.



Thanks for reading all of this shnizzle.



:angryfire


edit: I would also like to point out that if any moderator locks this thread they are totally selling every exd.com member out.

also, that kspec intake pictured is the one for the beta1... my intake DOES NOT HAVE all of the vacuum ports shown in the images on their website... actually.. you will also have to seal the big (ASCE) one that is in the center-bottom underneath the plenum since NOTHINg actually attaches to it.... plus you can delete like 3 of the vacuume ports shown since they dont even come on the one for XD which IS STILL missing the IAC valve port....

I bet some of you are asking... "if that was the wrong intake, why didnt you send it back for a refund".... here is my answer.... because the last time I had a problem with a korean aftermarket seller... they refunded my $$ but kept 30% of the total sale price... I'm not about to loose that kind of $$ for NOTHING considering that I plan to sell this intake to someone with a BUILT engine who can actually benefit from its flow capacity when they reach that level of modification.... but this absolutely WILL NOT help anybody who has a stock/bolt-on engine setup.


:fiddle: f-ing bullshizzle.

[tharptroy]

For the most part, intake manifolds on boosted engines require less attention to design and careful shaping of runners, etc. I have seen turbo drag cars that just have sheetmetal boxes welded together as their manifolds. the fact that it works well on a boosted engine really doesnt equate to performance on a naturally aspirated car.

[SkizziK03elan]

Spike,I agree with you, but if your referencing fordfaster when you talk of ppl "whinning" and such, i don't think fordfasterr complaints should be considered "whinning" i'm sure hes utterly thankful that companies do what they can and make a few things here and there for our cars...but when a company list one of there products as fitting a certain car, then you have to modify the **** out of it to actualy get it to fit, i think thats a very valid reason to "*****" and "whine". he paid $600 for a product that A) didn't achieve **** B) advertised a bull**** N/A hp gain and C) took extensive modification to get to work properly. I'd feel a little ripped off and pissed too.

[RED ZMAN]

Ford, go blow yourself. It's not Kspec.com's fault you can't tune your car.

LOL

Whatever. It was locked because the guy didn't know I help run Kspec.com, that's all.

Get over yourself and stop wishin you had a Tib.

[sed]

ok:

1. You are trying to sell something to people that you YOURSELF stated will not work well on a N/A stock motor. Yet you come here with the apperance of helping out. More like helping your wallet.

2. He DOES have a tib, and its faster than your p.o.s

3. You are a disrespectful prick.

4. You think people are going to buy things from a company representative that comes to a place that he DOES not frequent and tells people to blow themselves?

5. "It's a proven device, I'm sorry that I don't need your approval to know this" If its proven then PROVE IT TO ME.

6. "I brought this over here to see if I could help some folks out get a expensive part for cheaper that has a HIGH sales rate for the rest of the BETA 1 and 2 fleet" IF Its such a "HIGH SELLING ITEM" where are they dude? In korea? In japan? In your ***? Where are the cars with this intake manifold????? Show me anyone other than Ford who has one...

7. "This is a sale, not a discussion." Yeah because you can't handle people telling everyone else the truth about this. YOU ARE SELLING A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THAT DOES NOT FIT THE CAR YOU ARE SELLING IT FOR . "Only a little modification is needed for the betaII" Well f%$# that, I am not and no one should give you 600 bucks so they can SLIGHTLY MODIFY it, thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

shawn

[FordFasteRR]

Ford, go blow yourself.........Get over yourself and stop wishin you had a Tib.

I do have a tib. Everybody on this forum knows i have both the GK and the XD.


look, don't get e-pissed at me because youre selling a product that is meant for highly modified engines that nobody on this forum has...

I tried it, and i got ****ed over. I am man enough to accept the responsibility for making that choice and wasting the $600. Thats why I didn't (and won't) try to return it or ask for a refund.

Everyone on here knows that the air-scam intake is a great product... I never said it was bad ( i actually said POS). ... Everyone already knows that it did not help ME gain any power over the ported stock intake. But thats not the point.

And as far as tuning is concerned... your right... I might be able to gain some more power if i had an aftermarket ecu that i could tune on a dyno.. but sheesh... if that was the case, I could just tune the engine with the stock intake and get just as close to the peek power of the air-scam since you cant even rev the stock motor much past 7000 rpms without blowing it apart...


anyhow... now that we've had our talk.. :phone: .. don't tell me about HA... where is HA anyway ?

I wonder.

[NorthernYankee]

Ford, go blow yourself. It's not Kspec.com's fault you can't tune your car.

LOL

Whatever. It was locked because the guy didn't know I help run Kspec.com, that's all.

Get over yourself and stop wishin you had a Tib.

Maybe I should forward your comments to KSPEC and show them how their "representatives" represent KSPEC on these forums.

I think I will.

--NY

[FordFasteRR]

I think it would be appropriate to say you have been :owned1: .

and therefore, I guess its time for you pack up and move on...

http://www.hyundaispeed.com/misc/images/mule_owned.jpg

[NorthernYankee]

:iamwithst

[RED ZMAN]

1. Correct it won't be any magical NA mod. But it will still work and show gains. There ARE turbo's you know, and that is what this is made for, FI. FI = Forced Induction, just so you guys over here know that.

2. ... And how would you know? So wait, my Tib is a POS but his isn't. It's the same car. Moron.

3. No, I'm not, came here polite and friendly, but I see the rumors around the rest of the community about EXD are true. Thanks for showing us that.

4. Yeah, blow yourselfs. You'll get more HP. BLOW, you know, FI. Turbo/SC. Get a life man. :rolleyes:

5. Workin on it. Sorry, not everyone that buys from us posts on all the internet forums, a LOT of them don't participate with them at all.

6. I did bring this over here trying to be helpful, I thought this site was for all Elantra's, not just the XD. Huge seller in Korea, not so big in Japan. The Japaneese aren't really Korean friendly, and vice versa, read a history book. There have been about 12 of these sold to the US that I know of. Random at HA.com has one but his Tib got totalled by a 18 wheeler. Littlejohn at RDtiburon.com has one on his drag tib. Cybershark at RDtiburon.com has one as I stated before, in his NA Tib, and has said it makes a huge difference. Cybershark is getting his new clutch in and is going to dyno it after it's in, but he has a few mods. Nothing really fancy yet. Should be a decent baseline. Sorry, but this IM won't fit in my ***. Maybe yours?

7. No, that is a "GROUP BUY" or "FOR SALE" forum. Most of the rest of the internet works in a way where you keep the appropriate discussion in the appropriate areas. I see that this entire forum ignores that and is just a flame/flamer free for all. It does fit the beta 1 and 2. Simple. If you can't hack drilling a hole and welding a bit, you shouldn't be modding at all. Sorry. People all over the place buy stuff and modify it to fit their cars to move faster. Sorry if you aren't one of those. The quaife LSD is like 900 dollars and has to be slightly modified to be installed. Still, plenty of folks buy them.

Again, sorry I didn't know that everyone on this whole site had Beta 2's.

I do have a tib. Everybody on this forum knows i have both the GK and the XD.

look, don't get e-pissed at me because youre selling a product that is meant for highly modified engines that nobody on this forum has...

I tried it, and i got ****ed over. I am man enough to accept the responsibility for making that choice and wasting the $600. Thats why I didn't (and won't) try to return it or ask for a refund.

Everyone on here knows that the air-scam intake is a great product... I never said it was bad ( i actually said POS). ... Everyone already knows that it did not help ME gain any power over the ported stock intake. But thats not the point.

And as far as tuning is concerned... your right... I might be able to gain some more power if i had an aftermarket ecu that i could tune on a dyno.. but sheesh... if that was the case, I could just tune the engine with the stock intake and get just as close to the peek power of the air-scam since you cant even rev the stock motor much past 7000 rpms without blowing it apart...


anyhow... now that we've had our talk.. :phone: .. don't tell me about HA... where is HA anyway ?

I wonder.

Ewww... You have a GK? No wonder then. Now I fully understand why you are the way you are.

LOL <-- That means Laugh Out Loud = I'm kidding, joshin with ya.

I'm not Epissed at you man, I really thought there were more well tuned Elantras out here than there is I guess. I've never really been to this site before yesterday. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

How did you get ****ed over though? I mean really. I've bought things that didn't work out right but don't consider myself ****ed over for them. I take responsibility for it like you did and don't do it again. As for your Ramair IM, do you still have it? If you want to sell it I know of several folks that would take it off your hands, they'd just have to patch up the hole ya know?

Real Engineering is working with us on ECU tuning, it's moving, but slowly. I don't know if you've seen but Rob at HP is getting AEM to make a plug in harness for their fuel controller hardware, so that should help plenty of stuff. Personally I wish there were more simple electronic options for us.

Air-Scam? Hey, maybe you just showed that it doesn't work well on a NA XD, but it's far from a scam. You know? I wouldn't be buying one for me if it were a scam mang.

HA?

www.hyundaiaftermarket.com

You're registered there, I've talked to you before there a bit. I know it's you because you spelled your name the same.

Or did you think it actually went under like Tony was talking about? HA.com is still up.

Lastly, I am getting one for myself, I know it's not fantastic for a NA setup but it works better on the Beta 1 than 2 obviously. I didn't know that before now. I AM going turbo in the next year, Speed-factor is a short drive from here and Tim is gonna help put a turbo in my Tib. Having this allready will make a big difference for me and I can sell the Onpol BIM I have sitting here next to my desk.

Word, it's talked out. You guys enjoy your modding.

[sed]

ugh i'm done with this.

I'm sorry for getting involved people, I guess I should just go and hide my face because mighty kspec has put down the hammer on me.

I won't be posting anymore

shawn

[FordFasteRR]

1. Correct it won't be any magical NA mod. But it will still work and show gains. There ARE turbo's you know, and that is what this is made for, FI. FI = Forced Induction, just so you guys over here know that.......

You guys enjoy your modding.


Wait... but you said:

Larger and ported/polished ports will improve approximately 15~20hp for NA tuned cars.

DAMN !

Just like the 20 whp EvoFuxion cat-back ! hehehe


ohh wait...


http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/aol_topspeed.jpg

[sed]

delete d

[FordFasteRR]

darn !!


http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/owned1.jpg


This is so harsh ! hehee

[joonie78]

Hello,

First of all, I am sure 90% of you know me already but I am David from kSpec.com
I guess EXD got a new type of forum so that my ID was deleted.
I re-registered the same as before that I am known as joonie78 among Hyundai communities.

A user/customer/visitor(?) was good enough to e-mail me about this matter and Redzman (Jeremy).

First of all, I will back up Redzman what so ever. Just because I met him in person not as business related, but partial business related and friendship as well. No, it's not like I have been friends or 'bros' with him for years and years, but ever since I got to know him he helped me / us (kSpec) in great many ways both visibly and invisibly. Yes, world is harsh and even good friends can back stab you at times but he has yet to do that. What I want to say is I will trust Redzman more than anyone in this forum, and although this is a flame section, this (talking sh*t) to Redzman is the only thing that makes me angry.

Now onto business from the neutral point of view. The reason I say neutral is because Airrams are not made by us so I am in the neutral position between the customer and Airram company Sinseung.

One thing to CLEARLY point out is that, it will not gain 15-20hp in NA vehicles just be adding this item to it. Not a single item will do this much hp gain. Even a turbo, back up hardwares and softwares have to be there to increase 20 or more hp. Then why did we post 30hp gain for turbo and 20hp gain for NA? That is simply because we translated the description from the vendor and other online store in Korea. I don't think there is a need for us to say "although vendor claims 20hp gain, it isn't true." Nothing works out like that.

I do know that ever since fordfaterr purchase his first item (headers) from us, it didn't go through well. And as he claims with the purchase of Airram that his time actually came out slower, it simply shows that he has no luck from our company. This could be my lame excuse only for ford.

I am not sure how many of you know but I own a Turbulence 2.0L in Korea which has a turbo setup. And my intake manifold is OEM. Why don't I use Airram? That is just because I don't see need of it. But does that mean that I cannot offer them in the site? We have figured out this since we jumped into this Hyundai community. We dare to post up high priced items to some worthless cheap blue lighting accessories. Customers/visitors will choose before the purchase.

To be honest with you all, NOT everyone is happy with Airram purchase in Korea either. A lot of drag/circuit machines have it and a lot of them don't have it. As you know not every OEM vehicles from the factory has equally same quality or same power. I think this is true for any aftermarket parts as well. Some OEM Tuscani 2.7s go up to 252kph in stock form and some don't even go over 230kph.

If you read through our small forum in kSpec.com, I or whoever answered about the Airram told customers to purchase it because it was an awesome item. 9 out of 10 times, we have said it will probably be worth less in stock form of motor, but as you go into high cam setup or forced setup, then larger ports will have more positive effects than negative effects.

On a 2.0L Beta platform, adding from air intake, headers, throttle body, mid pipe, and exhaust will probably add around 15hp gain at the wheels IF correct range was set. Number 15hp? It might sound lame from all those bolt on parts that you added, but there is a large improvement and you can tell this if you test drive a bone stock car.

Not the one million dollar question would be, if I add Airram to above bolt on setup, will it increase hp? Probably yes and probably no. But I am 90% sure that the answer is close to no. Because you will NOT feel wow my car feels a lot faster. To most of people, instead of lame hp numbers, 'feel' is important.

My turbo based on Garrett's small T028 turbine produces only about 200hp at the wheels. Most people call it lame, why? Because as you know a lot of turbo cars in Korea are 300, 400, 500 hp. Can they be daily driven? Can they be daily taken to the track and beat down? Nope. Can my car be raced everyday? Yes.

To give you guys a comparison, on my lame 200hp lame Turbulence, I have beaten S2000 at drag racing. I wonder how people can explain that. FF VS FR. Heavy VS Light. HP VS HP. In which department could I have beaten S2000? probably only in torque. What I want to point out is HP is a number. Just a number. You buy this item, you get this much HP. We have NEVER told that to anyone before if you ever talked to me or written at our forums.

I do see that ford and other users actually drag tested and got the results and I respect that. But just because you didn't get happy results, so you say this item sucks and the person e-mailed me said, I will not recommend kSpec to anyone from now, is just I don't know how to say, my English is limited for being a Korean.

I know Redzman didn't want to leave out EXD users on this GB that is why he posted here. He is simply doing this because he likes me, he likes cars, he likes Hyundai or whatever reason he has. If he brings me sales, kSpec.com makes profit and not him. But in this case, for some reason, he has failed you XD users. And I don't blame him nor blame XD users.

If you guys want to say Airram sucks from the results that ford found out, then by all means, I don't want to defend it by saying Airram is the best. This probably is the longest post/e-mail/or whatever you call that I have written for the first time. This probably shows that I am somewhat disappointed, mad, frustrated, and not sure all at the same time.

Like I said, customers make choices. And if XD users do not want to participate then no hard feelings and that is just the way it's going to be. I just want this flame section to be concluded in a professional manner other than this item sucks, this person sucks, and etc etc.

If you have any product questions, please be free to post on our site. Will try to answer as far as my knowledge allows me to. I cannot participate in forums as much except NT.com just because we are their sponsors and they have our small forum in there. Although I still push people to post on kSpec on site board.

So again, no hard feelings, no one is a childish baby here right?

Any more replies are welcomed.

Thank you and I hope I said enough.

David Lee
kSpec.com

[sed]

That was a well said, intellegent responce to alot of emotion.

The reason that I got involved in this, is simply because someone from your company came to our home and personally insulted a good friend of mine, who was just trying to educate the people whom which might think that this part would be good for him.

Why would he come to our forums where 99.9% of us are N/A stock motors, some with extensive bolt ons, but STOCK nonetheless.. I have heard many good things about your company, but I also have heard complaints. Not anything HDKish, but simple glitches, most likely from international business.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I really do appreciate what you and your company are doing for the hyundai community in the United States, but remember you are running a business here, you have to know your customer base. I know that he wanted to include us in this Group buy, i understand that and that is a very nice gesture... BUT at the first sign that we couldn't/shouldn't use this product, he started insulting people. So i responded, perhaps immaturely, but responded in turn.

I am not saying that I didn't cause some of the emotions flying behind the keyboard, I take responsibility for my actions. I am simply stating that your company falsely believed that this was a product for ElantraXD...

I just think next time you should have your associates try to conduct business like business people and not personally attack anyone who might disagree with them. He acted like a 17 year old kid who said his car was slow!!!

Once again, I apologize for my part in this whole excapde, It really should not have escalated to this level at all...

And my opinion, if you want to sell to us, make sure you know what we have and who we are... Nothing like this will ever sell on this board, if you offered something for our motors even, then I'm sure you would be quite happy with the turnout.

shawn

[RED ZMAN]

Shawn, no offence, but I was attacked when i walked thru the door. Being that I've posted here now what, 10 times in the past 24 hours, how the hell would I know that most of you are NA and aren't interested in buying bigger ticket items?

Why did I come here to bring this GB? Think about what you are asking. The REST of the Hyundai Tuning community tries to help eachother out, obviously it's not that way here. When someone new comes to the forums, such as RDTiburon.com, we don't yell "get out of here noob" or "you want to put what on your car? You are so stupid." No. We try to nudge them in the right direction and away from 2F2F stuff. I personally will not be returning to this site, there is little traffic and from what I see here, you don't want it. No problem. And as a final note, I didn't insult anyone or get defensive until I was attacked by the lot of you.

Now there are 2 tuning worlds, one for Hyundai, and one for XD's.

[sed]

I only reacted, I did not instigate. Ford is understandably upset with your company... He did not attack you personally sir. He simply stated that the airram would not be benifical for us.

Like i stated, I apologize for the personal attacks towards you, but i felt that you had no respect for him for no reason.

I understand that you would not know about what we have here, I understand you are not familiar with us, and our cars.... BUT why wouldn't try to find that out before offering a 600$ part to us???

Also, you started this little flame war with your responce to Ford... We made it MUCH bigger and understandably you reacted in turn.

I don't want anyone to think that we are like the Honda tuning forums, we have respect and liking towards all hyundais... At least I do, i can't speak for anyone else. And noone told you that you were a NOOB and to get out. It is simply that fact that you were uniformed of the situation.

shawn

[joonie78]

shawn,

Thank you for your response.

I do admit that I know and have less knowlege on XDs compared to Hyundai coupe models. But that doesn't mean I care less. XD/GK are same cars as far as engine/body goes. Yes small accessories are different and GK has 2.7. But as for 2.0 XD/GK are the same and in Korea we would love to drive all 2.0 XDs because 99% of them are 1.5L Alpha engine.

Running this company from Korea has a lot of good advantages but have a few disadvantages also. Our projected target customers are EVERYONE in every country except Korea because we do not sell locally. Not all GKs, RDs, XDs, Accents, Sonatas, etc are the same in each country. Yes, I do admit that over 70% customers are from North America regions. We simply cannot keep up with every different specification on every country, although we hope we could if we have enough sources and man power.

This is the main reason why we wanted to post the most crazily priced items and some cheap items as $5. So that the customers can choose. If XDs are less performance oriented than GKs or RDs, who cares? I don't think NO ONE should care. As long as they choose which ever platform then that's the best there is. Performance doesn't mean always the best, right?

So if you come to our only official forum in NT.com, I always mention that our small forum there is for information, fun, and discussion. Not for me to go in there and advertise this and that item. Money is good, who will doubt that? But Hyundai is a small community and shouldn't be enemies to each other. I am not doing kSpec because it brings me millions and billions of dollars, more than 50% of the reason is because I like doing this. I used to drive Honda back in the states. Moved back to Korea and obviously bought 2 door Hyundai sports car and still enjoy doing this. That has been our FIRST and CURRENT motto as well.

I am glad that things are settling down. Redzman as he posted above will not visit here probably, but I don't blame him nor I don't blame whoever got involved with him.

Just enjoy driving, try different things, and have fun, I guess.

Thanks.

David Lee
kSpec.com

[sed]

I just don't want you to think we don't appreciate what you do.

If you want to continue selling to us XDers why not talk to us and find out what we want/need/can use... We all are here to mod our cars and we aren't afreaid of spending money, but we need to see proof that it can

1. fit our car
2. give some sort of enhancement
3. worth the hard earned money we spend.

why not ask questions before offering group buys? This is my only gripe with KSPEC.

shawn

[NorthernYankee]

David,

Thanks for stopping by and calming things down. Your posts show that Kspec is a top-notch company and that you will always do your best to help out the community.

Sometimes things do get a bit heated and I hope that this little situation does not deter anyone from buying from your company.

Thanks again m8

--NY

[Onelove5683]

And my opinion, if you want to sell to us, make sure you know what we have and who we are... Nothing like this will ever sell on this board, if you offered something for our motors even, then I'm sure you would be quite happy with the turnout.



what do we have and who are we?

[sed]

yeah yeah

as modders of the xd, who we are

and that we have betaIIs with IAC's and such

shawn

[Elantra2.001]

David, we (moderators) appreciate you response here. The confusion was just that REDZMAN was not known to be an agent of KSpec and therefore was not authorized to make a group buy announcement as an individual and we would still prefer that it be you as a company owner/employee who instigate the group buy for the protection of our members. The thread was locked so that the Admin could look over the post and approve said post. The moderator who locked it did what was appropriate under the rules set forth by BlueGT, Admin of EXD. This is all about REDZMAN mistakenly not announcing himself as an agent of KSpec and is a misunderstanding.

[FordFasteRR]

......... This is all about REDZMAN mistakenly not announcing himself as an agent of KSpec and is a misunderstanding.

That is partially true, but there is more to the story and thats why it really got out of hand.

Here is what I have found.....

#1. Their product claims to work on beta 2 engines. = It doesnt work out of the box and requires extensive modifications to actualy work.

#2. Their product claims to add NA 15-20 hp = It does not do that on a BPU motor. They do not provide before and after dyno graphs or 1/4 mile times.

#3. They dont have anyone to vouch for their product or anyone who can confirm that it actaully improves performance besides their representatives.



OK, is there a possibility that I may have done something wrong during the install? yes but unlikely.

Is there a chance that I could reclaim the stock manifolds performance levels using expensive aftermarket computer tuning devices? yes.

Is there a chance that i could surpass the stock manifolds performance levels using expensive aftermarket computer tuning devides? yes.

SO what is the real benefit of bolting this intake manifold onto your BPU (basic performance upgrades I/H/E) elantra XD ? NOTHING.

Ok, so maybe the stock TB is choking it.. not letting enough air get through.. so I bought a slightly larger (not 70mm) bbtb... sure enough.. the larger volume opening reduces the air velocity even more and low/mid rpms and reduces the torque ouput which is one of the only benefits of the beta2 motor... and what happens? My car consistently goes 4 tenths of a second slower in the 1/4 mile than it did with the stock ported IM and stock ported TB.

Unless you can figure out a way to rev the stock motor to at least 7000-7500 rpms you will not get any significant gains from this intake manifold.

apparently it was tuned for a highly modified beta motor, not a BPU setup.

Therefore...

If someone out there has this manifold and BPU's, and has had significant gains over their previous setup... then please provide me with your tuning methods so I could learn from my mistakes. Also, please provide us with some stats like 1/4 mile times or dyno sheets with before/after (if possible) runs.

[sed]

hear hear!!!

[Elantra2.001]

That is partially true, but there is more to the story and thats why it really got out of hand.


No FORD, my reason was correct for the reasons i outlined. I was outlining the reasons for the post being locked, not any flame forum started as a result.

[JonGTR]

Ford,

I've known about your experiences for quite some time now (nitrous). So I have always assumed that you have had quite a bit of general automotive experience. I've got to say that this is completely shocking to me.
First off, you should know about the dynamics of larger/longer/polished/etc. intake runners and their ill-effects on a stock motor. Very rarely will they give you an increase alone, or any at all.
Let me put it in your terms. When you buy a nitrous kit that states, "includes jets for 30/50/75 hp shots", does that mean that you can just simply "bolt on the kit" with a 75 shot and expect it to run? No, several things need to be added. These kinds of things are not stated on the box or website but are common knowlege when running nitrous. Point is, you won't get the 75 shot they claim, but maybe the 50. So why is this any different in your mind?
It says 15-20hp for an n/a "tuned" car. Does it say on a "stock" motor? No, but I can gaurantee that it will give AT LEAST that on a motor running 25psi and 400whp. Does it make them crooks for not including that? That is one of the first rules of tuning that you have obviously forgotten about.
Another example is a race cam. How the **** is it going to give you any gains when you have the stock air box and baffling system still there restricting it???? Do the sellers of these cams tell you to replace your airbox before installing???? lol, but they sure do like to give you their HP claims.

Did you tune the car? Do you have a wideband? If not, then how do you know that you installed it correctly. Hell, you might have a vacuum leak from the install for all you know.
Also, why are you complaining about having to drill a hole to adapt it to your betaII? Damn, you installed a nitrous kit which required the same thing.
I might be a little ticked off if I was not told about having to perform this mod too. But come on, it doesn't sound like it's that big of a deal. Is the mod really worth all this drama? :headshake

[FordFasteRR]

Do you see a stock airbox anywhere ? or stock baffling for that matter?


http://www.hyundaispeed.com/images/air-ram-1.JPG

How long have i been posting pics of my car showing that i have a 3 inch CAI ?

since then i switched to the 3 inch SRI and noticed a little improvement on throttle response with the Kspec intake..

otherwise, the car is still slower than with the stock ported IM.

Also, comparing nitrous expected gains to N/A expected gains is like apples to oranges..... its not even a fair comparison and does not justify the tremendous loss of power that I experienced with the kspec intake.

now.. about air velocity and such.. this is true.. the reason the car lost so much power is because the ports are so much bigger than stock that the air velocity decrease prevents the engine from actually breathing in more air than with the stock system...

Its still contradictory to their claim that the intake will yield 15-20 HP increase..

it doesnt say that you need a bigger set of cams or a bbtb or anything like that...but it doesnt say that you need to modify it to make it work with a beta 2 engine either and the people who buy it are totally screwed unless they know what they are doing.

eitherway... my results show the truth ... this intake is worthless on a stock internal engine.


so dont waste your bandwidth trying to school me on engine dynamics.

[JonGTR]

OMG, you just wasted your OWN time writing that worthless response, because...Analogies OWN you!!!

Reread what I said. If you still don't get it or understand what an analogy is, then here are the cliffnotes for you:

"A High performance cam will not perform well with a stock airbox/baffling system because it needs air to do its job"

This Compares to your situation that:

"The high performance Intake Manifold will not show its maximum potential with ****ty bolt on mods or lack thereof."


So to sum it up, do you really think that you have enough n/a modifications to allow the performance manifold to do its job? I think not. But, I'll help you out here by saying that the intake that you are claiming as a "mod" is a worthless design and is part of the problem you are having.

#1. It has too large of a diameter for the air your motor is trying to move. 3" will actually slow down the air velocity on any n/a, sub-200whp motor. Hell even turbo motors under 300whp keep their charge pipes at 2.5"

#2. The piping is not long enough. Just like intake runners in the manifold, you need at least a 24" long tube to create a good amount of air velocity.

#3 The combination of #1 and #2 just caused your motor to do a lot more work.

#4 The damn thing is sitting in the middle of your engine bay. The heat soak alone dropped your horsepower rating 5 points.


Do you even have an exhaust to expell all this mad air flow you're claiming? It seems to me that you bought this manifold for the bling factor and didn't bother looking into the performance issues of it and what all is required. The fact is that no one should require this manifold unless they are putting out at least 200whp n/a, or 300whp with a turbo. Otherwise its a waste of money, unless like I said, you wanted the bling. You = Ricer.

The point here is that in automotive tuning, some mods require OTHER MODS to perform to their maximum potential. End of story.

[FordFasteRR]

............#1. It has too large of a diameter for the air your motor is trying to move. 3" will actually slow down the air velocity on any n/a, sub-200whp motor. Hell even turbo motors under 300whp keep their charge pipes at 2.5"....

...... Do you even have an exhaust to expell all this mad air flow you're claiming?
.


damn... why do you keep comparing intake pipe diameters to my car using turbo motor setups?

I also think that air velocity is mostly affected by runner design not intake pipe design... i would say that its a 90/10 split in that area... 90% in favor of the runner design...

that explains why the stock manifold actually makes more power with the stock beta motor even with no other changes to the intake pipe...

considering that the only initial change that i made to my setup was to go from the stock ported manifold to the the Air ram goes to show that it is not effective enough to make any significant improvements for a BPU beta2 motor like mine.

and considering that i have the 01-03 model without a maf it would have even worse results with an 04 beta 2....


and yes, I have an "exhaust". 4-2-1 header with no cats and straight through magnaflow muffler...

just to remind you of my stats before and after...


here are the times, in the order which i actually ran them:

15.99 @ 92
15.98 @ 91.8
15.99 @ 92.1
15.78 @ 94.2
15.58 @ 94.3
15.84 @ 92
15.76 @ 94
15.86 @ 92.7
15.86 @ 91.8

and just for reference.. here are the previous best 1/4 mile times with just the stock ported manifold and stock ported TB ..

#1. 15.78 < Warmup @ 93.x
#2. 15.43 @ 94.x
#3. 15.34 * Best time with this combo. @ 95.1
#4. 15.48 @ 94.4
#5. 15.41 @ 94.2
#6. 15.48 @ 93.9

.....

lastly.. the heat variation from a CAI to a SRI are minimal at best... the pipe is equally eated for both setups... and I found that the SRI actually slightly improved the drivability of the car with the AIR RAM.

[carbonman]

Jon, Ford
Your both making valid points, but please try to keep the name calling to a minimum.
Thanks

[JonGTR]

OMG, there is no point arguing with you. You can't even read my posts correctly or draw anything from it but random points which are not mine. Once again you can't seem to comprehend the comparisons that I make and when I try to explain them to you carefully, you still pull only fragments from it. Just because I say the word "turbo" in a sentence, does not mean that my whole argument is based on a turbo motor and therefore illegitimate in comparing it to the subject at hand. It's like you're speed reading or something and only pulling 1/10th of what I'm saying. Anyways, I'm not a linguist/grammar professor, so I'm not going to sit here examining your reading and comprehensive skills so that you can better understand what I'm trying to say.
I believe what I have written is very legible and can be easily comprehended by the average person here. So until you go back and re-read the whole sentence, hopefully drawing out a little more than you did, then there's no point in holding a simple conversation with you, automotive or otherwise.

[Josh K]

Dude, this whole thing has gotten way out of hand. I think Ford's main problem was that the intake was ADVERTISED as being a direct bolt on, and was ADVERTISED at giving 15-20 HP increase on a N/A car. Nowhere in the product specs did it say that modification would be necessary, or that a certain horsepower baseline was required in order to achieve the advertised gains.

While many of you think that Ford flew off the handle, the product was grossly misrepresented and Ford was a victim of false advertising (there's NO way to dispute that). I think with all the flaming going on, the real reason he was upset got lost.

What's even more disturbing is that the description hasn't changed at all on Kspec. If the goal was to provide a quality product with good customer service, it should clearly state that the intake requires modification to fit, and that it will only benefit heavily modified motors.

[JonGTR]

.......was ADVERTISED at giving 15-20 HP increase on a N/A car.
Correction:
It was ADVERTISED at giving 15-20 HP increase on a *TUNED* N/A car.

A vague advertisement? Yes.
A misrepresented advertisement or crime? Not at all.

His car is not even close to being considered a "tuned" car which requires the manifold. :abovelol:

[OdessitPashka]

Blah! please stop this! i cant see everyone fighting over this! we are all hyundai fellas and need to be friends and dont hate each other or i will beat ya all up!!

[JonGTR]

I think he is slandering a company and its product for the wrong and petty reasons. We have very few companies that can produce products like this, especially from Korea, and come through with delivering them. So we don't want something like this driving them out.

I think I've said what I needed to say and why I said it. Peace.

[FordFasteRR]

Now that I think about it...

Even if I slapped a bigger cam in there, I will most likely loose even more mid/low range power AND I wont really gain anything on top either since those bigger cams only really add power above 6500 rpms anyway...

I think the N/A route is a loosing battle... The design of this motor is limited by the extremely high piston speed and crummy rod/stroke ratio...

i've actually built an engine that did show a tremendous improvement without rasing the rev limit because it was already super high to begin with.. (1.8L gs-r motor)

I used a skunk2 racing intake manifold which has even shorter and wider runners than this kspec intake does and a bigger set of cams from an si-r along with a ported/polished head with type R valvetrain....... then we swapped the pistons from a Type R and sure enough.. the power increase was tremendous !!! the compression went up just over 11:1 ....

Maybe a slightly higher cam profile might help the beta2 motor breather better on top end without raising the rpm limit but a small cam profile change will only show marginal improvements in power...

my point is... that to make any more power with this motor we will need higher compression and bigger cams...

I dont think i'm ready to spend that kind of $$ on this car right now so the intake must go soon. at least with the stock ported intake I can run 4 tenths faster in the 1/4 mile and actually beat some of these ricers out here...

[Steve]

Too bad this ended up in flame, this thread is quite informative. Personally I think sending my stock intake manifold to Carbonman is the most I will ever do, especially as I plan on doing no more engine mods unless I can afford to go turbo.

[Kyrol]

Correction:
It was ADVERTISED at giving 15-20 HP increase on a *TUNED* N/A car.

A vague advertisement? Yes.
A misrepresented advertisement or crime? Not at all.

His car is not even close to being considered a "tuned" car which requires the manifold. :abovelol:


No where in the group buy or the www.kspec.com does it say your motor needs to be tuned to any kind of internal mods. The only recommendation I could find was to upgrade to a BBTB.
“Quote from kspec”

Larger ported and polished Airram intake manifold for 2.0 Beta TWO engines.

These are only for Tuscani 2.0/Avante XD 2.0 Beta II engines and Tiburon/Turbulence/Avante
Beta I 2.0 engines aren't compatible.

Air speed increases due to the larger opening ports.

Every cylinder receives perfect air distribution.

The throttle body opening is 68mm.

Larger and ported/polished ports will improve 15~20hp for NA tuned cars.
Larger and ported/polished ports will improve 30~40hp for turbo tuned cars.

The gain is most noticeable at 4500RPM and higher range.


Says nothing in there about needing to modify it to fit moding would be needed for it to get the gains. How hard would it be to put an * next to it and at the bottom add a disclaimer you need i/ h/ e/ bbtb/ cams/ under drive pulleys/ ported head full stand alone fuel management and a full dyno tune

Now if you weren’t such an asshat “You” would know that he didn’t do this for any “bling factor”. He paid out of pocket and Carbonman and him had a deal worked out about some dyno time and Carbonman helping pay for the dyno time.

If you go back to the old site and look around you will see he said he would bite the bullet and buy one and see how it worked out. He was trying to get as much power N/A without having to crack the motor open. Every Hyundai company I have came across always does this over rate the mod or when you get it you have to weld this mod that cut this.

Joo = the R3tard3d
To say tuned means all of what I have posed before is just lame. I think almost everyone will agree the moment you crack the motor open your not tuned anymore your heavly moded

[JonGTR]

No where in the group buy or the www.kspec.com does it say your motor needs to be tuned...............


Larger and ported/polished ports will improve 15~20hp for NA tuned cars.
Larger and ported/polished ports will improve 30~40hp for turbo tuned cars.


Owned within your own post. :abovelol:




If you want to personally attack me or my tuning skills, then by all means, start up another thread doing so. Like I said, I'm done with this thread. But, go ahead and call me a ricer, retarded, or any other childish name you wish in another. I'll then proceded to own you with my custom t3/t4 turbo setup that was entirely created and "tuned" by myself.
But I guess me still teh "r3tard3d" with no concept of what "tuning" is in your book. :rolleyes:

You're out of your league my fine-feathered friend.

[Kyrol]

Owned within your own post. :abovelol:




If you want to personally attack me or my tuning skills, then by all means, start up another thread doing so. Like I said, I'm done with this thread. But, go ahead and call me a ricer, retarded, or any other childish name you wish in another. I'll then proceded to own you with my custom t3/t4 turbo setup that was entirely created and "tuned" by myself.
But I guess me still teh "r3tard3d" with no concept of what "tuning" is in your book. :rolleyes:

You're out of your league my fine-feathered friend.

Your going to complain about other people not reading your posts entirely….. :abovelol:

The fact that you have a turbo tib means ****. I’m sure you could walk my car without a problem. I got my Elantra because I needed a daily beater, not a fwd economy sports car :rolleyes: . Rx7’s aren't the most reliable cars in the world.

Now since you most obviously use different terms then the rest of the world. A tuned motor to 99% of the people in this world, Is a car that has been dyno tuned that has basic bolt-ons. Mildly modded normally has to do with bolt-ons and built top end. Heavily modded umm a lot of work extreme power.

I never called you a ricer. Calm your ego down buddy. I also never said you can’t “tune”. Once again trying to put words in my mouth or not reading at all. Plus this site doesn’t allow personal flames I’m sure you know that. I have nothing against you other then the fact that you like to talk out of your ***, and that you assume a lot of crap instead of doing a bit of searching first.

Making a custom turbo set up isn’t that big a deal tons of people do it all the time. So for that your get a congratulations for doing something that has been done a million times before. If I remember correctly quite a few people have turbo tibs now. So making a custom turbo kit and tuning it your self wow you are a master of the automobile world. No one better mess with you…. :bowdown: :jerkit:

[JonGTR]

It's common sense in automotive tuning and it's people like you that make companies have to put labels on their products such as "do not operate hair dryer in the shower." If you don't know anything about the product, or tuning a car in general and the effects it will have, then don't friggin buy it!!! Do you go around buying **** in which you have no clue how it works? If so, I have a few gadgets I'd like to sell you.

Tibs have been turboed "A Million times before" huh? Prove what you say is true. Find 5 custom kits on a Tib and I'll shut up. Better yet, try to find 3 that have been electronically tuned by the owner. As I recall, I'm only 1 of maybe 3 that actually have a wideband hooked up to their car, much less a turbo one. "Quite a few" my ***. I know I still have things to learn and I know that I am NOT driving a fast car, but don't assume that I don't know the meaning of tuning.

BTW, my car IS my daily driver and that is a poor excuse for saying that you don't mod yours because of it. If all you want is your stock daily driver, then why are you here attempting to know anything about performance? Your concept of a tuned car is RICE. You are the type of person that gives the automotive industry a bad name with that simple perspective of Pepboys tuning. So you can drive around in your slowass ricer "tuned" car buying ebay chips and Pepboys caliper paint, while us real tuners continue to look down on you for your ignorance and lack of true performance know-how.

Even if we took your version of a tuned car into consideration, the fact is that he only has a short pod intake which is in fact considered a de-tuned mod in his case. OMG, he so has a tuned car yo!

So go ahead and carry on living in your Pepboys tuning scene and bask in the comfort that you own a slow, stock, riceburner with a 10year warranty and NO respect from anyone that matters in the tuning world.

You've shown your true colors of being a ricer and the kind of person I DO NOT talk to, so keep saying what you will as I'm leaving you to say all you want after this.

[Josh K]

uhhh JohnGTR, I think you owned yourself in your own post. Kyrol quite clearly said:

No where in the group buy or the www.kspec.com does it say your motor needs to be tuned to any kind of internal mods. The only recommendation I could find was to upgrade to a BBTB.

Quote from kspec:

Larger and ported/polished ports will improve 15~20hp for NA tuned cars.
Larger and ported/polished ports will improve 30~40hp for turbo tuned cars.


Convenient how you put the ellipses right where it would benefit your point of view.

The last thing I'll say about this post is that when running a business, the customer is always right. If enough people on here complain that Kspec's description is misleading, it should be changed to a more accurate description of the product.

Changing the description would make them look like a reputable business that stood by its products and cared about its customers. Leaving the description up there unchanged and adopting what is essentially a buyer beware policy will cause people to think twice before buying anything from that company.

[Guess]

slow, stock, riceburner with a 10year warranty and NO respect from anyone that matters in the tuning world.
.


Um if its stock how is it "A riceburner" and you my friend also own a hyundai with that same 10 year warranty ... your points suck and to come here and start flaming on everyone and calling people ricers is ****ing stupied This is the problem with the Hyundai World everyone things there better then everyone else guess what jackass we all own these ****ing 10 year warranty out the *** cars no one is better then anyone else ... I'm about to go back to Nissan's cuz seriously the Hyundai tuners need to start growing up .

[Kyrol]

It's common sense in automotive tuning and it's people like you that make companies have to put labels on their products such as "do not operate hair dryer in the shower." If you don't know anything about the product, or tuning a car in general and the effects it will have, then don't friggin buy it!!! Do you go around buying **** in which you have no clue how it works? If so, I have a few gadgets I'd like to sell you.

Tibs have been turboed "A Million times before" huh? Prove what you say is true. Find 5 custom kits on a Tib and I'll shut up. Better yet, try to find 3 that have been electronically tuned by the owner. As I recall, I'm only 1 of maybe 3 that actually have a wideband hooked up to their car, much less a turbo one. "Quite a few" my ***. I know I still have things to learn and I know that I am NOT driving a fast car, but don't assume that I don't know the meaning of tuning.

BTW, my car IS my daily driver and that is a poor excuse for saying that you don't mod yours because of it. If all you want is your stock daily driver, then why are you here attempting to know anything about performance? Your concept of a tuned car is RICE. You are the type of person that gives the automotive industry a bad name with that simple perspective of Pepboys tuning. So you can drive around in your slowass ricer "tuned" car buying ebay chips and Pepboys caliper paint, while us real tuners continue to look down on you for your ignorance and lack of true performance know-how.

Even if we took your version of a tuned car into consideration, the fact is that he only has a short pod intake which is in fact considered a de-tuned mod in his case. OMG, he so has a tuned car yo!

So go ahead and carry on living in your Pepboys tuning scene and bask in the comfort that you own a slow, stock, riceburner with a 10year warranty and NO respect from anyone that matters in the tuning world.

You've shown your true colors of being a ricer and the kind of person I DO NOT talk to, so keep saying what you will as I'm leaving you to say all you want after this.
Okay since you said you’re done after this post I guess I will finish mine up here as well.

1. I buy a lot of **** I don’t know how it works but I understand it. To say you know how everything “EVERYTHNG” you buy you know how it works makes you well hands down the smartest person I have ever known about. The reason why companies do stick the stickers on stuff is because of retards who like to sue. I’m sure we can all remember the women who spilled coffee from McDonald’s on her self and got some mild burns and won her case because the coffee cup didn’t say contents hot on it. Find a better analogy.

2. You didn’t read my post for a 2nd time making your self look even more retarded. I never said a million turbo tibs “P L E A S E R E A D W H A T I T Y P E”. I can how ever point you to many, many, many car forums where people have turboed N/A cars. It’s not that all that uncommon. And quite a few of those people have tuned there cars. OMG YOU HAVE AWIDEBAND IN YOUR CAR THAT’S SOO KOOL!!!!1111!111 Lots of turbo cars have them and it’s something that if you go turbo is a great thing to haveto keep an eye on things. Not that big a deal.

3. I have a WAI on my car and I don’t care about performance. All I wanted was better gas mileage. If I wanted to make my car fast I could but no point in modding an I-4 fwd car when I’m saving for the new 05’ Roush mustang when they release the car and kit for it. If you do reply back to this statement o your spending 38k on a car and my car will smoke it for half that get a grip. 05 roush mustang > any turbo tib. Now you continue to say I’m a pepboys tuner. Name one thing other then the air filter. That is from Pep Boys since you seem to know my car so much better then I do. Car wax and soap don’t count.

4. My car is by no means tuned. Find one post I have ever, EVER made saying it was tuned I will give you’re a million dollars if you can find it. To be a rice burner you have to drive a rice mobile we all know what they are. My car is by no means far from factory. The only thing changed on it is the ms-design grill. Because there isn’t any other chrome on the car. The I have KDM fog lights. I’m so riced out how can I live with my self. I see you must have gone back to the old site and looked at my profile. Half the stuff that’s listed there I didn’t do or has been sold. My mods are radio/tint/foglights/grill. By no means a ricer Some would go as far as to say I’m still stock.

5. Aww I seem to have hurt your E-feelings. All you can do is call my car and I rice because I kept my car stock and didn’t ruin my warranty. So by your earlier remarks I shouldn’t even learn about automotive tuning because I don’t want spend 2-3k to make my car go from I think from the factory it runs like 17’s??? or 18’s I can’t remember a 15 second car. Do you think before you type? I can see your some pissed off guy about something. Since you have done more work then the average Hyundai guy you want to get all big headed and think everyone should respect you. What have you done that someone hasn’t done with another car that would make anyone let alone me want to respect you. You come to this board leaving half assed half witted flames. And in general have no idea wtf you are talking about in 95% of what I have seen from you.


So in conclusion you have no idea what you’re talking about. Ask questions before you go and run your mouth. And like you said early read everything for comprehension before you make a post. Other wise you will continue too look as dumb as everyone thinks and knows you are.

The end
Kyrol

Didn’t have enough time to proof read, sorry if some of it’s hard to understand.

Um if its stock how is it "A riceburner" and you my friend also own a hyundai with that same 10 year warranty ... your points suck and to come here and start flaming on everyone and calling people ricers is ****ing stupied This is the problem with the Hyundai World everyone things there better then everyone else guess what jackass we all own these ****ing 10 year warranty out the *** cars no one is better then anyone else ... I'm about to go back to Nissan's cuz seriously the Hyundai tuners need to start growing up .


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :halm:

[XTRAWLD]

OK, both of you - it is fine to have a general discussion about something - but stop the personal attacks, name calling and want not - PROVE your points, not PROVE what the guy said or didn't say and calling that you own eachother (ha, that sounds a little wrong.) Can you guys both keep this civil, this is such a stupid flame OMG.

[JonGTR]

No worries here. Like I said, I'm done.
http://www.bullittzero.com/TRS3/images/smilies/gayfight.gif

[FordFasteRR]

Ultimately... the Kspec AirRam Group Buy really does SUCK.


And it has nothing to do with anybody who posted on this thread or anything that was said... It comes down to the UNscrupulous sales tactics of the vendor.

I think it was clearly proven misleading to a large degree.

I dont think anyone can contest that statement.

My point is made.

[tharptroy]

I contest ford, its actually unscrupulous (i hope i didnt murder the spelling on that)

personally, i think rice when I hear people refer to modifying their car as tuning...a little too much F&F. tuning is slapping it on a dyno and adjusting settings for a better power curve, or for a more reliable setup.

and here's a general rule I like to follow in the "tuning" world: never beleive any vendor...you and the vendor are in opposition, he wants your money, you want something of his....think of it as a hostage situation. ford, I appreciate the fact that you were willing to drop the $ on this manifold to test it out, but im sure you know, as well as I do that the claimed gains are over the top

[FordFasteRR]

..... the claimed gains are over the top

I would be more inclined to say that tha claims are under the bottom...

Before, using stock ported IM & stock ported TB.

and just for reference.. here are the previous best 1/4 mile times with just the stock ported manifold and stock ported TB ..

#1. 15.78 < Warmup @ 93.x
#2. 15.43 @ 94.x
#3. 15.34 * Best time with this combo. @ 95.1
#4. 15.48 @ 94.4
#5. 15.41 @ 94.2
#6. 15.48 @ 93.9


AFTER:

With Kspec Intake Manifold and exact same setup as above...

15.99 @ 92
15.98 @ 91.8
15.99 @ 92.1
15.78 @ 94.2
15.58 @ 94.3
15.84 @ 92
15.76 @ 94
15.86 @ 92.7
15.86 @ 91.8


basically 4 tenths slower than before... :( darn.. where did my $600 go ???

[Viper966]

ok im gonna take a deep breath and explain some ****


first of all ur car is MAP

that means it cant sense the extra flow that any intake modifications would do.... all it does is tell ur car how much vacuum its seeing and than it takes the air temp readings and tells ur motor how much oxygen should be there

without tuning hte car on a wideband you have no way of expecting any gains from this your car is getting more air than it expects there for its running LEANer than it knows so of course your running slower, get a SAFC and get on the dyno and tune the car and ull see gains over stock


also ur car is a air pump basically its just driven a differant way, in those pictures you have stock headers, which are really limiting hte ability of the motor to PUMP that air out of the chamber, which means it cant SUCK more air in until the old **** leaves
you would need a nice exhaust system (a catback doesnt do too much but sound cool) also new cams would help take advantage


also comparing your 1/4 mile times is not a good way to judge performance gains, yes i know u think u should be running faster but it never happens that way... EVER my car when it was automatic with IHE would vary a couple of tenths on differant days.... now that its stick i can be all over the place on one day depending on air temp humidity etc... the ONLY way to compare gains by a performance product is to get yourself to the dyno and get some SAE corrected #'s


im goign to be putting ht emanifold on my car

(haltech Turbo BetaI)

and i guarantee ill find @ least 30 or more WHP at the same boost level after i get it tuned....

[tharptroy]

you really cant take a part that was designed for a turbo application, and place it on a naturally aspirated vehicle and plan to see gains. and on the contrary, track times are a hell of alot better measure of vehicle performance than dynos.

I also beleive that ford does have a header as well as an exhaust (though crush bent it may be). Not to mention that he wasnt running stock manifold and TB, his were ported.

what it boils down to is that turbo cars benefit more from different modifications than naturally aspirated ones. you may well see 30whp with your car, but under no circumstances would a naturally aspirated beta ever see 30whp with that manifold.