oregun
04-26-2005, 10:37 PM
Okay, I've been "smoldering" over a small argument that turned ugly and now I'm in way too deep to back out.
This regards any and all forms of electric-powered air intake charging devices, i.e. Eram, E-Turbo, leaf blowers, twin turbo zet, blower fans on Ebay, etc. . .
I feel that if you install one of these devices on your car, your should still consider you car to be natrually aspirated (hence I have posted in this fourm.) I make this claim because I don't forsee any of these devices producing over 1 psi of POSITIVE pressure in the intake manifold. I will conceed that the effect of removing all the vacume from the intake manifold also has an equal effect of incresing the air density, however, this can be accomplished via a Ram-Air system ala the Pontiac Firebird.
Furthermore, from a functional standpoint. None of these devices really claim more than 10 hp. And that's about what you get from a typical N/A modification. Whenever you talk about forced induction - numbers typically start around 35 hp.
Anyone have a consenting or decenting opinion?
So, the argument:
Person A is AGAINST these type of devices.
Person B is wants to BUY one of these devices
I walk into the middle of this argument and they both ask me what I think.
Since I have never seen any of these products, I give an explaination about the physics and my opinion about the possible gains.
Now, I don't really like person B. He's an *** and I pretty much let him know every opportuinty I get. In fact, I really get a kick out of pissing him off. So I bet him that if he gets one of these things and gains 5%, I'll buy one too.
A week later, he shows me a dyno for his Chevy Cavaliar, signed by the tech. Four runs.
#1) CAI - 125.3 hp
#2) Eram unpowered - 125.4 hp
#3) Eram powered - 133.1
#4) Eram powered - 132.9
****. I thought he was going to buy one of those Ebay things.
So I take his car for a spin and I pop the hood periodically and tell him to do something - either hook it up, or disconnect it, but don't tell me.
I made note of whether I thought it was connected or disconnected on a piece of paper - and was right 13/15 times based on the butt dyno.
Actually, it was the shift dyno. I could really tell based on the 1-2 shift. When it was on, first gear went buy much quicker.
Ugg, time to pay up. I ordered an Eram http://www.electricsupercharger.com/eram2.php
So, I've had this thing for about 2.5 weeks. So far, I've done everything I can think of with it, except hook it up to my car.
So, the E-ram makes 0.35 PSI ( I have a guage that reads to 1mm HG) of static positive pressure. To do so, it requires a bit over 55 amps @ 13.8v. 10 seconds after activating the unit, you can feel the air it moves start to warm-up a few degrees. I'm told that you shouldn't operate the unit for over 45 seconds at a time.
This thing really moves an *** load of air. I don't have a flow bench, but they claim 1100 cfm of free air. I do know that if you blow air into your face, it's pretty hard to breath :)
So, the fun part. I took it all apart and looked at the motor and stuff. It's made by Plettenberg. I looked them up and sure enough, most of their motors are used in R/C planes and boats. The actual unit isn't nice, but it isn't lousy either. I just realized I didn't take any picutres, and it's kind too late now . . . I ordered the inline unit, and the inside is a cylindrical axial fan. The unit is 3.5 inches ID and 2.75 inches long ( and if you count the "ball" infront of the fan blades and the overhang of the motor, it's about 4 inches long), and the motor sits in the middle and measures 1 inch across (which makes the Eram equivilant to a 3.3 inch diameter pipe in terms of surface area if you ignore the fan blades - and I'd guess that even with the fan blades, it would flow just as much as a 3 inch pipe.)
The coupling for the filter side of the unit is a 4" rubber plumbing coupling with an enlargement for a "ring" that I assume serves some sort of aerodynamic purpose, like a velocity stack (see the picture of the standard Eram). The coupling for the engine side of the unit is a 3 inch coupling that is stretched out to fit over the 3.6 inch housing of the Eram casing. At first, I couldn't figure out why the two sides are different, but after thinking for awhile, if you stretched the 3 inch coupling over the filter side of the unit, I think it might compress the housing and cause the fanblades to grind up against the housing??? Or maybe you can't get the 3 inch coupling with the enlargment part. In the directions, they indicate that no other couplings should be used and that they have been installed in a particular position, at a particular torque. Well, there is definately a particular part of the Eram that you would want to tighten any clamp onto. The "back" 1.25 inches of the fan have 5 supports that center the motor in the casing. You want to have the clamps on top of those supports.
Anyways, now that I had those couplings off, I was playing with the velocity stack and it turns out you can just pop it right off, which got me thinkin' why don't they use real 3.5 to 3 inch transitions instead of this plumbing crap.
So, now I have an Eram, in many pieces. The ring was tradgically destroyed in an experiement that had nothing to do with the operation of the Eram. So, I did the logical thing and got some real 3.5 to 3 inch transitions and they work much better.
I also bought a competiting unit and have begun the "fan-wars." I have been hooking them up back to back and seeing which unit can blow through the other and other silly crap like launching balls out of tubing. When I go dyno my header and tune my emanage, I'll bring them along. Then the whole debate can have some finality. For now, I have some expensive parts and a lot of time to think up my revenge.
This regards any and all forms of electric-powered air intake charging devices, i.e. Eram, E-Turbo, leaf blowers, twin turbo zet, blower fans on Ebay, etc. . .
I feel that if you install one of these devices on your car, your should still consider you car to be natrually aspirated (hence I have posted in this fourm.) I make this claim because I don't forsee any of these devices producing over 1 psi of POSITIVE pressure in the intake manifold. I will conceed that the effect of removing all the vacume from the intake manifold also has an equal effect of incresing the air density, however, this can be accomplished via a Ram-Air system ala the Pontiac Firebird.
Furthermore, from a functional standpoint. None of these devices really claim more than 10 hp. And that's about what you get from a typical N/A modification. Whenever you talk about forced induction - numbers typically start around 35 hp.
Anyone have a consenting or decenting opinion?
So, the argument:
Person A is AGAINST these type of devices.
Person B is wants to BUY one of these devices
I walk into the middle of this argument and they both ask me what I think.
Since I have never seen any of these products, I give an explaination about the physics and my opinion about the possible gains.
Now, I don't really like person B. He's an *** and I pretty much let him know every opportuinty I get. In fact, I really get a kick out of pissing him off. So I bet him that if he gets one of these things and gains 5%, I'll buy one too.
A week later, he shows me a dyno for his Chevy Cavaliar, signed by the tech. Four runs.
#1) CAI - 125.3 hp
#2) Eram unpowered - 125.4 hp
#3) Eram powered - 133.1
#4) Eram powered - 132.9
****. I thought he was going to buy one of those Ebay things.
So I take his car for a spin and I pop the hood periodically and tell him to do something - either hook it up, or disconnect it, but don't tell me.
I made note of whether I thought it was connected or disconnected on a piece of paper - and was right 13/15 times based on the butt dyno.
Actually, it was the shift dyno. I could really tell based on the 1-2 shift. When it was on, first gear went buy much quicker.
Ugg, time to pay up. I ordered an Eram http://www.electricsupercharger.com/eram2.php
So, I've had this thing for about 2.5 weeks. So far, I've done everything I can think of with it, except hook it up to my car.
So, the E-ram makes 0.35 PSI ( I have a guage that reads to 1mm HG) of static positive pressure. To do so, it requires a bit over 55 amps @ 13.8v. 10 seconds after activating the unit, you can feel the air it moves start to warm-up a few degrees. I'm told that you shouldn't operate the unit for over 45 seconds at a time.
This thing really moves an *** load of air. I don't have a flow bench, but they claim 1100 cfm of free air. I do know that if you blow air into your face, it's pretty hard to breath :)
So, the fun part. I took it all apart and looked at the motor and stuff. It's made by Plettenberg. I looked them up and sure enough, most of their motors are used in R/C planes and boats. The actual unit isn't nice, but it isn't lousy either. I just realized I didn't take any picutres, and it's kind too late now . . . I ordered the inline unit, and the inside is a cylindrical axial fan. The unit is 3.5 inches ID and 2.75 inches long ( and if you count the "ball" infront of the fan blades and the overhang of the motor, it's about 4 inches long), and the motor sits in the middle and measures 1 inch across (which makes the Eram equivilant to a 3.3 inch diameter pipe in terms of surface area if you ignore the fan blades - and I'd guess that even with the fan blades, it would flow just as much as a 3 inch pipe.)
The coupling for the filter side of the unit is a 4" rubber plumbing coupling with an enlargement for a "ring" that I assume serves some sort of aerodynamic purpose, like a velocity stack (see the picture of the standard Eram). The coupling for the engine side of the unit is a 3 inch coupling that is stretched out to fit over the 3.6 inch housing of the Eram casing. At first, I couldn't figure out why the two sides are different, but after thinking for awhile, if you stretched the 3 inch coupling over the filter side of the unit, I think it might compress the housing and cause the fanblades to grind up against the housing??? Or maybe you can't get the 3 inch coupling with the enlargment part. In the directions, they indicate that no other couplings should be used and that they have been installed in a particular position, at a particular torque. Well, there is definately a particular part of the Eram that you would want to tighten any clamp onto. The "back" 1.25 inches of the fan have 5 supports that center the motor in the casing. You want to have the clamps on top of those supports.
Anyways, now that I had those couplings off, I was playing with the velocity stack and it turns out you can just pop it right off, which got me thinkin' why don't they use real 3.5 to 3 inch transitions instead of this plumbing crap.
So, now I have an Eram, in many pieces. The ring was tradgically destroyed in an experiement that had nothing to do with the operation of the Eram. So, I did the logical thing and got some real 3.5 to 3 inch transitions and they work much better.
I also bought a competiting unit and have begun the "fan-wars." I have been hooking them up back to back and seeing which unit can blow through the other and other silly crap like launching balls out of tubing. When I go dyno my header and tune my emanage, I'll bring them along. Then the whole debate can have some finality. For now, I have some expensive parts and a lot of time to think up my revenge.