KSpec Intake + Evo Fusion BBTB :(

[FordFasteRR]

STRIKE 2 ! so far, i have spent about $800 total on intake mods... kspec intake and evo fusion BBTB... i have managed to make my car 4 tenths of a second SLOWER than what it was doing before using the stock manifold and stock TB..... WHAT GIVES !

car runs 3 tenths slower than before with the BBTB.



It also idles higher for some reason...

I have not yet utilized the Split Second fuel tuner...

but after i got home from testing.. I played around with it at idle, ..

the car idles at 1000 to 1000 rpms ...

if i turn down the low end fuel setting to -4 it idles back to stock levels... this means that its getting WAAAYYY too much fuel at idle... which may also be the case at WOT...

so, i'll go out again tomorrow and test again with various fuel settings... and then we'll see what I can come up with...

here are the times, in the order which i actually ran them:

15.99 @ 92
15.98 @ 91.8
15.99 @ 92.1
15.78 @ 94.2
15.58 @ 94.3
15.84 @ 92
15.76 @ 94
15.86 @ 92.7
15.86 @ 91.8

and just for reference.. here are the previous best 1/4 mile times with just the stock ported manifold and stock ported TB ..

#1. 15.78 < Warmup @ 93.x
#2. 15.43 @ 94.x
#3. 15.34 * Best time with this combo. @ 95.1
#4. 15.48 @ 94.4
#5. 15.41 @ 94.2
#6. 15.48 @ 93.9

here are the pics...

http://nitrousworld.com/images/2004-Evo-Fusion-bbtb/P1010008.JPG

http://nitrousworld.com/images/2004-Evo-Fusion-bbtb/P1010009.JPG

http://nitrousworld.com/images/2004-Evo-Fusion-bbtb/P1010010.JPG

This is how much of the stock gasket I had to cut to fit the size of the NEW TB...

http://nitrousworld.com/images/2004-Evo-Fusion-bbtb/P1010011.JPG

http://nitrousworld.com/images/2004-Evo-Fusion-bbtb/P1010012.JPG


TOO bad its not even nearly as fast as it looks :(

http://nitrousworld.com/images/2004-Evo-Fusion-bbtb/P1010013.JPG

[badger]

now will you try a stock TB with that manifold? I'll even go out on a limb and predict it will improve driveability over the BBTB and perform about the same or a little better than your bored stock TB.

[only1db]

how big is the bore....maybe its too big! and hence the air is slowed down? :confused:

[WytchDctr]

what is the air temp diffrence between those runs. (from stock IM to kspec)

[2004ElantraGLS]

Hey Ford, what about adjustable Cam Gears? Maybe an adjustment is either direction of the intake and exhaust cams might help things out a bit.

[FordFasteRR]

i'm not sure if i'm ready to go that far yet... it will be a huge mission to get those adjusters installed + they cost like $150 each and i'd have to buy two of them... one of the exhaust cam (timing belt pulley) and one for the intake cam ( adjustable sprocket).

then i'd have to tear my upper engine apart just to get them installed...

i dont know how much more i should put into this car before i realize i'm wasting my time lol..

I could be riding a sportbike right now... :) with all the money i would have saved.

[OdessitPashka]

yea..... doesnt look too good :(

[only1db]

actually the money spent on NA could have been toward a turbo :mad:

[OdessitPashka]

nah, he's spending the money that he got back from selling all of the stuff....

[WytchDctr]

im going to the track soon and im not expecting anything special with my lights mods. If i break 16.5 ill be happy. Im not going to spend any more money for the engine... seeing what the IMs and tbs do.... atleast not n/a anyway.

[FordFasteRR]

Take a look at all of the pics I added to the first post on this thread... :)

[vabeach_03]

witchdctr. i have a short ram and 1/2 a cat back and i pulled a 16.67. you should get close to a 16.5

[FordFasteRR]

I will be switching to a Hyundaispeed.com short ram intake very soon...

Then I will benchmark the performance levels again..

I will also be playing with my fuel control system (split second ARC1).

I plan to keep everyone update on my results as usual.

[slvrsleeper]

I'm sure you have already answered these questions but here goes. First, what if any upgrades to your stock ECU are you using? Second, would a stand-alone custom programmable engine management system yield results given the extensive top end mods you have? I know that when the Honda guys start to get into high horsepower NA tuning they almost always use a stand alone. Lastly your current stats and state of tune are an admirable benchmark for the rest of us NA guys, current IM problems aside of course. Good Work!

[labmixz]

Well... My EvoFusion BBTB came in... and I'm really disappointed...

the bolt that is there to tighten the idle, well the bolt is not threaded right at all, cross threded, mis-threaded, and any other way you can say it's fked up :)

Despite the BBTB, they did a good job on the CAI...

http://www.labmixz.com/images/bbtb1.jpg
http://www.labmixz.com/images/bbtb2.jpg
http://www.labmixz.com/images/bbtb3.jpg
http://www.labmixz.com/images/bbtb4.jpg
http://www.labmixz.com/images/bbtb5.jpg

[OdessitPashka]

that blows!!! is there any way you can fix it?

[sed]

three words

tap and die

:)

shawn

[evil247]

fuzzy pictures make my eyes hurt. Use a macro function or something. Is that what your message was about last night?

[labmixz]

fuzzy pictures make my eyes hurt. Use a macro function or something. Is that what your message was about last night?

My macro feature doesn't work right because I dropped the camera one too many times... lol...

But ya tap and die (or dye?) kit my dad is suppose to get from a co-worker tomorrow, point is I shouldn't have to do this... this was the worst I've ever seen on a threading job...

And ya Evil, thats what the message was about, fking shizzznit...

[sed]

lol just be happy that it has the provisions for the idle air control :)

jeez, you act like people should give you what you pay for!

;)

shawn :)

[FordFasteRR]

you souldnt have to **** with that bolt or anything attached to it ...

why do you need to remove that ?????????

[sed]

lol cause he wants to

I think its IAC screw...

member when you put yours in and the idle was all fugged??

shawn :)

[FordFasteRR]

the only thing you can do with the screw is RAISE the idle above stock levels..

also, the screw he circled in the picture is not the idle adjustment screw, its the long bolt that holds the butterfly..

there is no reason on earth to EVER **** with that.

:)

[labmixz]

you souldnt have to **** with that bolt or anything attached to it ...

why do you need to remove that ?????????


First off you can't adjust the idle cause the fking idoits and evofusion made the damn thing stripped, when trying to adjust the idle the nut just turned twice then slipped back, you could not tighten it.

[FordFasteRR]

First off you can't adjust the idle cause the fking idoits and evofusion made the damn thing stripped, when trying to adjust the idle the nut just turned twice then slipped back, you could not tighten it.


ok.. I understand a little more now..

question: Why do you have to adjust your idle ?

Describe the problem that you are having that made you feel you need to adjust something on the TB. ?

[labmixz]

Here's a quote from my post on the tsr forum (http://www.newtiburon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=158385#post158385)

If your wondering why I looked at this nut to begin with, it was because after I just put the BBTB on, the car idled fine right where my idle was always (I have a SAFC, so I can tell exactly where the idle is) then I took the car for a ride around the block, with nt.com member Jameson, around 4k rpm it would catch and continue to give gas even though my foot wasn't on the pedal, then I put it out of gear (Neutral) and it dropped to 1k rpm then with haste crawled up to 6k, then I had to turn off the car... Going around my block (less than half a mile) I had to turn off my car 3 times just to get back to my house...

Once back to my house I remembered people on the boards (nt.com) having problems with the idle nut ~ I justed it, I could loosen it BY HAND... having never touched the nut before, I am suprised this didn't fly off when I was using the car or something... I tried to tighten it, it would not tighten, it would turn twice then slip back... further inspection found that it was stripped, further inspection found that it has a narrow end and a fatter mid section on the bolt... as well as stripped thread, due to the narrow end it would not stay put...

[FordFasteRR]

ok, as promised... I have switched from this intake:

http://nitrousworld.com/images/2004-Evo-Fusion-bbtb/P1010013.JPG



to this Hyundaispeed.com intake:


http://www.hyundaispeed.com/images/air-ram-3.JPG


There is a noticable improvement in throttle response.

As far as 1/4 mile times.. I wont be able to tell you guys until two weeks from now.. since i've been busy and i'll be on a trip this weekend...


wish me luck !



one more note: I have found that since the AirRam intake has an elbow to it... it positions the trottle body toward the front of the car.. instead of straight to the side.. its like a 10 degree angle... this throws the routing of the intake pipe off by the same amount... I had to extend the bracket to make it fit properly... Stupid AirRam.


lol... just one problem after another with this thing. If this last mod doesnt help.. i'm switching back to a stock ported IM and i'll sell this AirScam intake fast as hell.

[slvrsleeper]

introducing the official fordfasterr intake custmo mod VELCRO on the intake manifold mounts! Ha Ha LOL,

[FordFasteRR]

introducing the official fordfasterr intake custmo mod VELCRO on the intake manifold mounts! Ha Ha LOL,


I dont get it ?

:confused:

[Bnystrom]

I dont get it ?

:confused:

I think he's implying that it's for quick manifold changes. ;)

[badger]

2 suggestions, Ford. try a stock TB, but i wouldn't expect any big gain.
2. Fabricate a neck to fit between the TB and the IM. I'd make it smaller ID than the opening in the IM. Length? trial and error-you're in uncharted territory.

[Josh K]

I think he originally tested it with a stock TB. It was slow so he thought perhaps the TB was choking it, so he moved to the bigger one and went even slower.

As I think has been pointed out, the manifold is way too free flowing for a N/A application. It probably does increase H/P due to increased flow, but on a stock four banger, the little torque that is there is completely obliterated due to the absence of any backpressure (remember that a 3" CAI will actually slow the car compared to a 2.25"?), making it impossible to ever get to those H/P gains.

This manifold might be good for a t/c'ed car, but on a 4 cylinder engine putting out little more than 100rwhp, it's useless.

[sed]

Its useless on any car that isn't built josh.

This is a high revving power adder. The faster the engine is spining, the more air that is being sucked in. At 6500, our rev limiter, there is no way near enough engine speed to justify this higher flowing manifold. Even with 100rwhp, if you revved up to say 8000 rpm, this manifold would absolutley add quite a bit of power. Its the fact that we are a relatively limited rpm power band.

To get ANY gains from this manifold, you would have to rev the enigine much high than stock limiter. To do that you need:

cams, pistons, ECU reprogram. etc...

That is why we were so adament in that group buy for noone to buy this, because without MAJOR modification to the engine, you will be losing quite a lot of hp.

He did try it with a stock tb, he tried it with our custom bbtb, then tried it with the new machined bbtb. Believe me, we have tried everything imagineable to fix the manifold.

The only way he is getting his power back is by getting rid of the air ram and putting back a ported stock IM.

hope that helps

shawn :)