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This is what happens when you don't change your timing belt regularly.

32K views 47 replies 20 participants last post by  Tomcat360 
#1 ·
I am repairing my brothers car which quit on him because the timing belt stripped/broke. He got the car and did not change the timing belt, and the piston did kiss a valve (actually it whacks the valve quite hard). It hit all of the exhaust valves enough to bend them. The intake valves are also not good.


On this picture, the valves on the lower row are the exhaust valves, and they are all stuck open because they are bent. The one on the left is bent at a 90 degree angle.


That severely bent valve got hit by the piston on the right. It put a good dimple on the top of the piston, but it can be saved.

To fix the head, it costs around $1200 bucks because all of the exhaust valves have to be replaced, if the head is salvageable, and all of the valves have to be ground to make it even. Labor to remove and reinstall the top and front of the engine is around $750. Parts alone are $650. $2550 later, you get your car back.

If you replace the timing belt under the manufacturers recommended replacement schedule, which is every 60,000 miles, the cost is around $600.00 parts and labor.

My brothers car is a Mitsubishi Eclipse with the 4G63 2 liter engine.
 
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#2 ·
i would have swapped in a new used motor before spending $2500 to rebuild it.
 
#3 ·
It is not costing him $2500 to fix it. I am getting it done at my cost, plus labor. About $1650 to do. That $2500 is about the average price to redo the top end and do the timing belt correctly.

The local 4G63 engines are not very good here; they are bad and have been abused. Miles are high and many of them have low compression.

This way, I will know what is in the engine, which I have to guarantee. Once it leaves the shop, I want it to be reliable.
 
#5 ·
I am not satified with the work from others because I don't trust them. I do it myself; and it will be done my way.

I don't want any problems with the engine later on, and it will be done correctly.
 
#7 · (Edited)
You don't know what you are getting (most of the time) when you get a used engine. It costs more than $1500 including labor to replace a motor. My shop charges at least $1100 in labor only just to R&R a motor; not including parts and the cost of the motor. Plan on spending at least $700 just in parts; water pump, thermostat, timing belt, balance shaft belt, tensioners for each, idler, belts, hoses, spark plugs, wires, oil/filter, PVC valve, gasket set, seals, clutch kit, etc. Add the cost of the motor to that and also add labor to that. It adds up quickly. On the 4G63 engine, there is a balance shaft (like the older Mitsubishi/Hyundai 2.4 liter engines), and that also is run by its own timing belt.

This way, I know exactly what goes into the engine and I know it will be done right, which my brother wants. He does not want something that will break next week if the engine is replaced with a used one.

That $1500 includes labor to tear down the engine, and redoing what needs redoing. The head will need a complete overhaul. I have all 16 valves on order, but won't know until the head is beyond repair until the cams are removed so the valves can be pulled. I know the seat on the one valve has to be replaced, but can't tell at the moment if it is cracked. because I can't see behind the valve seat until it is removed.
 
#10 ·
The rods are fine, had them out this morning to check the pistons and to clean off the piston and rering them ($45.00 for a ring kit). That one piston took a good whack, but cleaned off, it is fine. Bearings look almost new. Apparently this has been tore down before, probably more than once. Cylindar walls had no scores and a minor hone to seat the new rings. Although the old rings were fine and within spec, I wanted to make sure the engine was in good shape once it is together.

600 bucks!! na dawg...come to my house and it costs $200! and thats with oem belts. not to mention friendly converstation and a good eye to look over the rest of the car. Anybody want to take a trip to the space coast of FL? hah


those 4g's will be worse then the betat because they are dual sprockets for the cams. So they just go in whatever direction...atleast the beta motor uses the exhaust then turns the intake with the chain. so there are only two variables instead of three. Still bad though.
I think the exhaust cam, which is the set that bent, did get out of time and the intake sprocket went in another direction. The tensioner and hydraulic tensioner apparently was loose when he got the car and was making one hell of a racket when the motor was running. That looseness got worse until the timing belt stripped.


I have seen bent valves, but not at 90 degrees and hammered into the head like that. A friend of mine sent me a set of 16 valves and 8 rockers, already ground and new. That lowers my cost, but the average price here for the job is higher than in FL. It is going to cost me at least $400-550 just for the head work alone, and my labor rate for my brother is $500 to remove the head and front of the cover, replace the parts and install everything.

While I'm at it, I'm also replacing the fuel filter (it is under the hood) and all hoses since they were bad as well.
 
#9 · (Edited)
600 bucks!! na dawg...come to my house and it costs $200! and thats with oem belts. not to mention friendly converstation and a good eye to look over the rest of the car. Anybody want to take a trip to the space coast of FL? hah


those 4g's will be worse then the betat because they are dual sprockets for the cams. So they just go in whatever direction...atleast the beta motor uses the exhaust then turns the intake with the chain. so there are only two variables instead of three. Still bad though.
 
#12 ·
You know, for 1600 dollars i am having all the internals replaced with all forged parts...

Plus you could probably put a motor off Ebay for about 500-1000 dollars or get one shipped.

I think only1db would be a good offer for 200 plus the conversation. But yeah i guess i should change my timing belt while i get my engine upgraded so i don't see this in my future... urrgg
 
#18 ·
I am charging my brother $440 to rebuild the head with:
1. 16 new valves.
2. 8 new valve guides (exhaust guides broke)
3. 8 new rockers
4 3 angle valve grind
5. Mill head (head was warped).

Normally I would charge up to $1200 to do a head (on this one about $850.00). I know that the engine was taken apart more than once, that is obvious, with missing bolts here and there and a header installed.

I know you don't like to replace tensioners and idlers every time but I do because they don't last forever, especially if the idler and tensioner is under tension. It costs less to do the same work once instead of twice. I have told customers I recommend replacing the idler/tensioners, but when they don't, they end up paying me twice when the new belt strips out and valves get bent. My brother had that assumption and let the timing belt go, and even with the noises that the engine had, he ended up destroying the valves. he could have saved himself $900.00
 
#20 ·
Replacing the timing belt is somewhat similar, but different as well. There should be a DIY either here and/or Elantraclub.

We did get the car running, BUT we also had to deal with a low spot on the block that was leaking oil, and we were not comfortable decking the block. We did seal it up and also sealed the exhaust manifold stud that went into the oil return port of the head. Before it would not pass emissions, but now it does.
 
#23 · (Edited)
You don't just replace the timing belt on these cars. The idler pulley, tensioner wheel, hydraulic tensioner and balance shaft belt and tensioner wheel also has to be replaced as well as accessory belts, water pump, thermostat and water outlet gasket. If the tensioner and idler wheels are not replaced with the belt (especially the idler pulley), the new belt won't last. That is what happened before my brother got the car. The previous owner had the timing belt replaced about 18,000 miles before it broke and since the idler/tensioner wheels were not replaced, the belt did not last.

Pay $600 to me now or pay $2500-3100 to me later when the pistons hit the valves requiring the head to be rebuilt.

The Beta engine has a tensioner wheel and a timing belt. The 4G63 has a tensioner wheel with a hydraulic tensioner, a idler wheel, a second belt for the balance shaft and a second tensioner wheel for the balance shaft belt. What I do is get the timing belt kit which has the belts, tensioner and idler wheels in one package. The hydraulic tensioner is a separate item.
 
#26 ·
Yeah... because I'm all about "cheaping out". You just love ripping people off.... we've seen that with your "brake jobs",.
 
#27 ·
My brake job work detail is spelled out in insurance policy requirements and state law. By law and by insurance policy, anytime I work on brake systems in a shop, I must guarantee the work for at least 12 months. We are held liable if that system fails and causes a collision.

You prefer to cheap out because you don't give a **** about anybody else except youself.

It is not a rip off. Spending $600.00 now on a proper timing belt replacement, which includes wheels and other components is a lot better than spending less, then a year later spending 3 times that, or more later because the new timing belt broke because the wheels were not replaced. It is actually cheaper in the long run when you do it my way.
 
#28 ·
Colin, I used to think you were a ripoff artist, because you charge your customer for unneeded stuff. Calipers during a brake job being one example. Then I realized I was wrong. You can't be a ripoff artist, you're just a liar. You don't own a shop. You never built the bad-*** truck you claim to have built. You just try to repeat things you've heard intelligent people say and hope that it's correct (which it hardly ever seems to be).
 
#29 ·
gotta say all of the 3.5 and 2.4 mitsu motor timing belts t hat i have done, i never replaced the pulleys or water pumps...even the crank plate didnt get replaced as long as the motor didnt get tore up.


calipers during a routine brake job? really?
 
#31 ·
Remember folks, in Washington it's state LAW that all shops must replace every item on your car related to brakes. STATE LAW.

Keep digging deeper Colin.... keep digging deeper. You;ll get banned here too for all your lying, decieving and creating drama.
 
#32 ·
I work at a shop too and have seen my fair share of calipers replaced that I personally wouldn't have replaced if were my own. At first I was rather unhappy about it - for much the same reason some of you are... But then I decided that it's worth the peace of mind for the customer to not have to worry about it and for us to maintain a good reputation because our "fixes" stayed fixed. I mean just because the slides are still free doesn't guarantee the caliper will stay working properly for the next 30+ thousand miles. As I'm sure you all know, some calipers have plastic pistons- they are prone hanging up. In a dual piston caliper, what if one piston hangs a touch more than the other? What if the seal(s) start leaking because prior to replacing the brakes, the pads were worn to nothing - being pushed back in can cause them to leak down the road.

I know there's a few uber mechanics out there that wouldn't think twice about re-using a caliper and could replace it in no time flat should the need arise, but not everybody can or wants to go back to a garage to fix the brakes that just got fixed... Also think of all the retarded mouth breathing people out there who will ignore the warning signs of failing brakes... Do you really want that car on the road with bad brakes?

I agree on the timing belt thing too. It's cheap insurance. I replaced my belt at 53k and I honestly don't think the idler or tensioner (can't remember which) would have gone to the next belt replacement....

Oh well... Just my 2 cents worth - senior douche and ricer go ahead and bash away. Why is it you two *******s are still on this board?
 
#33 ·
Hyundai calipers, especially fronts RARELY go bad.
 
#34 ·
^agreed...helli have only seen a handful of rears go.


i'm on the douche side...its un-needed. if it fails down the way, then fix it. if you lube everything right and bleed the brake system (while pushing the caliper in OR pop the cap off the brake resevior) there is no internal pressure that can damage the caliper.

law is the law...but here in florida...there are almost no laws about maintaining your car unless the cops want to pick on you. i have seen my fair share of tread sticking out of tires and crap that could literally fall apart a mile down the road.

but all in all its YOUR car do what you want. I WILL be replacing my t belt, water pump and idler pulleys this time around i'm at 182k i'm on the original stuff (minus the belts..its my third)
 
#35 ·
feeding the troll:
info from washington state attorney general site:

"Warranties:

There is no such thing as a "standard warranty" on repairs. Make sure you understand what is covered under your warranty and get it in writing. Warranties are usually subject to limitations, including: mileage, deductibles, businesses authorized to perform warranty work, and special procedures required to obtain reimbursement. Compare warranty policies. The repair facility must make available any express warranty provided by the repair facility to the customer that covers repairs performed on the vehicle. Call the ConsumerLine for more information (Tapes #145, #146 and #960)." If you offer a warranty, good for you, but it's not required by law. don't rip off the customer just because you do, though.

I actually had a front caliper fail. After 4 years in salty quebec, I couldn't remove the rotors so I just said f'k-it and had the dealership do the front brake job. Less than a year goes by and the passenger side pads are gone and so is the passenger side rotor. The Hyundai dealer I went to had a 12 month, 12000 mile warranty on their repairs so I went back. Apparently the piston had seized somewhere down the road... they replaced pads and rotor free, the *could* have blamed the caliper being old and charge me for a new caliper cuz who knows when it died, but they didn't and replaced it for me too.

That being said, you can only be held liable if you were negligent in the repairs. I guarantee there's no such law that says for brake repairs you must change every brake component. Where does that stop, new brake booster, new master cylinder?
 
#42 ·
I would be held financially liable if that brake job I did did not hold up and a collission occured; which Bob does not see. Lets say, I did a brake pad replacement on a car, and 6 months later the brakes failed and the car was in a collision and it was determined by the investigator that the brakes failed, and why they failed, what part was involved and whether I had inspected it. The owners insurance company will determine who is liable for the damages. They can decide that if the brake job I did did not include rebuilding the caliper (if that was the part that failed), I would be liable to pay for damages. I am not going to put myself in a position where I may be sued. This is company policy in many shops who do brake work. They replace parts to ensure there will be no problems because they don't want to be sued. They also have to put it in writing that they believe the system will function without problems (warranty) for the standard time period, and if it fails, they must replace those defective parts at no cost to the customer.

Same issue with the timing belts. Wheels can go bad, and if the shop neglects to inspect the wheels, the timing belt or belts, as the case with the 4G63, may unexpectedly break because of looseness of the belt, or friction because the wheel bearing does not allow the wheel to turn freely. This destroys the belt, which in turn on interference engines, bends valves. This is what exactly happened to John's car. The previous owner had replaced the timing belt, but not the balance shaft belt or the wheels. Soon after John bought it, the timing belt started flopping around and started to make noises at the timing belt area. It wasn't long before the balance shaft belt broke sending the main timing belt off enough to sheer the teeth. That bent 7 exhaust valves and broke the 8th exhaust valve. If the previous owner replaced the belts and wheels, the head would be fine.
 
#36 ·
^ And there it is. Once again, called out on a lie. A blatant, easily trounced lie.
 
#38 ·
calipers on a regular brake job is just ridiculous. if your working on cars saying to yourself "what if this or what if that" than you might as well just replace every part on the god dam car.

might as well replace all the brake linestoo because "what if" they explode. all the bolts holding the calipers too because "what if" they rust out and the caliper loosens its way off. and dont forget the rotors! dam you guys must be making a killing off of brake jobs!

i called bul**** on colin years ago when he talked about his xd/hd build. your parts and labor prices are changing in every post. i dont even believe you have a brother.


daaaaamm i feel like bob!
 
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