Vortex Generator - Evo MR

[josefresco]

I was reading ModernRacer.com's review of the Mitsu Evo MR, and noticed this line about half way down the page:

"At the trailing edge of the MR Edition's roof, a vortex generator creates small vortices that reduce drag and increase the down force generated by the rear-deck spoiler. "

I was just at the New Englend auto show in Boston and on display was an MR, and I too noticed the "vortext" generator. But did not know what it was for (it did look cool however)

Is something like this possibe/available for our cars? Would it matter if you had a spoiler or not? Does anyone have more info on this?

Saw this topic on an evo site: http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthr...3&page=2&pp=15 these guys sure like to talk about "rice" alot

For you who are too lazy to read, they say you need the evo 8 spoiler to take advantage and it does make a small but valid difference.

[josefresco]

Forgot the pic, this is from edmunds.com, they call the vortex generator "sinister", see the back edge of the roof...



They go on to say "Contrary to its complex-sounding name, the vortex generator is merely a strip of specially designed fins that are designed to flow more air to the rear spoiler for added downforce."

It's an akamai pic so not sure how long it will last.

another pic...

[felixr]

you know i must . . .



haha, i posted right after you posted the pic i mean literally seconds

[josefresco]

ha, beat you to it felixr

[felixr]

lol welcome to the site from me by the way have a good thanksgiving buddy

[th003g]

works by increasing disturbed air above car in area of rear window... creating a high pressure area.....decreasing lift and increasing downforce..

[hyunelan2]

And for this to be effective you have to be going how fast? Like 150mph? Personally I think they look like 8 of those ricer stick on fake XM antennas lining the roof.

If this were really good, how come Ferrari, Porsche, etc. hasn't been putting them on LeMans cars and stuff? It seriously looks rediculous.

[SuperGLS]

If you gained any noticable power/speed I would be surprised. And hyunelan2 is right on this one, it's eww.

[josefresco]

Hey now..easy boy, from what I've read you don't need to be going 150 to have it work, seems like the conesus is 70 MPH (muck around on google and you'll find the same answers as did I). I highly doubt Mitsu would add it to their Evo if it only worked at speeds of 150, as that car isn't built to do those kind of speeds (Porsche 911 maybe but not an Evo, an no I'm not saying the Evo can't do 150, meh)

I won't even reply to the Ferrari/Porsche comment, come on now hyunelan2 do some homework before you say stuff like that.

[th003g]

i figure that the EVO is different from any other exotic in that it is a purpose built car based on a SEDAN... ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Lotus, Bugatti etc... are all designed from the bottom up in the wind tunnel....and they achieve downforce at speed in other ways... (venturi skirts, monster size inlets and slits in body, air ducts that evacuate air from certain areas of the body) Mitsubishi and Subaru were limited because they had to homologate a sedan body to race in the WRC type rallys... a E55 or M5 will not have stuff like this either becausetheyre' more sport LUX speedsters than small engine high pressure turbo racer cars....

[2GTS]

The looks outweigh any possible gain in downforce IMO. I don't care if it comes stock, I'll still point and laugh when I see one. And Hyunelan2 does have a point, either this is just rice with a good explanation or Mitsu has a crappy spoiler that needs help to work.

[josefresco]

Thanks th003g, my point exaclty.

After some digging on Google, it doesn't look like these will work for Elantras as it's a pretty custom part made to work with the shape and spoiler of an evo.

You can buy one (http://www.500whp.com/catalog/produc...oducts_id=1262) if you own an Evo but I highly doubt it would work for our cars.

"The Vortex generator was designed to help with the effects of aerodynamics on the rear of the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution. Due to the rear windshield being at such an aggressive angle, the drop off is very significant causing for airflow to dramatically change from a low pressure high velocity state to turbulent flows at high pressure. By the use of vortex generators across the trailing edge of the roofline, the velocity of airflow is increased and this allows the turbulent effect to be pushed rearwards. The vortex generator can add up to about 7lbs of downforce at crusing speeds, and up to 42lbs at 150mph+, all while reducing the effects of wind drag."

Crusing speed meaning 50-70 MPH. There's your 150 MPH hyun!

[hyunelan2]

Here's a close up for those looking


And chill out josefresco. It's called sarcasm and exaggeration, but if you want to argue the point, I'll play.

The source of the quoted information is also questionable. The site listed selling these provided that data, much like sites that promote the 'electric turbocharger' and 'tornado'. Also, every thing has another reaction... but fixing the drag on the rear of the car with these 'vortex generators' it has to add drag to the roofline. Granted, the fixing of the drag and addition of downforce on the rear of the car may overcome whatever drag is produced by the new roofline disturbances.

And I know how the exotics use aerodynamics in their develpment. What I was alluding to was the fact that I find it odd that 'vortex generators' were not first put on performance sedans of other makes. Mitsubishi rarely is on the leading edge of technology.

Again, I'm not attacking you here, unless you invented this. I just question the improvement that it would provide, in addition to thinking it looks hideous.

[josefresco]

The source I quoted is from a "sales" page so I agree that it could be exaggerating or misleading. But it does match what I've read on about a dozen other sites so far, including Edmunds and plenty of other non-biased car review sites.

If this was sold as an after market add on by some company claiming great gains I would be skeptical as well. But this is a factory part put on a very incredible car that by all means does almost everything right concerning performance. Mitsu cars are generally not very impressive, but I think their experience on the WRC track gives them just a *tad* bit of credibility with this car and their choices for performance enhancements. The gains with this mod are small, but if you look at the MR generally, small improvements are what they were shooting for, as the previous generation was a competent racer to say the least. Lots of small improvements add up to a more extreme car (just look at the changes to the new 911)

The concept of vortex generators is not new, this article shows the application in the aviation industry: http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...cs/q0009.shtml However seeing it on a car like this is new (I'm probably wrong here) and while you may think it's ugly, I don't.

I think that genuine performance parts that help a car go faster/ handle better are not "rice" or ugly by nature. If a body kit looks good but does nothing for performance or handling, I'm usually not impressed. Obviously there are limits here, if a stuffed zebra strapped to your roof gave you +10 HP I'd probably still say it was ugly but I think you get my point.

[hyunelan2]

Yes if it's an effective performance part, I wouldn't consider it 'rice' either. Which displays my skepticism about this. However, on our cars, which have completely different dynamics, and are missing an airplane wing on the trunk, this mod would probably have all the effectiveness of mounting a wet-pickle to the roof.

[josefresco]

I agree.

[BlackElantraGT]

If it wasn't tested and proven to work on the car (the Evo), I really doubt a car manufacturer would spend the extra money putting these on their car. They're trying to save every penny they can to make the most profit from these cars. It's not everybody's cup of tea, but if it works, why not? One thing I don't agree with on the newest Evo's and the MR is that they removed the water sprayer on the intercooler I believe. I thought that was nifty.

[Josh K]

i figure that the EVO is different from any other exotic...

Am I the only one who thinks it's ridiculous to even refer to a Mitsubishi Lancer (or any other fast car based on an econobox platform) as an exotic car?

Any cheap car can be made fast with enough money put into it, but that doesn't mean it's an exotic car.

To bring myself back on topic, until there are some proven windtunnel results, I have to call on this one.

[Elkane7533]

What that huge wing in the back wasn't enough?

I'm sure it works (I'm actually taking fluid mechanics right now and we're getting into drag and stuff so by the end of this semester I'll know if it does for sure... ) but I think it's an overkill.

[th003g]

And for this to be effective you have to be going how fast? Like 150mph? Personally I think they look like 8 of those ricer stick on fake XM antennas lining the roof.

If this were really good, how come Ferrari, Porsche, etc. hasn't been putting them on LeMans cars and stuff? It seriously looks rediculous.

I was responding in reference to the above post.... and fyi... a car that can perform as well as cars costing 2x as much... and is highly regarded by all... to be close to if not an exotic... case in point.... lotus.... cars used to and still are powered by "econobox" 4 cyl engines boosted to obscene outputs... yet they are considered exotics....
you can spend money to make a car fast but it takes more than money to make a car handle....thus i think my categorization as an exotic or "class buster" is more correct than not... thank you.... next time please dont take my comments out of context....