Question for the auto XD 1/4 runners [Archive] - Hyundai Elantra Forum

: Question for the auto XD 1/4 runners



ArunSenior04
07-01-2006, 01:13 AM
OK. ive been searching the NT forums, but its really useful info, as their trans are abit different than the XD1 trans.

1. Best way to launch? (Power braking, hovering gas)
2. Best way to run? (leave it in D, L23D)

Im asking the XD1 people, as the XD2 is different than mine (when in L, itll shift at redline.)

Perhaps Oddessit could chime in.

Vampyrate
07-01-2006, 01:15 AM
if you powershift (L23D) then you will overheat the tranny very quickly, and cause it to become too hot after doing that more than 2x. if you want to do that, get a tranny cooler asap. but that would be a good idea, since it gives you a bit more control over the shift points of the car to a certain extent. and if you do powershift, dont take your foot off the gas, just keep shifting so the car doesnt hiccup as much when launching.

Keyan
07-01-2006, 09:18 AM
For XD1s, leave it in D, foot hard on brake, rpms up to around 1500 (stall speed of the converter)

For XD2s, same thing but leave it in L.

mtlelantra
07-01-2006, 11:06 AM
You can load the brake for better grip so you can launch at a few higher rpms without slipping... Brake in N, and then rev the engine and your brake pedal should sink a little lower. Then you can shift into gear and rev it. But yeah, don't sit there at the tree and have it revving while you wait, or you'll mess up the torque converter quicker.

2loud2k2xd
07-01-2006, 11:45 AM
when i sprayed at the track, i left it in D. get the rpm's up to about 3000 while holding the brake pedal hard, then launch. but i also sprayed right out the whole. i didnt like the whole idea of shifting from L23D as i bounced it off the rev limiter a couple times.

RedScorp
07-01-2006, 12:43 PM
Why would you not run it from L23D? You get much more use out of the entire gear then you do if you let the transmission shift automatically...

Is there something I'm not understanding here?

WytchDctr
07-01-2006, 12:58 PM
Not all cars are faster messing with the shifter. Ive known atleast 3 diffrent cars that did better left in drive. I know just as many that are faster "manually" shifting.

RedScorp
07-01-2006, 01:08 PM
Not all cars are faster messing with the shifter. Ive known atleast 3 diffrent cars that did better left in drive. I know just as many that are faster "manually" shifting.

Interesting...I didn't know that. Now by all cars, you mean it differs from each individual car even if the same make or between different manufacturers?

WytchDctr
07-01-2006, 01:19 PM
My best friends Grand Am (gone now) = Lost .2-.3 secs in the 1/4 screwing with the shifter

Another friends Eclipse v6 did .1-.2 better in D

Then I knew a saturn that ran a tenth or so faster in D

On the other side I know someone with a carolla thats slow as dirt in D. "shift it" and it gets alot faster.

My wifes Mazda5 is faster in "manual" mode, but thats also because itll turn another 500rpms in +- then it will in D

I think it depends on how well the tcm is programed and how the trans is built. Id go buy what other owners of the same make/model have done, but still do a lil testing on your own car to see what it likes.

RedScorp
07-01-2006, 01:28 PM
Anyone in SoCal want to meet me at Irwindale Speedway then? =) They open their strip on Thursdays. My work schedule right now doesn't permit it, but hopefully soon that will change.

ArunSenior04
07-01-2006, 02:21 PM
Like I have searched on NT, and they some of those guys have said that they ran slower times shifting, than just leaving it in D. But it just seems a little faster when shifting, but most of the power is at the lower RPMS (i think), so I dunno.

OdessitPashka
07-02-2006, 12:49 PM
If your car redlines when you leave it in D, then leave the shifter alone and let the tranny do the job.

Launch like some people have said: one foot on the brake, another one on gas, rev it up till you can, then floor it and release brake.

ArunSenior04
07-08-2006, 12:31 AM
How do you do it Odessit?!?

I have hotshot headers, 2.25" cat back with stock cat and res to a straight thru borla xs, udp, cam gear (advanced 4 clicks/8 degrees,) and a 3" cai.

With just a Cai, I ran a 17.2, at Capital.

R/t: 1.26
60': 2.458
330': 7.158
1/8: 11.078
MPH: 63.07
1000: 14.427
1/4: 17.286
MPH: 78.7

Today with all those mods, I ran a 16.9 at Cecil.

R/t: .383
60': 2.610
330': 7.248
1/8: 11.037
MPH: 65.51
1000: 14.246
1/4: 16.977
MPH: 82.57


Im starting to think it may be something to do with my traction. Im at 63K miles, and Im still on my stock tires. I have maybe a 1/4" of tread on my fronts (one Kumho, and one Phaser,) and even less on the back. If you compare the two, my first one is actually beating me by ~.2 in the 60', then ~.1 in the 330'. By the 1/8, Ive pretty much caught up.

Im thinking about maybe setting the putting back to stock. And going down to Capital. This isnt making any sense.

Cypher
07-08-2006, 12:58 AM
your sprocket is ADVANCED REECE!!!!

ArunSenior04
07-08-2006, 01:59 AM
fixed. :)

The thing is, I know the power is there. (Comparing the two slips) By the 1/8, I was able to make up the .2 I lost in the 60'. At 1/8, we are pretty much even. By the end of the 1/4, Im up by .3 seconds. So in total, I went from being .2 under, to .3 ahead.

Now to figure out why Im doing worst in the 60.

CTele02
07-08-2006, 02:20 AM
I think your problem is the fact you have an autotragic like me... with all those mods you should be beating 16 secs with a manual...

Natural Aspired on an XD ESPECIALLY an autotragic is not cost effective... (thanks for being another example of why) F/I is the only way to go :) Perhaps the only way youll get lower numbers is with nitrous, thus all your mods would be helpful then.

Doing worse in the "low end" means you must of lost some low end torque in exchange for high end Hp, the only way youd know is if you did a before and after dyno.

You gotta remember, small engines with N/A = not much gains unless you have some crazy tuning or timing system (Vtec)... this is why the EVO and the STi and the GolfR32 all come turbo with their comparable sized engines.

ricerrx7
07-08-2006, 08:11 AM
R32 didn't have a turbo. It had a 3.2 liter V6.

RedScorp
07-08-2006, 09:41 AM
If your car redlines when you leave it in D, then leave the shifter alone and let the tranny do the job.

I'm not aware any car left in D capable of redlining. The whole purpose of the tranny in D throughout the gears is that it shifts at a safe and fairly economical point. If the car shifted at redline at every gear when left in D, there wouldn't be a need for much else... :confused:

evan938
07-08-2006, 10:03 AM
any auto ive been in will go damn near redline if you run it at WOT. if you are easier on the gas it will shift earlier.

RedScorp
07-08-2006, 10:09 AM
any auto ive been in will go damn near redline if you run it at WOT. if you are easier on the gas it will shift earlier.

I guess I don't grab throttle a lot when it's in D. :rolleyes: I almost always do it shifting to get the maximum runout on every gear. Ya learn something new everyday I guess. :)

ArunSenior04
07-08-2006, 10:43 AM
Ima set the sprocket to 0, and run again. I think Ill sacifice the advanced for a better run.

evan938
07-08-2006, 11:02 AM
I heard jim almost got me last night...:)

ArunSenior04
07-08-2006, 11:05 AM
LOL yea. He had a 15.3.

cecil is weird tho
on one of his slips, it said he had a 1.4 60

evan938
07-08-2006, 11:06 AM
yeah thats what he said when i talked to him after he ran both times...i was like, ...jim...we have a guy running 10.90s in a formula firebird here in town that only pulls 1.7-1.8 60's

still good runs though.

ArunSenior04
07-08-2006, 11:25 AM
Doing worse in the "low end" means you must of lost some low end torque in exchange for high end Hp, the only way youd know is if you did a before and after dyno..

Honestly, I think its because of this cam gear, that I lost low end. Ill try to get it put back to stock, which will put me pretty much even (in mods, other than my udp) with Odessit auto's 16.5 hopefully.

Cypher
07-08-2006, 11:46 AM
I heard jim almost got me last night...:)

yeah .003 off from ya. oh well. i know i could've had ya cause i bogged it off the line on the good run. i know i could've dropped another tenth off had i stayed but oh well. i really don't care.


I had a feeling the car had more power stored away somewhere.. so I decided to tune the cam sprocket.
I bought this sprocket on ebay for $70 new and i had fooled around with it and never really had good results... So it was time to do something about it...

I strapped the car down and gave it a baseline run... the diff from this dyno & the previous one was only 1 whp which is a perfectly acceptable variation.. green line : 131.9 whp & 126.2 ft.lb..

After the baseline, i advaned the cam sprocket by 2 notches on the gear which = 4 degrees of crank advance...

This yielded 2 whp gain & 2 ft.lb wtq gain ...

So i went back and advaned it 2 more notches, for a total of 8 degrees of crank advance...

The results were good, lost .2 hp but gained 2 more ft.lb of wheel torque so i stopped messing with it and locked it down..

the results ? A total of 2 hp gain and 4 ft.lb wtq !!! (133.2 hp & 130.6 ft.lb wtq BLUE LINE )

^ that quote is from fords dyno thread. 4 lbs tq increase with sprocket advanced.

evan938
07-08-2006, 11:53 AM
is was a 15.300? damn...i wish you luck...im not gonna be pissed if you beat me.

and next weekend, when we do nick and your header/exhaust swap, you want to do the cam sprocket then? i should have the tools we need to do it, unless there is some oddball tool we need

Cypher
07-08-2006, 11:55 AM
is was a 15.300? damn...i wish you luck...im not gonna be pissed if you beat me.

and next weekend, when we do nick and your header/exhaust swap, you want to do the cam sprocket then? i should have the tools we need to do it, unless there is some oddball tool we need

yup. 15.300. ain't that a *****? i'll possibly run ya next week... i dunno if i feel like it tho. i won't have the UDP or sprocket on then. all we need is a 17mm socket and a 10mm to help adjust it.

evan938
07-08-2006, 11:58 AM
yeah, i got all that.

nick said he is for sure going to the track to get baseline numbers, see what kind of times hes pulling...only thing is he doesnt want to run his 17s caus theyre so heavy, but his stockers have no tread...

if we werent both going, id give him my rear wheels to use, but that would look dumb for both of us

Cypher
07-08-2006, 12:01 PM
well... if you wanna wait til i get to your place... he can borrow my wheels

CTele02
07-08-2006, 01:32 PM
But still ford has like you a 5-speed... thus the tranny acts differently than a 4-speed automatic with the torque converter, the only way around it is to get a high stall torque converter.

OdessitPashka
07-08-2006, 06:36 PM
How do you do it Odessit?!?

I have hotshot headers, 2.25" cat back with stock cat and res to a straight thru borla xs, udp, cam gear (advanced 4 clicks/8 degrees,) and a 3" cai.

With just a Cai, I ran a 17.2, at Capital.

R/t: 1.26
60': 2.458
330': 7.158
1/8: 11.078
MPH: 63.07
1000: 14.427
1/4: 17.286
MPH: 78.7

Today with all those mods, I ran a 16.9 at Cecil.

R/t: .383
60': 2.610
330': 7.248
1/8: 11.037
MPH: 65.51
1000: 14.246
1/4: 16.977
MPH: 82.57


I highly doubt you're having problems with traction with auto XD, so I think the problem is in your launch.

When you power brake, you can't hold brake and gas for too long. Tranny will start overheating and your launch will be very crappy. I think that's what happened.


I'm not aware any car left in D capable of redlining. The whole purpose of the tranny in D throughout the gears is that it shifts at a safe and fairly economical point. If the car shifted at redline at every gear when left in D, there wouldn't be a need for much else...

When you go WOT, most of the cars with auto trannies will go to red line.



I heard jim almost got me last night...

Still want to see a normal time slip with your car number and that 15.27 run. It's been over a month since you said you were gonna go to a strip...

evan938
07-08-2006, 08:34 PM
you know, you still sit there and doubt me, yet jim runs a 15.300 with a 2.4 60'...i ran almost the exact same time with a 2.26x 60'. doubt all you want. you know why i havent been concerned about getting out? its been 80 degrees at night every night...when i went out to the track it was ~40 degrees....you know as well as i know theres no way in hell my car is going to react the same way with 80 degree temps.

Cypher
07-09-2006, 09:27 AM
evan i'm halfway tempted to keep everything on my car until next weekend to run with ya... we can pull the cam sprocket and UDP off at your house can't we? that way i can keep everything on?

evan938
07-09-2006, 12:19 PM
the UDP probably not...my compressor is a ****ty 2 gallon, and it wont break lug nuts off, let alone produce enough torque to get the UDP on/off

are you gonna have the clutch out when you come out next week or no? i had a buddy i havent talked to in a few months call me and let me know hes working at passen motorsports now (speed shop) and labor for me is next to nothing, so that clutch will be going in soon after i get it

OdessitPashka
07-09-2006, 11:21 PM
you know, you still sit there and doubt me, yet jim runs a 15.300 with a 2.4 60'...i ran almost the exact same time with a 2.26x 60'. doubt all you want. you know why i havent been concerned about getting out? its been 80 degrees at night every night...when i went out to the track it was ~40 degrees....you know as well as i know theres no way in hell my car is going to react the same way with 80 degree temps.

I got my reasons Evan, but I just want to see you do it again and there will be no more doubts. I do agree that it's a bit hot to get everything out of the car now. My Z was running .1 second and 1mph slower on Friday because of the heat.

evan938
07-09-2006, 11:33 PM
well to get everything out of my car its going to probably be a couple more months...im going out friday, but i doubt im going to be able to beat a 15.6-15.7

Cypher
07-10-2006, 06:51 AM
the clutch will not be out by this weekend. i haven't had time with work and everything. i still gotta get john's stocker from him. then swap then i'll send it out to you right away. i'm going to shoot to do it next weekend. i forgot that for the UDP we need the socket size for the crank pulley bolt to turn the motor to TDC but i'm sure you have that.

evan938
07-10-2006, 11:15 AM
we didnt set anything to TDC...as long as the tab is lined up on the pulley its fine...unless youre talking about the cam gear...then yes

Cypher
07-10-2006, 11:59 AM
yes. referring to cam gear

ArunSenior04
03-04-2007, 01:49 PM
I should have read this thread again before I went to Capital today. Lol I totally forgot about being careful to not power brake too long, or face a bogged start, because thats what happened once again. Damnit. Lol.

Cecil County Slip (same mods as today; 4clicks advanced)
R/t: .383
60': 2.610
330': 7.248 (60-330: 4.638 sec)
1/8: 11.037 (330-1/8: 3.789 sec)
MPH: 65.51
1000: 14.246 (1/8-1000: 3.209 sec)
1/4: 16.977 (1000-1/4: 2.731 sec)
MPH: 82.57

Practically the same mods. Wheels 3lbs lighter.
Today's Runs (best 2 of 3)
2nd Best
r/t .948
60' 2.651
330 7.209 (60-330: 4.558 sec)
1/8 10.988 (330-1/8: 3.779 sec)
MPH 65.5
1000 14.229 (1/8-1000: 3.241 sec)
1/4 17.024 (1000-1/4: 2.795 sec)
MPH 80.54

Best
R/t .916
60' 2.53
330 7.111 (60-330: 4.57 sec)
1/8 10.915 (330 - 1/8: 3.804 sec)
MPH 65.29
1000 14.169 (1/8 - 1000: 3.254 sec)
1/4 16.974 (1000 - 1/4: 2.805 sec)
MPH 80.14

Original Run (Auto XD w/ Cai)
R/t: 1.26
60': 2.458
330': 7.158 (60-330: 4.700 sec)
1/8: 11.078 (330-1/8: 3.920 sec)
MPH: 63.07
1000: 14.427 (1/8-1000: 3.349 sec)
1/4: 17.286 (1000 - 1/4: 2.859 sec)
MPH: 78.7

Differences between Runs
Original TodayBest
60-330: 4.700 - 4.570 = .130
330-1/8: 3.920 - 3.804 = .116
1/8-1000: 3.349 - 3.254 = .095
1000-1/4: 2.859 - 2.805 = .054
Total Difference: = .395 (My car accelerates about .4 faster, from the 60-1/4, then my first original run; Note: advancing cam gear may increase this)

Today's Differences
2nd Best
60-330: 4.558 - 4.570 = -.012
330-1/8: 3.779 - 3.804 = -.025
1/8-1000: 3.241 - 3.254 = -.013
1000-1/4: 2.795 - 2.805= -.010
Total Difference: -.06 (difference between 60' to 1/4 on today's runs)

Difference between Today and Cecil (same mods; advanced 8 deg at Cecil; 20-30 deg warmer at Cecil)
TodayBest Cecil
60-330: 4.570 - 4.638 = -.068
330-1/8: 3.804 - 3.789 = .015
1/8-1000: 3.254 - 3.209 = .045
1000-1/4: 2.805 - 2.731= .074
Total Difference: .066 (Difference between today and Cecil; faster acceleration at Cecil despite much hotter weather (july); NOTE: colder weather would increase difference)

I dunno if anyone can see what Im getting at. Basically, even though the time slips are near identical, my car accelerated faster than my original time. (nearly .1 from point to point) It also shows that from all my mods, I gained more low end, than high end (notice the difference between todays run, and my original run.) It also shows that acceleration was better with the cam sprocket advanced (cecil county), than set at stock (today.)

I need to work on my launch.

WytchDctr
03-04-2007, 02:56 PM
what was the difference in air temps etc from the first set of runs? My accent was everywhere from 16.8-17.2 depending on the weather. Nothing changing between the runs.

ArunSenior04
03-04-2007, 03:05 PM
It was around the same temps for all 3 runs.

The original run is basically my car 1 yr ago with just a cai.

For the two runs done today, there was basically no difference from the 60' to the 1/4. Acceleration was pretty much the same. Its me effing up the launch. Lol.