Guaging strut bar interest. [Archive] - Hyundai Elantra Forum

: Guaging strut bar interest.



AUTOBOT
07-25-2004, 08:37 PM
Since MCM doesn't want to make them, I have decided to to go ahead and do it if the interest is there. I don't realy have the much cash to spare to buy the tools and supplies but I don't believe in asking people for money until I am ready to ship product.

So, here is the deal. I will make both front and rear strut bars for the XD just like the ones MCM made for the front on his car.

https://www.elantraxd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1335

The difference is it won't be painted but you can paint whatever color you want or leave it raw. I will make these out of galvanized electrical conduit and if you read down, you will see how it is made so there are no misconceptions of what you get.

Now, I know it may not be the greatest strut bar in the world but MCM liked his and so did those who bought them. the other advantage is they will be cheap.

For those who post now and are interested, the price will be $20 for 1 or both front and rear for $30. This will include shipping and handling. The prices may remain the same after the initial orders, but depending on shipping price, they may have to go up. I will not know for sure until after I ship the first ones out but the prices will definately not go down.

Now, I don't want to know if you are interested. I want know that if I make these and have them ready to ship by the end of this month that you WILL be able to send the money before the end of August.

So, if you want them, please post if you want just the front, just the rear, or both. In addition, if you want just the front or rear and somebody else near you wants the same and you order it together, I will charge it as $30.

(Moderators, sory if this is the wrong forum but since it realy isn't a group buy, I posted it here.)

vabeach_03
07-25-2004, 09:12 PM
i don't think it is a strong as i would like it. if you could make it so that it bolts to all 3 studs i would be very interested. my SR front bar isn't that strong.

Leviathant
07-25-2004, 11:28 PM
I will pre-order, for both, if you decide to go ahead. You know, to help offset the initial cost and all that.

AUTOBOT
07-25-2004, 11:32 PM
The idea isn't to make a stronger bar, it is to make an inexpensive bar. I don't have welding equipment to weld pieces or a cnc macine to have them made. So, if you want welded perfect bars, buy the $130 front bar and $110 rear bar from Mussa.
http://www.motorimpact.com/mxsa/01101pg.index/cPath.23_37_58_62/index.htm
Hell, even the RRM bars are not much different from the ones I am makeing but yoy will pay $90 ea for them. http://www.roadracemotorsports.com/

I am making thes for people who want a little better handling but doesn't want to spend $180 to $250 for a pair of strut bars. I already said there are better ones available, but there aren't cheaper ones.

So, if you want this design for this price, post. If you don't want it, then buy The other ones that are available and don't post.

Again, I am ONLY trying to find out who wants these bars, just like MCM made them. ONLY post if you want to buy them because it realy isn't a discussion. I ONLY want to know if enough people are interested in them so that it will cover the cost of the tools. Trust me, I am not makeing much at all on these bars. I can get 2 bars out of a piece of 10' conduit that costs close to $10 then when you ad probably another $10 for shipping and a few bucks for packing materials, my cost to make these and ship them costs $20-$25 to get a pair to you. The tools will cost about $75 to buy which means I have to get between 7-15 people interested.

I am looking for atleast 10 people to commit to buying and having them paid for by the end of August. I will not ask for money until they are ready to ship.

2004ElantraGLS
07-25-2004, 11:37 PM
Count me in for the front and rear bars. But I have the 2004 Elantra. Not sure if they're different from the 01-03. But I'll definately have the money ready for you by the end of August.

Axel

jbird88
07-26-2004, 01:00 AM
Ill take one of the frunt bars, PM me with any specific details please...

jameswing
07-26-2004, 02:26 AM
I'll take one of each

Strife
07-26-2004, 03:45 AM
I'd like a front and a rear

Rob
07-26-2004, 03:36 PM
I'd like both front and rear also.

sed
07-26-2004, 05:36 PM
auto, pm me if you need any tips on how to make it go to all three bolts. I am working on my own design right now and I could send you a template if you like. You wouldn't have to weld it with a little modification, it could all be bolt on.

let me know ok?

shawn :)

WytchDctr
07-26-2004, 07:38 PM
Ill get one if you can have it to me before I go...

AUTOBOT
07-27-2004, 08:34 PM
I would like to see a couple more people interested before i buy the tools to do this but may start with what is available.

sed, you are welcome to send stuff to my private mailbox but I honestly don't think I will change the design. It is sinple and easy the way it is and that is the way i want to keep it. I am not trying to make any real money from it, just justify the expense of buying a tool I would never buy otherwise.

Leviathant
07-28-2004, 08:56 AM
Come on, where are my bottom-feeding Hyundai cheapskate peers? $30 for a pair of shipped strut bars, how can you go wrong? :)

felixr
07-28-2004, 09:28 AM
im still waiting to see how this is made. . . auto, you said if we read below we will see how its made. . . is it just me or did you forget to include that info . . . dont worry im not thinking of opening a strut bar business any time soon . . lol i am just incredibly curious hgow you can get that bar to look like that out and make it work without any welding . . .thanks

by the way, sed . . can you clue me in on your design?

jameswing
07-28-2004, 11:39 AM
an Electrial conduit bender he explaned it in the other thread. I've seen it done, it's pretty easy.

https://www.elantraxd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1335

AUTOBOT
07-28-2004, 06:56 PM
Yup, it is prety simple and in all honesty, I realy don't care to do it since i know it won't be worth the few bucks made here or there. Even after all the stuf is paid for to make them, it will barely be profitable after shipping. But since I do have an understanding of bending conduit and people seemed to have wanted them in MCM's thread, I am willing to to do it as a sevice. That is why I don't realy care if people know how they are made or if they want to go out and buy all the tools to make them. If you add up the total tool tool cost, if you don't have the drill and other stuff, could end up costing up to a couple hundred dollars.

You need a bench vice and not some small cheap one.
You need a conduit bender
you need a drill
Drill bits (2 sizes) and you will need to periodically replace these.
a means to cut the pipe (a hack saw will do if you want to work a little harder)
A means to round the edges off after it is made (not realy necessary, but nice)

Those toools if you don't have them all could cost up to and even over $200
The conduit is about $7 for a 10' piece and only 2 bars can be made from each piece. Now, it sounds like I will make $23 for shipping 2 bars but now you have to include the packing and shipping costs which could be easily $13 (probably more) which leaves me profiting $10. Well, that sounds great, but considering I will have to buy about $100 in tools I have no need for and then if the demand becomes greater, another $100 worth of tools since the ones I have I can use won't realy work for mas producing, the first 20-40 bars I make will just dig me out of the hole, it hardly seems worth it.

But, if there is a genuine interst, I will probably do it.

alexnkylie
07-29-2004, 12:15 AM
I would be interested in a rear strut bar but maybe even both

Bnystrom
07-29-2004, 09:32 AM
For a strut bar to have any effect, it must be as rigid as possible. Electrical conduit is designed to be flexible and bendable, not rigid. Especially with the amount of bend in the bar shown in the photo, it's going to flex like crazy. Basically, what you're going to end up with is a cheap placebo, not a strut bar. If all you want is the look, fine, but if you expect a performance difference, you're kidding yourself.

Steve
07-29-2004, 09:38 AM
Carbonman wrapped one of MCM's strut bars in carbon fibre, it was very unbendable then.

jameswing
07-29-2004, 12:12 PM
For a strut bar to have any effect, it must be as rigid as possible. Electrical conduit is designed to be flexible and bendable, not rigid. Especially with the amount of bend in the bar shown in the photo, it's going to flex like crazy. Basically, what you're going to end up with is a cheap placebo, not a strut bar. If all you want is the look, fine, but if you expect a performance difference, you're kidding yourself.


Thats true it you use thinwall or emt, but if you use Rigid Conduit it is pretty sturdy.

carbonman
07-29-2004, 01:20 PM
Carbonman wrapped one of MCM's strut bars in carbon fibre, it was very unbendable then.

true that!!

EL Conduit is about as rigid as a dish pad, even with the CF wrap it still had a little bit of lateral flex.

vabeach_03
07-29-2004, 02:34 PM
carbon you still doing CF wraps? if so i might be sending you 2 bars

AUTOBOT
07-29-2004, 06:48 PM
For a strut bar to have any effect, it must be as rigid as possible. Electrical conduit is designed to be flexible and bendable, not rigid. Especially with the amount of bend in the bar shown in the photo, it's going to flex like crazy. Basically, what you're going to end up with is a cheap placebo, not a strut bar. If all you want is the look, fine, but if you expect a performance difference, you're kidding yourself.

You are right to some degree.
I mean, I don't realy feel a need to defend them, because I honestly do not want to make them and I even said they are not the best bar you could buy, just the cheapest. However, I will guarantee you the other available bars on the market will flex also but probably not as much.

But to say they will do no good is misleading. That is like saying everything in your car that deals with suspension already is no good because it already flexes. I have been honest from the start, there are beter bars available and everyone is more then welcome to buy them for $180-$250 for the pair. In fact, I would actually prefer they do because I would rather see people with nice stuff.

vabeach_03
07-29-2004, 07:52 PM
However, I will guarantee you the other available bars on the market will flex also but probably not as much.


my SR front bar flexes WAY too much.

Bnystrom
07-30-2004, 11:19 AM
You are right to some degree.
I mean, I don't realy feel a need to defend them, because I honestly do not want to make them and I even said they are not the best bar you could buy, just the cheapest. However, I will guarantee you the other available bars on the market will flex also but probably not as much.
Well, that's pretty much my point. Frankly, I question whether strut bars do much on most cars anyway, especially for anything less than autocross or track racing. I find it interesting that people put so much money and energy into strut bars when they have the least effect of any suspension mod. It strikes me that that they should be the LAST mod one does to their suspension, after sway bars, springs and struts. I have to think that their popularity is largely due to the fact that they're readily visible and therefore have a higher "bling factor" than other suspension mods.



But to say they will do no good is misleading. That is like saying everything in your car that deals with suspension already is no good because it already flexes.
Well, that's partially true. However, if they don't add significant stiffness, there really isn't much point to them.



I have been honest from the start, there are beter bars available and everyone is more then welcome to buy them for $180-$250 for the pair. In fact, I would actually prefer they do because I would rather see people with nice stuff.
Please don't misunderstand, I'm not questioning anyone's honesty or intentions. I was simply pointing out that this particular mod may be more cosmetic than functional in the hope of reducing the likelihood of someone being disappointed. If nothing else, the price is right, so even if it turns out that it does nothing but look good, there's no harm done.

AUTOBOT
07-30-2004, 07:59 PM
True, they may not be the best suspension mod, but they can do a lot of good depending on the car. The King bars on the Tib that were sold by SR many years ago made a very noticable difference and they are the only suspension mod. Also, they are easily installed and have 0 effect on the warranty so I think that is another reason many people get them.


Well, that's partially true. However, if they don't add significant stiffness, there really isn't much point to them.

Now, come on. It is a building process. Sure, you can't slap a strut bar on the Elantra and expect it to handle like a 350z. But to say "they don't do much good therefore they are pointless" is a bit rediculous. I mean, even if you take the most expensive ones out there wich are $125 ea and buy the pair you are paying $250. Name one mod that costs $250 that is going to make a huge change on our cars.

At this point, it doesn't realy matter anyways though, because I doubt I will make them since there isn't enough interest in them to even make it worth my time. But, I will agree they won't make a huge difference, but a quality bar does make a noticably nice difference and is well worth the money spent.

SWortham
07-30-2004, 09:19 PM
But, I will agree they won't make a huge difference, but a quality bar does make a noticably nice difference and is well worth the money spent.

Agreed. If you're a handling freak like me then good performance tires, the Tib rear sway bar, and a good front strut bar are all necessities.

However, if you install a strut bar that isn't strong enough, then you'll be just like a lot of other people who claim that they can only feel an improvement at 90% of the cars handling ability. Whereas something like the RRM strut bar will make a much more obvious improvement even with small steering corrections. The RRM bar is made of a .085" thick steel piping at .89" diameter (I put my dial caliper to use :) ).

jameswing
07-30-2004, 11:11 PM
Thaks for the size info. I've been meenign to ask that.

Bnystrom
08-01-2004, 10:56 AM
True, they may not be the best suspension mod, but they can do a lot of good depending on the car. The King bars on the Tib that were sold by SR many years ago made a very noticable difference and they are the only suspension mod. Also, they are easily installed and have 0 effect on the warranty so I think that is another reason many people get them.
Fine, but we're not talking about the Tib.



Now, come on. It is a building process. Sure, you can't slap a strut bar on the Elantra and expect it to handle like a 350z. But to say "they don't do much good therefore they are pointless" is a bit rediculous. I mean, even if you take the most expensive ones out there wich are $125 ea and buy the pair you are paying $250. Name one mod that costs $250 that is going to make a huge change on our cars.
The Tib rear sway bar costs half that and makes a HUGE difference. Springs are available for less than that and make a HUGE difference. As with many things, the more you modify, the smaller the return for the dollars invested. I would say that compared to sway bars, springs, struts/coilovers and wheel/tire packages, struts bars have the lowest ROI by far. That's why they should be the last thing you add, after you've done all the mods that make a real difference.

But hey, it's your money. Spend it however you like.

AUTOBOT
08-01-2004, 11:37 AM
Your right, we are not talking about the Tib, but we are talking about a car with the same overall chasis design.

I will agree, there are some better suspension mods to get before strut bars. I never argued that, but they do make a noticable difference and are well worth the money. I don't know why suddenly people have come to this impression they they don't do anything at all or very little, but to be quite blunt, they are wrong. In addition to that, you are making an extremely generalized statement even for XD's considering there are two XD body styles and 5dr drivers could benifit largely from a rear bar.

But thanks for your permission on spending my money how I like because I do. I love handling and that is why I spent the money on Teins. My next purchase will probably be a rear sway bar, then strut bars. I already have a set of grippy tires for street and a seperate set for autocross. So yeah, I do agree that there are better first suspension mods for SOME people but for others, strut bars are the best choice since they may not want to go all out. You have to realize some people may not want to lower their car, or can't afford to lower it. Sure, springs may be as cheap, but I bet less then half the people here actually know how to install them themselves.

2004ElantraGLS
08-01-2004, 01:51 PM
Ok, I could have sworn that AUTOBOT asked at the beginning of this thread that he only wants responses from people who are interested in buying these strut bars?!?! Why did this turn into a 30 Post arguement??

I'm still interested in these bars, because I believe that 2 of these "cheap POSs" will be better than none at all. And I can't argue with the price!!!! It's a shame that there isn't enough interest to make AUTOBOT start production. I was looking forward to installing them. Oh well....

Axel

AUTOBOT
08-01-2004, 07:02 PM
Ok, I could have sworn that AUTOBOT asked at the beginning of this thread that he only wants responses from people who are interested in buying these strut bars?!?! Why did this turn into a 30 Post arguement??



Because there is always somebody that has to point out the obvious and share there opinion on how low quality they think something is even though everyone already knows and the original poster stated it in the opening post.

But you are right, these low quality bars would be better then nothing ar all and a hell of a lot more affordable then other available bars. If somebody else wants to make it, then go for it.