[MD/UD] Dealer is trying to screw me over... [Archive] - Hyundai Elantra Forum

: [MD/UD] Dealer is trying to screw me over...



laurenestelle
02-08-2011, 02:09 AM
Hi everyone,

I'm kind of looking for some advice. Here is what's going on. On Jan. 31st, I signed a bill of sale for a 2011 Elantra Limited with Navigation on a deal that I was quite happy with. The salesman had offered me about 2k under MSRP, with financing for 60 months at the 2.99% rate. I went in with my parents and my boyfriend, and we made sure to make it clear with the salesman that the deal we were signing off encompassed everything, including interest for the 60 month period. In order to honor this, the salesman said that he would write down the price, with the words "all in" to signify that interest for the 60 month term was also included. I thought this was strange but being new to the car buying experience, didn't think too much of it.

Fast forward to today. I get an email from the finance manager saying that I should come in to sign the new bill of sale (I had since decided I wanted a different colour) and that the price was $150 more plus tax for the new colour. When I asked her what the price of the vehicle was without interest, for my records, she replied saying that it was impossible that the price stated on the bill of sale included interest to begin with.

Basically, either the sales manager, the salesman, or both, are trying to screw me for 2k. The price that we agreed on (which my family assumed included interest) is exactly MSRP if interest is not included. This is ridiculous, however, since the salesman had originally offered me 1k below MSRP in writing. Why would we denied this offer only to have settled on a deal that was higher in price?

Anyway, after a very stressful day, the sales manager and the salesman have agreed to meet with me and my parents (my boyfriend is not welcome to come since he "yelled" at the sales manager over the phone, again ridiculous) tomorrow to go over everything. I'm so upset with this whole ordeal, but the truth is I don't know what my options are. As soon as we agreed on the price on the 31st, my parents deposited $2,500. Now I'm worried that we won't be able to get this back....

Also, I did a quick google search on the dealership, and I found this review posted only yesterday "I had the worst experience at this dealership. I almost filed a police complaint against them but later decided to just let it go. Worst customer service ever experienced." I guess they try and pull stunts like this all the time.

Does anyone have any advice on what I should do when I go in to see them tomorrow?

ricerrx7
02-08-2011, 02:31 AM
It's hard to gather from your description, but it sounds like the problem is on your end, and not on the dealership's. The price that is quoted is what the finance company pays to the dealership to buy the car. You then pay interest as you make the payments, in order to make it worth it for the finance company to lend you the money. The price quoted will never "include" interest.

laurenestelle
02-08-2011, 02:51 AM
It's hard to gather from your description, but it sounds like the problem is on your end, and not on the dealership's. The price that is quoted is what the finance company pays to the dealership to buy the car. You then pay interest as you make the payments, in order to make it worth it for the finance company to lend you the money. The price quoted will never "include" interest.

Thanks for your reply.

I agree, a price would normally not include interest. However, I made it very clear to my salesman that I was unhappy with the interest rate altogether, as the Mazda3 I was considering had 0% financing. The salesman then responded by asking me what I wanted my monthly payments to be for the 60 month term (I also made it clear that I did NOT want anything owed after the 60 months) and he said he would work out a price from that.

I understand that I made a mistake by not having the salesman write on the bill of sale the monthly payments, but I feel I have been completely misled. I would never settle for the MSRP of a car. I guess all I can do is plead my case tomorrow.

ricerrx7
02-08-2011, 10:22 AM
Hyundai is not offering a 0% loan, and they are not going to take a several thousand dollar loss so that you can have the car cost under msrp after you pay it off. It's just not how it works. Rather than sit there for three hours trying to explain it to you, he just tried to make you feel comfortable, because you are getting a really good deal. You're getting $2k under MSRP on a car that hasn't been out for that long and is in high demand, and at only 2.99%. Be happy with that deal. You're not "settling" for the MSRP by paying interest. "Settling" for the MSRP would be paying MSRP, then paying interest on top of it.
Don't take this the wrong way, but it just sounds like you got bad information from other people, then are mad at the dealership because they can't give you an impossible deal.

hyunelan2
02-08-2011, 11:09 AM
What a 0% loan means is "we can't sell this car, people don't want it, if we basically pay the cost of financing will you please buy it?" Or "we made more of these than we can sell, so we're trying to incentivize this to get people to take them."

2.99% for 60 is a good term. With inflation averaging 1.5%, your real interest rate is 1.49%. Not as good a a 0%, but again, 0% is on cars because people don't want to buy them.


I don't understand why or how the dealer would put the total amortized interest amount in the bottom line of the sale, that makes no sense. The dealer doesn't care anything about how much interest you pay, that's between you and the lender. They get the bottom-line amount from the lender, and it's between you and the lender to work out paying it back - the dealer is done and out of the loop at that point. Including interest on the bottom-line would only be a convenience to you in knowing what you will pay back (similar to how it is stated on real estate titles), but does not affect what you [your lender] is going to pay the dealer.


I'm confused by your wording a bit {do you have real numbers}, but if you're paying exactly MSRP for the car -with taxes- that's possibly a good deal, considering taxes are about $2K on a new car purchase.

mtlelantra
02-08-2011, 12:29 PM
The salesman then responded by asking me what I wanted my monthly payments to be for the 60 month term (I also made it clear that I did NOT want anything owed after the 60 months) and he said he would work out a price from that.

That's your 1st mistake, and how they get you. They get you talking about a monthly payment (which may or may not include interest and taxes) instead of working out a real dollar figure for the car. This is the 1st thing they teach car salespeople, and the 1st thing buyers are told to avoid.

Also, 3% interest isn't half bad on a brand new in-demand model, depending on your credit score. Dealer can't change financing terms- you can try to work something out with the financing company (does Hyundai have their own finance company in the US? Back in 04, Hyundai Canada went through a 3rd party bank big bank for financing, even the 0% I got). What you work out with the dealer is price + taxes + non-interest fees.

Out of curiosity why didn't you sign right away? did they have to run a credit check or something, cuz that easily changes everything!

hyunelan2
02-08-2011, 12:34 PM
Hyundai Motor Finance Corporation is Hyundai's financier in the U.S., but dealers don't always use them.

My Elantra was financed through HMFC, my Santa Fe was not. I financed both through the dealer, but at the time I bought the S.F., a local bank was able to give better rates than HMFC.

laurenestelle
02-08-2011, 01:55 PM
Iíll try and clear some things up.


I did not expect that Hyundai would give me the 0% rate. I spoke to a few dealerships, and they all let me know that it was Hyundai Canadaís decision about the rate, not theirs. I simply mentioned to them the 0% financing Mazda was having, because I wanted them to understand that I could buy that car (a GT, mind you) for cheaper because the finance rate was lower.

Yes, originally I was getting a great deal. However, now that I understand that interest was never calculated in, the deal he is offering is MSRP. By this I mean if you go to the Hyundai Canada website, enter in everything I want, and get a price summary including taxes and fees, that is the exact price they are now offering me. Other dealerships also offered me this deal, but I was under the impression that the this particular dealership was offering a better deal because they had ďalready added the interest inĒ. The salesman said this to both me and my parents multiple times during our negotiation.

As of right now, if we choose to settle with the deal, it is MSRP and then paying interest on top of that. This would make the overall cost of the car over 30k. This is not a good deal at all, considering altogether Iíve spent 4+ hours negotiating price.

Now that Iíve learned from the experience, I understand how the negotiations should have went a lot better. However, the salesman we spoke to lied to us multiple times. After speaking to the sales manager, he let us know that the salesman never told him that this was a finance deal. According to the bill of sale, it was done as a cash deal. This makes absolutely no sense, as the first time I spoke with the salesman, I told him I would be financing the vehicle.

We did sign right away, and also put $2,500 down that night. However, I was not aware of how much information should have been on the bill of sale. They ran a credit check the next day, everything went through perfectly as my parents co-signed for the vehicle.


I have one more question. On Feb. 1st, the interest rate went up from 2.99% to 3.79%. I was under the impression that because we signed a bill of sale on Jan. 31st and the finance manager submitted a credit application that day, we were locked in at the 2.99%. Is this correct?

hyunelan2
02-08-2011, 02:05 PM
I can't tell you if you are locked in or not, since you said significant portions of the contract are missing. The contract should say the price, method of payment, and interest rate and term for financing. If one of those are wrong and you have to draw up a new contract, it's possible for them to throw out the 2.99%. However, if they throw out the old contract, they should also return the $2,500 earnest money, as that was part of the contract that they are voiding.

laurenestelle
02-08-2011, 02:09 PM
I can't tell you if you are locked in or not, since you said significant portions of the contract are missing. The contract should say the price, method of payment, and interest rate and term for financing. If one of those are wrong and you have to draw up a new contract, it's possible for them to throw out the 2.99%. However, if they throw out the old contract, they should also return the $2,500 earnest money, as that was part of the contract that they are voiding.

Well, I can at least say the next time I buy a vehicle I will know exactly what is needed on the contract. Your comment makes sense. I guess I may have to simply walk away from the deal altogether.

mtlelantra
02-08-2011, 07:12 PM
didn't realize you were in Canada... Hyundai used BMO to finance when I purchased in 04... not that it matters here, but just for what it's worth...

Anyways, I've never completed a car sale without having the salesperson get an okay from the sales manager before anything was signed and any money changed hands. I've done this for 2 finance purchases, and 2 leases, and all four times every offer I made the salesperson had to have their little chat with the manager. So you definitely got bamboozled if you thought you had it signed sealed delivered by just the salesman.

To tell you the truth, I've never run across a salesman that has ever offered anything below MSRP (unless there's a factory rebate). They offer it up to you at MSRP and it's up to you to negotiate a price for less than MSRP. You also said in your original post that they offered 2k below, and then changed to 1k below. Was it an official Hyundai sales bill? When I bought, EVERYTHING was itemized on the bill. The negotiated base price, negotiated PDP and delivery fees, tire tax, AC tax, sales tax. When the dealer had the desired spec car, or could locate the car, the VIN was entered. If they were looking for a certain color, that color was written down in the bill of sale so that if they couldn't find the color I wanted, I could get my deposit back.

The salesperson never took care of financing, even with special financing offers. They told you if special offers existed, but those were always dependent on speaking to the finance manager to see if you qualified. You could include on the bill of sale that the purchase was conditional to you getting the financing you wanted.

So yeah, I have no idea what you went in for, but does not sound like any buying experience I've ever had.

You should post a copy of that thing the salesperson signed (you can blank out personal details)- I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in seeing what really went down...

laurenestelle
02-09-2011, 06:48 PM
Just a little update on what went down.

So our meeting with the manager went really well. He was far more understanding than some of the other staff there were, and he understood what happened. Basically, the salesman that I dealt with is new, and didn't understand (or so he says...) how to convert bi-weekly payments into monthly payments and vice versa. Basically, his manager gave him a quote to give to me in bi-weekly payments, and the salesman just doubled it to make monthly payments... wrong.

Anyway, it's a complicated, long (and probably quite boring for everyone!) story of what happened, but we came to an agreement last night. The manager didn't even blink when we first came in and said that if we couldn't come to an agreement we would take our deposit back. He said "of course, if we can't come to an agreement I will give you guys your deposit back and we will leave as friends". Great guy. After everything was said in done, we got everything we were promised, and got the price down to $1200 below what other dealerships were offering/what they said was MSRP (including tax and fees).

I was surprised, but everything went a lot better than I would have expected. This was 100% due to the sales manager who really went the extra mile to make sure we were happy. They scrapped the $150 charge for colour (even though they did have to bring it in from another dealer), as well as the tire and rim security package. Allin all, I would still recomend the dealership I went to, only because of the manager!

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm 100% new to the whole car buying experience, and I've definitely learned a lot. When I signed the bill last night for the second time, I made sure that EVERYTHING was on it, down to the floor mats! He seemed reluctant to put the final total price on it, but with some pushing, he did. Anyway, I've learned some lessons, and I'm sure I will never make the mistake of having everything laid out on the table again.