Engine Oil Information ! !! <<< !! [Archive] - Hyundai Elantra Forum

: Engine Oil Information ! !! <<< !!



FordFasteRR
08-15-2005, 10:16 AM
I was doing some research for bike oil ... and I came across some information ..

It seems that most engine oils including and below 10w30 weight have special additives in them called friction modifiers... I found that these friction modifiers help to reduce metal to metal contact better than oils without it.

It also turns out that 99% of most oils that are 10w40 and above DO NOT HAVE IT !! and therefore could possibly increase engine wear... I suppose the only reason to use 10w40 is if the manufacturer of the vehicle specifically says you need to use a heavier weight oil..

ANyway, my point is that for a beta2 elantra engine, i recommend using 10w30 Energy Conserving oil... like this:



http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/P1010010_OIL.JPG

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/P1010011_OIL.JPG

http://www.nitrousworld.com/pictures/P1010012_OIL.JPG


Look on the back of the oil container and find the label that says API on it... If the label says " energy conserving " then that is the type of oil you want to use in your car to reduce friction.

:) OHH YEAH !!

evan938
08-15-2005, 10:21 AM
nice. ill watch for that. is it just that brand or will all of them have it. speaking of oil...this new job is making me not watch my miles...before, it was once a month. i guess i got plans for tomorrow

hyunelan2
08-15-2005, 10:21 AM
Good info Ford.

Slightly off-topic, my wife took the Santa Fe for an oil-change (not at dealer) for 18,000 miles. The guys there said we might want to think about switching to synthetic now that the break-in period is over. I said F' that before my wife finished telling me the story. My guess is they just want us to pay for the more expensive synthetic stuff... but, is there any reason to run synthetic in the 2.7?

FordFasteRR
08-15-2005, 10:47 AM
......... but, is there any reason to run synthetic in the 2.7?


well, synthetic has longer lasting polimers in it vs regular oil.. so the only benefit you will see from the synthetic is that the oil will actually retain more of its viscosity over time ...

for example, if you use regular oil in your car for say.. 4000 miles and over that amount of time, the oil will break down and lets pretend that you tested the viscosity of the oil when it was fresh and then after 4000 miles... most likely the oil will lose 30 % of its viscosity ..

Now, repeat that same test using synthetic oil, and what you get is that you would only lose say ... 20% of the viscosity.. so the synthetics benefit is that it retains its viscosity for a longer period of time vs the regular oil..

now, if that is worth double the price for each oil change then you should go with the synthetic...

I always do 2000 mile oil changes anyway so I don't really worry about the extra loss of viscosity since I don't keep the oil long enough for it to degrade to dangerous levels...

hyunelan2
08-15-2005, 10:59 AM
^^^ Kinda what I though. For warrenty's sake, I need to change the oil every 3000 anyway, so it's just throwing away money for longer-life oil.

FordFasteRR
08-15-2005, 11:06 AM
^^^ Kinda what I though. For warrenty's sake, I need to change the oil every 3000 anyway, so it's just throwing away money for longer-life oil.


My point exactly.

tricked03gls
08-15-2005, 12:54 PM
amsoil is awsome, alot of my buddies run it with there 2.7 sc cars and love it, little to expensive for my taste but a good kick *** oil

Dave666Thomas
08-15-2005, 01:19 PM
I dont get synthetic, I know it last longer but I wouldnt go over 3,000 miles without changing my oil filter and filters dont catch everything thats in the oil anyway.

FordFasteRR
08-15-2005, 01:57 PM
I dont get synthetic, I know it last longer but I wouldnt go over 3,000 miles without changing my oil filter and filters dont catch everything thats in the oil anyway.


This is true. A daily driver that is driven hard in stop and go traffic should get the oil changed AT LEAST by 3000 miles if not sooner regardless of what kind of oil is in the engine. This is mainly because the oil itself is so dirty that it can cause damage to the engine parts. ..

The synthetic oil will continue to have plenty of viscosity left in it even at 3000 hard miles but its just so dirty by that point that its risky to keep using it..

You will hear stories of people who don't change their synthetic oil for 10,000 miles on their cars and claim that they've never had a problem and such...

This may be true however I am personally not willing to risk doing something like that to any of my vehicles...

Kyrol
08-15-2005, 02:53 PM
There is more to oil then even that. If you keep digging there are diffrent modifiers that are good for a bike but not so for a car and truck and heavy and light use. I think there used to be something like 43"keeps ringing the bell in my mind" standards of the same oil or certifications or something like that. I read about page 18 of 50 then got tired and went to bed forgot to bookmark it :(

Soron
08-15-2005, 03:24 PM
First off bike oil does not have friction modifiers for a reason, its for the clutch, it needs the friction to be able to switch gears while automotive oil have friction modifiers to reduce friction for pistons and what not. With friction modifiers a bike wouldent be able to change gears as the clutch would continuosly slip more or less the other damage it would cause.

2. An oil only has the energy conserving label as long as its the most current oil, thus an sj rated oil will be rated energy conserving while all previous oils such as si or above will no longer have it, and if a sk oil comes out, the sk oil will be rated energy conserving while the sj type will no longer have it. An oil can only get a new rating if it can do the same job of the previous oil and more and all ratings are letter based, the farther you down the alphabet the more current the oil.

3. I am wary of using any amsoil product as I heard rumors that they are NOT api certified and this is a bad thing, one of the sources for this rumor is on the tv show "trucks" where stacey david was talking about them. Why its a very bad thing I can not recall but I just made a mental note at the time to avoid all oils that are not api certified.

Finally synthetic oils do A LOT more than just last longer than conventional oils, for instance, they have improved sludge/varnish protection, high temp protection (a must out here in the desert) and faster oil flow at start up. I agree with changing the oil a hell of a lot more often than 10k, I think these people are just abusing their vehicles or just plain morons.

mtlelantra
08-15-2005, 04:33 PM
I was doing some research for bike oil ... and I came across some information ..

It seems that most engine oils including and below 10w30 weight have special additives in them called friction modifiers... I found that these friction modifiers help to reduce metal to metal contact better than oils without it.



I read somewhere that these modifiers are usually soluble organozinc compounds, and work well with iron blocks (like ours) but do nothing to help aluminum engines in protecting metal-metal contact at high revs... but too much zinc fouls catalytic converters...
Since you were originally researching bike oil, here's a link to an article on oil additives for bike oils...
http://www.baileycar.com/oil_additives_html.htm

here's an except about the zinc stuff:
"The latest "miracle ingredient" in oil additives, attempting to usurp PTFE's cure-all throne, is zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, which we will refer to here after as simply "zinc."
Purveyors of the new zinc-related products claim they can prove absolute superiority over the PTFE-related products. Naturally, the PTFE crowd claim exactly the same, in reverse.

Zinc is contained as part of the standard additive package in virtually every major brand of engine oil sold today, varying from a low volume of 0.10 per cent in brands such as Valvoline All Climate and Chevron l5W-50, to a high volume of 0.20 percent in brands such as Valvoline Race and Pennzoil GT Performance.

Organic zinc compounds are used as extreme pressure, anti-wear additives, and are therefore found in larger amounts in oils specifically blended for high-revving, turbocharged or racing applications. The zinc in your oil comes into play only when there is actual metal-to-metal con tact within your engine, which should never occur under normal operating conditions. However, if you race your bike, or occasionally play tag with the redline on the tach, the zinc is your last line of defense. Under extreme conditions, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing, particularly between cylinder bores and piston rings.

However - and this is the important part to remember - available research shows that more zinc does not give you more protection, it merely prolongs the protection if the rate of metal-to-metal contact is abnormally high or extended. So unless you plan on spending a couple of hours dragging your knee at Laguna Seca, adding extra zinc compounds to your oil is usually a waste. Also, keep in mind that high zinc content can lead to deposit formation on your valves, and spark plug fouling.

Among the products we found containing zinc dialkyldithiophosphate were Mechanics Brand Engine Tune Up, K Mart Super Oil Treatment, and STP Engine Treatment With XEP2. The only reason we can easily identify the additives with the new zinc compounds is that they are required to carry a Federally mandated warning label indicating they contain a hazardous substance. The zinc phosphate they contain is a known eye irritant, capable of inflicting severe harm if it comes in contact with your eyes. If you insist on using one of these products, please wear protective goggles and exercise extreme caution.

As we mentioned, organic zinc compounds are already found in virtually every major brand of oil, both automotive and motorcycle. However, in recent years the oil companies voluntarily reduced the amount of zinc content in most of their products after research indicated the zinc was responsible for premature deterioration and damage to catalytic converters. Obviously this situation would not affect 99 percent of all the motorcycles on the road - however, it could have been a factor with the newer BMW converter - equipped bikes.

Since the reduction in zinc content was implemented solely for the protection of catalytic converters, it is possible that some motorcycles might benefit from a slight increase in zinc content in their oils. This has been taken into account by at least one oil company, Spectro, which offers 0.02 to 0.03 percent more zinc compounds in its motorcycle oils than in its automotive oils.

Since Spectro (Golden 4 brand, in this case) is a synthetic blend lubricant designed for extended drain intervals, this increase seems to be wholly justified. Also, available research indicates that Spectro has, in this case, achieved a sensible balance for extended application without increasing the zinc content to the point that it is likely to cause spark plug fouling or present a threat to converter- equipped BMW models.

It would appear that someone at Spectro did their homework." - quoting Fred Rau

Bnystrom
08-15-2005, 05:28 PM
I dont get synthetic, I know it last longer but I wouldnt go over 3,000 miles without changing my oil filter and filters dont catch everything thats in the oil anyway.
The warranty specifies oil changes every 7500 miles and that's for natural oils. Synthetics will last even longer, though the same change interval is required for warranty purposes. Changing oil every 3000 miles is nothing but a waste of money and oil, and perpetuating this myth does nothing but put more money in the pockets of oil companies. If it makes you feel better, fine, but if you think it actually makes a difference to your engine, you're kidding yourself.

southpawboston
08-15-2005, 09:11 PM
The warranty specifies oil changes every 7500 miles and that's for natural oils. Synthetics will last even longer, though the same change interval is required for warranty purposes. Changing oil every 3000 miles is nothing but a waste of money and oil, and perpetuating this myth does nothing but put more money in the pockets of oil companies. If it makes you feel better, fine, but if you think it actually makes a difference to your engine, you're kidding yourself.

i second that. who keeps saying you need to change oil every 3k to retain warranty??!! that's bullsh*t. even the "extreme" driving conditions call for 3700 miles, not 3000.

at any rate, years ago i used to change my oil every 3000 miles, and later switched to about 6000 miles. my engines have not lasted any shorter with the longer change interval. it really is just a waste of money and it just feeds the oil companies.

Mr. Dan
08-15-2005, 10:44 PM
I dunno. I have about 12500KM on my car (2yrs driving) and I've changed my oil at least 4 times already. It goes in translucent and comes out black as tar, and there is a noticeable difference in how the engine runs on fresh oil. I drive my car exceptionally hard, so I'm religious about maintenance. I'm no fan of Bush and his oil cronies, but I'm not going to run my car with dirty oil for any reason.

I do next to no highway driving, it's all fast stop and go city traffic dodging. I see 5th gear maybe once a month. My engine gets worked bloody hard every day. If I can see a difference and feel a difference, then call me crazy, but I think it's worth every won.

FordFasteRR
08-16-2005, 12:07 AM
byn & south...

It's really just up to you to determine what you feel is an adequate oil change interval.

I don't really care what the OEM says the intervals should be, I go by how the oil looks and how the car feels...

Mr. Dan makes a valid point about the way the car feels with dirty oil.. I second that oppinion.

southpawboston
08-16-2005, 07:22 AM
i have never noticed any difference in how the engine "feels" with dirty vs. clean oil. i think it is all psychological...

FordFasteRR
08-16-2005, 08:10 AM
i have never noticed any difference in how the engine "feels" with dirty vs. clean oil. i think it is all psychological...

It very well could be.

But I still don't like the idea of leaving it in there for so long in my car with the way I drive it and all ..

redgum
08-16-2005, 08:59 AM
call me crazy as well then, i too noticed that it runs smoother on new oil. In fact, all the cars i've owned felt better with new oil...

blupupher
08-16-2005, 11:06 AM
Well, the difference I felt between oil with 7400 miles and 0 miles was nothing.
How oil looks is not the way to determine how good the oil is. Oil is designed to get dirty as you use it. The soot and contaminates stay suspended in the oil, not on the engine parts. The only way to really know hif the oil is still good is to do a used oil analysis. This is done by a lab and determines the quality of oil and how much life is left in the oil.


...
3. I am wary of using any amsoil product as I heard rumors that they are NOT api certified and this is a bad thing, one of the sources for this rumor is on the tv show "trucks" where stacey david was talking about them. Why its a very bad thing I can not recall but I just made a mental note at the time to avoid all oils that are not api certified.

I agree with changing the oil a hell of a lot more often than 10k, I think these people are just abusing their vehicles or just plain morons.
Well, I guess I am a moron. I would go 10k between changes, but do not because of warranty. My oil analysis showed the oil had plenty of life left @ 7400 mies and could easily go 10k. Most of my miles are highway, so I am not hard on my engine.
Oils today are much better than 20 yrs ago. Heck, in the 1920's, a car owner had to change their oil every 250-300 miles, so I am sure they would say your a moron also for changing every 3-4000.

Just because an oil is not API certified does not make it bad, it just means they did not want to pay to have the oil tested to get the API stamp.

Soron
08-16-2005, 12:53 PM
Hey im just saying if a guy on a popular mechanics performance trucking show is against the product, he must have a good reason, I can't recall what that reason was anymore but I know that it was a good one. Synthetic oil can last 10k but would you really want to? I know for a fact that as oil ages it becomes acidic eating away at aluminum and other internal engine parts synthetic or dino, these are extreme cases where the oil has just been sitting there for a long time but can be avoided with frequent changes, if you leave your oil in there for 10-25k like some people do, it will pretty much do the same. I bet those people who do leave it in there so long change the filter every 3k and then add oil to "compensate" for the filter change, what this does is regenerate the oil thats in there a little with every change.
250-300 mile oil changes seems outrageos but you must consider their thinking at the time, at 250-300 miles the oil starts to turn black, and to them that ment the oil was going bad, when it probably wasen't.

FordFasteRR
08-16-2005, 01:07 PM
they probly didnt even have oil filters back then either ! LOL

blupupher
08-17-2005, 09:47 AM
...
250-300 mile oil changes seems outrageos but you must consider their thinking at the time, at 250-300 miles the oil starts to turn black, and to them that ment the oil was going bad, when it probably wasen't.

And that is my point. Some now consider 3000 mile oil changes outrageous.
While some may use the oils ability to lubricate and protect the engine by 3000 miles, most do not.
For the 25,000 mile/ 1 yr OCI, Amsoil states this is with an oil analysis done during the interval and a filter change/ top up @ 12.5k miles/6 months.

Soron
08-17-2005, 03:43 PM
You just proved my point, they top up the oil with the filter change (about a quart)and thus regenerated the exisiting oil by replenishing the half way used chemicals in there to make it last longer, otherwise it would start turning acidic.

some quotes from other websites


My understanding is that Amsoil wont do the API for their fully synthetic oils because they frequently use differing vendors or suppliers for their base stocks and they have such a wide range of difference that the API could not certify the oils.. This sounded to me like Amsoil fully synthetic products were not up to the task of API's approval.
API is for oil what UL is for listing appliances for the home. The companies that manufacture oil have to stay within a strict tolerance of manufacture and have a consistant product to meet the criteria of API and receive the API rating or symbol.

Without an API certification it is hard for the everyday consumer to know the product is consistant. Unless you take Amsoil's word for it.
Further, why would Amsoil not certify their so called best product line?
Its kinda like asking me to buy an electrical appliance that is not independantly tested isnt it?

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=32090


Without the fear of being detected via monitoring, the oil company is
free to reformulate on the fly

API certification keeps the consumer from
acting as a beta tester of the oil

http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/rec.autos.tech/messages/511491.html


lets look at how amsoil increases some additives that don't last in an engine just to show how the 4ball wear test out performs competators oils which looks good on the bench but yet after what, 700-1500 miles of normal engine use it's gone. if they don't have an api cert, what keeps them from loading up on zinc/ph as an ep additive causing catylist converters to burn out prematurly



if you believe every thing that amsoil is telling you then you must believe everything that's on tv, so superman really does fly! i really can understand your loyalty to amsoil, and understand i am not saying it isn't good, but facts are facts and if you are putting it in an engine under warr, you will be giving the warr up because of no certification

http://www.noria.com/message_boards/message_details_by_list.asp?foldername=Some+AMSoil +Products+Not+API+Licensed%3F%3F&messagenumber=1+

It seems to me that if amsoil was such a good product that exceeds api certifications for lubrication that it could easily pass api certifications, but the truth is, it can't. You can play craps with your engine when it comes to its oil, I don't have that kinda of cash to gamble so im sticking with an oil that is not being beta tested on the consumer or could be reformulated on the fly.

by the way


This issue bothers me alot since my owners manual states
that I must use an oil that is API Certified

http://www.noria.com/message_boards/message_details_by_list.asp?foldername=Some+AMSoil +Products+Not+API+Licensed%3F%3F&messagenumber=1+

I never received a manual for my car (bought it used) so I have no idea if using amsoil on it would void the warrenty and even if it didn't I still woulden't chance it. Don't get me wrong I very much like synthetics but I am against using amsoil since its not certified like others are. Personally I think the best synthetic out there is royal purple, but I can't afford that so I am using valvoline synpower.

FordFasteRR
08-17-2005, 05:38 PM
wow

very informative. Thanks !

blupupher
08-17-2005, 09:08 PM
Just a FYI, I don't use Amsoil. I use Mobil 1 or German Castrol.

CornbreadXD
08-17-2005, 11:41 PM
I will make sure Amsoil doesn't get into my engine at all

Soron
08-18-2005, 03:17 AM
Sorry of accusing you of it, but I kinda got the impression that you were using amsoil since it seemed like you were defending them so much. I heard mobil 1 is one of the best but what I would like to see is a synthetic vs synthetic comparison to see how name brand synthetics stand up against each other. I keep seeing on the bottles how they are so much better than dino oils (which they are hands down) but they never say anything about what they offer over other synthetic oils. Oh btw for those thinking of redline oil, its even worse as they "water down" their oils I have heard.

blupupher
08-18-2005, 07:43 AM
Soron,
I was just trying to get correct info out there so people could make an informed decision, not one based on hearsay. Amsoil and Redline are good oils. While I don't use them, there is nothing wrong with them (aside from the API rating). Redline is a ester based Group V Synthetic with loads of moly. Amsoil is a Group IV PAO based synthetic, as is Mobil 1. Most all other Synthetic oils are hydrocracked crude oil based Group III oil. Royal Purple has lots of PAO oil in it, but does have a Group 3 carrier oil (although if I remember correctly, their racing oils are 100% PAO, but not API certified).
I actually just drained RP 10w-30 out of my car last week after 6500 miles and sent in an oil analysis.
If you (or anyone) wants to know more about oils, go to www.bobistheoilguy.com and read the forums there.

Soron
08-18-2005, 02:43 PM
Yes I seen the website and read the artical before I started comming to these forums as I was doing research on oil in general and wanted to select the best synthetic out their for my budget and application before I made the switch. I'm just saying don't take unessesary chances with your engine, amsoil and redline may be good oils, but testimoneys are from customers only, not independent labs. If hyundai or any other manufacturer will void the warrenty because its not certified, then thats what I call an unessesary chance especially when there is such a large selection of synthetics out there. btw before I went to that website I was considering quaker state synthetic because of cost but decided to go with good ole valvoline instead, but would much rather have royal purple, but $5-$6 a quart is rather hard to swallow for me, not to mention a little rare around these parts.

blupupher
08-18-2005, 10:56 PM
.... I'm just saying don't take unessesary chances with your engine, amsoil and redline may be good oils, but testimoneys are from customers only, not independent labs. If hyundai or any other manufacturer will void the warrenty because its not certified, then thats what I call an unessesary chance especially when there is such a large selection of synthetics out there. ...
Yes, that is true. But for a vehicle out of warranty where the API rating does not matter, it hurts nothing.

jh0n
08-18-2005, 11:23 PM
Ford, I always used Bel ray products in my bikes, but motul chain lube is AWESOME.

Soron
08-19-2005, 02:59 AM
Good point

Cypher
08-23-2005, 01:38 AM
just to chime in and ask a question here... my car has 64k on it i just turned it over to that yesterday.... do you have to put 4 quarts of synthetic in with an oil change? i was going to start doing 3 quarts regular oil and one quart synthetic??? is that ok...? can you mix them ?

BlackElantraGT
08-23-2005, 02:02 AM
you can mix it but why would you? They sell semi-synthetics for those who can't fully afford synthetic.

I would just go with one or the other.

Cypher
08-23-2005, 12:29 PM
oh... well... then another question... when should you start using synthetic? when you get to higher mileage? or when you just feel like it?

FordFasteRR
08-23-2005, 12:54 PM
oh... well... then another question... when should you start using synthetic? when you get to higher mileage? or when you just feel like it?


oil is oil.

the main differences that the engine will see in regards to wear comes from the oils ability to retain its viscosity.

viscosity is what keeps the oil between metal parts and keeps the metal parts from wearing out as fast... as the oil breaks down and gets dirty from regular driving, the viscosity breaks down as well.

so, as the oil gets older and more miles on it, it will not " lubricate " as well as it did when it was new however...

most oils lose the greatest percentage of their viscosity around the first 800 miles of driving... after that, the loss is very gradual but it is still there...

synthetic oils will retain more if its viscosity over time vs regular oil ... but in your case, your engine has more miles on it..

It is my opinion that the mileage on the engine has no bearing on what type of oil to use, but instead it has more of an effect on what weight of oil I would put into it..

for example....

lets say we have 3 engines, a, b, and c.

Engine a = brand new, already broken in.
Enbine b = 30,000 miles, runs good, burns no oil.
Engine c = 120,000 miles, runs good, burns no oil.


Now, lets see what oil you would use in each engine and explain why ?

Soron
08-23-2005, 02:21 PM
Acutally the more milage an engine has the worse off you are to switch, as an engine ages it developes oil leaks around the seals which are plugged up by dino oils via sludge and other stuff, I had 63k on mine before I switched but I wont be able to tell if its seals are still intact until a few oil changes or so because of the gradual cleaning action of synthetic.



the main differences that the engine will see in regards to wear comes from the oils ability to retain its viscosity.

Synthetic is better because it is engineered to have smaller more uniform molecules and can lubricate better as well as reduce friction better than that of dino. For an example take royal purple,
http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/whyrpa.html
Synthetic is less likely to develop sludge than dino as it is much more resistant to oxidation and has generally a thicker oil bearing film than dino so it protects better and longer especially in high rev conditions.



viscosity is what keeps the oil between metal parts and keeps the metal parts from wearing out as fast... as the oil breaks down and gets dirty from regular driving, the viscosity breaks down as well.

I think you have viscosity confused with something else as the dictionary term of viscosity is "the resistance of a liquid to flowing freely by friction of its own molecules." Basically it means how fast a certain amount liquid can flow from a certain sized opening over a certain amount of time.

actually the term I think you are trying to use is oil film, which is what is actually keeps the metal parts separate from each other and protects/lubricates engine parts. I do agree that the oil loses its viscosity over time but no where near enough to change its viscosity grade before the oil manufacturers oci. The antiwear additives in oils is what actually protects an engine and synthetics generally have both more of them and of higher quality.http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/states%20of%20lubrication.html

blupupher
08-23-2005, 02:27 PM
oil is oil.

...It is my opinion that the mileage on the engine has no bearing on what type of oil to use, but instead it has more of an effect on what weight of oil I would put into it..

for example....

lets say we have 3 engines, a, b, and c.

Engine a = brand new, already broken in.
Enbine b = 30,000 miles, runs good, burns no oil.
Engine c = 120,000 miles, runs good, burns no oil.


Now, lets see what oil you would use in each engine and explain why ?
xW-30 synthetic in all engines since none of them are using any oil. If they are, maybe a xW-40 to thicken it up a bit.

Cypher, yes, you can mix regular and syn like that. As for why BlackElantraGT, blends sold OTC have 15-20% synthetic in them. If you do it yourself, you can control the % of syn.

Soron
08-23-2005, 02:44 PM
I was wondering why you would want to blend them yourself when otc semi blends already exist, another good point. I only used a semi-blend otc to get my engine "ready" for full syn earlier.



Originally Posted by FordFasteRR
oil is oil.

...It is my opinion that the mileage on the engine has no bearing on what type of oil to use, but instead it has more of an effect on what weight of oil I would put into it..

for example....

lets say we have 3 engines, a, b, and c.

Engine a = brand new, already broken in.
Enbine b = 30,000 miles, runs good, burns no oil.
Engine c = 120,000 miles, runs good, burns no oil.


Now, lets see what oil you would use in each engine and explain why ?


Engine A:
full synthetic, royal purple hands down. Reason is that the earlier we put a synthetic in, the longer the engine will last and "look new" on the inside.

Engine B:
semi synthetic to start, if there are no leaks after 2-3 semi-syn oil changes go to full synthetic, mobil 1 top choice otherwise any synthetic will do.

Engine C:
Too far gone to use full synthetic, good chance that oil leaks might have developed using conventional oil all that time. Still could benefit from semi-synthetic oil at the very least. The conventional oil in the semi-syn would keep the leaks plugged while it would benefit from the full syn part of the semi-syn from better anti-wear, faster oil flow and better deposit control.

Cypher
08-24-2005, 12:01 AM
i didn't know that they made semi-synthetic... heh... my bad.... so since i'm getting more mileage would that mean its good to start using semi?

Soron
08-24-2005, 04:03 AM
Semi is better as you get the best of both worlds, its better than conventional but lets you have some of the advantages of full synthetic without the risk. If it can run on semi-synthetic for a little while without any leaks (as the full synthetic part in the semi cleans out the gunk slowly, i.e. 2-3 oil changes) then there is a good chance you can switch to full sythetic no problem. On the other hand, its also great for people who don't want to go or are ready for full synth but want something better than conventional oil. I do the oil changes on my parents vehicles and I run semi synthetic on those, but full synthetic on my elantra, its my baby!

Cypher
08-24-2005, 12:12 PM
sooo... run semi and if i don't find any leaks after a couple changes then i can go to full?

GodisintheTV
08-24-2005, 12:18 PM
sorry for off topic but would it be bad to change the oil at 20,000 to mobil1 from regular oil cause thats what i am doing? will something go.....wrong?

Soron
08-24-2005, 02:07 PM
Cypher
generally yes, the full synthetic part in the semi synthetic will seek out any possible leaks, if there is one, it will will still leak but no where near as much as if you had used an engine oil flush or went strait to full synthetic, just switch back to dino/conventional oil and the leak is replugged if you find one.

GodisintheTV
no problems what so ever, go full synthetic to your hearts content. It generally starts getting iffy to change over around 30k+, and pretty much a good risk at 100k. Rule of thumb is, the more milage an engine has the more chance of leaks developing, but even then, only 10% or so of people switching over have the problem. At 20k everything is should still be sealed up.

GodisintheTV
08-24-2005, 02:09 PM
Cypher
generally yes, the full synthetic part in the semi synthetic will seek out any possible leaks, if there is one, it will will still leak but no where near as much as if you had used an engine oil flush or went strait to full synthetic, just switch back to dino/conventional oil and the leak is replugged if you find one.

GodisintheTV
no problems what so ever, go full synthetic to your hearts content. It generally starts getting iffy to change over around 30k+, and pretty much a good risk at 100k. Rule of thumb is, the more milage an engine has the more chance of leaks developing, but even then, only 10% or so of people switching over have the problem. At 20k everything is should still be sealed up.

thank you sir

FordFasteRR
08-24-2005, 04:19 PM
also... if you do get a leak... where would it be ?

The beta2 motor only has a few plugs on the block and a very simplistic oil pan seal that can be EASILY fixed if it leaked.

????

Soron
08-24-2005, 07:25 PM
it normally leaks whereever there is a seal that the oil can get to, head gaskets and oil pans are the most common.