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Discussion Starter #1
I am getting ready to start my turbocharger project on my 2004 Elantra GT, but I was wondering if you guys could help me decide on a couple of things. First off the turbo exhaust manifold, I was planning on getting the one from KSPEC, looks like this:

And here is the link to it: http://www.kspec.com/list.php?ac_id=85&ai_id=629
But now I heard from someone that it doesn't fit the US cars or something? I don't know, I meen I can see how something like an intake manifold might need modified, but a turbo manifold is a pretty streight forward part, I can't imagine that it would not fit. But which ones do you guys recommend that I get, or which ones have people used and have a successfull project? My main concern is having it not fit (e.g. fordfasters problem).
I was planning on having a wastegate, and then hook that up to a turbo without an internal wastegate on it, but now my concerns are these: 1. Seems that the wastegate can't go low enough increments for my purpose. 2. Seems that most turbos on e-bay come with an internal wastegate on them, can you hook up a external wastegate to a turbo with an internal wastegate? 3. Should I just get a turbo manifold without a wastegate, and stick to a turbo with an internal one? - and if I do this, I don't want to run into having the turbo not fit because of the internal wastegate being in the way of something.

My next question is exactly what kind of turbo I should get. I am planning on putting around 5 psi through the turbo system, no more than 6. My plan was to get a T3 turbo with around .50 trim, and one that was off of e-bay. What do you guys think would be a good one to get? I would consider buying a new one if its around 350, but still would rather get a used one to save cost.

My next question is about fuel... I am either going to get an FMU, and hook it up to one of the vacume lines comming off the intake manifold, or get sonata injectors, and a used SAFC II. Which do you guys recommend I do? With the FMU, I was going to pick the 12:1, but how do I know if I would need like a 10:1 instead? Also, is there a fuel pressure regulator that after I increase the fuel pressure with the FMU its going to regulate it back down to whatever it used to be? Now the SAFC II seems like in the end it would work better, but I don't want to have to take my car to the dyno numerous times to get it tuned etc. and I hear its very hard to tune it. So I don't know just wanted to see if I could get some input from you guys.

About the blow off valve, since its a MAF sensor, I may just use an atmospheric blow off valve, or a recirculating blow off valve. I am fairly certain that its not going to make much of a difference if I have it recirculating or not because I am only running like 5 psi through the system, the engine bog would be minimul, and only for a split second, probably wouldn't even notice it.

My last 2 questions are, where is the temperature of the air taken at on a 2004 MAF sensored elantra, and what temperature does the air need to be to ignite the fuel and cause detonation? Thanks again, sorry its a long post, but I will keep everyone updated how everything turns out, there was just a few areas that was a little unclear to me as to what I should do. :D
 

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Have you read any books about the subject?? Books like Maximum Boost and FI performance tuning talk alot about the questions you have and options. They give you a lot of insite to help you pick the setup thas right for you. We can give opinions. For your boost, the T3 50 or Super 60 will be fine. Most low boost turbos come with wastegates so you might have to do some looking around. If you get that manifold, then you really need an external wastegate and dont get one on the turbo. On the other hand, the SS autochrome aint pretty, but it works and it has a t3 flange on it already. The temp of the air is usually taken at the manifold i believe...
 

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i think it was the intake manifold that didn't fit properly, not the turbo manifold.....but...i have herd a lot of things about the CVVT motor being hard to turbo charge. goodluck!!!!
 

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WOW tons of questions, here goes.

1- Spin wheel products are very nice, some of the nicest work from the pics I have seen. I have had the oportunity to talk with the owner and I would feel very comfortable buying their products. The only place that I know of where you can purchase them online is from Kspec so your good to go with them.

2- I believe your goal was for around 200 WHP or there abouts. You don't necessarily need an externally gated turbo to acheive those numbers. So you have to decide if you want that manifold or go with an alternate. However like Elantra2.001 mentions the choice of turbo and wastegate is subject to ALOT of debate.
You might want to give Tim at speedfactor.com a holla for both manifold and turbo items.

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1. Seems that the wastegate can't go low enough increments for my purpose
Don't quite know what you mean by this?

4-
Seems that most turbos on e-bay come with an internal wastegate on them, can you hook up a external wastegate to a turbo with an internal wastegate?
i. Internal gates CAN be removed
ii. No

5-
Should I just get a turbo manifold without a wastegate, and stick to a turbo with an internal one? - and if I do this, I don't want to run into having the turbo not fit because of the internal wastegate being in the way of something.
i. see points 1-2
ii. I have seen a few people run with internal gates, that doesn't mean that modification won;t be needed though. Afterall you are modifying your car substaintially anyway so that shouldn't scare you. Just be prepared for anything. There is NO such thing as a complete BOLT ON KIT!!

6- Fuel. This has been disscussed in great length on here in the archive. Chek it out thoroughly.

7-
About the blow off valve, since its a MAF sensor, I may just use an atmospheric blow off valve, or a recirculating blow off valve. I am fairly certain that its not going to make much of a difference if I have it recirculating or not because I am only running like 5 psi through the system, the engine bog would be minimul, and only for a split second, probably wouldn't even notice it.
Save yourself any headaches and get a recirculating valve. AND/OR go with an SMT-6 unit and convert to MAP based system (I would recommend this over the Apexi units also) Check it out
Bog is not the issue really, your MAF will throw things off if it doesn't read things correctly.

8-
My last 2 questions are, where is the temperature of the air taken at on a 2004 MAF sensored elantra, and what temperature does the air need to be to ignite the fuel and cause detonation?
Its taken at the throttle body, why you need to know this is a little beyond me though. Get an intercooler and you won't need to worry about this (so much anyway).

My questions and some things to think about, how are you going to prevent detonation without lowering compression and not have an intercooler ;)
You need some way of jacking the fuel pressure if your going to go with larger injectors.
I'm unsure of the CVVT needing to be disabled for turbo apps, for minimal boost I wouldnt think you would need to though (a little beyond me, sorry)
 

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To remove an internal gate, you basically weld shut the entrance for the gas bypass and remove the moving parts of the arm and valve, and possible cut off the extra material containing the wastegate, but why bother. Just get a turbo that suits your apllication. Otherwise i defer to my esteemed collegue in matters of boost, beer, women and crime, Mr. Carbonman.
 

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I think it was over at NT.com that there was talk of a kit being available fot the CVVT engines in the next couple months. Let me see if I can find that again.


Found it, scroll about half way down for the post from 4doorGL

Cvvt Turbo

Ok try 3/4 the way down the page.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks a lot for answering all of my questions! About the waste gate how I said I wouldn't be able to set it in small enough increments is that the wastegate I heard from kspec can only be set down to like .4 or .3 bar, so absolutely the minimum amount of boost I can put through it would be like 4.2 psi. I had wanted to start out at like 1-2, drive it around for a while making sure the system is working etc. then turn it up to like 2-3, then do the same, then finally get it up to 5-6 and leave it.

I also heard about people talking about boost creeping or something like that if I use an internal wastegate, should I worry about this? Its when the boost pressure starts creeping up higher and higher than what you have it set at I believe? Thanks again for the help.
 

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Well boost creep is leakage, how's yer prostate? eww lol
With that minimal pressure minimal flow (relating to flow which is the cause of creep, ie. trying to flow more exhaust throw the gate than can physically get through it) you will probably NEVER have to worry about creep.
You'll probly never find a Turbo with internal gate setting that low especially on ebay, you'll need to get in touch with Turbonetics or another manufacturer to find out if they can supply you with that spring setting (although its kinda pointless IMO) Similarly the external varieties' manufacturers would be more likely to give you answers to this prob.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
What is the web address of speedfactor btw? I can't find it...

So basically what you recommend I do is this... Get an un-wastegated turbo manifold, and a internally wastegated turbo, but order a special spring so I can tune the turbo low enough. Also get a SMT-6 unit and a turbo MAP sensor to convert my car to a MAP sensored car, and then use an atmospheric blow off valve with this. And as far as fuel goes, if I want larger injectors, I would need a larger fuel pump, and also an SAFC or similar piggy back computer to take care of all the fuel problems. Or I could replace the fuel rail and convert the car to a return fuel system and then use a 12:1 RRFPR with it?

Dang I wish I could keep it more simpler and make it work without converting from a MAF sensor to a MAP, and without converting from a returnless fuel system to a return fuel system. Should I just not even worry about incrementing the psi up a little at a time and just set it to what I was planning on? (5-6 psi) Thanks again for all the help! :D

Sorry edit again. So what is the deal with the compression ratios? Do you know any sources where I could get information on it? When you refer to lowering the compression ratio, are you refering to for example going from 10:1, down to 8:1? Compression ratio means how much the pistons compress the air/fuel mixture before it ignites it right? So like lets just say that the piston open all the way there is 10 inches between the bottom of the piston and the floor, and when the piston is all the way in its down position there is only 1 inch between the bottom of the piston and the floor, then this would be 10:1, is this what compression ratio meens? What are the effects of lowering or raising it when a turbo system is concerned, and how do you lower or raise it? Lol when I go back and re-read what I just typed...man I have a lot of questions, sorry about that. :rolleyes:

One of my friends told me that for a returnless fuel system all I need to do is increase injector size and put in an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and thats all for the fuel. Is this right, or does he not know what he is talking about?
 

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You're friend does not know what he is talking about. What he recommended will work on return style not returnless. Also if you plan on using the SMT-6 you won't need a SAFC the SMT-6 does what the SAFC does and more. I also wouldn't bother adding the boost 1-2 psi at a time. If you're going for a low boost setup ei less than 9-10psi there would be no problems going from N/A to 8psi in one step.
 

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I'm unsure of the CVVT needing to be disabled for turbo apps, for minimal boost I wouldnt think you would need to though (a little beyond me, sorry)
In korea you used to have to disable the CVVT and now Tigerlilly has made a new cam shaft for that so you should get that :)

but get maximum boost, get some schooling :D
 

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I'm going to go against the grain here, don't even worry about the CVVT dissassembly. Untill I see proof of this being a requirement I says BS ;)

Spike, why don't you give him some info he can actually use, saying "get them from Tigerlilly" is like saying go get a Slurpee from the 7-11 on Everest. :) lol
 

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Well KSPEC carries Tigerlilly and I talked with David online about this he is the source of most of my turbo talk from Seoul.

And my other friend John is a programmer for a turbo company here in Seoul as well he confirmed the CVVT camshafts that Tigerlilly has developed to work with the CVVT.

But before shops just found a way to disable it, its not a VTEC (honda BS) it is not there for HP, it was installed for emissions :)

So just contact KSPEC, and ask him to contact tigerlilly, I doubt anyone here besides me can read Hongul.
 
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