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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I know a lot of people are going to have their own opinion on if this is possible. I don't have a dyno, nor do I *have* a 160 hp elantra, but I think that this setup would get their, if not knock at the door loudly!

What are your thoughts on the following?

2001 Elantra GLS 5spd

Engine:
Adjustable Intake and Camshaft pulleys : 150$
New Timing Belt: 40$
Accord Intake : 50$
BBTB: Free (with rotozip see old EXD for pics)
Ported Intake Manifold: 150 - 200? I think (Carbon?)
4-1 Header: 100$ Shipped
Downpipe Reweld, Manifold touch up, reweld of collector, smooth collector 50$
Custom mandrel bent 2.25in no cat exaust with highflow muffler 450$
REAL tuned E.C.U. 900-?
Dyno Time: ?????????? so much money :(

Suspension:
Lightweight 15" wheels : 1000$
Good tires : 500$
Coilovers : 1000

Transmission:

Racing clutch fluid: 10$
Carbon clutch with Lightened flywheel: 800$ from sr
short throw shifter: 150$
Weight Reduction:

Front two seats replaced with two lightweight racing seats with 4 point harnessess : 500$ 20 lbs 10 x 2 with airbags the seats are heavy
All trunk completely gutted : free 15lbs from jack, spare tire, carpet, foam
Misc. Interior gutted (ducts under the seat, sound deadening mat.) free 4 - 7 lbs
lightweight wheels: 20lbs if wheels are 11 - 12 lbs

more to come when i think of it

shawn :)
 

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you can get shifter for less than $150 and get stage 3 clutch with flywheel for about $700 shipped.
but everything else sounds pretty good to me. and I hope you will get your 160whp! or you could just save tons of money and get a turbo and have 200-210whp!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
hmm

OD I have thought about this alot between the turbo and the n/a.

I love turbo! don't get me wrong, I love turbo!

The thought of spending 3,000 - 4,000 dollars for a true turbo application, then to still upgrade the suspension, weight....

I already have the header, exhaust, seat, trunk, misc weight... i just need to get better wheels and suspension, then upper engine parts....

O yeah, High Compression Pistons, New Rings, Port and Polish, Head and Valve Job. - 1500...

So, my car is done for a loooong time with no more moving parts then when i started...

shawn :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
very happy indeed
but I would love to get to 160 + N/A, then work my way up.

Shawn :)
 

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19 second madman
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I think to make a solid 160whp na, it will come out to be nearly as much as turbo. if you do it right though, you may come up with more hp. (more than 160, not more than with a turbo). going turbo would also allow a level of streetability that NA wouldnt be able to.
cams: $700
head work: $1600 (includes new valve springs and retainers)
well designed exhaust manifold: $600
REAL ecu: $400 rev limiter raised to about 7700 rpm, allowing for a 7500rpm redline
piggyback fuel controller: $300
ignition system: $300 (probably not necessary)
intake manifold re-work (OR re-design): $700
cam timing adjuster: $200
pistons: $700 (with overbore)
rods: $700
maybe need an adjustment in R/S ratio to help with bearing life
internal balancing: $250?
clutch and flywheel: $700
longblock assembly: $500
 

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Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is no way to get 35 to 40 hp with a BETA I or II engine NA.We are talking about a "drivable" and some what legal car, right? Even with forced induction you'll be lucky to get 160 whp. There is no chip out there that will allow you to take advantage of all the intake, exhaust and head work you are talking about. I mean a full control chip not the junk "tell me what you got and I'll program it" crap. You will need to do the all that work, get time on a dyno and have a fully programmable chip to get maybe 20% hp increase (cross your fingers at that too!!!) :headshake
 

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scared like cheese
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silet said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is no way to get 35 to 40 hp with a BETA I or II engine NA.We are talking about a "drivable" and some what legal car, right? Even with forced induction you'll be lucky to get 160 whp. There is no chip out there that will allow you to take advantage of all the intake, exhaust and head work you are talking about. I mean a full control chip not the junk "tell me what you got and I'll program it" crap. You will need to do the all that work, get time on a dyno and have a fully programmable chip to get maybe 20% hp increase (cross your fingers at that too!!!) :headshake
Please let me know who your drug dealer is because I really want some of that crack you're smokin'. No one has been able to prove one way or the other if 160whp is possible N/A. A few people have gotten to about 130ish and givin up before getting into the head or changing to high comp pistons or cams. No one here has done a head job or cams and dynoed afterwards and no one has used a fuel tuner or stand alone to it's fullest on a N/A car. I think Ford is the only one that is messing with the fuel on a N/A car right now and he is not using a wideband O2 sensor or tuning on a dyno. I think it is possible to see 160whp if they can get 225whp out of the beta in N/A in Korea. Also 160whp is no problem at all for forced induction. There is a 03 Tib at about 240whp with the Alpine setup and the sky is the limit for hp if you are doing a custom turbo setup. By years end there will be a couple XD putting down 250+ hp on turbo set ups.
 

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19 second madman
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Im really a bit astonished that you feel that 35-40 extra horsepower is some unattainable god. Im almost certain that if a 2 liter honda motor can do it in stock form, then there is no reason why a 2 liter hyundai motor cant do it (obviously with a great deal of work). and what chips are you talking about? my thoughts for 160whp are not based on pre-tuned chips, etc. do you know what those "chips" do? they alter fuel and ignition timing. I included the devices necessary to tune fuel and advance ignition timing, though I didnt include tuning ($300 for 2 hours on the dyno) or some other relatively small things.
and lol, "lucky to get 160whp with forced induction" hrmm.... here's a thought on that. if you run 8 pounds of boost, you are pumping roughly 54% more air into your engine so with that in mind, lets say that you're able to make 40% more power (accounting for losses of various types). that puts you at 168whp....
as opposed to flat out calling you an idiot, I will encourage you to research on the subject, since you seem to be under the impression that there is no way to increase the VE of an engine.

and ford, despite the fact that I'd love to have a NA screamer beta, i'd rather have a great daily driver, so i wont be following the above mentioned method. my point in posting all of that was to say that I dont think its going to be anywhere close to practical to make 160whp na out of a beta.
there are some B18b guys on honda forums pushing 170whp, so that may be the practical limit without better head design.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
yeah

thanks 2gts...

Ok, simply put guys. The betaII might not respond to NA BOLT ON mods to gain HP, but I am not talking about bolting on parts and expecting my car to beat a ferrari...

I am talking about a complete rebuild of the motor, from crank to valve, oversizing and cleanin everything, so in essence this is no longer a betaII!

I am 99.9% sure that I can get at least 160 to the wheels.

and if you look at the first post, I stated dyno time was the major cost!

shawn
 

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2GTS said:
Please let me know who your drug dealer is because I really want some of that crack you're smokin'. No one has been able to prove one way or the other if 160whp is possible N/A. A few people have gotten to about 130ish and givin up before getting into the head or changing to high comp pistons or cams. No one here has done a head job or cams and dynoed afterwards and no one has used a fuel tuner or stand alone to it's fullest on a N/A car.
Sorry man, never did and never will do drugs... and the rest of your response is my point. I has not been done yet and I won't hold my breath on somebody doing it by the end of the year, with aftermarket support. CARB products for other makes have made 210 to 220 hp at wheels with 1.8L engines and have quite a few examples trough out the US. We can not say the same, but that's what I want. 160 whp NA without having to rip everything out for a state inspection.
 

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sed said:
yeah

thanks 2gts...

Ok, simply put guys. The betaII might not respond to NA BOLT ON mods to gain HP, but I am not talking about bolting on parts and expecting my car to beat a ferrari...

I am talking about a complete rebuild of the motor, from crank to valve, oversizing and cleanin everything, so in essence this is no longer a betaII!

I am 99.9% sure that I can get at least 160 to the wheels.

and if you look at the first post, I stated dyno time was the major cost!

shawn
Very few people have accomplished this without tuning at a dyno. In fact most find out they lost power and needed to make adjustments on multiple dyno runs.
 

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scared like cheese
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silet said:
Sorry man, never did and never will do drugs... and the rest of your response is my point. I has not been done yet and I won't hold my breath on somebody doing it by the end of the year, with aftermarket support. CARB products for other makes have made 210 to 220 hp at wheels with 1.8L engines and have quite a few examples trough out the US. We can not say the same, but that's what I want. 160 whp NA without having to rip everything out for a state inspection.
Has not been done and can not be done are two completly different things. I'd be one of the first to do cams safc and some head work if I didn't have to pay for a wedding real soon. I really don't get what you're trying to say here other than you don't want to be the first to try to accomplish 160whp and you want someone to do all the hard work for you. Give me time and I will show you a 160whp N/A XD but I'd guess someone else will get there before I do.
 

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tharptroy said:
Im really a bit astonished that you feel that 35-40 extra horsepower is some unattainable god. Im almost certain that if a 2 liter honda motor can do it in stock form, then there is no reason why a 2 liter hyundai motor cant do it (obviously with a great deal of work). and what chips are you talking about? my thoughts for 160whp are not based on pre-tuned chips, etc. do you know what those "chips" do? they alter fuel and ignition timing. I included the devices necessary to tune fuel and advance ignition timing, though I didnt include tuning ($300 for 2 hours on the dyno) or some other relatively small things.
and lol, "lucky to get 160whp with forced induction" hrmm.... here's a thought on that. if you run 8 pounds of boost, you are pumping roughly 54% more air into your engine so with that in mind, lets say that you're able to make 40% more power (accounting for losses of various types). that puts you at 168whp....
as opposed to flat out calling you an idiot, I will encourage you to research on the subject, since you seem to be under the impression that there is no way to increase the VE of an engine.

and ford, despite the fact that I'd love to have a NA screamer beta, i'd rather have a great daily driver, so i wont be following the above mentioned method. my point in posting all of that was to say that I dont think its going to be anywhere close to practical to make 160whp na out of a beta.
there are some B18b guys on honda forums pushing 170whp, so that may be the practical limit without better head design.
Please call me a idiot, but only when you increase the volumetric effeciency on BETA II... and then tell me how did it.. so I can did it too ;)


BTW I am trying to get my hands on wife's Integra, but she won't let meeee... :mad:
 
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